Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

LXFlyer · 17-11-2017 10:38PM

MJohnston wrote: »

Presumably a plan for implementation will also be part of that report?

We will have to wait and see.

God knows - we are only being drip fed information by the NTA.

Montpelier Hill · 18-11-2017 12:02AM

LXFlyer wrote: »

The plans are due to go to public consultation in Q1 2018.

Allowing for the consultation period and inevitable changes and possible redesign following the consultation, then internal vehicle and driver roster redesign, it will be late next year at the earliest, probably Q4, but personally I reckon it will be 2019 before the revised network is implemented.

Jarrett Walker (the network design consultant) favours a Big Bang change. That’s going to require all of the scheduling and rostering to be completed - hence the long lead time.

The infrastructure will depend upon government funding, and I suspect there’s going to be massive opposition to the CPOing of part or all of large numbers of front gardens as suggested under the plan, which in itself will lead to political unease.

So I’m not holding my breath.

I think it's not just the gardens that there will be resistance from people to the CPO process, but also the removal of trees from alongside roads. For example, the council wanted to remove trees from Mount Merrion avenue a few years ago, to put in place a bus lane, but it didn't go head (rightly IMO).

Jamie2k9 · 18-11-2017 07:17PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

Fantastic! Sense prevails.

It's not really about sense, structurally I don't think modifying the existing fleet would be possible or allowed by Alstom. I also don't think if you were in charge in 2003/4 when the orders were placed that you would of considered the impact the Luas would have.

BonnieSituation · 18-11-2017 07:53PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I also don't think if you were in charge in 2003/4 when the orders were placed that you would of considered the impact the Luas would have.

What are you saying here?

That no one could have foreseen the success of Luas or that no one considered it might have been a success at all?

Jamie2k9 · 18-11-2017 08:02PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What are you saying here?

That no one could have foreseen the success of Luas or that no one considered it might have been a success at all?

Nobody could of predicted the level of passengers using it. Yes it would always of been a success but I think the majority of people underestimated it. Like we have had 3 (4 with LCC) extensions opened and increased freq and now longer trams.

The new bars are a welcome addition but I can see why they were not put in the older trams at the time.

bk · 18-11-2017 11:41PM

I saw a Luas running past Trinity College today full of passengers!!

Looked like a group of OAP's, I assume some special tour or something.

Jamie2k9 · 18-11-2017 11:47PM

bk wrote: »

I saw a Luas running past Trinity College today full of passengers!!

Looked like a group of OAP's, I assume some special tour or something.

Don't be so mean :P It was a sh Railway Record Society special.

bk · 18-11-2017 11:51PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Don't be so mean :P It was a sh Railway Record Society special.

Oh sugar! sorry, no offence intended

Jamie2k9 · 18-11-2017 11:55PM

bk wrote: »

Oh sugar! sorry, no offence intended

Just to clarify, I was not on it and I have a couple of decades to go before I are classed as OAP

bk · 18-11-2017 11:59PM

If it is any consolation they looked like they were having a great time and everyone on the street was dead jealous. We all want a go

Which is interesting, I've heard loads of people comment on how great the Luas looks crossing Trinity and up O'Connell St. I think this could have a massive unexpected positive boost for peoples perception of public transport.

Jamie2k9 · 19-11-2017 12:05AM

bk wrote: »

If it is any consolation they looked like they were having a great time and everyone on the street was dead jealous. We all want a go

Which is interesting, I've heard loads of people comment on how great the Luas looks crossing Trinity and up O'Connell St. I think this could have a massive unexpected positive boost for peoples perception of public transport.

I wouldn't class myself as a train spotter but I did come out on 9th November to see a test and one train haul a failed tram back to depot and it was impressive going by Trinity. I would of walked to O'Cnnell St but had something on. Can't wait until it starts up!

Out of interest what time did the tour pass, I was in town for a few hours and would of liked to see it.

MJohnston · 19-11-2017 12:06AM

bk wrote: »

I saw a Luas running past Trinity College today full of passengers!!

Looked like a group of OAP's, I assume some special tour or something.

Been a bunch of them recently:

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/931599427827064832

wakka12 · 19-11-2017 12:21AM

Yeh when I was walking down to college green I thought it was really cool seeing it go by. Gives the whole city a more modernised feeling and feeling that it has decent infrastructure on par with other cities of its size..

wakka12 · 19-11-2017 12:22AM

MJohnston wrote: »

Been a bunch of them recently:

https://twitter.com/CiaranCuffe/status/931599427827064832

lol are they the OAP's a poster mentioned? I don't think many of them would be too impressed with being called that:pac:
Hardly one there looks over 65 haha

bk · 19-11-2017 12:56PM

wakka12 wrote: »

lol are they the OAP's a poster mentioned? I don't think many of them would be too impressed with being called that:pac:
Hardly one there looks over 65 haha

I think it was a different group.

yer man! · 19-11-2017 04:30PM

As was posted in the commuting and transport forum,

https://m.luas.ie/news/news-item.html?newsid=2748

27 minutes journey time now, I presume that's best case scenario.

markpb · 19-11-2017 07:06PM

Interesting piece in there:

If you are using both lines our best advice is to Touch On and Off for the 1st tram trip and then after you change lines Touch On and Off for the 2nd tram trip. By Touching On/Off for each tram trip you will get the best value fare for your overall journey, you will have a valid ticket and you will have the flexibility to change your mind about the 2nd part of your journey.

It sounds like it will work even if you don't tag off and back on again so why are they recommending that people do it? I wonder how many people will bother?

