Bookmaker Not Acting Responsibly?

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 12:15am #1

Hey guys

Long story short, I like a flutter a little bit more than the next man. I do online gambling and recently I’ve really been trying to cut down on my potential losses by setting deposit limits on any bookie I am with - I probably have 4 - 5 accounts I switch between periodically depending on odds and offers, but on all of these I have a daily limit set to €10 per week/day depending on which one. So there’s no danger of me ever going off the rails and dropping €100 on a Ecuador 2nd division game or something stupid.

Anyway, I’ve had my limits set for a while and it gives me great peace of mind to know I’ll never really gamble more than a tenner a day, unless I start switching between account which I rarely do.

Anyway, for one of these bookies who i won’t name yet, I got an email stating they were rewriting their terms and conditions and something about all deposit limits being reset and no longer being in effect and had to be manually reset, I didn’t really pay much attention at the time as I have never really use this particular site.

So.. the weekend just gone I had a jar or 2 too many and happened to start using this site again and racked up losses way worse than the limits I had set.

Obviously I’m the one to blame, I gambled beyond my limits and ultimately it’s my fault.

But.. does anybody think the bookmaker isn’t exactly fulfilling their responsibly gambling duty of care by just canceling my deposit limit I had set? And letting a customer who had tried to control themselves gamble to their hearts content immediately?

Of course I could have set it again immediately, but I still think this may have been a bit underhanded.

Do I have grounds to complain?

weldoninhio · 06-12-2017 12:19am

Rosstopher wrote: »

Hey guys

Long story short, I like a flutter a little bit more than the next man. I do online gambling and recently I’ve really been trying to cut down on my potential losses by setting deposit limits on any bookie I am with - I probably have 4 - 5 accounts I switch between periodically depending on odds and offers, but on all of these I have a daily limit set to €10 per week/day depending on which one. So there’s no danger of me ever going off the rails and dropping €100 on a Ecuador 2nd division game or something stupid.

Anyway, I’ve had my limits set for a while and it gives me great peace of mind to know I’ll never really gamble more than a tenner a day, unless I start switching between account which I rarely do.

Anyway, for one of these bookies who i won’t name yet, I got an email stating they were rewriting their terms and conditions and something about all deposit limits being reset and no longer being in effect and had to be manually reset, I didn’t really pay much attention at the time as I have never really use this particular site.

So.. the weekend just gone I had a jar or 2 too many and happened to start using this site again and racked up losses way worse than the limits I had set.

Obviously I’m the one to blame, I gambled beyond my limits and ultimately it’s my fault.

But.. does anybody think the bookmaker isn’t exactly fulfilling their responsibly gambling duty of care by just canceling my deposit limit I had set? And letting a customer who had tried to control themselves gamble to their hearts content immediately?

Of course I could have set it again immediately, but I still think this may have been a bit underhanded.

Do I have grounds to complain?

Complain about what?

They updated their system which reset their limits, sent you an email letting you know this, which you ignored, then went on a spree and lost.

If you were up a few grand would you be trying to return anything you won above and beyond your limit??

punisher5112 · 06-12-2017 12:21am

You can complain but you really need to consider cutting back. Having 5 accounts isn't healthy.

If you are ever planning on getting a mortgage I would suggest cancellation of all online accounts.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 12:40am

weldoninhio wrote: »

Complain about what?

They updated their system which reset their limits, sent you an email letting you know this, which you ignored, then went on a spree and lost.

If you were up a few grand would you be trying to return anything you won above and beyond your limit??

I do appreciate the feedback. But are you aware of the purpose of setting such limits?

Whether I ignored the email or not is irrelevant. They gave me, someone who set a limit to prevent excessive gambling, a license to bet as much as I wanted immediately.

I know I went mad and lost control, but the limits I set were to prevent this. Surely all this responsible gambling legislation and stuff is nonsense if they can drop your guard for you at any time.

And don’t patronise me with your last paragraph, please.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 12:42am

punisher5112 wrote: »

You can complain but you really need to consider cutting back. Having 5 accounts isn't healthy.

If you are ever planning on getting a mortgage I would suggest cancellation of all online accounts.

It’s definitely not healthy to even have one account in my book. But even with the 5 account and the limits I set I was comfortable with this. For example if I had one account it would probably be a 30-50 euro limit. Instead I have it split across the few.

listermint · 06-12-2017 12:45am

Cut down the accounts.

End of story

Owryan · 06-12-2017 12:47am

Rosstopher wrote: »

I do appreciate the feedback. But are you aware of the purpose of setting such limits?

Whether I ignored the email or not is irrelevant. They gave me, someone who set a limit to prevent excessive gambling, a license to bet as much as I wanted immediately.

I know I went mad and lost control, but the limits I set were to prevent this. Surely all this responsible gambling legislation and stuff is nonsense if they can drop your guard for you at any time.

And don’t patronise me with your last paragraph, please.

