Eircode - Why did they bother?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 21-10-2017 09:37PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

I meant for them as a user with Google maps. So you'd say it's great once wherever you are going gives you their eircode? I think that's a bit of a hinderence and is no different to looking up an address, or the general area in Google maps. What makes it so special in comparison to that?

I disagree. If you look up my postal address you get a townland filled with small roads that are unnamed.

TheRiverman · 21-10-2017 09:51PM

The Eircode system is great if only it is used by everyone.It would be interesting to carry out a survey and find out how many people know their Eircode.I'm sure the percentage of those knowing would be quite or very low.

flaneur · 21-10-2017 10:49PM

Jaylah Low Kidnapper wrote: »

I call nonsense on that. I am in my 70s and very rural. I use Eircode regularly. My friends and neighbours use it too. We all find it such an improvement with regards to deliveries and emergency services. We also use it to find where a location we need to go to is. All codes in a postal area begin with the first three digits, so we only really have to note the final four digits. We can remember phone numbers, so we can remember eircodes. It is not rocket science to use and are as logical as phone numbers.

The same argument was made about 7 digit phone numbers. Telecom Éireann used to be very worried that your fingers might get tired dialing, so used to keep them to 5 digits if at all possible. The result is that we needed a lot of number changes to keep up with demand later on.

astrofool · 21-10-2017 11:59PM

the_syco wrote: »

Garmin have said Eircodes are formatted and structured differently than postal codes in other countries, so I'm guessing that is the problem? Don't think TomTom uses it yet either?

And they wonder why Google is making them irrelevant...

murpho999 · 22-10-2017 01:15AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

But I'm not really complaining, I have used and still attempt to use my Eircode whenever possible. I did say however that the general population have not adopted this system, and that it was a failure in that regard due to poor design, imo.

No that's true, we don't know all the postcodes. However, I can tell you from my experience of growing up there that we know our own local one, then as we grow we expand to a knowledge of the surrounding ones, and so on.

So when I lived in Villeurbanne (69100), and I saw that a particular scented candle shop was in 69003, I knew whereabouts that was. If I saw an ad for a scented candle shop in 69300, I knew I would have to facture in the use of transport to get there. When looking at a guide book for campsites in France, I take note of the postcodes. When I see a cluster with the same postcodes, I know that they're all in the one area, more than likely a town/village I've selected, and that this one with a slightly different postcode is likely to be a bit out of the way.

It's great for me, as I like and use the internet.
As I mentioned a lot of my local area neighbours do not, and they do not necessarily have a sat-nav either. I don't have one, actually.
Had an easier version of Eircode been designed, it would have been brilliant to help find someone's house for a play date, or the location for the local carpenter, etc... with or without sat nav/mobile phone coverage for internet. (signal/coverage a very real issue here)

It could have used letters related to the name of the county, or area.
For example I'm in Waterford. WA for Waterford city area, and WAC for Waterford County area would have been remembered by everyone pretty much immediately.

I still don't really see your point.

If you see an ad for a service you will have a town name in the ad so you can see the location. No business advertises without their address so you can always get it.

The eircode will just get you to the door.

People can also download local google map to their device, ohones are replacing sat navs, so no coverage issue when out and about.

Donal55 · 22-10-2017 09:28AM

TheRiverman wrote: »

The Eircode system is great if only it is used by everyone.It would be interesting to carry out a survey and find out how many people know their Eircode.I'm sure the percentage of those knowing would be quite or very low.

I can't see the problem, it's only 7 characters.

Then again, I work with people who have gone through their whole working life yet they still don't know their PPS number.

professore · 22-10-2017 09:32AM

grogi wrote: »

professore wrote: »

€25k pa for a business to use Eircodes. That's why they are not being used.

https://www.eircode.ie/docs/default-source/Common/licensing-and-pricing-information-as-of-september-2015---published-v-3.pdf?sfvrsn=2

A typical organisation will not require more than €3,000 annually. Might be much smaller if website integration is not required at all.

€25,000 is for an association or alike, exp. Irish Brokers Association, that would give access to Eircode Database to all of its members.

Why is it not free and transparent like other postcode systems?

professore · 22-10-2017 09:36AM

LordSutch wrote: »

Foggy Jew wrote: »

Eircode - Why did they bother?

At the height of Storm Ophelia, my chimney went on fire. (Nobody told me about downdrafts etc). I was horrified at the thought of calling out the fire brigade, knowing that they would be so busy, but as the flames and sparks coming out of the top of the chimney were getting worse, I had to phone them. I live in a rural area - no house numbers. When I got through to the Fire Service, I gave them my eircode, and they said that it was no use to them, and would I give them directions to my house. If Eircodes are not being used by the emergency services, what the heck use are they at all?

