Women calling out other women on bad behaviour toward men

arayess · 03-12-2017 05:33PM #1

I have been idly thinking about the many recent campaigns that place the onus on men to tackle other men for what is deemed unacceptable behaviour toward women. As we know this has sparked a huge reaction ranging from “all men are rapists” to “not all men” and “men aren’t a hive mind and we aren’t responsible for others” and so forth….

In my idle thinking I wondered if there was a situation where women should tackle other women on their behaviour?

And it struck me that many men are denied access to their children by partners and/or ex partners. I am talking about situations where there is no court order and the decision is taken arbitrarily by the women.

Ask a woman about this scenario and most women will feel sorry for men in that situation and say its shocking behaviour yet many women know a woman in that situation yet say nothing. Their silence offers tacit approval to this action.

I myself have been in this scenario – I didn’t see my son for 6 months because I’d a row with my ex. She just refused to answer her apartment bell when I called over or disappeared . The Gardaí could do nothing, it wasn’t a criminal matter. I had to go to family court and it took a while to be resolved costing me 20k approx. in legal fees. I was lucky I had the cash.

I haven’t been sexually assaulted ( I kinda have but I’ve enjoyed women grabbing at me and had a laugh when it happen…although it wasn’t invited) so I can’t claim to fully understand the damage done.

But I can say the damage done by those six months to me was severe and I can't imagine much worse mental damage.

Depression , stress, suicidal thoughts , unable to sleep , dreading meeting people who asked after my son, feeling lesser of a father cos I couldn’t see my son, drinking to excess more than usual , you name it.

Also I was angry with the world and although I got my son back after 6 months that anger and negativity lasted 2 years or so.

In short it was very damaging to me. I’m lucky I got through it without being dramatic about things.

So if men are expected to call out other men who treat women badly or even joke about it.

Should women be encouraged to call out other women who deny men access to their kids?

And If not, why not?

What do you think ? Am I off my rocker to think this?

03-12-2017 05:48PM

arayess wrote: »

What do you think ? Am I off my rocker to think this?

Only if you think gender equality is being sought. It's not. It's about giving women more rights, and freedom/authority over their lives without the responsibility. That's all.

Harry Palmr · 03-12-2017 05:54PM

Can we just ban this stupid term "calling out"? 10 years ago it didn't even exist.

Challenge is the world.

03-12-2017 05:54PM

I don't know anyone who denied access to the father of their kids, but I knew a girl who lied to and manipulated a guy and I told her it was pretty disgusting behaviour in front of him, then never spoke to her again after she lost all self-control.

Nobody would really know that though unless one of us there told them, so how are people supposed to know when someone calls someone out privately?

The men calling out men thing is generally about them harassing women, so that would be public, but lots of people of both genders call people out on things privately, particularly things that aren't in full public view.

I agree with you that people should challenge that sort of thing, but for all I know people are and I'm just not witnessing it.

frag420 · 03-12-2017 05:56PM

Sounds to me like you’re calling out the OP...

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Can we just ban this stupid term "calling out"? 10 years ago it didn't even exist.

Challenge is the world.

03-12-2017 05:57PM

arayess wrote: »

I had to go to family court and it took a while to be resolved costing me 20k approx. in legal fees. I was lucky I had the cash

Sweet Devine Jesus.

Ye must have had a few days in the Circuit Court for those fees, Counsel etc. An application to the District Court should cost €500 to a grand. If someone doesn't have the money, legal aid will step in. They pay just €300.

arayess · 03-12-2017 06:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweet Devine Jesus.

Ye must have had a few days in the Circuit Court for those fees, Counsel etc. An application to the District Court should cost €500 to a grand. If someone doesn't have the money, legal aid will step in. They pay just €300.

barristers and being unfortunately middle class - they both cost.
it was very much contested and dragged on.
Plus we had to hire a guardian ad litem which was 3k alone.

actually on reflection (it was about 10 years ago) , it was the full bill that was approx 20k I think that episode was about 15k

further clarify the matter went on for ages - I lost access to him for 6 months - but with it being contested and false allegations and the rest it went on longer..it didn't end when I got my access back. in Short it got nasty

arayess · 03-12-2017 06:05PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Can we just ban this stupid term "calling out"? 10 years ago it didn't even exist.

Challenge is the world.

after pouring out my soul in a very personal matter on boards - making myself open the both sympathy and ridicule - that was your takeaway point.

well done you.

Oops! · 03-12-2017 06:07PM

I went from having my son every wknd after splitting from my partner for 3 years to now not seeing him for over a year and a half all because she threw the toys out of the pram when she found out i had started seeing somebody... Soul destroying does not start to describe it...

What ever happens between two adults they should sorted out among themselves.... Anybody that denies there kids access to a parent for no reason only spite is the lowest form of person in my book... No kid deserves that.

professore · 03-12-2017 06:07PM

It is a big risk to call a guy out for sexual harrassment in a club or pub. As a man you are likely to get punched or stabbed, or end up in court, with the woman testifying against you in favour of her abusive partner.

Calling it out with a "friend" that you know something about (although I would have nothing to do with such a friend) is less risky and I would absolutely do that.

Supporting a decent man with access to his kids would seem a no brainer and my wife and I have done this with a friend of ours.

For sure there are men and women who support others. Most people don't want to get involved.

