Day Trading with cryptocurrencies?

The One Doctor · 13-11-2017 8:59pm #1

I'm day trading cryptos at the moment for an extra bit of cash, so far I've used LTC but about to go over to ETH as it has better volume and predictability. Does anyone here do the same? If so, any tips/tricks/strategies that work? I've been doing my research but have only been at it since Saturday so am a total newbie.

I'm up a few hundred € so far so not doing too badly, but the more knowledge I have the better, so if anyone have any experience please share!

flashforward · 13-11-2017 9:21pm

What site are you using for the trades?

The One Doctor · 13-11-2017 9:28pm

GDAX, mainly because it has no maker's fees. No leverage involved.

machiavellianme · 13-11-2017 9:44pm

Day trading is a risky game. There are bots making money from it but very few traders. You might get lucky in times of high volatility, but you can always get unlucky too.
I tried it earlier this summer on ETH and got stung up near the ATH. Even if it grew by 100 euro overnight I'd barely break even.
When a crash happens, the value can fall almost instantly. Exchanges get overwhelmed and crash too leaving you locked out of your own coins until it has settled at some unpalatable floor when it's all too late. Try and set up some stop loss trades to cover yourself.

wally1990 · 13-11-2017 9:47pm

Check out 'thechartguys' on YouTube
They are quite good and will help you understandTechnical analaysis and all chart reading in general that will assist with trading

Grumpypants · 13-11-2017 10:24pm

I've found that you need to be lucky a lot to make money but only unlucky once to lose it.

ZeroThreat · 14-11-2017 12:18am

Grumpypants wrote: »

I've found that you need to be lucky a lot to make money but only unlucky once to lose it.

yeah, I only really have the nerve for hodling, and even that has it's risks in the volatile crypto world.

Anyway, about 95% of traders lose in the long run, so unless you're an expert or really adept, best to pursue a long term investment strategy, at least IMO...

freesheep · 14-11-2017 4:00am

Day trading is extremely risky.

How did it go for you so far? Already in red? :angel:

KilOit · 14-11-2017 11:20am

I don't focus on day trading but I buy a coin really low that has good fundamentals and active devs and sell it in increments with sell orders and just walk away, they mostly fill after a week or 2 then I repeat. If you expect to buy a coin that's up 20% or so that day and sell it same day it's really risky

I got lucky with Neo, omg and walten, buying them at a fraction of what they are now but I got burned by qtum and tenx so it somewhat evens out.

Buying and holding is generally the best and doesn't require constant surveying the market.

If your focusing on gdax don't fomo into buying your ETH and ltc at higher price that you sold, don't sell it all at once either

The One Doctor · 14-11-2017 12:11pm

KilOit wrote: »

I don't focus on day trading but I buy a coin really low that has good fundamentals and active devs and sell it in increments with sell orders and just walk away, they mostly fill after a week or 2 then I repeat. If you expect to buy a coin that's up 20% or so that day and sell it same day it's really risky

I got lucky with Neo, omg and walten, buying them at a fraction of what they are now but I got burned by qtum and tenx so it somewhat evens out.

Buying and holding is generally the best and doesn't require constant surveying the market.

If your focusing on gdax don't fomo into buying your ETH and ltc at higher price that you sold, don't sell it all at once either

Good advice, thanks.

I suppose I'm not really day trading as I'm not relying on the price climbing the same day. For instance, last night I thought ETH would move quite a bit based in my newbie chart skills, but I didn't know what way it would go so I didn't buy in. Turns out it went up €12, which would have given me a nice profit, but I'm glad I didn't as it's near ATH, too risky.

So I'm up €380 for the week, but have learned caution. ETH will come back down soon enough for another try. I have a buy order in at €255 though.

The One Doctor · 15-11-2017 5:01pm

A boring update:

I haven't found any opportunities to do quick trades over the last few days. ETH and LTC spiked today and are heading back down. Swapped my ETH 255 buy limit order for an LTC 51.50 buy limit order (more profit for the same exposure). Again, my newbie chart reading suggests that LTC will back down to €51 or less as it really can't stand the heady excitement of €56 whole euro.

To those who day trade - do you prefer trading Alt/BTC pairs or crypto/fiat pairs?

gavkm27 · 16-11-2017 1:39pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

A boring update:

I haven't found any opportunities to do quick trades over the last few days. ETH and LTC spiked today and are heading back down. Swapped my ETH 255 buy limit order for an LTC 51.50 buy limit order (more profit for the same exposure). Again, my newbie chart reading suggests that LTC will back down to €51 or less as it really can't stand the heady excitement of €56 whole euro.

To those who day trade - do you prefer trading Alt/BTC pairs or crypto/fiat pairs?

I only trade BTC/ALT i don't care what my trades are worth in Fiat, all i care about is making more BTC

The One Doctor · 18-11-2017 7:19pm

Well thanks to a moment of of stupidity I lost half my weekly profit by breaking my own rules. Still up €180 though.

The One Doctor · 19-11-2017 7:27pm

Anyone else doing this at the moment? Difficult to judge where to get into positions right now.

