Brexit discussion thread II

First Up · 14-11-2017 12:20PM

blanch152 wrote:

Well then we will have to have a land border with Northern Ireland, that is required under Single Market and CU rules.

Which is what I have been saying for months.

blanch152 · 14-11-2017 12:22PM

demfad wrote: »

Your statement in bold is untrue:

I answered that already.

There is nothing in Brexit that affects either of those provisions and those lawyers are scaremongering.

The citizenship laws are ours to determine. We could write a law that states anyone born on the Moon is an Irish citizen and we wouldn't be in breach of EU law (we might be in breach of international law on space).

Similarly, the common travel area operates separately to Schengen and would continue to operate. Access to social services, health services, education and employment might be restricted depending on the actual Brexit terms (which are not known yet) but freedom to travel won't.

Water John · 14-11-2017 12:32PM

So after Brexit, any NI person can opt to be an Irish/EU citizen?

blanch152 · 14-11-2017 12:44PM

Water John wrote: »

So after Brexit, any NI person can opt to be an Irish/EU citizen?

Any person born in Northern Ireland is entitled to be an Irish citizen.

I wonder if there will be any citizen tourism to Belfast from the rest of the UK?

Water John · 14-11-2017 12:53PM

Any UK person with NI connections would make use of this. Get an Irish/EU passport.

steddyeddy · 14-11-2017 01:14PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's a topic for a different thread, but yes. The DUP has a hugely disproportionate influence on how the Brexit negotiations will proceed.

Very true. Simon Coveney seems to be playing a blinder in pointing this out and warning the British government not to base policy on what the DUP wants. From the BBC.

Brexit: DUP 'should not influence options' - Simon Coveney

Ireland's foreign minister has said the DUP's influence at Westminster should not limit the British government's options in the Brexit negotiations.
Simon Coveney was speaking at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels.
"I don't accept the options should be limited on the basis of the political arithmetic in the House of Commons.
"That is not how a decision as fundamental and as important to Ireland's future and Britain's future should be made," he told RTÉ.
Analysis: Is UK leaving the customs union?
Customs union, free trade area and single market - an explainer
All you need to know about Brexit
Prime Minister Theresa May reached a deal with the DUP in June after losing her majority in the general election in June.
The DUP, that has 10 MPs, agreed to back the Conservatives in key votes - such as a Budget and a confidence motion - but are not tied into supporting them on other measures.
With regard to Brexit, Mr Coveney said: "I don't think that the solutions for the permanent new relationship between Britain and Ireland and Britain and the EU should be subject to one political party of any hue."
He added: "Lots of parties on the island of Ireland have a view here, and I think we need to try to take all of those views on board.
"Of course we listen to the DUP, but we listen to other parties, too, in Northern Ireland, and we listen to all the parties in opposition and in government in Ireland, which is what we're trying to do with the stakeholders consultations."
Last month, the DUP's Nigel Dodds said part of the confidence and supply arrangement agreed with Theresa May is about ensuring the will of the people to leave the EU, as expressed in the Brexit referendum, is delivered in a timely and proper fashion.

Mr Coveney also said that if it was not possible for Britain to stay in the customs union and single market, then all sides would have to design a solution for the issues of the Irish border and co-operation between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
"That's why we are asking for a rethink, and for more progress and clarity on this issue before December," he said.
"Britain and Ireland, working through the structures that involve the EU Task Force, have to find a way forward that not only Britain can live with but that Ireland can live with too.
"If Northern Ireland goes a different direction from a regulatory point of view, then you create unfair playing fields, which on the back of that there is going to have to be systems of checks and balances, and inspections to ensure standards."
In response, the DUP's Diane Dodds said: "Mr Coveney cannot on one hand claim to support the Belfast Agreement whilst ignoring the principle of consent on the other.
"The DUP wants to see sensible and practical arrangements in place when the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, but separating Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom is simply unacceptable.
"This has been made clear by the UK government. The DUP will continue to use our influence to secure the union and deliver economic prosperity for all our people."

steddyeddy · 14-11-2017 01:23PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Any person born in Northern Ireland is entitled to be an Irish citizen.

