Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

bk · 05-12-2017 02:09PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Those business groups do tend to be the most short sighted and ill informed people going. The same crowds who said the LUAS was ruining their trade, that people not being able to park in town was ruining shopping levels, that cyclists don't spend money or people on buses don't do expensive shopping (some points are exaggerated).#

Truth be told, they don't even realise, that they just want the ability to drive into work and park there, and to hell with any damage it causes to their own business.

Actually most small and medium sized business know perfectly well that they do far better with pedestrianisation, cyclists, public transport, etc.

But their voice isn't heard. The business orgs are funded and dominated by the usual big department stores and their attached car parks that earn them big €€€€ in parking fess. They couldn't care less about anything else.

CramCycle · 05-12-2017 02:27PM

bk wrote: »

Actually most small and medium sized business know perfectly well that they do far better with pedestrianisation, cyclists, public transport, etc.

But their voice isn't heard. The business orgs are funded and dominated by the usual big department stores and their attached car parks that earn them big €€€€ in parking fess. They couldn't care less about anything else.

I was more referring to the big department stores and groups who seem to be used more for Vox Pops than any other business. Although I do remember that newsagent giving out on the red tops, based near Parnell Square although I am still convinced it was just an ad ploy rather than genuine annoyance.

MJohnston · 05-12-2017 02:32PM

CramCycle wrote: »

I was more referring to the big department stores and groups who seem to be used more for Vox Pops than any other business. Although I do remember that newsagent giving out on the red tops, based near Parnell Square although I am still convinced it was just an ad ploy rather than genuine annoyance.

Well, at least the complaints about the disruption to business caused by the construction of LCC were somewhat founded. Doesn't make any sense for businesses to grumble about it after it begins operations though, as these big store groups are doing.

Idbatterim · 05-12-2017 03:35PM

are luas fares cheaper with a student leap rather than standard leap card?

CramCycle · 05-12-2017 03:49PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Well, at least the complaints about the disruption to business caused by the construction of LCC were somewhat founded. Doesn't make any sense for businesses to grumble about it after it begins operations though, as these big store groups are doing.

I am not sure how founded they were, but I have no proof one way or the other, I imagine the issue was more with the operator of the shop and other choices, than the LUAS line development.

Idbatterim wrote: »

are luas fares cheaper with a student leap rather than standard leap card?

I think it is capped rather than cheaper, as in you cannot spend more than a fiver a day or 20 a week.

LeinsterDub · 05-12-2017 05:04PM

Motorists who block the Luas Cross City line could face automatic fines and penalty points through the use of new automated “red light” and yellow box junction cameras.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/drivers-who-block-luas-may-face-automatic-fines-and-penalty-points-1.3315088

This will certainly help.

Trams had initially been scheduled to run from St Stephen’s Green to Broombridge in 21 minutes, but following test runs in recent months the timetable has been revised to 27 minutes. However, if junctions are blocked by traffic along the line even this longer journey time will not be met

Not good.

Idbatterim · 05-12-2017 05:38PM

LeinsterDub wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/drivers-who-block-luas-may-face-automatic-fines-and-penalty-points-1.3315088

This is certainly help.

Not good.

remember they were suggesting luas to the airport with a lot more city centre running. 27 minutes now for cross city! would love to have seen the airport run time, probably similar to a slow jog :rolleyes:

Victor · 05-12-2017 07:43PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

are luas fares cheaper with a student leap rather than standard leap card?

If under 19, you are entitled to child fares.

Single and return fares are the same for adults students, other student fares are cheaper than adult.

https://luas.ie/assets/files/Luas%20Summary%20Fares%20Sheet_Valid%20from%20Fri%201st%20Dec%202017_4.pdf

bk · 05-12-2017 07:52PM

CramCycle wrote: »

I was more referring to the big department stores and groups who seem to be used more for Vox Pops than any other business. Although I do remember that newsagent giving out on the red tops, based near Parnell Square although I am still convinced it was just an ad ploy rather than genuine annoyance.

That is my point, we only ever hear from those small number of department stores as they pretty much run the business associations and they are also top advertisers with newspapers etc.

So no wonder we only hear their opinion.