Made a few euro on the back of BTC and LTC jumps but looking at ETH if it drops below €286.

rickyjb · 20-11-2017 12:09am

Not doing any day trading but all of my intermittent attempts at buying low/selling high have ended in me not making as much profit as I would have if I'd just "hled". Particularly the big jump up above 7k usd about a month ago, I'd taken my eye off the ball and a sell order triggered at a much lower amount. Missed a lot of profit...
Now I'm just trying to add as much to BTC/ETH/XRP as I can and taking the long view. Though I was very sorely tempted to dump my XRP when it spiked briefly after the Amex announcement, I was pretty sure it was gona drop again. If it continued to soar I'd be kicking myself though.
As a general rule unless you can sit looking at the markets all day every day, and if you have a reasonable amount invested I think holding is the best policy.

ZeroThreat · 20-11-2017 1:07pm

I'm just into medium/long term holding personally, since most novice traders lose in the long run. It's a small group of the veteran experienced market traders who actually gain from that generally.

Day trading also would bring my crypto activities into the sphere of income taxes, and I don't really want to be handing over - 52% (I think) of my profits to Pascal....

The One Doctor · 20-11-2017 1:32pm

ZeroThreat wrote: »

I'm just into medium/long term holding personally, since most novice traders lose in the long run. It's a small group of the veteran experienced market traders who actually gain from that generally

Generally, yes. However, I trade when the market dips. FOMO trading kills daytraders, especially at ATH. I've been caught out once. Never again. I make a small, steady amount with the big three (BTC, LTC and ETH). So far my max profit on one trade was €400, but that was unusual. On average I get €65 per trade after fees, with maybe 3 trades per week.

I'm sure €200 odd per week is peanuts to you guys, but it's an interesting and profitable hobby. I have lots of time on my hands right now and this is a good way of using it. I don't recommend it to people with full time jobs.

For instance, today things are either flat or going slowly up. No dips to trade off. I have alerts set to let me know when things get interesting. I've been tempted to FOMO in LTC but just as I was considering it, the price began dropping. That would have lost me money. I've only got €5k on the exchange so can't take advantage of less than €1 LTC movements.

All in all it's an interesting hobby that pays better than watching YouTube videos!

ZeroThreat · 20-11-2017 2:24pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

Generally, yes. However, I trade when the market dips. FOMO trading kills daytraders, especially at ATH. I've been caught out once. Never again. I make a small, steady amount with the big three (BTC, LTC and ETH). So far my max profit on one trade was €400, but that was unusual. On average I get €65 per trade after fees, with maybe 3 trades per week.

I'm sure €200 odd per week is peanuts to you guys, but it's an interesting and profitable hobby. I have lots of time on my hands right now and this is a good way of using it. I don't recommend it to people with full time jobs.

For instance, today things are either flat or going slowly up. No dips to trade off. I have alerts set to let me know when things get interesting. I've been tempted to FOMO in LTC but just as I was considering it, the price began dropping. That would have lost me money. I've only got €5k on the exchange so can't take advantage of less than €1 LTC movements.

All in all it's an interesting hobby that pays better than watching YouTube videos!

200 a week isn't peanuts to someone who only makes just slightly below the upper single band for the 20% tax rate

Maybe all the others here are gordon geckos however....

covfefe · 20-11-2017 5:53pm

Over how long have you been making €200 per week? If it's only been a few weeks that isn't enough to say that it can be done consistently but that's good results so far, if this is over a long period of time they're very good results.

I've looked into day trading in the past but I think it's pretty close to gambling, everyone is looking at the same buy and sell signals so lots of people tend to for example sell together, the price goes down and they all think they've cracked it.

But then the market can turn around and surprise everyone and you then see liquidations. It's little more that a coin flip from what I can see.

I do think there is money to be made from bots and experienced traders, but it's not for me, I just hold.

The One Doctor · 20-11-2017 6:42pm

covfefe wrote: »

Over how long have you been making €200 per week? If it's only been a few weeks that isn't enough to say that it can be done consistently but that's good results so far, if this is over a long period of time they're very good results.

I've looked into day trading in the past but I think it's pretty close to gambling, everyone is looking at the same buy and sell signals so lots of people tend to for example sell together, the price goes down and they all think they've cracked it.

But then the market can turn around and surprise everyone and you then see liquidations. It's little more that a coin flip from what I can see.

I do think there is money to be made from bots and experienced traders, but it's not for me, I just hold.

I've been doing this for two weeks. Not long and I have far from cracked it. I learn every day. This morning ETH was at 303 and now it's at 312. I would have made €150. Should I have bought? Maybe, but I lose nothing by waiting. I'm in no hurry. I understand the reticence towards day trading cryptos and it's not for everyone.

