Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward

21-11-2017 02:50PM

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Will Smith in a bad movie? He's been in loads.

After Earth? Collateral Beauty? Winter's Tale?

I'm sure there's more as well.

Wild Wild West.

Chicka chicka wild wild west.

21-11-2017 02:54PM

You just have to wonder what on Earth is going on with DC now. They just cannot get their Movie Universe going anywhere near as DC. Is it because of Disney's money and backing?

Falthyron · 21-11-2017 03:06PM

I watched BvS:EE last night in preparation for seeing Justice League next weekend and it is a better version, but the main problem is still there: Jesse Eisenberg, too many plotholes, and too many coincidences. Then I watched Kermode's review of Justice League.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsLcTO2a0Ec

Sounds like the film suffers from what other superhero films are now suffering from: peak threat. Where else can you go if every threat is world ending? "Oh, they want to kill everyone and take over? Its a good thing we have plenty of experience in dealing with this business... :rolleyes:"

I think ill wait for it to come out on Netflix or something.

ps3lover · 21-11-2017 03:30PM

I guess years of putting out poor products have finally caught up to DC. Box office is quite embarrassing for this one. Not even the recent success of Wonder Woman could save them. I wonder what the plan is going to be now? They'll probably stick to stand alone for awhile before trying a team up again.

kerplun k · 21-11-2017 09:29PM

Just finish watching it.
There’s a lot to like. The story is a bit of a mess, but the JL have great chemistry. My main issue was with Henry Cavill, his face was so weird, I was so confused watching it, only afterwards my brother explained to me that it was because his upper lip was CGI and something to do with a moustache. It stood out like a sore thumb and almost single handily ruins the movie. The team carries the movie, I would have given it a solid 8/10, but the moustache/CGI overall brings my score down to 6.8/10

However is in charge of CGI at WB needs to be fired, that’s BvS, suicide squad and now this where graphics look ****e. Honest to god, it’s on par with Arrowverse.

kerplun k · 21-11-2017 09:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You just have to wonder what on Earth is going on with DC now. They just cannot get their Movie Universe going anywhere near as DC. Is it because of Disney's money and backing?

I just finished watching JL and I can assure you it’s nothing to do with money, it’s just sheer incompetence

TerrorFirmer · 21-11-2017 09:44PM

kerplun k wrote: »

I just finished watching JL and I can assure you it’s nothing to do with money, it’s just sheer incompetence

Considering Justice League cost almost 100 million more than The Avengers and is on par with Age of Ultron (which would have demanded far greater casting costs), it most certainly is not a lack of financial backing.

nix · 22-11-2017 01:57AM

Deleted User wrote: »

You just have to wonder what on Earth is going on with DC now. They just cannot get their Movie Universe going anywhere near as DC. Is it because of Disney's money and backing?

They just need to stop letting Snyder anywhere near it, he's clearly not the right man for the job.

Its been a real massive drop off ever since Nolan passed the reigns, all DC movies have been poop since. (yes including wonder woman)

Penn · 22-11-2017 09:46AM

nix wrote: »

They just need to stop letting Snyder anywhere near it, he's clearly not the right man for the job.

I think Snyder is out of it altogether now anyway. To be honest and even as a huge fan of his work, I wouldn't let Whedon step into his shoes either. Whedon's tones and humour worked perfectly for the MCU, but even though I enjoyed many of the lighter touches in JL that were definitely Whedon's contributions, I don't think it'd suit the DCEU going forward. Maybe for Batgirl, but not the JL films or helping oversee the whole DCEU as he did with Phase 2 of the MCU.

Who they could get to retain the darker, more adult tones set by Snyder while also bringing some level of joy and heroism Whedon helped inject and balance the two, I don't know. But I don't think Snyder is part of the DCEU going forward, and I don't think they should hand the reins to Whedon too quickly either.

doubledown · 22-11-2017 10:46AM

It occurred to me this morning that going to see a DC movie is like seeing your very young child doing a musical recital. You're sitting there in the dark really, genuinely HOPING that they'll hit all the right notes. WILLING them to do well. But then they f**k it up 30 seconds in and s**t their pants as an encore.