I wonder if there will be any citizen tourism to Belfast from the rest of the UK?

Not when Belfast's economy is destroyed there won't be. It also brings to mind the problem of the common travel area. How will Britain limit immigration will having free movement from Dublin to Belfast in place?

A Little Pony · 14-11-2017 01:41PM

You keep hearing "Hard Brexit", well that to me is Brexit, that is why I voted for Brexit. To leave the single market and customs union. It is what I expect the government to carry out.

A Little Pony · 14-11-2017 01:46PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's a topic for a different thread, but yes. The DUP has a hugely disproportionate influence on how the Brexit negotiations will proceed.

Very true. Simon Coveney seems to be playing a blinder in pointing this out and warning the British government not to base policy on what the DUP wants. From the BBC.

Brexit: DUP 'should not influence options' - Simon Coveney

Ireland's foreign minister has said the DUP's influence at Westminster should not limit the British government's options in the Brexit negotiations.
Simon Coveney was speaking at a meeting of EU foreign ministers in Brussels.
"I don't accept the options should be limited on the basis of the political arithmetic in the House of Commons.
"That is not how a decision as fundamental and as important to Ireland's future and Britain's future should be made," he told RTÉ.
Analysis: Is UK leaving the customs union?
Customs union, free trade area and single market - an explainer
All you need to know about Brexit
Prime Minister Theresa May reached a deal with the DUP in June after losing her majority in the general election in June.
The DUP, that has 10 MPs, agreed to back the Conservatives in key votes - such as a Budget and a confidence motion - but are not tied into supporting them on other measures.
With regard to Brexit, Mr Coveney said: "I don't think that the solutions for the permanent new relationship between Britain and Ireland and Britain and the EU should be subject to one political party of any hue."
He added: "Lots of parties on the island of Ireland have a view here, and I think we need to try to take all of those views on board.
"Of course we listen to the DUP, but we listen to other parties, too, in Northern Ireland, and we listen to all the parties in opposition and in government in Ireland, which is what we're trying to do with the stakeholders consultations."
Last month, the DUP's Nigel Dodds said part of the confidence and supply arrangement agreed with Theresa May is about ensuring the will of the people to leave the EU, as expressed in the Brexit referendum, is delivered in a timely and proper fashion.

Mr Coveney also said that if it was not possible for Britain to stay in the customs union and single market, then all sides would have to design a solution for the issues of the Irish border and co-operation between Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
"That's why we are asking for a rethink, and for more progress and clarity on this issue before December," he said.
"Britain and Ireland, working through the structures that involve the EU Task Force, have to find a way forward that not only Britain can live with but that Ireland can live with too.
"If Northern Ireland goes a different direction from a regulatory point of view, then you create unfair playing fields, which on the back of that there is going to have to be systems of checks and balances, and inspections to ensure standards."
In response, the DUP's Diane Dodds said: "Mr Coveney cannot on one hand claim to support the Belfast Agreement whilst ignoring the principle of consent on the other.
"The DUP wants to see sensible and practical arrangements in place when the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, but separating Northern Ireland from the rest of the United Kingdom is simply unacceptable.
"This has been made clear by the UK government. The DUP will continue to use our influence to secure the union and deliver economic prosperity for all our people."

The DUP if it wanted could pull the plug on HM Government tomorrow, it is not in the interests for Theresa May or the Conservative Party to get on the wrong side of the DUP. It would immediately set up a general election for next year. The Tories could not function as it is without the DUP deal right now, they are as weak as it is, without the DUP they will be finished as far as this government is concerned.

So with respect this Irish minister, it's kind of irrelevant what he is saying because politically it's not in the Tories interests to "shy" away from the DUP on this issue.

listermint · 14-11-2017 01:46PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

You keep hearing "Hard Brexit", well that to me is Brexit, that is why I voted for Brexit. To leave the single market and customs union. It is what I expect the government to carry out.

And you are fully happy that means Most of your trade is gone in an instant, access to markets is gone in an instant. The most lucrative markets that which are ones that are local because geolocation matters for goods, is gone in an instant.