On another note:

HODLing is not a strategy, it's a belief. It's only a strategy if you have a predetermined exit point. It's going to badly affect mass crypto payment adoption. Would you buy a laptop with €400 if you and everyone else believed that it would become €800 in three months? No, no-one would. Bitcoin will probably remain a wealth store for a while, but the hodlers will kill it eventually.

alb · 20-11-2017 8:10pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

It's going to badly affect mass crypto payment adoption. Would you buy a laptop with €400 if you and everyone else believed that it would become €800 in three months? No, no-one would.

This is a bad argument, it's the same as saying would you buy a laptop for €800 this year if you knew it would be €400 next year? Consumer electronics frequently reduce in value a year later, and yet people buy them in droves, People even pre-order video games at full price, when they'll be half that in a year.

It's effectively the arguments that people prioritise having extra money over goods in all scenarios, and that bitcoin will become worth so much that it will fail, which are both poor arguments imho.

The One Doctor · 20-11-2017 8:19pm

alb wrote: »

This is a bad argument, it's the same as saying would you buy a laptop for €800 this year if you knew it would be €400 next year? Consumer electronics frequently reduce in value a year later, and yet people buy them in droves, People even pre-order opvideo games at full price, when they'll be half that in a year.

It's effectively the arguments that people prioritise having extra money over goods in all scenarios, and that bitcoin will become worth so much that it will fail, which are both poor arguments imho.

I admit it was a bad example. What I'm getting at is that when you consider paying with something that is rapidly increasing in value you will second guess yourself far more often then if you just used a standard fiat currency. That makes it harder to part with your crypto. Mass adoption needs a crypto currency that has a constant value and good transaction speed, like Litecoin or whatever.

I am not arguing that bitcoin will fail because it's worth so much, I'm saying that it will eventually stop being used at all simply because people are too scared to spend it. It'll be like using part of your house deeds to pay for a bottle of wine.

alb · 20-11-2017 8:26pm

Yeah, it's basically Gresham's Law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gresham%27s_law

It encourages people to not spend so frivolously and not to go into debt. It's a counter to needless consumerism, which might not be a bad thing.

I think many of the kinds of people into bitcoin, and on this investment forum in general, are already conscious of investing money to have more value later instead of spending it immediately anyway.

The One Doctor · 21-11-2017 9:40am

Nice little drop at 5am. Luckily I was up with my daughter and was able to take advantage. Thank feck for price alerts.

The One Doctor · 21-11-2017 6:23pm

Got a nice bit from that drop. Just barely had my sell limit matched for my LTC (took ten hours) but got there in the end. I'm learning lots about patience and self restraint.

unkel · 21-11-2017 11:15pm

The One Doctor wrote: »

Nice little drop at 5am. Luckily I was up with my daughter and was able to take advantage. Thank feck for price alerts.

Your little girl might make you a bit of money so. I find ETH tends to drop heavily around 4-5AM, only to pick up again in the few hours after that.

The One Doctor · 21-11-2017 11:52pm

unkel wrote: »

Your little girl might make you a bit of money so. I find ETH tends to drop heavily around 4-5AM, only to pick up again in the few hours after that.

Yeah I've noticed that too! ETH just dropped €5 in the last hour. Still falling.

garrettod · 22-11-2017 2:28am

Hi,

Just wondering, has anyone looked into the possibility of spread betting some of the cryptos rather than actually purchasing them ?

If so, what sites are providing this service please ?

I've been tempted to get into this a little for a while now, reckon that if I went the spread betting route then I remove the risk of fraud which occasionally pops up in the cryptos, along with the extra effort needed to get set up to hold cryptos.

Many thanks.

The One Doctor · 22-11-2017 9:28am

garrettod wrote: »

Hi,

Just wondering, has anyone looked into the possibility of spread betting some of the cryptos rather than actually purchasing them ?

If so, what sites are providing this service please ?

I've been tempted to get into this a little for a while now, reckon that if I went the spread betting route then I remove the risk of fraud which occasionally pops up in the cryptos, along with the extra effort needed to get set up to hold cryptos.

Many thanks.

What risks are you concerned about? ICOs? Wallet issues? If you are considering day trading, spread betting is a higher level of risk, however if you have experience with SB the that risk would be mitigated to some extent. I have no special experience with SB, but i strongly suggest doing plenty of research first. Cryptocurrency fraud issues usually relate to wallet scams, ICOs or new coins. I only stick to trading well established coins such as BTC, ETH and LTC.

garrettod · 22-11-2017 1:11pm

Hi,

Yes, risks relating to wallets etc. There is also still a level of uncertainty with regards to overall security for the cypto's despite all that has been discovered to date, that's removed if you don't physically invest in the crypto also. Then there's the logistics, it's probably faster to spread bet than actually buy a crypto, particularly if you don't have accounts already set up.

Would be interested to hear if anyone is actually using spread betting at present, needless to say

The One Doctor · 27-11-2017 9:13pm

Week 2 update:

Up €345 last week, lost €43 to following the charts too closely (was looking at the 1 and 5 minute charts). Learnt some more lessons about getting in and out at the right time. Up €77 so far this week.

Being confident enough in my buy decisions is the main thing holding me back right now. Better safe than sorry though.

Day Trading with cryptocurrencies?

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