22-11-2017 11:02AM

Pretty certain this is a flop (unless China and other regions rescues it).

Box office mojo doesn't have their budget, but a quick Google gives a figure of $300m.

BMJ has it at $101,350,550, which is a huge flop domestically, and $185,000,000 foreign, so it's $286,350,550 total.

Realistically it'd need to make another $200m in China and other regions for it to be considered a financial success.

Dial Hard · 22-11-2017 11:16AM

Tusky wrote:

So much CGI as well - what were those blue tentacles towards the end?

Terraforming.

Tbh, I didn't think the movie was nearly as bad as the reviews on here were indicating. Obviously it wasn't Kramer vs Kramer, but it was still an enjoyable, leave-your-brain-at-the-door couple of hours with good chemistry between the characters and some good action sequences.

22-11-2017 11:19AM

Dial Hard wrote: »

Terraforming.

Tbh, I didn't think the movie was nearly as bad as the reviews on here were indicating. Obviously it wasn't Kramer vs Kramer, but it was still an enjoyable, leave-your-brain-at-the-door couple of hours with good chemistry between the characters and some good action sequences.

I didn't think that at all. There was good chemistry between WW, Batman, and Superman, but the others... not really. I mean, Cyborg's acting was more or less non-existent.

22-11-2017 01:50PM

Haven't seen it, and I'm probably not going to go see it on the big screen if I haven't gone yet. Everything I read about this just dissuades me, even though I'd really like these movies to work.

Can someone who saw the movie answer this for me please, it's to do with the score...

Has Hans Zimmer's Superman theme been dropped? The piano one...

givyjoe · 22-11-2017 02:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Haven't seen it, and I'm probably not going to go see it on the big screen if I haven't gone yet. Everything I read about this just dissuades me, even though I'd really like these movies to work.

Can someone who saw the movie answer this for me please, it's to do with the score...

Has Hans Zimmer's Superman theme been dropped? The piano one...

Some Zimmer stuff is used but not that theme specifically. A version of John Williams's theme is used.

McDermotX · 22-11-2017 03:23PM

The music is instantly forgettable stuff - throwaway superhero guff.
Couple moments of Elfman's Batman creep in and a small smattering of Zimmer when Superman appears, but that's about it.

Penn · 22-11-2017 03:28PM

McDermotX wrote: »

The music is instantly forgettable stuff - throwaway superhero guff.
Couple moments of Elfman's Batman creep in and a small smattering of Zimmer when Superman appears, but that's about it.

In fairness though, I was glad not to be bombarded with Wonder Woman's theme kicking in every time she appeared on screen. I like the theme, but its overuse in BvS was more funny than anything else.

IncognitoMan · 22-11-2017 03:35PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can someone who saw the movie answer this for me please, it's to do with the score...

Has Hans Zimmer's Superman theme been dropped? The piano one...

Mostly yes. There's hints of it just before

They bring back Superman from the dead.
But for Superman's main bit it's mainly a version of the original score.

Overall I was pretty disappointed with the use of the themes though. They are only really teased.

The Justice League theme is fairly forgettable.

HandsomeBob · 22-11-2017 05:50PM

I didn't notice any score tbh, nothing worth recalling anyway.

Chris_Heilong · 22-11-2017 06:26PM

HandsomeBob wrote: »

I didn't notice any score tbh, nothing worth recalling anyway.

I agree, I was worried hearing Elfman was attached but it was fine if not generic, the film its self is alright but feels very undercooked with many missing scenes.

