Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 10:48PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

I gave names a few posts ago and i am loking for explanations on why they are excluded.
I dont have the answers, I am looking for someone to explain to me why average is king with uncle joe.

Scannel (rory) - Henshaw is first choice. McCloskey was chosen as back up 12. His firm merits the call up

Cronin - No explanation. Press conference next wednesday might provide answers

TOH - joe doesnt rate him.

prawnsambo · 26-10-2017 10:49PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

I am confused, the post you quote was used to answer a post by you.
Why are you saying Yeah Right, what are you posting about. I am confused. Are you Yeah Right and prawnsambo.
What is happening here?

You referred to 'fanboys', plural. One of the people on here who said Sexton was world class is a Kiwi. His post is on the previous page. Does that clear it up for you?

It's hardly rocket science. :rolleyes:

Mantis Toboggan · 26-10-2017 10:51PM

Seems to be one rule for some and another rule for others.

I wonder if Murray up and left munster would uncle Joe give him the cold shoulder also?

Hastentoadd · 26-10-2017 10:53PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

How exactly are players meant to get experience if they don't get picked?

Fact is wp_rathead the players have been picked. And they have been picked for an exact purpose, for an exact gameplan, for an exact style. Once you get that through your head, and boy reading this thread over the last couple of years has annoyed me intensely, but the fact is that the most knowledgeable posters had it absolutely bang-on all the time. You can fight your corner all you want but to what end would you do that.

The Rape of Lucretia · 26-10-2017 10:55PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

I think the term you are looking for is International class.
World class is something special and Brian ODriscoll is the only irish player I would call world class in the professional era.
After that maybe Tommy Bowe.

Which puts him in what, the Above International class, group ?
Surely not on his own ?

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 10:55PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

1. Explain Led, why did Sexton Led Leinster and Ireland to 3 Heineken Cups, how many leinster players have 3 medals?
2. If he is world class, what does that make carter, a higher level of being?
3. I am not referring to marty moore in any context, the point I am making is furlong is a very important player for Ireland and if he were to leave to say France, uncle joe would break every rule written and unwritten for him to be available for Ireland. And we all on here would agree with that.

1. He was starting 10 in three finals. One of those finals he literally dragged leinster off the floor to win. 10 is the pivotal position on the team. Ireland would not have won 2 titles in 2014 and 2015 without him IMO.

2. Sexton is a world class player. Carter at his best was a cut above but that doesn't mean sexton isnt world class.

3. When Moore left it was seen as a major loss because we were short at TH. But Furlong emerged. John Ryan has improved immensely. Bealham can provide adequate cover and Michael Bent can too. Porter has bags of potential. Our depth has improved a lot.

irishbucsfan · 26-10-2017 10:57PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

How exactly are players meant to get experience if they don't get picked?

This squad is littered with inexperienced players though...

Clegg · 26-10-2017 10:57PM

I don't have a problem with Zebo being cut from the side. He isn't irreplaceable like Sexton is. We've a number of good fullbacks who can slot in and perform well for us. They may not all be as good as Zebo but we'll take the hit if it acts a deterrent to players considering leaving for a foreign side. If that seems like one rule for Sexton and another for everyone else then tough.

Zebo is good but not so good that we can't do without him.

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 10:58PM

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Seems to be one rule for some and another rule for others.

I wonder if Murray up and left munster would uncle Joe give him the cold shoulder also?

If Murray goes after rwc 2019 in think that would be the end of his international career

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 11:00PM

irishbucsfan wrote: »

This squad is littered with inexperienced players though...

20 of the 38 with 10 or less caps i think I read earlier.

connachta · 26-10-2017 11:02PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Aside Aki/Zebo trolls,
let's calm down we're nearly 2 years before RWC
Those who are hard done by Schmidt now have smth like 20 international games to push for their inclusion, and can be noticed in big games starting interpros this week-end
1) any hooker better than Herring
2) TOH
3) Scannell
4) Cooney
5) Beirne

1. I have no issue with Herring selection.
I have. Their names are Cronin, Heffernan, Sherry, McCartney
2. Joe doesn't rate him. Id love to know why. But in this case with so many new faces we need a few experienced heads.
TOH is experienced, centurion + lots of european big games
3. Unlucky but Henshaw and McCloskey are fair calls
Ok with you, but it's C.Farrell who was unexpected. And don't say too many 12. Aki and Henshaw can play 13
4. Cooney is 4th choice
Proved he should be 3rd, and, I hate to say this on a Connacht POV, not far from 2nd
5. Ireland camp begins sunday. Beirne not available until monday week
Excuse

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 26-10-2017 11:07PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Scannel (rory) - Henshaw is first choice. McCloskey was chosen as back up 12. His firm merits the call up

Cronin - No explanation. Press conference next wednesday might provide answers

TOH - joe doesnt rate him.