The limits were set by you not them, therefore is it not your responsibility to reset them. They emailed you so its not as if you didnt know the limits were gone.

the_syco · 06-12-2017 12:54am

Rosstopher wrote: »

I probably have 4 - 5 accounts

Rosstopher wrote: »

So.. the weekend just gone I had a jar or 2 too many and happened to start using this site again and racked up losses way worse than the limits I had set.

Even if they had stopped you, you would have probably just created more accounts to bypass their safeguards.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 7:59am

the_syco wrote: »

Even if they had stopped you, you would have probably just created more accounts to bypass their safeguards.

Well no, as I haven’t set up any accounts to bypass this in years.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 8:00am

listermint wrote: »

Cut down the accounts.

End of story

Not end of story, the amount of accounts is not the issue at all. I know my limits and I have it set broadly across all as sometimes some bookies have better odds and specials than others. Thanks though.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 8:01am

No offense but this obviously wasn’t the right place to come. Lots of self righteous people who don’t know much about responsible gambling legislation.

Mods you can close this thread if you want. No need for anymore pointless answers.

ANXIOUS · 06-12-2017 8:56am

Rosstopher wrote: »

No offense but this obviously wasn’t the right place to come. Lots of self righteous people who don’t know much about responsible gambling legislation.

Mods you can close this thread if you want. No need for anymore pointless answers.

Can you point me towards any responsible gambling legislation?

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 8:58am

Owryan wrote: »

The limits were set by you not them, therefore is it not your responsibility to reset them. They emailed you so its not as if you didnt know the limits were gone.

Ah now that is the epitome of uninformed. Why speak on a subject you have no clue on? Really like...

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:02am

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Can you point me towards any responsible gambling legislation?

Legislation may be the wrong word. But these companies run under the watchful eye of IBAS, GamReg etc, I know they are in the UK. They have responsibilities bestowed upon them to protect vulnerable customers.

The reason I asked on here was to see if anybody had more information than me on the matter. Seems not.

Owryan · 06-12-2017 9:05am

Rosstopher wrote: »

Ah now that is the epitome of uninformed. Why speak on a subject you have no clue on? Really like...

Just summing up what you told us.

Wah wah wah, i got pissed and gambled away more money than i should have but it's not my fault, the big bad gambling man put a gun to my head and made me.

ANXIOUS · 06-12-2017 9:08am

Rosstopher wrote: »

Legislation may be the wrong word. But these companies run under the watchful eye of IBAS, GamReg etc, I know they are in the UK. They have responsibilities bestowed upon them to protect vulnerable customers.

The reason I asked on here was to see if anybody had more information than me on the matter. Seems not.

Complain if you want, they may as a gesture of goodwill give you something back and ban you forever. I doubt it but if you feel aggrieved you've nothing to lose..

You probably already know this yourself but you need to look at the bigger picture which is your gambling.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:10am

For people that fail to get the issue at all, here’s a little analogy...

Tommy runs a bar and John is a regular customer, John comes in every Saturday for a few pints. John tells Tom one day to only ever to let him have 2 pints in a week and no more unless he gets clearance medically that he’s allowed to have more. Tommy tells John just to write it down for him so they have the agreement on paper.

6 months later Tommy tells John one day that he’s just got a new license so that their agreement isn’t in place anymore and that they must write up a new agreement, and that John can drink to his hearts content that day unless he tells Tommy not to allow him again. John, not thinking straight, drinks 10 pints that day and ends up sick.

Now..Tommy didn’t force the drinks down Johns neck.. but doesn’t he have some duty of care?

ANXIOUS · 06-12-2017 9:15am

Rosstopher wrote: »

For people that fail to get the issue at all, here’s a little analogy...

Tommy runs a bar and John is a regular customer, John comes in every Saturday for a few pints. John tells Tom one day to only ever to let him have 2 pints in a week and no more unless he gets clearance medically that he’s allowed to have more. Tommy tells John just to write it down for him so they have the agreement on paper.

6 months later Tommy tells John one day that he’s just got a new license so that their agreement isn’t in place anymore and that they must write up a new agreement, and that John can drink to his hearts content that day unless he tells Tommy not to allow him again. John, not thinking straight, drinks 10 pints that day and ends up sick.

Now..Tommy didn’t force the drinks down Johns neck.. but doesn’t he have some duty of care?

No that's not it, Tommy sent him a message when sober and said changing our license if you still want that agreement just click this button. John decides not to because he thinks he can control his drinking.

A few weeks later John is out and has two pints in Tommy's rival pub. Tommy's rival pub cuts John off after two pints and then John remembers he can have as much as he wants in Tommy's so goes there and drinks the head of himself.

Are you or your gambling habits in anyway to blame?

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:17am

ANXIOUS wrote: »

Complain if you want, they may as a gesture of goodwill give you something back and ban you forever. I doubt it but if you feel aggrieved you've nothing to lose..

You probably already know this yourself but you need to look at the bigger picture which is your gambling.

Thanks mate, I might write to them just to see.

And yeah there is an issue there. But to be honest I’ve been quite content under my limits for quite a while now. I know I should have more self-control, but those options should also be there for a reason. I don’t see why they couldn’t just re-use the same limits on all accounts. Giving someone that had limited themselves instant access to unlimited gambling surely isn’t responsible...