The small and medium size traders who make up the vast majority of business in Dublin absolutely hate them and their associations and disagree with most of what they say, but they can't get their voice heard as they don't have their deep pockets.

MJohnston · 05-12-2017 08:44PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

remember they were suggesting luas to the airport with a lot more city centre running. 27 minutes now for cross city! would love to have seen the airport run time, probably similar to a slow jog :rolleyes:

Well, it wouldn't actually be that bad. The slowest section is always going to be Dominick stop to Stephen's Green stop. Anything you added to the BXD extension that went further out past Broombridge would be quite speedy.

For example, Charlemont stop all the way to the end of the line at Bride's Glen is just over 15km in distance, and takes about 32-34 minutes to travel.

Now to indulge in pure hypotheticals for a minute:

Broombridge to the airport would be about 11km in length taking a route out the Ratoath Road and then following the M50 around (I believe the still-hypothetical route that was once suggested by officials was much shorter and went underneath Glasnevin cemetery).

The speed of the existing line I mentioned above works out to around 28km/h. I think this hypothetical section would be likely to have fewer stops compared to the Charlemont-Brides Glen section, so would probably be quicker (with less dwell times), but let's keep it at 28km/h.

So we would be talking about 23 minutes from Broombridge to the Airport on this pretend extension. Now, given most people are going to be heading from the airport to the city centre, it would take them an extra 12 minutes to get from Broombridge to Parnell stop. That's 35 minutes from Airport to City Centre, and tbh, I don't think that's too bad for a tram system.

That all said, I think we shouldn't be doing this, and Metro North definitely needs to happen. But a Luas extension to the airport wouldn't be completely unworkable.

Chivito550 · 06-12-2017 08:53AM

As I speak I see loads of private cars driving down Dawson st. What the hell is that about? I thought it was LUAS, bus and taxi only?

NuMarvel · 06-12-2017 09:07AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

As I speak I see loads of private cars driving down Dawson st. What the hell is that about? I thought it was LUAS, bus and taxi only?

It is after the right turn to Molesworth Street.

Chivito550 · 06-12-2017 09:35AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

It is after the right turn to Molesworth Street.

No, it’s before that, though I saw a van sitting down just past the Dawson st stop.

LXFlyer · 06-12-2017 11:15AM

Chivito550 wrote: »

No, it’s before that, though I saw a van sitting down just past the Dawson st stop.

Simply put, someone not complying with the rules.

Until the full operation starts up at the weekend this will continue to be a problem, but once trams are operating all the time, people will rapidly get used to the changes.

There is still a private car park at the bottom of Dawson St that will have access rights.

But I wouldn’t be expecting this to be a rapid transport system through the city centre, given all of the interactions with buses, pedestrians and other traffic.

The benefit of it is a direct link through the city from south to north.

monument · 06-12-2017 11:28AM

It’s a bit unfair that St Stephen’s Green is included in the €1 off-peak fare but Dominick Street isn’t.

Dominick Street is the closest stop to the Ilac Centre and the closest southbound stop (via the Ilac Centre) to most of Henry Street and Mary Street.

Both St Stephen’s Green and Dominick Street are about the same distance from O’Connel Bridge.

Dyr · 06-12-2017 12:10PM

During the week, I saw a Guinness lorry parked up on the line unloading a heap of kegs into a pub, should be an interesting December ahead.

One of the things I'm being told is that the Luas is allowed to block pedestrian crossings, any truth?

monument · 06-12-2017 12:47PM

Bambi wrote: »

One of the things I'm being told is that the Luas is allowed to block pedestrian crossings, any truth?

This is not true.

Although it is true that the companies and agencies involved with Luas seem to get confused about the law a good bit, from claiming to photographers that they own the copyright of Luas and so on.

donvito99 · 06-12-2017 06:10PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

As I speak I see loads of private cars driving down Dawson st. What the hell is that about? I thought it was LUAS, bus and taxi only?

The Guards were there at lunchtime, as last minute works were being done to the platforms.

yabadabado · 06-12-2017 11:51PM

The issuing of fines will sort out the bollixing very quickly but will AGS be interested?