Zebo I can understand, when Sexton left Ireland should have cut ties. The didnt but that time is gone and past.
scannell cronin and toh decisions are just plain wrong.
Schmidt is well liked on here but mark my words - his decisions are leading him down the same path as kidney and OSullivan before him.
This 6 nations will tell alot about Schmidt, our best players will probably under perform due to the lions, lets see what plans his got.

prawnsambo · 26-10-2017 11:10PM

connachta wrote: »

1. I have no issue with Herring selection.
I have. Their names are Cronin, Heffernan, Sherry, McCartney
2. Joe doesn't rate him. Id love to know why. But in this case with so many new faces we need a few experienced heads.
TOH is experienced, centurion + lots of european big games
3. Unlucky but Henshaw and McCloskey are fair calls
Ok with you, but it's C.Farrell who was unexpected. And don't say too many 12. Aki and Henshaw can play 13
4. Cooney is 4th choice
Proved he should be 3rd, and, I hate to say this on a Connacht POV, not far from 2nd
5. Ireland camp begins sunday. Beirne not available until monday week
Excuse

All the above sounds like Connacht bias. Even Cronin. :pac:

connachta · 26-10-2017 11:16PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

1. I have no issue with Herring selection.
I have. Their names are Cronin, Heffernan, Sherry, McCartney
2. Joe doesn't rate him. Id love to know why. But in this case with so many new faces we need a few experienced heads.
TOH is experienced, centurion + lots of european big games
3. Unlucky but Henshaw and McCloskey are fair calls
Ok with you, but it's C.Farrell who was unexpected. And don't say too many 12. Aki and Henshaw can play 13
4. Cooney is 4th choice
Proved he should be 3rd, and, I hate to say this on a Connacht POV, not far from 2nd
5. Ireland camp begins sunday. Beirne not available until monday week
Excuse

All the above sounds like Connacht bias. Even Cronin. :pac:

Cooney does (Marmion "kicking 9" nightmare)? Beirne? Scannell?

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 11:18PM

connachta wrote: »

1. Herring has played well this season and has been in camp before. Sherry hasnt played much rugby the last few seasons, Cronin is strange omission. Heffernan would be a long shot for now and McCartney is 32 which might be why they arent looking to invest time in a new guy.

2. TOH is inexperienced at international level. And Joe doesn't rate him by the looks of it

3. Henshaw and McCloskey are the 12s in this squad. Henshaw can play 13 but Aki and Farrell will be at 13, and Ringrose is to come back in there so Joe isnt moving Henshaw out to 13. Scannell is unlucky but he lost out to McCloskey who is in great form. Joe sees Henshaw as a 12 no matter how many times you say he can play 13.

4. Cooney has only got a run of games at 9 as first choice his year. He is behind Marmion and McGrath currently. He was behind Marmion at connacht and hasnt done enough at Ulster to leapfrog him at international level

5. Prep for AIs starts on sunday/monday. Beirne is outside IRFU control so he wont be considered and his form doesn't demand it either

1eg0a3xv7b82of · 26-10-2017 11:19PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

1. He was starting 10 in three finals. One of those finals he literally dragged leinster off the floor to win. 10 is the pivotal position on the team. Ireland would not have won 2 titles in 2014 and 2015 without him IMO.

2. Sexton is a world class player. Carter at his best was a cut above but that doesn't mean sexton isnt world class.

3. When Moore left it was seen as a major loss because we were short at TH. But Furlong emerged. John Ryan has improved immensely. Bealham can provide adequate cover and Michael Bent can too. Porter has bags of potential. Our depth has improved a lot.

Sexton is a very good player I am not doubting that, excellent. But there is many excellent players. But world class for me means something special. ODriscoll had it. I am talking legends of world rugby here. When I hear world class I think of players who were just that.
OConnell used to be mentioned in the same breath as matfield - pure green eyed nonsense. Matfield was a different level.

Furlong is excellent and is really important to 2019.

prawnsambo · 26-10-2017 11:23PM

connachta wrote: »

Cooney does (Marmion "kicking 9" nightmare)? Beirne? Scannell?

Have you forgotten that John Cooney played for Connacht already? (Ignoring your ninja edit because you initially forgot, didn't you?)