Firstly, Eircodes are great.

Secondly, why the hell aren't the emergency services using them? Shame on them ...

The mind boggles.

Because it's a poorly designed system which to the public is just a collection of random numbers and letters.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 22-10-2017 09:37AM

professore wrote: »

Why is it not free and transparent like other postcode systems?

It's free on Google maps.

professore · 22-10-2017 09:39AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Mountainsandh wrote: »

But I'm not really complaining, I have used and still attempt to use my Eircode whenever possible. I did say however that the general population have not adopted this system, and that it was a failure in that regard due to poor design, imo.

No that's true, we don't know all the postcodes. However, I can tell you from my experience of growing up there that we know our own local one, then as we grow we expand to a knowledge of the surrounding ones, and so on.

So when I lived in Villeurbanne (69100), and I saw that a particular scented candle shop was in 69003, I knew whereabouts that was. If I saw an ad for a scented candle shop in 69300, I knew I would have to facture in the use of transport to get there. When looking at a guide book for campsites in France, I take note of the postcodes. When I see a cluster with the same postcodes, I know that they're all in the one area, more than likely a town/village I've selected, and that this one with a slightly different postcode is likely to be a bit out of the way.

It's great for me, as I like and use the internet.
As I mentioned a lot of my local area neighbours do not, and they do not necessarily have a sat-nav either. I don't have one, actually.
Had an easier version of Eircode been designed, it would have been brilliant to help find someone's house for a play date, or the location for the local carpenter, etc... with or without sat nav/mobile phone coverage for internet. (signal/coverage a very real issue here)

It could have used letters related to the name of the county, or area.
For example I'm in Waterford. WA for Waterford city area, and WAC for Waterford County area would have been remembered by everyone pretty much immediately.

I still don't really see your point.

If you see an ad for a service you will have a town name in the ad so you can see the location. No business advertises without their address so you can always get it.

The eircode will just get you to the door.

People can also download local google map to their device, ohones are replacing sat navs, so no coverage issue when out and about.

If you're in emergency services person and somebody gives you a wrong digit in their eircode or it is misheard you are completely screwed and could end up at the wrong end of the country. That's A BIG PROBLEM.

professore · 22-10-2017 09:40AM

professore wrote: »

murpho999 wrote: »

Mountainsandh wrote: »

But I'm not really complaining, I have used and still attempt to use my Eircode whenever possible. I did say however that the general population have not adopted this system, and that it was a failure in that regard due to poor design, imo.

No that's true, we don't know all the postcodes. However, I can tell you from my experience of growing up there that we know our own local one, then as we grow we expand to a knowledge of the surrounding ones, and so on.

So when I lived in Villeurbanne (69100), and I saw that a particular scented candle shop was in 69003, I knew whereabouts that was. If I saw an ad for a scented candle shop in 69300, I knew I would have to facture in the use of transport to get there. When looking at a guide book for campsites in France, I take note of the postcodes. When I see a cluster with the same postcodes, I know that they're all in the one area, more than likely a town/village I've selected, and that this one with a slightly different postcode is likely to be a bit out of the way.

It's great for me, as I like and use the internet.
As I mentioned a lot of my local area neighbours do not, and they do not necessarily have a sat-nav either. I don't have one, actually.
Had an easier version of Eircode been designed, it would have been brilliant to help find someone's house for a play date, or the location for the local carpenter, etc... with or without sat nav/mobile phone coverage for internet. (signal/coverage a very real issue here)

It could have used letters related to the name of the county, or area.
For example I'm in Waterford. WA for Waterford city area, and WAC for Waterford County area would have been remembered by everyone pretty much immediately.

I still don't really see your point.

If you see an ad for a service you will have a town name in the ad so you can see the location. No business advertises without their address so you can always get it.

The eircode will just get you to the door.

People can also download local google map to their device, ohones are replacing sat navs, so no coverage issue when out and about.

If you're in emergency services person and somebody gives you a wrong digit in their eircode or it is misheard you are completely screwed and could end up at the wrong end of the country with no intuitive way to check. That's A BIG PROBLEM.

maryishere · 22-10-2017 09:42AM

professore wrote: »

Why is it not free and transparent like other postcode systems?

