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Would Ireland follow Europe's Lead in Aborting the Huge Majority of Down Syndrome Pos

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Comments

  • #62
    c_man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,436 ✭✭✭c_man


    seamus wrote: »
    The harsh truth is that while our human condition brings us to retroactively "cherish" life experiences, even the hard ones, that doesn't mean everyone will or should cherish those same experiences. And that they shouldn't be forced to endure them.

    Wow. The arrogance to think that you know which lives are worth living and which aren't. Wow.


  • #63
    LadyMacBeth_
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭LadyMacBeth_


    Do the people who think the women that terminate are selfish ever stop and think that maybe the women are thinking of the foetus and not just of themselves? I never understand that. I have Cystic Fibrosis and I often hear of parents of children with CF going on to have more kids, knowing they have a 25% chance of having CF. The arguments the parents usually give are things like ''we won't see them any differently'', or ''We'll love them just the same and we know what treatment is involved already'' etc etc. I wonder how much they are considering the pain that the child will be in. DS has an intellectual disability aspect but it also comes with a lot of medical issues, and maybe women who terminate are considering the impact of these medical issues on their future child as well as everything else.


  • #64
    optogirl
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭optogirl


    c_man wrote: »
    Wow. The arrogance to think that you know which lives are worth living and which aren't. Wow.

    The arrogance to think that your morality should be enforced on everybody.


  • #65
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    topper75 wrote: »
    The Me generation just took it one level higher, and feigns a 'best for all concerned' line of patter in doing so.
    How isn't it?

    The parents won't have do deal with the struggle of a child with a severe disability. The other children in the family, either present or future, won't have their care limited by their parents' need to give so much time and care to a disabled sibling. The aborted foetus will never know the difference.


  • #66
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,760 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Every sperm is sacred.


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  • #67
    MrPudding
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,779 ✭✭✭MrPudding


    end of the road wrote: »
    plenty of "left wing liberals" disagree with baby murder.

    I would probably be considered to be a left wing liberal and I disagree with baby murder, though I am not sure what that has to do with this thread, as it is not talking about baby murder.

    MrP


  • #68
    Tayschren
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭Tayschren


    This eight amendment debate is going to be fvcking dirty, narrative driving attempts like this thread are already muddying the waters

    Pro choice better buck up or they will loose it to the crazies


  • #69
    Wombatman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,341 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Have they developed a test for gingers yet?


  • #70
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    kylith wrote: »
    topper75 wrote: »
    The Me generation just took it one level higher, and feigns a 'best for all concerned' line of patter in doing so.
    How isn't it?

    The parents won't have do deal with the struggle of a child with a severe disability. The other children in the family, either present or future, won't have their care limited by their parents' need to give so much time and care to a disabled sibling. The aborted foetus will never know the difference.
    Ancient Sparta had similar views, they just bashed them off rocks. If the baby is born at 27 weeks you can't murder it, but if it's still in the womb at 27 weeks you personally agree with aborting it? Do you not find that an odd view to take?


  • #71
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    harr wrote: »
    A town not far from me had a very large care home and it was very common practice for parents to leave disabled here and never see them again and not all children left here were seriously disabled children ..a lot the residents are in their 40,s and 50,s now so the practice of giving up children happened well into the 80,s .
    Parents were actively encouraged by nuns ( who ran the Home) and priests to give up the children...the same people who start preaching when abortion is mentioned..

    Maybe asylum was a bit of a harsh word, but it's how it was mentioned to me by other people my parents' age. They were effectively locked up. I'd see many who would be older DS and you know they likely spent most of their lives in something like those until recently.


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  • #72
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Ancient Sparta had similar views, they just bashed them off rocks. If the baby is born at 27 weeks you can't murder it, but if it's still in the womb at 27 weeks you personally agree with aborting it? Do you not find that an odd view to take?


    who has mentioned abortions at 27 weeks? just another strawman.


  • #73
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Ancient Sparta had similar views, they just bashed them off rocks. If the baby is born at 27 weeks you can't murder it, but if it's still in the womb at 27 weeks you personally agree with aborting it? Do you not find that an odd view to take?