Scannell and Beirne are just in to make it look unbiased. :pac:

Beirne inclusion is so weak. Clearly can't attend training camp for over a week, but that doesn't matter? Ha!

Scannell would make five centres picked, never been done before that I know of. Perhaps Joe could drop Aki instead?

Yeah_Right · 26-10-2017 11:23PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

How exactly are players meant to get experience if they don't get picked?

He picked 4 uncapped players and 4 players with single digit caps in the backline. Will they get experience? But it doesn't count because your favourite inexperienced player didn't get picked?

connachta · 26-10-2017 11:24PM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

1. Herring has played well this season and has been in camp before. Sherry hasnt played much rugby the last few seasons, Cronin is strange omission. Heffernan would be a long shot for now and McCartney is 32 which might be why they arent looking to invest time in a new guy.

2. TOH is inexperienced at international level. And Joe doesn't rate him by the looks of it

3. Henshaw and McCloskey are the 12s in this squad. Henshaw can play 13 but Aki and Farrell will be at 13, and Ringrose is to come back in there so Joe isnt moving Henshaw out to 13. Scannell is unlucky but he lost out to McCloskey who is in great form. Joe sees Henshaw as a 12 no matter how many times you say he can play 13.

4. Cooney has only got a run of games at 9 as first choice his year. He is behind Marmion and McGrath currently. He was behind Marmion at connacht and hasnt done enough at Ulster to leapfrog him at international level

5. Prep for AIs starts on sunday/monday. Beirne is outside IRFU control so he wont be considered and his form doesn't demand it either

I strongly disagree re Herring and TOH.
I do think Cooney did very well and bring enough to be 3rd choice at least (kick to the posts is a worthy extra)
The rest are tight calls, I get what you mean, you got what I meant

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 11:24PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

Zebo I can understand, when Sexton left Ireland should have cut ties. The didnt but that time is gone and past.
scannell cronin and toh decisions are just plain wrong.
Schmidt is well liked on here but mark my words - his decisions are leading him down the same path as kidney and OSullivan before him.
This 6 nations will tell alot about Schmidt, our best players will probably under perform due to the lions, lets see what plans his got.

There is no way we should have cut ties with sexton. The money issue has changed dramatically since sexton left which is now something major for the irfu. If we want successful provinces the hard ball approach is needed. Otherwise the provinces end up like carsiff blues or ospreys.

Scannell losing out to mccloskey is not wrong. McCloskey is very much in form.
Cronin we dont know why
TOH just isnt rated. There is something Joe doesn't like in his game

Joe is now doing what EOS and Kidney werent doing and developing depth. This squad is very much a here and now selection but with 2019 in mind.

connachta · 26-10-2017 11:26PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

connachta wrote: »

Cooney does (Marmion "kicking 9" nightmare)? Beirne? Scannell?

Have you forgotten that John Cooney played for Connacht already? (Ignoring your ninja edit because you initially forgot, didn't you?)

Scannell and Beirne are just in to make it look unbiased. :pac:

Beirne inclusion is so weak. Clearly can't attend training camp for over a week, but that doesn't matter? Ha!

Scannell would make five centres picked, never been done before that I know of. Perhaps Joe could drop Aki instead?

No I've never forgotten about Cooney. Made the edit to show how I was honnestly worried for Marmion's spot. And sad he's not at least 3rd choice.
Drop Farrell for Scannell. Move Henshaw or Aki to 13 if needed.

Jump_In_Jack · 26-10-2017 11:27PM

To be fair,
Rory Scannell has not regained his form from early last season, and has been overlooked lately to try an experimental combo of Keatley and Bleyendaal together.

O'Halloran has been injured a bit and even looked like being dropped for Darragh Leader lately, so he has been justifiably overlooked.

Cronin has been injured and Tracy has been starting ahead of him a bit so that justifies Cronin being overlooked.

Herring has been playing really well since Best got injured so he deserves a recall to the Irish setup.

Heffernan isn't first choice at Connacht and McCarthy doesn't seem capable of producing the form he had two seasons ago anymore.
Only provincial biase would blinker anyone that either are deserving of a call up.

The Kearneys are most likely very tuned in to what Joe Schmidt demands in training.
My guess is it's something like this;
You know when the coach gives a lecture about something like rucking or tackling or running a good line and then in training he stops and points out a player that did exactly what he was asking for,
My guess is Rob and Dave are both able to deliver exactly what Joe wants and can do all the technical stuff well so he rates them very highly.
That could be why he consistently chooses them over the likes of Gilroy and O'Halloran who are great at broken field running but perhaps aren't good enough at following instructions.
Just my guess.

