Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Don Kiddick · 13-11-2017 05:22PM

its_phil wrote: »

Conor Murray very hard done by not to be nominated for World Player of the Year

Not really, club came nowhere... country were midtable for the 6n....harsh as it seems, I think for a 9 & 10 unless the team is successful, the individual performance doesn't always get the plaudits deserved

MJohnston · 13-11-2017 05:25PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

I listened to that conversation and two crucial points weren't made. The first was that nobody mentioned the fact that it was unlikely that Zebo would get the same kind of release clauses in his contract that Sexton got and that allowed him to attend training camps fully.

The second and following from that is that given he wouldn't be involved fully in training camps, he can't really be considered for the RWC. This seems to be a basic requirement for Joe Schmidt, who won't even consider a player for selection if they've missed just one day in the lead up to a match.

So playing Zebo in any match between now and 2019 is taking game time that is needed for his replacement.

Zebo's basic problem is that his replacements have quickly proven more than up to the task. If we have Payne back for the 6N, he won't even be the leading candidate at 15 either.

irishbucsfan · 13-11-2017 05:35PM

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Not really, club came nowhere... country were midtable for the 6n....harsh as it seems, I think for a 9 & 10 unless the team is successful, the individual performance doesn't always get the plaudits deserved

Club performance is irrelevant

Yeah_Right · 13-11-2017 05:36PM

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Not really, club came nowhere... country were midtable for the 6n....harsh as it seems, I think for a 9 & 10 unless the team is successful, the individual performance doesn't always get the plaudits deserved

For the Player of the Year award, club form is irrelevant. They only judge it on internationals.

Edit: beaten to it by IBF.

Former Former · 13-11-2017 05:38PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

For me I worry that they are. Not because of any lack of quality on Rob Kearney's part. Rather his rather dodgy injury profile. Remember 2011 when we lost Murphy and Wallace in the warmups.

I would probably not play him in a summer tour or autumn international in an effort to develop plan b.

Our existing plan B is Jared Payne but his injury profile is worsening and I worry about his professional future especially with the silence on a return date from his current injuries. Our plan C is Simon Zebo who is off to France so exit stage left.

That said I agree with him playing Rob Kearney in these autumn internationals to provide leadership and continuity that the new back three players can rely on.

But his injury profile will either resolve... Or it will create opportunities for others, as it has been doing.

RK playing on Saturday meant that in Ireland's last five tests, five different players have started in the 15 jersey. I'd be surprised if any other position has seen anything resembling that. We may well see a sixth this weekend.

If guys get a run and can't claim the jersey, well...

13-11-2017 05:42PM

I haven't seen a whole lot of Folau this year, has he been that good?

The other four on the list look fair picks.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 13-11-2017 05:44PM

Former Former wrote: »

I'd be surprised if any other position has seen anything resembling that, but we wouldn't suggest dropping any other nailed on starter.

I will be honest and say I have suggested dropping sean obrien for the same reason.

There's no b other position where we have lost or are losing our plan b and plan c.

sorry it's just my opinion. anyway as I said for this series rob kearney should play to give guidance. for the 6 Nations he can play because he is the best option.

Former Former · 13-11-2017 05:58PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I will be honest and say I have suggested dropping sean obrien for the same reason.

There's no b other position where we have lost or are losing our plan b and plan c.

sorry it's just my opinion. anyway as I said for this series rob kearney should play to give guidance. for the 6 Nations he can play because he is the best option.

No need to apologise to the likes of me...

O'Brien is a good example; and also his understudy is an example of how a young player can come in, get an opportunity through injury and force his way into the reckoning. What we need is someone to get a run at 15 when Kearney inevitably goes down clutching his glute, and do what VDF did at 7, but it is yet to happen.

I guess Sexton is the worst example. His Plan B is toiling in a semi-pro league in England and Plan C is otherwise indisposed. Plan D nailed a lovely touchline conversion on Saturday though.

its_phil · 13-11-2017 05:59PM

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Not really, club came nowhere... country were midtable for the 6n....harsh as it seems, I think for a 9 & 10 unless the team is successful, the individual performance doesn't always get the plaudits deserved

Club got to the final of PRO 12 and semis of Europe. Also it's international form that counts towards this award apparently.

Neil3030 · 13-11-2017 06:02PM

Former Former wrote: »

I guess Sexton is the worst example. His Plan B is toiling in a semi-pro league in England and Plan C is otherwise indisposed. Plan D nailed a lovely touchline conversion on Saturday though.

Yeah 10 is really our primary concern for depth IMO. Will Tyler B become a viable option there? We're otherwise hoping for Carbery to step things up significantly in the next two years, because I doubt plans B and C are worth relying on, for various reasons.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 06:05PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

Yeah 10 is really our primary concern for depth IMO. Will Tyler B become a viable option there? We're otherwise hoping for Carbery to step things up significantly in the next two years, because I doubt plans B and C are worth relying on, for various reasons.

Joe clearly rates Carbery for ten. He's giving him every chance to get both game time and mentoring.

Starting to get his kicks too.

13-11-2017 06:08PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

Yeah 10 is really our primary concern for depth IMO. Will Tyler B become a viable option there? We're otherwise hoping for Carbery to step things up significantly in the next two years, because I doubt plans B and C are worth relying on, for various reasons.

Tyler showed potential last season but just wouldn't trust him in a big 6N game against England or a RWC knockout. He can be so ineffectual when he doesn't have a platform.

bilston · 13-11-2017 06:10PM

Former Former wrote: »

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I will be honest and say I have suggested dropping sean obrien for the same reason.

