Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

Tell me how · 05-12-2017 02:03PM

robinph wrote:

If they needed 90 days in order to figure something out then wtf have they been doing for the last 10 months?

F*cking up national areas of conservation in Utah.

Billy86 · 05-12-2017 02:08PM

Mueller has been given Trump's personal banking records: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/05/donald-trump-bank-records-handed-over-robert-mueller

Donald Trump’s personal banking information has formally been turned over to Robert Mueller, the special prosecutor who is investigating whether the president’s campaign conspired with the Kremlin during the 2016 presidential election.

Bloomberg reported early on Tuesday that Deutsche Bank, the German bank that serves as Trump’s biggest lender, had been forced to submit documents about its client relationship with the president after Mueller issued the bank with a subpoena for information.

The new revelation makes it clear that Mueller and his team are investigating the president’s financial transactions. It is not clear whether Mueller is interested in the bank accounts because they are connected to the Russia probe or if he is investigating another matter.

Leroy42 · 05-12-2017 02:12PM

What is the legal position in regards to Mueller looking for Trumps tax records? I would assume that as part of an investigation, certainly if he is looking at financials, that they can be looked into.

2nd question but OT, are the garda allowed to get info from revenue here?

seamus · 05-12-2017 02:37PM

Leroy42 wrote: »

What is the legal position in regards to Mueller looking for Trumps tax records? I would assume that as part of an investigation, certainly if he is looking at financials, that they can be looked into.

2nd question but OT, are the garda allowed to get info from revenue here?

Sure, with the appropriate warrants.

Would be kind of weird scenario though. Revenue have the power to conduct their own investigations/prosecutions, so if it was a taxation investigation, Revenue would be leading it. For money laundering, Revenue would probably be a party to the investigation.

So I think it would be rare that would be an investigation involving a person's financials, where Revenue wouldn't already be involved.

In Trump's case, the fact that Mueller is going after his bank accounts, and not going to the IRS, and it's not the IRS looking at Trump's bank accounts, suggests that this is related to the Russia investigation. Muller is not interested is how much tax Trump has paid or how much income he's declared, but rather he's looking at the actual money flowing in and out of his accounts - and the sources of same.

Clearly he has reason to believe that Trump has been in receipt of monies from certain sources and is seeking to prove this.

aloyisious · 05-12-2017 02:42PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Mueller has been given Trump's personal banking records: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/05/donald-trump-bank-records-handed-over-robert-mueller

It may not be such a big deal if it's only the US branch offices records he has, unless they show onward connections to undeclared or hidden accounts or dealings abroad or at home. If more undeclared U.S. based connections and accounts records turned up it would be pure gold.

@leroy: http://thelawreviews.co.uk/edition/the-international-investigations-review-edition-7/1145187/ireland.html

It might show the answer you seek.

Section from above link...The Revenue Commissioners is the government agency responsible for the assessment and collection of taxes in Ireland, and also has extensive investigation and prosecution powers. Its investigation and prosecutions division is responsible for the development and implementation of policies, strategies and practices in relation to serious tax evasion and fraud offences. It has a wide range of powers, including the power to conduct civil investigations;6 to conduct investigations into trusts and offshore structures, funds and investments;7 and to obtain High Court orders.8 Of particular significance is the power to obtain information from financial institutions and procure search warrants to this effect.9 Similar to the ODCE, the Revenue Commissioners has the power to prosecute summary offences and to refer cases to the DPP for prosecution on indictment.10

Water John · 05-12-2017 02:44PM

Mueller will search all angles, in relation to Trump connections to Russia. That is the way he will put the jigsaw together. Anything there, it will be found.
Would any bookie take odds on it?

server down · 05-12-2017 03:01PM

So will the assumption be that if Trump got any money from Russia prove that Putin controls him, since Putin owns all the money in Russia.

I am sure they will find some shennaghins, like undeclared foreign earnings etc.