Tylerdurex · 22-11-2017 08:23PM

Regarding Henry Cavills CGI'd mustache scenes
. I have to ask did many people notice any scene with him in it that wasn't CGI'd which begs the question what superman scenes were original Zak Synyder superman scenes ? My guess is that since this was supposed to be a 2 part movie that Henry Cavill didn't feature much in Synders original plan

Tylerdurex · 22-11-2017 08:36PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You just have to wonder what on Earth is going on with DC now. They just cannot get their Movie Universe going anywhere near as DC. Is it because of Disney's money and backing?

It's because they are too greedy and wanted the money now . They weren't willing to invest the time into developing the series properly. I personally think man of steel was very good I don't get the hate with it . Things started to go down hill with BVS and whilst I didn't hate Justice league every one that see it's a slapped together mess. I think Synder dropping out changed to whole dynamic of what was originally planned . There was supposed to be 2 movies another coming out 6 months later I think

Tylerdurex · 22-11-2017 08:38PM

Tylerdurex wrote: »

It's because they are too greedy and wanted the money now . They weren't willing to invest the time into developing the series properly. I personally think man of steel was very good I don't get the hate with it . Things started to go down hill with BVS and whilst I didn't hate Justice league every one that see it's a slapped together mess. I think Synder dropping out changed to whole dynamic of what was originally planned . There was supposed to be 2 movies another coming out 6 months later I think

My worry now with superman as my favourite character is there won't be another superman movie with Henry Cavill or any superman movie for 10 years at least

HandsomeBob · 22-11-2017 10:19PM

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Regarding Henry Cavills CGI'd mustache scenes
. I have to ask did many people notice any scene with him in it that wasn't CGI'd which begs the question what superman scenes were original Zak Synyder superman scenes ? My guess is that since this was supposed to be a 2 part movie that Henry Cavill didn't feature much in Synders original plan

There was 2 or 3 brief moments I think where it looked like Snyder's work and thus no CGI'ed tache;

the slo mo where his eye follows Barry, assisting Victor in forcibly removing the mother boxes and possibly part of the farm scene. The awful thing about the last one is I think it was half Snyder/half Whedon but with completely different purpose; Snyder had filmed a dream sequence, while Whedon used it as part of an actual scene.

May be wrong on them now but in the main I'd agree that much of his scenes seemed to be dominated by the CGI. I'd say Cavill did feature a lot in the story as Snyder had seen it but I think the issue may have been that he dwelt longer on Clark struggling with his resurrection than they wanted.

kerplun k · 22-11-2017 10:59PM

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Regarding Henry Cavills CGI'd mustache scenes
. I have to ask did many people notice any scene with him in it that wasn't CGI'd which begs the question what superman scenes were original Zak Synyder superman scenes ? My guess is that since this was supposed to be a 2 part movie that Henry Cavill didn't feature much in Synders original plan

Yeah. It stuck out like a sore thumb. I still can’t believe that a bunch of grown ups firstly came up with the idea to spend millions, to CGI out a mustache on Henry Cavills face, and then secondly, to green light the glorious mess that we see on screen. It was someones job to make these decisions and they got paid actual real money to come up with that.

Do you think the room laughed when the person came up with the idea, and then took a few moments to realise that he was serious and then they kinda just looked at each other nervously. Then when they seen the results he was like “okay that looks grand, sure you wouldn’t even notice” and the same people were just like looking at each other, saying “Are you going to tell him?”

FunLover18 · 22-11-2017 11:47PM

kerplun k wrote:

Yeah. It stuck out like a sore thumb. I still canâ€™t believe that a bunch of grown ups firstly came up with the idea to spend millions, to CGI out a mustache on Henry Cavills face, and then secondly, to green light the glorious mess that we see on screen. It was someones job to make these decisions and they got paid actual real money to come up with that.

They didn't really have a choice, Cavill is still shooting MI6 and Paramount wouldn't allow him to shave it, he admitted himself in an interview that wearing a fake wouldn't have been possible given the stunts he's doing. It was either CGI, no reshoots or Supes with a tash.

givyjoe · 23-11-2017 08:41AM

FunLover18 wrote: »

They didn't really have a choice, Cavill is still shooting MI6 and Paramount wouldn't allow him to shave it, he admitted himself in an interview that wearing a fake wouldn't have been possible given the stunts he's doing. It was either CGI, no reshoots or Supes with a tash.