Kermit.de.frog · 06-12-2017 11:57PM

I'd be worried about the concentration of heroin users that would walk a long the line (particular Northern end of O'Connell St on to Dominick St) and expect a lot of delays and more than likely a few accidents.

Already vids from testing of addicts mindlessly walking in front of trams off their head.

Victor · 07-12-2017 12:02AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'd be worried about the concentration of heroin users that would walk a long the line (particular Northern end of O'Connell St on to Dominick St) and expect a lot of delays and more than likely a few accidents.

Already vids from testing of addicts mindlessly walking in front of trams off their head.

I've used O'Connell Street and Parnell Square a fair bit recently and the worst obstruction offenders are Dublin Bus, Air Coach and private cars.

Kermit.de.frog · 07-12-2017 12:05AM

Victor wrote: »

I've used O'Connell Street and Parnell Square a fair bit recently and the worst obstruction offenders are Dublin Bus, Air Coach and private cars.

Is there enough warning of the line generally?

G_R · 07-12-2017 02:48AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'd be worried about the concentration of heroin users that would walk a long the line (particular Northern end of O'Connell St on to Dominick St) and expect a lot of delays and more than likely a few accidents.

Already vids from testing of addicts mindlessly walking in front of trams off their head.

Abbey street up as far as Jervis is as bad and they manage ok. If they can dodge busses they can dodge trams

LeinsterDub · 07-12-2017 09:16AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'd be worried about the concentration of heroin users that would walk a long the line (particular Northern end of O'Connell St on to Dominick St) and expect a lot of delays and more than likely a few accidents.

Already vids from testing of addicts mindlessly walking in front of trams off their head.

The Junkie /Luas interaction in the rest of the the city is a non issue. I absolutely hate nonsense comments like this. It's just a other way of saying "they'll all end up in the Liffey". There are genuine areas of concern with the Luas launch including cycling, traffic and loading. Junkies and the Luas is not an area of genuine concern.

CramCycle · 07-12-2017 09:40AM

I met one person this morning who was concerned that the number of low lifes and scumbags in south Dublin would increase dramatically. I almost fell out of my seat laughing as they were serious.

Dear co-worker, the southside has reached max. capacity of scumbags long ago, it is no different to the north side in that regard.

Mearings · 07-12-2017 10:11AM

CramCycle wrote: »

I met one person this morning who was concerned that the number of low lifes and scumbags in south Dublin would increase dramatically. I almost fell out of my seat laughing as they were serious.

Dear co-worker, the southside has reached max. capacity of scumbags long ago, it is no different to the north side in that regard.

Was this person Mrs O'Carroll Kelly or maybe her son, Ross?

CramCycle · 07-12-2017 10:26AM

Mearings wrote: »

Was this person Mrs O'Carroll Kelly or maybe her son, Ross?

Really took me by surprise, didn't think they were a snob or didn't realise that in regards north/south, one is as bad as the other. Turns out they have only been over to the north side a hand full of times in their life. The last one was a few weeks ago and they drove, ended up crossing the toll bridge to get back as they couldn't figure out how to get back,

I do despair.

Dyr · 07-12-2017 11:28AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I'd be worried about the concentration of heroin users that would walk a long the line (particular Northern end of O'Connell St on to Dominick St) and expect a lot of delays and more than likely a few accidents.

Already vids from testing of addicts mindlessly walking in front of trams off their head.

Is that the vids where the luas driver is furiously ringing his little bicycle bell at pedestrians....as he approaches a RED LIGHT?

Yeah that's legit

Sam Russell · 07-12-2017 12:39PM

Mod: Can we discuss the Luas please. It is opening for passengers on Saturday.

I would expect the various interruptions to service caused by cars, buses, pedestrians, cyclists and others to learn the rules very quickly - fight with a tram and there is only one winner.

Dyr · 07-12-2017 01:16PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

Mod: Can we discuss the Luas please. It is opening for passengers on Saturday.

I would expect the various interruptions to service caused by cars, buses, pedestrians, cyclists and others to learn the rules very quickly - fight with a tram and there is only one winner.

Saw the luas merrily blocking two pedestrian crossings at once again this morning, seems the message is "we'll do as we bloody well please"

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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