Billy86 · 05-12-2017 03:05PM

It'll be interesting to see how much money may have been coming in from Putin's close mates and their businesses, for a start. It's also going to be very interesting if it branches out to business accounts etc, to see how it ties over with money laundering via Trump properties which has been an open secret for years. One thing highly speculated is that Mueller is going to go after state level crimes like that (e.g. money laundering via Manhattan properties being specific to NY) because they cannot be pardoned. With how quiet Mueller has kept everything related to the investigation until he's ready to unveil a few arrests etc, we won't have a clue until the actual charges come in, but it's interesting to think where he could be going with this.

seamus · 05-12-2017 03:07PM

server down wrote: »

So will the assumption be that if Trump got any money from Russia prove that Putin controls him, since Putin owns all the money in Russia.

I am sure they will find some shennaghins, like undeclared foreign earnings etc.

Will probably be unlikely that anything came directly to Trump. But it can be used to piece together a jigsaw where Trump may have sent money to various intermediaries who have since rolled over or otherwise been subpoena'd by the FBI. If they claim that they received X on Y date for Z services relating to Russia, and Trump's accounts seem consistent with this, then he's in the brown.

aloyisious · 05-12-2017 04:02PM

server down wrote: »

So will the assumption be that if Trump got any money from Russia prove that Putin controls him, since Putin owns all the money in Russia.

I am sure they will find some shennaghins, like undeclared foreign earnings etc.

Undeclared foreign earning, Don trump? Do you think that that undeclaring might be largely illegal?

spacecoyote · 05-12-2017 04:17PM

And now the emails have caught out KT McFarland by the look of things

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/363213-mcfarland-contradicts-herself-on-knowledge-flynns-contacts-with

Leroy42 · 05-12-2017 04:28PM

spacecoyote wrote: »

And now the emails have caught out KT McFarland by the look of things

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/363213-mcfarland-contradicts-herself-on-knowledge-flynns-contacts-with

What a terribly forgetful bunch they all are.

Professor Moriarty · 05-12-2017 04:33PM

aloyisious wrote: »

Undeclared foreign earning, Don trump? Do you think that that undeclaring might be largely illegal?

Tax evasion? The Donald? Never. Just check out his tax returns and you'll see that you're very wrong.

server down · 05-12-2017 04:36PM

aloyisious wrote: »

Undeclared foreign earning, Don trump? Do you think that that undeclaring might be largely illegal?

Sure, but not sure if that is impeachable ( although it is indictable when he leaves office).

A lot of business people in the US wouldn't survive a probe by the FBI. Probably the average worker wouldn't. There are thousands of laws, you are in violation of some of them.

Tell me how · 05-12-2017 04:36PM

spacecoyote wrote: »

And now the emails have caught out KT McFarland by the look of things

http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/363213-mcfarland-contradicts-herself-on-knowledge-flynns-contacts-with

At least Francis Fitzgerald was able to try the excuse of "I hadn't seen the email". Ordinarily, that wouldn't work if you had written the email but maybe Dowd was drafting emails for McFarland also!

Billy86 · 05-12-2017 04:42PM

Just for quick reference so it doesn't get lost in the noise:

“I am not aware of any of the issues or events as described above,” McFarland said in response to a written question from Sen. Cory Booker (D-N.J.) after the hearing about knowledge of Flynn's contacts with Kislyak.

...

A message McFarland sent on Dec. 29 while serving on the Trump transition team appears to be in conflict with her remarks before Congress, according to an email obtained by the Times.

In the email, she reportedly tells another campaign aide that Flynn planned to talk to Kislyak later that day.

The inconsistency will likely add to the already intense scrutiny on the communication between Trump campaign aides and Moscow during the 2016 presidential campaign.

Gas though isn't it, how Vikileaks sat on and point blank refused to release this stuff deeming it 'unimportant' while releasing everything else on the other side regardless of how important it was or was not (which was supposed to be their MO I thought, and not to act as a filter?). It's almost as if Vikileaks had some kind of vested interest in hiding the truth?

Surely not though, no surely not!

Tell me how · 05-12-2017 05:02PM

I know the investigation is largely focusing on whether or not there was contact between the incoming administration and the Russians. We all are fairly confident that there was and the rest of the work is regarding the legality of this and possible culpability of key players.

I am curious as to why the Russians did this and what they have going on behind the scenes now to avail of "their man in Washington". It damn sure wouldn't have been a case of let's see what happens. I'm sure they had a 4 year plan with objectives and milestones which overlap the presidency term of Donald.

The end result could be sanctions for Russia which could impact on the wealth of their oligarchs so it probably wasn't something embarked on lightly.