MJohnston · 19-11-2017 07:32PM

yer man! wrote: »

As was posted in the commuting and transport forum,

https://m.luas.ie/news/news-item.html?newsid=2748

27 minutes journey time now, I presume that's best case scenario.

I would imagine it'll speed up as the months go on, tram drivers get better used to the route, pedestrians and car/bus/taxi drivers along the route get better used to the fact that it's active, etc. etc.

If you watch this recent video, 22 minutes is doable - the test tram here doesn't stop at stops, but it does have very cautious speeds the whole way until Broadstone. I think that's something that can be ironed out.

LXFlyer · 20-11-2017 07:30AM

markpb wrote: »

Interesting piece in there:

It sounds like it will work even if you don't tag off and back on again so why are they recommending that people do it? I wonder how many people will bother?

It’s nothing more than trying to avoid the possibility that someone having started at say Brides Glen and going to Museum for example, leaves O’Connell-GPO without tagging off then changes their mind, maybe meets someone and goes for a coffee or to a shop, forgets to tag off, and doesn’t complete the journey at Museum within the maximum journey time.

In that situation they could end up paying two maximum fares, rather than a single Brides Glen to Museum fare (they would be inadvertently tagging on at Museum).

In the normal course of events there is in reality no need to tag off and back on at the interchange points, but they are covering themselves by suggesting people do precisely that.

The maximum journey time allowed between tagging on and off as I recall is 90 minutes.

Chivito550 · 20-11-2017 01:02PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Yeh when I was walking down to college green I thought it was really cool seeing it go by. Gives the whole city a more modernised feeling and feeling that it has decent infrastructure on par with other cities of its size..

Haha, it is not on par though. Not even remotely close.

Chivito550 · 20-11-2017 01:05PM

yer man! wrote: »

As was posted in the commuting and transport forum,

https://m.luas.ie/news/news-item.html?newsid=2748

27 minutes journey time now, I presume that's best case scenario.

27 minutes is pretty terrible to be honest. Concerning.

LXFlyer · 20-11-2017 01:14PM

Chivito550 wrote: »

27 minutes is pretty terrible to be honest. Concerning.

They are doing exactly the same as with other extensions.

Start schedules cautiously in terms of journey times - that allows for familiarisation with other traffic, pedestrians and for refining of traffic light sequences, and then tighten them up in due course.

Better to start cautiously than to over-promise and under-deliver.

cgcsb · 20-11-2017 01:50PM

wakka12 wrote: »

Yeh when I was walking down to college green I thought it was really cool seeing it go by. Gives the whole city a more modernised feeling and feeling that it has decent infrastructure on par with other cities of its size..

It does give that impression of modernity, yes, but then you remember that we don't have integrated ticketing, 6 years after the roll-out of leap cards.

CramCycle · 20-11-2017 02:10PM

cgcsb wrote: »

It does give that impression of modernity, yes, but then you remember that we don't have integrated ticketing, 6 years after the roll-out of leap cards.

Considering when they went over to London to look at that they were told, in no uncertain terms, not to get such a system as integrated ticketing is a logistical nightmare, instead, do what TfL eventually done and transfer it over to Visa/Mastercard who handle fare calculations, and dividing the money up to the separate operators as part of their charge.

But, well, it is Ireland, cannot be doing things right or learning from others.

LXFlyer · 20-11-2017 02:10PM

The attached shows the initial morning peak frequency from Broombridge - as I warned several times it’s not great, and won’t be until the new trams are all commissioned in the Spring.

LXFlyer · 20-11-2017 02:15PM

cgcsb wrote: »

It does give that impression of modernity, yes, but then you remember that we don't have integrated ticketing, 6 years after the roll-out of leap cards.

That’s a broader funding issue - there would have to be either higher fares or increased subsidy to compensate the operating companies for loss of revenue.

The burden of funding of public transport has been slowly increased towards customers and less on subventions - that’s only starting to reverse now.

BonnieSituation · 20-11-2017 05:45PM

CramCycle wrote: »

Considering when they went over to London to look at that they were told, in no uncertain terms, not to get such a system as integrated ticketing is a logistical nightmare, instead, do what TfL eventually done and transfer it over to Visa/Mastercard who handle fare calculations, and dividing the money up to the separate operators as part of their charge.

But, well, it is Ireland, cannot be doing things right or learning from others.

Contactless payments weren't in use to the extent that they are now so it wasn't feasible. And I bet if they delayed the roll out of a ticketing system like leap while we waited on contactless payments to become the norm I'm sure the NTA would have been criticised too. It's a no win.

Your statement above has been trotted out so much on here by others.

Leap has been incredibly successful in take up. It's frankly churlish to criticise it.

fxotoole · 20-11-2017 06:10PM

LXFlyer wrote: »

The attached shows the initial morning peak frequency from Broombridge - as I warned several times it’s not great, and won’t be until the new trams are all commissioned in the Spring.

The Longford to Dublin train stops at Broombridge just after the 08.03 luas leaves for sandyford, and the next tram is not until 08.22. They should change the times of those trams to facilitate Irish rail passengers on that train

markpb · 20-11-2017 06:19PM

fxotoole wrote: »

[The Longford to Dublin train stops at Broombridge just after the 08.03 luas leaves for sandyford, and the next tram is not until 08.22. They should change the times of those trams to facilitate Irish rail passengers on that train

If the other thread about Irish Rail reliability is to be believed, those passengers will probably be just on time for the 8:22 tram!

fxotoole · 20-11-2017 06:42PM

Unfortunately there's some truth in that. It just really grinds my gears that there's no linked up thinking when it comes to public transport in Ireland.

Luas Cross City (Line BX/D) [now open]

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