And you had all the controls over immigration already at the control of any government of the day so nothing changes in that respect.

With all that said, that is what you are happy about. Really ?

If so , why.

An Ciarraioch · 14-11-2017 01:49PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

The DUP if it wanted could pull the plug on HM Government tomorrow, it is not in the interests for Theresa May or the Conservative Party to get on the wrong side of the DUP. It would immediately set up a general election for next year. The Tories could not function as it is without the DUP deal right now, they are as weak as it is, without the DUP they will be finished as far as this government is concerned.

So with respect this Irish minister, it's kind of irrelevant what he is saying because politically it's not in the Tories interests to "shy" away from the DUP on this issue.

But is it in the DUP's interest to push for the hardest possible Brexit - ironically, the softer the Border, the more secure NI's position in the Union becomes, while conversely, the opposite alienates Catholics, Alliance voters and Green supporters.

A Little Pony · 14-11-2017 01:52PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The DUP if it wanted could pull the plug on HM Government tomorrow, it is not in the interests for Theresa May or the Conservative Party to get on the wrong side of the DUP. It would immediately set up a general election for next year. The Tories could not function as it is without the DUP deal right now, they are as weak as it is, without the DUP they will be finished as far as this government is concerned.

So with respect this Irish minister, it's kind of irrelevant what he is saying because politically it's not in the Tories interests to "shy" away from the DUP on this issue.

But is it in the DUP's interest to push for the hardest possible Brexit - ironically, the softer the Border, the more secure NI's position in the Union becomes, while conversely, the opposite alienates Catholics, Alliance voters and Green supporters.

They will have to accept it, NI is part of the UK, we go with the "deal" with the rest of the UK. Everyone in the UK had a vote on the issue and the majority decided to leave.

Chips Lovell · 14-11-2017 02:00PM

While the DUP certainly do have some sway over the Conservatives regarding Brexit arrangements, they by no means have them over a barrel. They can threaten to pull the plug, but if they ever do, the likely alternative is a Corbyn-led Labour government, which I doubt they'd find very palatable.

murphaph · 14-11-2017 02:04PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I think the point is that the only way to ensure some measure of prosperity for northern Ireland is to do whatever is feasible to keep them in the EU, surely?

No, not surely. NI is an integral part of the UK economy. Severing it in the Irish sea will clearly severely damage it.

I don't care too much about the prosperity of Northern Ireland though and am much more interested in our prosperity and I believe a sea border damages us less. NI would have to suck it up and refocus on the EU market and the markets the EU allows them preferential access to.

Sam Russell · 14-11-2017 02:45PM

steddyeddy wrote: »

It also brings to mind the problem of the common travel area. How will Britain limit immigration will having free movement from Dublin to Belfast in place?

The CTA is only relevant to citizens of Ireland and those of the UK. It has no relevance to anyone else.

FrancieBrady · 14-11-2017 02:52PM

murphaph wrote: »

No, not surely. NI is an integral part of the UK economy. Severing it in the Irish sea will clearly severely damage it.

I don't care too much about the prosperity of Northern Ireland though and am much more interested in our prosperity and I believe a sea border damages us less. NI would have to suck it up and refocus on the EU market and the markets the EU allows them preferential access to.

Surely severing it from the EU is going to cause the greatest austerity/poverty.

It is all about damage limitation and avoidance of contagion after that.
I care about the whole island (our welfare's are inextricably linked, most definitely in the case of Brexit) and was never selfish about it.

Enzokk · 14-11-2017 03:04PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

The CTA is only relevant to citizens of Ireland and those of the UK. It has no relevance to anyone else.

But there is no passport checks when you travel from Dublin to the UK (as far as I remember) so while other people may have no right to use the CTA, who will stop them as no one should be checking who comes into the UK from Ireland?

First Up · 14-11-2017 03:13PM

Sam Russell wrote:

The CTA is only relevant to citizens of Ireland and those of the UK. It has no relevance to anyone else.