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:19am

ANXIOUS wrote: »

No that's not it, Tommy sent him a message when sober and said changing our license if you still want that agreement just click this button. John decides not to because he thinks he can control his drinking.

In other words.. come here right now for unlimited drinking despite what you previously agreed?

No?

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:21am

ANXIOUS wrote: »

No that's not it, Tommy sent him a message when sober and said changing our license if you still want that agreement just click this button. John decides not to because he thinks he can control his drinking.

A few weeks later John is out and has two pints in Tommy's rival pub. Tommy's rival pub cuts John off after two pints and then John remembers he can have as much as he wants in Tommy's so goes there and drinks the head of himself.

Are you or your gambling habits in anyway to blame?

If I ever tried to increase the limit it would ask me to wait 24 hours or 7 days in some cases.. usually allowing enough time for a cool head to prevail.

These controls are set so that you can’t just instantly decide you want to gamble loads.. they gave me that option.

kwestfan08 · 06-12-2017 9:27am

Why didn't you just use one of the other four availible accounts to you to do your punting that had a limit on them? You had a choice in where you bet or am I missing something?

bucketybuck · 06-12-2017 9:29am

Rosstopher wrote: »

6 months later Tommy tells John one day that he’s just got a new license so that their agreement isn’t in place anymore

There's your duty of care right there.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:35am

People have lost track considerably here. I’m not looking for counseling.

Perhaps if I rephrased the question and didn’t give ammunition to allow people to make things personal.

So..

If a person sets a limit with a bookie, should that bookie be allowed to instantly remove the limit?

Even if you inform the customer, you are still notifying someone that’s acknowledged a problem that they have unlimited access to gambling.

But anyway, I don’t expect any decent replies.

Mods please close thread.

Collie D · 06-12-2017 9:37am

Obvious question and I'll probably have my head bitten off for it but why didn't you reset the limit when you got the email? Have you done it now?

wylo · 06-12-2017 9:44am

What kind of “decent reply” do you want?

Bookies don’t have to provide the limits service if they don’t want to (afaik). Stop gambling simple as. Are you honestly blaming them? They even tried to tell you the limits have been reset.

Are they supposed to just guess what limit you want after their database was cleared.

You shouldn’t be using bookies if you’re not cut out for it. Much like alcoholics shouldn’t have that “1 pint”.

It’s issues like this that only further increases our nanny state factor.

bucketybuck · 06-12-2017 9:44am

If any company reset all their terms and conditions then that could affect any agreements made and so yes, I would expect all existing agreements to become null and void. It happens frequently and customers often benefit from it because they can walk way from certain contracts at that time if they wanted to.

If the terms and conditions change then the agreements have to change as well, thats just common sense. And if the agreements are changing then the customer needs to actively engage in this, the company cannot just reapply the old agreements because you will get somebody complaining, "I agreed to this but it was under the old conditions, not these new ones, I wouldn't have done it under the new terms and conditions".

So the terms and conditions have changed and any old agreements cannot remain in place, whats the sensible thing to do? Thats right, inform the customer who can then put in place new and updated agreements.

MarkY91 · 06-12-2017 9:46am

They emailed you about the limit being reset. You chose to ignore it. You also chose to go betting over your limit. Deal with your decision and move on.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:48am

MarkY91 wrote: »

They emailed you about the limit being reset. You chose to ignore it. You also chose to go betting over your limit. Deal with your decision and move on.

What are you on about? Even had I not ignored it, they afforded me instant access to unlimited gambling! The timing or ignorance of the email is not what I’m questioning.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:51am

Collie D wrote: »

Obvious question and I'll probably have my head bitten off for it but why didn't you reset the limit when you got the email? Have you done it now?

There’s no need for more patronisation, honestly.

And the answer is I don’t know. I hadn’t gambled much in a while and thought I’ll get around to it at some stage as it would take a few minutes.

But my query was nothing to do with my control, I know I lost it. I just wanted to know the bookmakers responsibilities and if I had any grounds for complaint. Instead it’s gambling and responding to email therapy in here.

Rosstopher · 06-12-2017 9:52am

bucketybuck wrote: »

If any company reset all their terms and conditions then that could affect any agreements made and so yes, I would expect all existing agreements to become null and void. It happens frequently and customers often benefit from it because they can walk way from certain contracts at that time if they wanted to.

If the terms and conditions change then the agreements have to change as well, thats just common sense. And if the agreements are changing then the customer needs to actively engage in this, the company cannot just reapply the old agreements because you will get somebody complaining, "I agreed to this but it was under the old conditions, not these new ones, I wouldn't have done it under the new terms and conditions".

So the terms and conditions have changed and any old agreements cannot remain in place, whats the sensible thing to do? Thats right, inform the customer who can then put in place new and updated agreements.

Ok but why are they able to hold onto every other detail including my debit card but not hang onto details on my limits? I thought acting responsibly would be upholding any limits. These companies I am told are under severe scrutiny to adhere to responsible gambling techniques. Anyway....

Bookmaker Not Acting Responsibly?

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