03-12-2017 06:08PM

arayess wrote: »

after pouring out my soul in a very personal matter on boards - making myself open the both sympathy and ridicule - that was your takeaway point.

well done you.

You poured 'your soul' out on After Hours... Seriously, what did you expect? The first few pages will be jokes and such, and if it lasts to page 3 or 4, you might get a bit of a discussion.

arayess · 03-12-2017 06:11PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You poured 'your soul' out on After Hours... Seriously, what did you expect? The first few pages will be jokes and such, and if it lasts to page 3 or 4, you might get a bit of a discussion.

rest assured. I'll be ok - I'm just having a dig at him to prove a point
I'm fairly robust on the matter.

professore · 03-12-2017 06:11PM

arayess wrote: »

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Can we just ban this stupid term "calling out"? 10 years ago it didn't even exist.

Challenge is the world.

after pouring out my soul in a very personal matter on boards - making myself open the both sympathy and ridicule - that was your takeaway point.

well done you.

This is After Hours, you are going to get that regardless of the topic.

Grayson · 03-12-2017 06:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Only if you think gender equality is being sought. It's not. It's about giving women more rights, and freedom/authority over their lives without the responsibility. That's all.

Yep feminism is actually about making men second class citizens.

And don't even get me started on NASA and their round earth brainwashing.

andekwarhola · 03-12-2017 06:12PM

I've known of a few men that have had their access fcuked about by spiteful women. I've also known of men that won't take adequate or any responsibility for their children.

Maybe we should just deplore any instances of poor behaviour by humans to other humans.

03-12-2017 06:16PM

Oops! wrote: »

What ever happens between two adults they should sorted out among themselves...

Any family law solicitor worth their salt will tell a client first and foremost, try to talk, secondly, try to talk, and finally, try to talk.

Family law Courts are a tough forum, the case can take time and completely grind people down, there are a fair few family law "experts" out there that are adept at fee building and upping the ante in a situation that really doesn't need any further injection of hostility. You can usually tell within the first letter/conversation or 2 if the opponent is interested in addressing issues sensibly or is trying to claw as much fees out of the wreckage as they can.

Grayson · 03-12-2017 06:18PM

andekwarhola wrote: »

I've known of a few men that have had their access fcuked about by spiteful women. I've also known of men that won't take adequate or any responsibility for their children.

Maybe we should just deplore any instances of poor behaviour by humans to other humans.

There's an idea that women make better parents. Thing is it's because for years women were tied to the home and seen as the child rearing guru's.
It might seem like it's anti men to say that but it originated from a worldview that saw women being stuck in the home.

I think we need longer maternity and paternity leave, mandatory and equal in length. That way both parents are equal partners in child rearing and hopefully those archaic ideas will disappear.

03-12-2017 06:23PM

Grayson wrote: »

There's an idea that women make better parents. Thing is it's because for years women were tied to the home and seen as the child rearing guru's.
It might seem like it's anti men to say that but it originated from a worldview that saw women being stuck in the home.

I think we need longer maternity and paternity leave, mandatory and equal in length. That way both parents are equal partners in child rearing and hopefully those archaic ideas will disappear.

Well, in fairness, the younger the child, the likelier it is that the mother will get custody, and there are very valid reasons for that beyond tradition. Breast feeding being one rather obvious one. The idea that children bond with the mother more has a lot of support in psychology, many argue that bond is formed even before the child is born, it's not some outdated legal view. But there is a strong bias in the non custodial parent having access, and that is increasing all the time, the days of an hour a week are disappearing.

fineso.mom · 03-12-2017 06:36PM

I would hope that I would have a word if any of my friends used their children to get back at their partners, but I haven't seen any behaviour like that from them.
I do have one friend who used to moan about men being bastaŕds ,,generally after yet another failed relationship. Every single time she would say "they're all Bastsárds", I'd reply "um... no. " Then Id list all the decent men i know..My brothers, my friends husbands,, my male friends, even my ex boyfriend who broke my heart. (he fell out of love with me,doesn't make him a bad person).
She eventually stopped.
As it happens I've had the opposite experience with my ex husband regarding our children, never put barriers in his way regarding access, stupidly agreed to a miserable maintenance amount and never once said a bad word about him to the kids. I even made excuses to them for why he didn't come see them more often, because I didn't want them to be disappointed in him. Now they are pretty much grown up and are making up their own minds .
Anyway, I digress. my point is, yes, I would call out bad behaviour towards men . I would hope that I would call out bad behaviour toward anyone though, male or female.

eeeee · 03-12-2017 06:43PM

Grayson wrote: »

Yep feminism is actually about making men second class citizens.

And don't even get me started on NASA and their round earth brainwashing.

No, no it isn't.

Grayson · 03-12-2017 07:09PM

nee wrote: »

No, no it isn't.

I had thought by mentioning nasa the sarcasm would be obvious.

One eyed Jack · 03-12-2017 08:27PM

arayess wrote: »

Should women be encouraged to call out other women who deny men access to their kids?

And If not, why not?

What do you think ? Am I off my rocker to think this?

I wouldn't suggest you're off your rocker to think it, I just don't know how you'd go about such a campaign? Just the same as you get men who point out that they themselves don't commit assault and engage in domestic violence against women, you'd have women who would point out that they themselves don't deny their children's fathers access to their children.

It's a pointless campaign basically.

Women calling out other women on bad behaviour toward men

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