So what is going on that we will read about in 5 or 10 years and realise, "Oh that's what they were at"?

I recognize this is probably a question for a different thread but if anyone has any immediate answers, I'd be interested in hearing them

Zubeneschamali · 05-12-2017 05:11PM

Tell me how wrote: »

I am curious as to why the Russians did this and what they have going on behind the scenes now to avail of "their man in Washington".

The Trumpists already said they were meeting to talk about "adoptions", that is, they were illegally promising to lift sanctions imposed on Putin's circle in retaliation for the murder of Magnitsky, sanctions which caused Putin to suspend foreign adoptions.

Billy86 · 05-12-2017 05:14PM

Tell me how wrote: »

The end result could be sanctions for Russia which could impact on the wealth of their oligarchs so it probably wasn't something embarked on lightly.

The thing is sanctions were put in place under the Magnitsky Act (which the Russian lawyer discussed with Manafort, Kushner and Trump Jr in Trump Tower, as per Donnie Jr's confession - basically Russia pulled all adoptions to the US in response, which is why the meetings were about "adoptions" - a Trump thinking they were being smarter than they are, which is to be expected).

Further sanctions were put on last year, with more voted on again during this year passing something like 96-4 in the Senate... yet Trump last I heard, having had a temper tantrum over these sanctions, had not put any of them into action (this was by it's deadline a few weeks ago, I'm unsure if there has been any update since).

These sanctions are crippling Putin, as his power lies in keeping the oligarchs happy and receiving his cut of each of their interests in return (which has led to him becoming the estimated richest man in the world by a huge margin). With these sanctions there, the oligarchs pockets are being hit and they're receiving further issues like travel restrictions and US businesses/businesspeople being barred from doing business with them; this is already impact Putin's previously iron grip on power as the Russian Ruble has nosedived in recent years (if I recall it's the only major economy the USD has been outpacing since Trump came to power... possibly the GBP too) and the everyday people are feeling it quite hard. The mutual benefit seems to be Trump get his ego boost and to change tax rules etc to benefit his own pocket at the expense of the gullible rubes that voted for this career con man, while Putin has someone assisting in trying to bring down those sanctions placed on him as well as blocking new ones.

My own theory here of course, but I reckon the initial plan was likely just to wreak havoc and unhinge the US system as is the standard Russian approach in recent years. One of the most defining characteristics of Putin is pragmatism and I don't think they would have ever thought the US voters would be flat out stupid enough to vote Trump into office... but once he started racing ahead in the primaries, which going by what we've learned so far appears to be when Russian involvement intensified, as they probably couldn't believe their good fortune.

circadian · 05-12-2017 06:06PM

I suspect billy86's assessment of lifting sanctions to enable to flow of money again is on point. I would agree that Trump getting elected was a stroke of good fortune as well.

I believe their initial plan was to destabilise the American political and social structures to weaken them on the world stage, as per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

Here's an excerpt;

Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics.

Ukraine and Brexit also feature in this publication, from 1997.

C14N · 05-12-2017 06:13PM

Tell me how wrote: »

I know the investigation is largely focusing on whether or not there was contact between the incoming administration and the Russians. We all are fairly confident that there was and the rest of the work is regarding the legality of this and possible culpability of key players.

I am curious as to why the Russians did this and what they have going on behind the scenes now to avail of "their man in Washington". It damn sure wouldn't have been a case of let's see what happens. I'm sure they had a 4 year plan with objectives and milestones which overlap the presidency term of Donald.

The end result could be sanctions for Russia which could impact on the wealth of their oligarchs so it probably wasn't something embarked on lightly.

So what is going on that we will read about in 5 or 10 years and realise, "Oh that's what they were at"?

I recognize this is probably a question for a different thread but if anyone has any immediate answers, I'd be interested in hearing them

I'm not sure Putin really expected him to win, any more than Trump himself did. I would have assumed the primary motivation for supporting him was to just generally sow discord in the west, particularly against Clinton who was pretty tough on Russia. Russian bots online have tended to come from all sides politically, with their primary stance being that established western leaders and media (all of whom tended to not be fans of Putin's autocracy) are bad.

server down · 05-12-2017 06:16PM

circadian wrote: »

I suspect billy86's assessment of lifting sanctions to enable to flow of money again is on point. I would agree that Trump getting elected was a stroke of good fortune as well.