Surely they could have just paid Paramount those CGI millions instead to work out some kind of deal.

They couldn't have known how badly it would turn out, surely..

Penn · 23-11-2017 09:57AM

Tylerdurex wrote: »

Regarding Henry Cavills CGI'd mustache scenes
. I have to ask did many people notice any scene with him in it that wasn't CGI'd which begs the question what superman scenes were original Zak Synyder superman scenes ? My guess is that since this was supposed to be a 2 part movie that Henry Cavill didn't feature much in Synders original plan

I'll spoiler since I don't know if spoilers are allowed yet

I think the issue is scenes like talking to Lois on the farm, and where he's fighting the other JLers at the memorial were always going to be part of the film, but that as part of the reshoots dialogue was changed/added to those scenes which meant his face can look fine in some shots (particularly where he doesn't talk) but then there'll be a reshot insert where he says something and it looks off.

Think I read that the scene at the farm was originally supposed to be a dream sequence for Lois (Snyder and his f*cking dream sequences...) but they reshot some of it to make it an actual scene.

After that, bar the fight scene at the end, the cellphone bit at the start and the race against Flash at the end were Whedon additions.

It pretty much felt like anywhere Superman spoke, he had a moustache.

Sad Professor · 23-11-2017 10:37AM

Paramount wasn't going to sacrifice the authenticity and continuity of their movie so Warners could do damage control on their latest superhero misfire. And delaying reshoots by several months until Cavill was finished shooting M:I6 would have pushed back JL's release and risked causing scheduling problems with the other actors, who might have grown moustaches that would have required CGI-ing out as well.

The film is a big CGI-fest anyway. What difference does it make if Cavill's upper lip is CGI as well?

pixelburp · 23-11-2017 11:40AM

A total, unfocused mess that once again betrayed studio tinkering and re-jigging (albeit enforced by personal tragedy this time) based on knee-jerk reactions and an absence of actual creative or structural direction. Sure, it was passingly entertaining in fits & starts, but only in the sense of a stopped clock being right twice a day. The fingerprints of Joss Whedon's reshoots were everywhere, and even by his own standards, the snark and banter felt like first drafts, few of them landing and often simply undercutting what passed for drama in this cavalcade of disjointed scenes masquerading as plot or narrative.

The players within didn't cover themselves in glory either: Ben Afflick turned in an utterly bored performance, clearly echoing his well-publicised desire to quit franchise. Cavill's distracting CGI face was ludicrous and that it has become the talking point of the film surely speaks volumes; only Gal Gadot walked away with any dignity, even if the success of the Wonder Woman film probably ensured even more chopping & editing during post-production.

And while the phrase 'superhero fatigue' is bandied about a lot these days, I think perhaps what I'm feeling myself is more akin to "apocalypse fatigue". Every finale, every goddamn 3rd act these days has to be some colossal, world-ending CGI vomit-beam trying to kill all the things - and Justice League couldn't even raise itself to present a threat with any semblance of substance or originality. A generic utterly interchangeable villain speechified over his CGI plan to CGI the world into a CGI nightmare.

Not even so bad it's entertaining as a so called 'hate watch', Justice League was simply a tedious 2 hours spent watching an aimless, charmless, uncreative franchise flail around in pathetic desperation trying to simultaneously copy Marvel yet make pains in avoiding comparisons.

Side note: When I watched Murder on the Orient Express, I lamented the overuse of recreating the Last Supper as an empty visual cliché. Justice League demonstrated another lazy cinematic stereotype to add: the narrated final montage; usually by a journalist or writer, speaking profound yet vacuous waffle that vaguely tracks with scenes we're watching. Excruciatingly pretentious.

Justice League **Spoilers from post 980 onward**

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Justice League Spoilers from post 980 onward