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 11:29PM

connachta wrote: »

I strongly disagree re Herring and TOH.
I do think Cooney did very well and bring enough to be 3rd choice at least (kick to the posts is a worthy extra)
The rest are tight calls, I get what you mean, you got what I meant

Heffernan isnt good enough right now. Herring has played well and we dont know why Cronin was omitted.

ToH isnt rated by Joe. That much seems clear. I would love to be able to watch an inter pro through Joe's eyes just to get an understanding why.

Murray, Marmion, McGrath, Cooney is the current order at 9. After Murray there isnt a lot in it and Cooneys place kicking isnt enough to bump him up the order for now.

Yeah_Right · 26-10-2017 11:31PM

Marina Old-fashioned Locket wrote: »

well before your time. rugby was a better game to watch and for me from 2007 it started to lose its soul. Look up some old footage, educate yourself. Try and see outside modern rugby which is a game for brawn only, brain unfortunately has been reduced to a select few.
As rugby has beefed up so unfortunatly have many supporters. To think you have never heard of Brian ODriscoll is very sad but its good you are honest.
There was a time when Ireland played the game like it should be but those days are dead and gone. Uncle Joe saw to that.

You said Driscoll. Didn't realise you meant Brian O'Driscoll. Yeah he was good. Probably in the top ten midfielders I've seen.

Please tell me more about rugby pre 2007. I'd love to learn what it was like back then :pac:

Personally I think this selection is quite an exciting one and I'm looking forward to the games.

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 11:33PM

connachta wrote: »

No I've never forgotten about Cooney. Made the edit to show how I was honnestly worried for Marmion's spot. And sad he's not at least 3rd choice.
Drop Farrell for Scannell. Move Henshaw or Aki to 13 if needed.

Joe sees Henshaw as a 12. McCloskey is a 12.

Aki and Farrell are the 13s.

Its not rocket science. Henshaw and McCloskey are the two best 12s on the island so far this season

connachta · 26-10-2017 11:34PM

Jump_In_Jack wrote: »

To be fair,

Herring has been playing really well since Best got injured so he deserves a recall to the Irish setup.

Heffernan isn't first choice at Connacht and McCarthy doesn't seem capable of producing the form he had two seasons ago anymore.
Only provincial biase would blinker anyone that either are deserving of a call up.

The bias is the other way. McCartney/Heff aren't perfect but tell me what Herring did better? I can accept debate about Cronin, or Scannell (the hooker), but there, it's an anti-Connacht bias (because the overall resuts aren't good, but those hookers are not responsible for that).

The Rape of Lucretia · 26-10-2017 11:40PM

Some of this thread is like watching a child trying to cycle without stabilisers for the first time: without the 'Joe is too conservative and doesnt pick young or inexperienced players', or, 'Joe just picks his old Leinster players' supports, some just cant rationalise the omission of assorted favourites and are wobbling all over the shop.

Burkie1203 · 26-10-2017 11:40PM

connachta wrote: »

The bias is the other way. McCartney/HefF aren't perfect but tell me what Herring did better? I can accept debate about Cronin, or Scannell (the hooker), but there it's an anti-Connacht bias (because the overall resuts aren't good, but those hookers are not responsible for that).

Herring has been in camp before and is playing champions cup level. And playing well.

N Scannell is injured. We dont know why cronin wasnt selected. Possibly because he hasnt been at his best.

If all these connacht players are so good how come connacht were so sh1t last season and finished 8th.

prawnsambo · 26-10-2017 11:43PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Some of this thread is like watching a child trying to cycle without stabilisers for the first time: without the 'Joe is too conservative and doesnt pick young or inexperienced players', or, 'Joe just picks his old Leinster players' supports, some just cant rationalise the omission of assorted favourites and are wobbling all over the shop.

Great analogy. I loled. Well, I chuckled a bit anyway.

connachta · 26-10-2017 11:47PM

To sum up, it won't matter a lot for the 2 big games but against Fidji we have a risk to see

2) Herring
4) Dillane
9) McGrath
13) Farrell
15) R.Kearney

where I'd expected to be fair to see
2) Cronin
4) Beirne
9) Cooney
12) Scannell (Aki moved 13)
15) TOH

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - ** MOD NOTE POST #4781 **

Comments

Ireland Team Talk/Gossip/Rumour Thread VIII - MOD NOTE POST #4781