I believe their initial plan was to destabilise the American political and social structures to weaken them on the world stage, as per https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundations_of_Geopolitics

Here's an excerpt;

Russia should use its special services within the borders of the United States to fuel instability and separatism, for instance, provoke "Afro-American racists". Russia should "introduce geopolitical disorder into internal American activity, encouraging all kinds of separatism and ethnic, social and racial conflicts, actively supporting all dissident movements – extremist, racist, and sectarian groups, thus destabilizing internal political processes in the U.S. It would also make sense simultaneously to support isolationist tendencies in American politics.

Ukraine and Brexit also feature in this publication, from 1997.

Thats a book by a Russian guy, not Russian policy.

BTW despite what that twitter guys says I doubt that the Logan act applies to transition administrations at all.

Itssoeasy · 05-12-2017 06:17PM

CNN are reporting that Donald trump has told the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Mahmoud Abbas that the US Embassy in Israel will move to Jerusalem. This is according to a spokesman for Mr Abbas.

That's going to cause problems is it not ? By moving its embassy to Jerusalem aren't the US in effect saying Jerusalem is the capital of Israel ?

C14N · 05-12-2017 06:20PM

server down wrote: »

Thats a book by a Russian guy, not Russian policy.

BTW despite what that twitter guys says I doubt that the Logan act applies to transition administrations at all.

Yes, but as the article notes:

The book has had a large influence within the Russian military, police, and foreign policy elites and it has been used as a textbook in the Academy of the General Staff of the Russian military.

server down · 05-12-2017 06:20PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

CNN are reporting that Donald trump has told the Palestinian leader Mahmoud Mahmoud Abbas that the US Embassy in Israel will move to Jerusalem. This is according to a spokesman for Mr Abbas.

That's going to cause problems is it not ? By moving its embassy to Jerusalem aren't the US in effect saying Jerusalem is the capital of Israel ?

Yeh. That’s madness. And remember that this administration also talked to Israel. Although expect to hear very little about that.

Itssoeasy · 05-12-2017 06:23PM

Also trump cut the size of two national parks in Utah for some reason. My understanding is since these national parks have been established they have never been decreased in size. So what is trumps logic(and I use trump and logic together in a very loose way) ?

Leroy42 · 05-12-2017 06:27PM

server down wrote: »

Thats a book by a Russian guy, not Russian policy.

BTW despite what that twitter guys says I doubt that the Logan act applies to transition administrations at all.

I don't see where it allows transition teams a get out.

Per the constitution POTUS remains in office till a certain point, and then the next one comes in. Trump, being the latest case, is a normal citizen until the time that he takes the oath of office. Only then does he gain any powers.

During the transition everyone knows that the old guy is leaving so they either rush to get things done before he leaves or simply wait it out until he is gone. Nowhere does it state that the incoming POTUS has any executive powers.

spacecoyote · 05-12-2017 06:37PM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Also trump cut the size of two national parks in Utah for some reason. My understanding is since these national parks have been established they have never been decreased in size. So what is trumps logic(and I use trump and logic together in a very loose way) ?

My guess is basically sell the land to the highest bidder for mining, etc... to help MAGA

looksee · 05-12-2017 06:41PM

spacecoyote wrote: »

My guess is basically sell the land to the highest bidder for mining, etc... to help MAGA

That, and to spite Obama.

As an aside, Trump hasn't tweeted for around a day and a half...

Odhinn · 05-12-2017 06:46PM

looksee wrote: »

That, and to spite Obama.

As an aside, Trump hasn't tweeted for around a day and a half...

He's been busy, sowing the seeds of a fresh disaster. And disaster it will be.

U.S. President Donald Trump informed Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan's King Abdullah that he plans to move the U.S. Embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem on Tuesday, according to Abbas' spokesman and Jordanian reports. Trump also called Egyptian President Abdel-Fattah al-Sissi to inform him of the decision.

read more: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.826990?utm_source=Push_Notification&utm_medium=web_push&utm_campaign=General
If he puts it in West Jerusalem its bad, if he puts it in Arab East Jerusalem, I wouldn't like to be in a US embassy anywhere near the region.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion thread II

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