    No.

    And abortions due to DS are generally preformed earlier than 27 weeks anyway.

    And Spartans didn't bash infants off rocks, that was Christians. Spartans let them die of exposure. Not much nicer, but less gruesome.


  • #74
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Ancient Sparta had similar views, they just bashed them off rocks. If the baby is born at 27 weeks you can't murder it, but if it's still in the womb at 27 weeks you personally agree with aborting it? Do you not find that an odd view to take?


    who has mentioned abortions at 27 weeks?  just another strawman.
     Some wouldn't bat an eyelid at 27 weeks. Do you disagree with 27 week abortions?


  • #75
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    A Little Pony wrote: »
     Some wouldn't bat an eyelid at 27 weeks. Do you disagree with 27 week abortions?

    I disagree with people not sticking to the topic at hand and instead using whataboutery and straw man arguments.


  • #76
    bucketybuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,938 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Ancient Sparta had similar views, they just bashed them off rocks. If the baby is born at 27 weeks you can't murder it, but if it's still in the womb at 27 weeks you personally agree with aborting it? Do you not find that an odd view to take?

    I see you ignored my earlier post.

    Why do you care so little about the lives and feelings of those who suddenly find out that they have to give up their entire lives and become full time carers?


  • #77
    DEFTLEFTHAND
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    Great article, and brave woman too - it's so tough.
    These pro lifers (anti women-ers) fail to see the difficult lives ahead for everyone involved - they also tend not to give a sh*t once the child is born.

    How do you explain the large percentage of women who are anti abortion. Are they self hating women?


  • #78
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Some wouldn't bat an eyelid at 27 weeks. Do you disagree with 27 week abortions?

    what does have to do with the thread? whataboutery at its finest


  • #79
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    kylith wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
     Some wouldn't bat an eyelid at 27 weeks. Do you disagree with 27 week abortions?

    I disagree with people not sticking to the topic at hand and instead using whataboutery and straw man arguments.
    So you agree with abortion of DS babies at 27 weeks, that is fine. At least you are honest and support on demand abortion.


  • #80
    SusieBlue
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,029 ✭✭✭SusieBlue


    A Little Pony wrote: »
     Some wouldn't bat an eyelid at 27 weeks. Do you disagree with 27 week abortions?

    I think you'll find most would bat an eyelid at 27 week abortions. I haven't seen a single group, charity or politician, or boards member campaigning in support of aborting at that gestation.

    I don't see how its relevant anyway as the discussion at hand is abortion of babies with severe disabilities.

    You are exaggerating intentionally and using emotive examples to get a reaction and to make others feel bad for the beliefs they hold.

    Calling it murder and bringing up people smashing babies heads off rocks are just two examples of you being manipulative in that sense.


  • #81
    Rory28
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rory28


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    So you agree with abortion of DS babies at 27 weeks, that is fine. At least you are honest and support on demand abortion.

    wow. just wow.


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  • #82
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,739 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    So you agree with abortion of DS babies at 27 weeks, that is fine. At least you are honest and support on demand abortion.

    Please point out where I said that.

    Also, please answer bucketybuck's question.


  • #83
    Knine
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,773 ✭✭✭Knine


    I have a child with a very rare genetic disorder. She is a lovely fun loving sweet little lady but every single day I worry about what will happen her if she outlives me or something should happen me. It has been a very tough few years. She goes through things no child ever should & then her little school pal passed away. Yet every day she wakes up with a big smile.

    In a situation such as the OP mentioned I don't honestly know what I would do.


  • #84
    circadian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,430 ✭✭✭circadian


    This test is currently in trials in Ireland. If you're currently pregnant you can sign up for it.


  • #85
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    WhiteRoses wrote: »
    A Little Pony wrote: »
     Some wouldn't bat an eyelid at 27 weeks. Do you disagree with 27 week abortions?

    I think you'll find most would bat an eyelid at 27 week abortions. I haven't seen a single group, charity or politician, or boards member campaigning in support of aborting at that gestation.