Not sure what you mean by relevant but within Ireland people of all nationalities can travel freely and unchecked. In theory it is illegal for someone with only a visa for ROI to go to the North but they would need to draw a lot of attention to themselves to get into trouble.

Once in NI they could then hop a ferry from Larne to Scotland without any paperwork so I wouldn't call that irrelevant.

demfad · 14-11-2017 03:51PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I answered that already.

You stated that nobody had referenced articles of the GFA that would be affected by Brexit. That statement was false. If you wanted me to link to articles of the GFA that YOU AGREED were affected by Brexit you should have said and would not have bothered replying.

There is nothing in Brexit that affects either of those provisions and those lawyers are scaremongering.

With respect I would take the legal opinions of the most prominent Senior Council in the ROI and the most prominent Queens Council in NI above yours.

I agree with their opinion that the GFA would need to be renegotiated. Here is some other areas of GFA where European Union membership is implied. Note in the opening statement of the GFA it is categorically implied:

AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF
THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
AND
THE GOVERNMENT OF IRELAND

The British and Irish Governments:
Welcoming the strong commitment to the Agreement reached on 10th April 1998 by themselves and other participants in the multi-party talks and set out in Annex 1 to this Agreement (hereinafter "the Multi-Party Agreement");
Considering that the Multi-Party Agreement offers an opportunity for a new beginning in relationships within Northern Ireland, within the island of Ireland and between the peoples of these islands;
Wishing to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the closeco-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union;
Reaffirming their total commitment to the principles of democracy and non-violence which have been fundamental to the multi-party talks;
Reaffirming their commitment to the principles of partnership, equality and mutual respect andto the protection of civil, political, social, economic and cultural rights in their respective jurisdictions;
Have agreed as follows:

Here is Article 1 (v) of GFA:

(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

Here are some more articles:

31. Terms will be agreed between appropriate Assembly representatives and the Government of the United Kingdom to ensure effective co-ordination and input by Ministers to national policy-making, including on EU issues.

3. The Council to meet in different formats:
(i) in plenary format twice a year, with Northern Ireland representation led by the First Minister and Deputy First Minister and the Irish Government led by the Taoiseach;
(ii) in specific sectoral formats on a regular and frequent basis with each side represented by the appropriate Minister;
(iii) in an appropriate format to consider institutional or cross-sectoral matters
(including in relation to the EU) and to resolve disagreement.

17. The Council to consider the European Union dimension of relevant matters, including the implementation of EU policies and programmes and proposals under consideration in the EU framework. Arrangements to be made to ensure that the views of the Council are taken into account and represented appropriately at relevant EU meetings.

5. The BIC will exchange information, discuss, consult and use best endeavours to reach agreement on co-operation on matters of mutual interest within the competence of the relevant Administrations. Suitable issues for early discussion in the BIC could include transport links, agricultural issues, environmental issues, cultural issues, health issues, education issues and approaches to EU issues. Suitable arrangements to be made for practical co-operation on agreed policies.

demfad · 14-11-2017 04:22PM

Theresa May has finally come out and attacked Russia for the ongoing cyber war. The mention of "meddling in elections" doesn't sound like much but it is significant and she is well aware that this raises a few ??? What about EU referendum? Is something about to come out?
Also this is notable as the first de-facto rebuke to Trump who stated be believed Putin's version only a few days ago.

“Russia’s illegal annexation of Crimea was the first time since the Second World War that one sovereign nation has forcibly taken territory from another in Europe.
“Since then, Russia has fomented conflict in the Donbass, repeatedly violated the national airspace of several European countries, and mounted a sustained campaign of cyber espionage and disruption.
“This has included meddling in elections, and hacking the Danish Ministry of Defence and the Bundestag, among many others.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/pa/article-5080065/Theresa-May-tells-Vladimir-Putin-We-know-doing.html#ixzz4yPzRwgmF
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

As an aside Daily Mail have also discovered Putin bots were used in Brexit and it may have influenced the results!!!!:

Cynically mocking the warnings of the Remain campaign, these are the messages posted on the day of the Brexit referendum and seen by many thousands of people as the UK decided its future.
But what voters won’t have known is the posts, which may have influenced the result, came from Vladimir Putin’s so-called ‘troll factory’.
Made to appear to originate in the UK or EU countries, the posts have only now been traced to the secret St Petersburg operation exposed by The Mail on Sunday last week.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5073643/The-toxic-tweets-Putin-s-pro-Brexit-troll-factory.html#ixzz4yQ2RDGxY
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

The leaked story on Don Jrs communications with Wikileaks are interesting because Nigel Farage (who is a person of interest in Robert Muellers Trump-Russia investigation) was potentially the physical go between to Julian Assange. Is something about to be revealed here?

And last but not least we have again the 'Professor' (Russian agent) who communicated with young Papadopoulus in Trumps national security team.

Last week Boris said there wasn't 'a sausage' of evidence of Russian interference in Brexit. It was also reported that Professor Mifsud had stated he had a meeting with BoJo about Brexit at a dinner Bojo was speaking at.
BoJo denied ever having met him:
Then Gavin Sheridan found this:

Now..is that Mifsud on the left or is it a sausage? Perhaps both?

A Little Pony · 14-11-2017 04:30PM

The Russians are here, hide under the bed!

demfad wrote: »

blanch152 wrote: »

I answered that already.

You stated that nobody had referenced articles of the GFA that would be affected by Brexit. That statement was false. If you wanted me to link to articles of the GFA that YOU AGREED were affected by Brexit you should have said and would not have bothered replying.

There is nothing in Brexit that affects either of those provisions and those lawyers are scaremongering.

With respect I would take the legal opinions of the most prominent Senior Council in the ROI and the most prominent Queens Council in NI above yours.

I agree with their opinion that the GFA would need to be renegotiated. Here is some other areas of GFA where European Union membership is implied. Note in the opening statement of the GFA it is categorically implied:

AGREEMENT
BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF
THE UNITED KINGDOM OF GREAT BRITAIN AND NORTHERN IRELAND
AND
THE GOVERNMENT OF IRELAND

The British and Irish Governments:
Welcoming the strong commitment to the Agreement reached on 10th April 1998 by themselves and other participants in the multi-party talks and set out in Annex 1 to this Agreement (hereinafter "the Multi-Party Agreement");
Considering that the Multi-Party Agreement offers an opportunity for a new beginning in relationships within Northern Ireland, within the island of Ireland and between the peoples of these islands;
Wishing to develop still further the unique relationship between their peoples and the closeco-operation between their countries as friendly neighbours and as partners in the European Union;
Reaffirming their total commitment to the principles of democracy and non-violence which have been fundamental to the multi-party talks;
Reaffirming their commitment to the principles of partnership, equality and mutual respect andto the protection of civil, political, social, economic and cultural rights in their respective jurisdictions;
Have agreed as follows:

Here is Article 1 (v) of GFA:

(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

Here are some more articles:

31. Terms will be agreed between appropriate Assembly representatives and the Government of the United Kingdom to ensure effective co-ordination and input by Ministers to national policy-making, including on EU issues.

3. The Council to meet in different formats:
(i) in plenary format twice a year, with Northern Ireland representation led by the First Minister and Deputy First Minister and the Irish Government led by the Taoiseach;
(ii) in specific sectoral formats on a regular and frequent basis with each side represented by the appropriate Minister;
(iii) in an appropriate format to consider institutional or cross-sectoral matters
(including in relation to the EU) and to resolve disagreement.

17. The Council to consider the European Union dimension of relevant matters, including the implementation of EU policies and programmes and proposals under consideration in the EU framework. Arrangements to be made to ensure that the views of the Council are taken into account and represented appropriately at relevant EU meetings.

5. The BIC will exchange information, discuss, consult and use best endeavours to reach agreement on co-operation on matters of mutual interest within the competence of the relevant Administrations. Suitable issues for early discussion in the BIC could include transport links, agricultural issues, environmental issues, cultural issues, health issues, education issues and approaches to EU issues. Suitable arrangements to be made for practical co-operation on agreed policies.