There's no b other position where we have lost or are losing our plan b and plan c.

sorry it's just my opinion. anyway as I said for this series rob kearney should play to give guidance. for the 6 Nations he can play because he is the best option.

I guess Sexton is the worst example. His Plan B is toiling in a semi-pro league in England and Plan C is otherwise indisposed. Plan D nailed a lovely touchline conversion on Saturday though.

Subtlely done FF...you'd catch a couple of fishies on PR if you posted it there

connachta · 13-11-2017 06:52PM

You guys think Jackson is definitely out for RWC?
I don't know the justice schedule...

Burkie1203 · 13-11-2017 06:58PM

connachta wrote: »

You guys think Jackson is definitely out for RWC?
I don't know the justice schedule...

Court case is early next year most likely AFAIK

connachta · 13-11-2017 07:05PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

You guys think Jackson is definitely out for RWC?
I don't know the justice schedule...

Court case is early next year most likely AFAIK

So, not 100% ruled out I guess...

CIARAN_BOYLE · 13-11-2017 07:27PM

connachta wrote: »

So, not 100% ruled out I guess...

If found guilty he is out for the obvious reasons if found not guilty I can't see him staying in Ireland for the obvious reasons (media crap, headbangers on about no smoke without fire, social media trolls etc. If it's not rape it will probably result in a lot of his private life being exposed to media). If he leaves Ireland like with Zebo he is out of the team.

Let's not even mention the mental damage this whole circus could do to his confidence.

Best plan to be without him.

Don Kiddick · 13-11-2017 07:29PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Club performance is irrelevant

Doesn't affect my base point though

stephen_n · 13-11-2017 07:33PM

Don Kiddick wrote: »

Doesn't affect my base point though

Australia were poor to average, didn't stop folau getting nominated. Murray also starred for the lions.

Yeah_Right · 13-11-2017 07:47PM

its_phil wrote: »

Conor Murray very hard done by not to be nominated for World Player of the Year

Which of the nominated players would you drop for him?

I think it's between Folau and Farrell. Did Folau break Rokocoko's record for most tries in a calendar year?

13-11-2017 08:22PM

connachta wrote: »

So, not 100% ruled out I guess...

I'm reluctant to ever say anything is 100% but I really can't see him playing RWC. No matter the outcome of the court case I'd be surprised if he's at Ulster next season tbh.

FACECUTTR · 13-11-2017 08:45PM

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

I'm reluctant to ever say anything is 100% but I really can't see him playing RWC. No matter the outcome of the court case I'd be surprised if he's at Ulster next season tbh.

A stint in England or France for 2-3 years might help things blow over if he's found not guilty. Not ideal but a change of location could keep him playing pro rugby.

Christy42 · 13-11-2017 10:33PM

Zebo was obviously been given enough game time to cover full back for the rwc. Maybe even start depending on other things.

That has just recently been taken away from Joe so I feel like it is unfair for him to have a ready replacement. Honestly Joe just does not seem to trust TOH and he doesn't seem to think a bit of game time will fix it. If he works on whatever he was told then great and he has a shot, just like Zebo in fact. Until then he won't be trusted for the sake of it. I can see a few of the other players being given a shot instead over the next two years to displace Kearney or at least give us cover there.

Look at the 10 spot for how well Joe is dealing with his plans not coming through. Madigan simply never developed enough. Jackson has his own issues but Carbery has been given plenty of time with the squad and is taking the opportunity with both hands.

Neil3030 · 13-11-2017 11:38PM

Did we use Bundee at all in attack? We'll likely incorporate some moves involving him offloading in contact and dear BOD it's going to be glorious. I hope we keep them in the back pocket for Twickenham.

prawnsambo · 13-11-2017 11:41PM

Neil3030 wrote: »

Did we use Bundee at all in attack? We'll likely incorporate some moves involving him offloading in contact and dear BOD it's going to be glorious. I hope we keep them in the back pocket for Twickenham.

It was interesting to look at the stats afterwards. Iirc our centres had one defender beaten and no clean breaks, whereas our back three had six clean breaks and eight defenders beaten between them.

MJohnston · 13-11-2017 11:55PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

It was interesting to look at the stats afterwards. Iirc our centres had one defender beaten and no clean breaks, whereas our back three had six clean breaks and eight defenders beaten between them.

Kick, kick, kick. Clinical destruction of their weakest point.

FACECUTTR · 14-11-2017 12:01AM

Neil3030 wrote: »

Did we use Bundee at all in attack? We'll likely incorporate some moves involving him offloading in contact and dear BOD it's going to be glorious. I hope we keep them in the back pocket for Twickenham.

Playing him off the back of the scrum always caused a bit of confusion to the defending team. Maybe Joe could do a more polished version of it.

Burkie1203 · 14-11-2017 12:02AM

FACECUTTR wrote: »

Playing him off the back of the scrum always caused a bit of confusion to the defending team. Maybe Joe could do a more polished version of it.

Aki threw a couple of lovely long passes which got Conway into a bit of space

FACECUTTR · 14-11-2017 12:14AM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Aki threw a couple of lovely long passes which got Conway into a bit of space

Yes defenders are drawn to him leaving a gap which he can exploit with those passes. Looking forward to seeing more of it.

wavehopper1 · 14-11-2017 12:16AM

Madelynn Glamorous Range wrote: »

I haven't seen a whole lot of Folau this year, has he been that good?

The other four on the list look fair picks.

Folau has been excellent, surrounded by a lot of dross. I think his international try scoring rate this season is an Aussie record, I may be wrong, I thought I heard that on the commentary.
He does seem to be out of a match, not getting involved. Then when the scoreline is tight, he beats two or three men and gets over the line.

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

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Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781