    I don't see how its relevant anyway as the discussion at hand is abortion of babies with severe disabilities.

    You are exaggerating intentionally and using emotive examples to get a reaction and to make others feel bad for the beliefs they hold.

    Calling it murder and bringing up people smashing babies heads off rocks are just two examples of you being manipulative in that sense.

    Why? If you believe in abortion then time limits shouldn't matter as the end result is still the same, the ethics behind it remain the same. The reason some don't openly support it is because it is harder to sell to the Irish people who have a hard time believing in it in any form anyway.


  • #86
    Rory28
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,185 ✭✭✭Rory28


    A Little Pony wrote: »
    Why? If you believe in abortion then time limits shouldn't matter as the end result is still the same, the ethics behind it remain the same. The reason some don't openly support it is because it is harder to sell to the Irish people who have a hard time believing in it in any form anyway.

    You keep making assumptions about posters. Most would agree that at 27 weeks it is no longer just a fetus. Move on from this and stick to the topic.


  • #87
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »
    A non-invasive test for Down Syndrome is now being offered by public health care in some Northern European countries.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/down-syndrome-ireland-blasts-prenatal-testing-34969733.html

    This improves on previous methods of testing as being non-intrusive & 99% accurate.

    Now we all like to think of ourselves as loving beings but what are the facts so far with parents receiving the prognosis.

    In Iceland 100% of parents opted to abort
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/babies-with-down-syndrome-deserve-love-not-eradication

    In Denamrk that figure is 98%
    http://www.lifenews.com/2017/03/28/denmark-wants-total-elimination-of-people-with-down-syndrome-aborts-98-of-babies/

    In the Uk that figure is at 90% of those who have the test
    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37500189

    I'm interested if firstly this test would be accepted in Ireland & if it were then what would our respective termination figure be.
    Us Irish have a long & proud history on how we accept & view people with down syndrome so could we be a special case & break the trend.

    Lifesitenews. Says it all really. The abortion rate in Iceland for pregnancies that have screened positive for DS is not 100%.

    http://icelandmag.visir.is/article/fact-check-no-iceland-not-systematically-eradicating-down-syndrome


  • #88
    jacksie66
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,988 ✭✭✭jacksie66


    This post has been deleted.


  • #89
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,190 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    c_man wrote: »
    Wow. The arrogance to think that you know which lives are worth living and which aren't. Wow.
    That's funny you say that, because if you'd read my post you'd know that's exact opposite of what I was saying.

    Whereas clearly you're arrogant enough to believe that all pregnancies should be brought to term no matter what the impact of that may be.


  • #90
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,912 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    jacksie66 wrote: »
    The links the OP provided are from a pro life website. Probably take them with a massive pinch of salt..


    with my blood pressure? you trying kill me?


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  • #91
    CerebralCortex
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,811 ✭✭✭CerebralCortex


    Hooks Golf Handicap wrote: »
    A non-invasive test for Down Syndrome is now being offered by public health care in some Northern European countries.

    https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/down-syndrome-ireland-blasts-prenatal-testing-34969733.html

    This improves on previous methods of testing as being non-intrusive & 99% accurate.

    Now we all like to think of ourselves as loving beings but what are the facts so far with parents receiving the prognosis.

    In Iceland 100% of parents opted to abort
    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/babies-with-down-syndrome-deserve-love-not-eradication

    In Denamrk that figure is 98%
    http://www.lifenews.com/2017/03/28/denmark-wants-total-elimination-of-people-with-down-syndrome-aborts-98-of-babies/

    In the Uk that figure is at 90% of those who have the test
    http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-37500189

    I'm interested if firstly this test would be accepted in Ireland & if it were then what would our respective termination figure be.
    Us Irish have a long & proud history on how we accept & view people with down syndrome so could we be a special case & break the trend.

    Either a) your taking the piss b) you have a profoundly weird ethical outlook or c) a holy Joe with no propensity for reasoning about suffering outside of the confines of religious deontology. Also how can it be genocide? Downs Syndrome sufferers are not an ethnic group?


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