Wouldn't mind if it was ripped up, worst form of government in Europe and doesn't work, so it's not worth saving.

listermint · 14-11-2017 04:43PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Russians are here, hide under the bed!

Wouldn't mind if it was ripped up, worst form of government in Europe and doesn't work, so it's not worth saving.

Ah, i see lets deploy the deflection tactics.

So are you disputing the evidence of involvement or trying to side track it like Trump has been ?

An Ciarraioch · 14-11-2017 04:48PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Russians are here, hide under the bed!

Wouldn't mind if it was ripped up, worst form of government in Europe and doesn't work, so it's not worth saving.

And what would you prefer as a replacement - direct rule, or the return of Unionist majority Assemblies?

steddyeddy · 14-11-2017 04:49PM

Sam Russell wrote: »

The CTA is only relevant to citizens of Ireland and those of the UK. It has no relevance to anyone else.

But combined with the lack of a hard border it essentially meant free movement. Now it might mean that passports are checked on the border.

A Little Pony · 14-11-2017 04:50PM

listermint wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Russians are here, hide under the bed!

Wouldn't mind if it was ripped up, worst form of government in Europe and doesn't work, so it's not worth saving.

Ah, i see lets deploy the deflection tactics.

So are you disputing the evidence of involvement or trying to side track it like Trump has been ?

The remain campaign lost by something like a million votes. Remain lost fair and square, the leave campaign had better orators during the debates and got the message across better, even if you disagreed with that message or thought it was lies, it still worked. Russia had nothing to do with why the leave campaign won the referendum.

Sometimes when you lose it's good to bow out gracefully. If Brexit was influenced by the Russians and it swung a million people to vote for Brexit including myself (wish I had seen this propaganda at the time) then I can only thank Putin for helping us out of the EU.

A Little Pony · 14-11-2017 04:53PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

The Russians are here, hide under the bed!

Wouldn't mind if it was ripped up, worst form of government in Europe and doesn't work, so it's not worth saving.

And what would you prefer as a replacement - direct rule, or the return of Unionist majority Assemblies?

Have a government and an official opposition, be able to vote a party out of government and into government, put the emphasis on accountability.

Bigus · 14-11-2017 04:56PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

The remain campaign lost by something like a million votes. Remain lost fair and square, the leave campaign had better orators during the debates and got the message across better, even if you disagreed with that message or thought it was lies, it still worked. Russia had nothing to do with why the leave campaign won the referendum.

Sometimes when you lose it's good to bow out gracefully. If Brexit was influenced by the Russians and it swung a million people to vote for Brexit including myself (wish I had seen this propaganda at the time) then I can only thank Putin for helping us out of the EU.

When all the students of voting age and young families with were away from the uk on their summer break(june23rd referendum day), and couldn't vote.

An Ciarraioch · 14-11-2017 05:00PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

Have a government and an official opposition, be able to vote a party out of government and into government, put the emphasis on accountability.

The problem is that the SDLP and UUP went into opposition, and Stormont still collapsed.

Anthracite · 14-11-2017 05:05PM

solodeogloria wrote: »

The EEA option is off the table because it doesn't honour the referendum result.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

This nonsense again.

The referendum was about withdrawing from the EU. It said NOTHING about the EEA.

listermint · 14-11-2017 05:19PM

A Little Pony wrote: »

The remain campaign lost by something like a million votes. Remain lost fair and square, the leave campaign had better orators during the debates and got the message across better, even if you disagreed with that message or thought it was lies, it still worked. Russia had nothing to do with why the leave campaign won the referendum.

Sometimes when you lose it's good to bow out gracefully. If Brexit was influenced by the Russians and it swung a million people to vote for Brexit including myself (wish I had seen this propaganda at the time) then I can only thank Putin for helping us out of the EU.

Dont worry, you did. Chances are you were forwarding on here and on whatever other social platforms you frequent.

Nice that you dont mind a foreign power influencing your country but are giving out about a foreign power influencing your country.

Boggles

Brexit discussion thread II

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