Because this is Oireland. No wonder some couriers do not use it if they have to pay €25,000. That means they have to sell and do maybe an extra €600,000 worth of deliveries in order to the Eircode chancers.

maryishere · 22-10-2017 09:44AM

professore wrote: »

murpho999 wrote: »

If you're in emergency services person and somebody gives you a wrong digit in their eircode or it is misheard you are completely screwed and could end up at the wrong end of the country. That's A BIG PROBLEM.

That has happened. The fast that they are 7 random letters / digits makes it impossible for most people to remember.

Donal55 · 22-10-2017 09:45AM

maryishere wrote: »

Because this is Oireland. No wonder some couriers do not use it if they have to pay €25,000. That means they have to sell and do maybe an extra €600,000 worth of deliveries in order to the Eircode chancers.

As plenty keep saying its free on google maps.

maryishere · 22-10-2017 09:48AM

Mountainsandh wrote: »

So when I lived in Villeurbanne (69100), and I saw that a particular scented candle shop was in 69003, I knew whereabouts that was. If I saw an ad for a scented candle shop in 69300, I knew I would have to facture in the use of transport to get there. When looking at a guide book for campsites in France, I take note of the postcodes. When I see a cluster with the same postcodes, I know that they're all in the one area, more than likely a town/village I've selected, and that this one with a slightly different postcode is likely to be a bit out of the way.

It could have used letters related to the name of the county, or area.
For example I'm in Waterford. WA for Waterford city area, and WAC for Waterford County area would have been remembered by everyone pretty much immediately.

Correct. A common sense approach would have been too much to ask for.

strawberrie · 22-10-2017 09:49AM

Eircode saved me when heading to a job interview. Google maps brought me to a completely wrong destination, had the Eircode on the letter inviting me to interview. Looked it up and knew exactly where to go.
Got the job too.

professore · 22-10-2017 09:50AM

This guy does an excellent job of pointing out the flaws in eircode and talks about an alternative. I have no affiliation to either or any other system but as someone working in software development and geolocation for many years and having a small bit of cop on he is spot on. Eircode was a clear a case of jobs for the boys as I have seen.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/brianmlucey.wordpress.com/2015/04/14/13-things-that-are-wrong-with-eircode/amp/

professore · 22-10-2017 09:52AM

Donal55 wrote: »

maryishere wrote: »

Because this is Oireland. No wonder some couriers do not use it if they have to pay €25,000. That means they have to sell and do maybe an extra €600,000 worth of deliveries in order to the Eircode chancers.

As plenty keep saying its free on google maps.

So all companies can use it for free for any reason? Good to know.

professore · 22-10-2017 09:52AM

/sarcasm

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 22-10-2017 09:56AM

maryishere wrote: »

That has happened. The fast that they are 7 random letters / digits makes it impossible for most people to remember.

You can't remember a phone number so? Don't know your PPS number, bank account etc.?

Just keep looking for faults and forget about just using the thing so it becomes second nature to people. My 5 year old grandchild will tell you her Eircode for goodness sake.

Mary, there is so much wrong with everything in this country (according to you) I wonder how we function as a nation at all.

Alltherage · 22-10-2017 09:59AM

Reading the thread it sounds like the system was built to be sold to google, if they didn't integrate it then there would have been no point in bothering. They did though so there you have it.

I know people wouldn't be happy about the idea of the gov spending money to duplicate what's already available but we cant' have emergency services dependant on google maps to provide them with a way of finding things. Google are unlikely to pull the plug on the maps service any time soon but forever is a very long time.

maryishere · 22-10-2017 10:02AM

PandaPoo wrote: »

for some reason I thought you could use the site and search X amount of times and then you had to pay. 15 searches a day apparently!

As someone else said, nobody is using Eircode, and why should they? It’s deliberately designed to be obscure, opaque and incapable of rational understanding. It consists of digits and letters that give no clue as to the location they represent. Going by the Eircode, your house and my house might as well be on Mars and Neptune even though we live next door to each other and that’s not by chance. By its very nature, it’s random, though the reasons for that are still a bit ambiguous. Proponents of Eircode explain that you can’t have a sequential list of numbers or digits because then it would be impossible to go back and insert a new code if somebody happened to build a house between yours and mine. (Not that we’d ever allow a thing like that to happen).

This argument is known in the trade as bollocks. Of course a code could have been devised to allow such a thing to occur, over and over if necessary. They just didn’t want it that way.

But why? you must be wondering. Why couldn’t we just go out and assign grid references to every single location on the face of the earth, or at least on our little patch of it? Wouldn’t that identify uniquely exactly where your house is, no matter how remote, and no matter how many people with the same surname live near you?

Well, yes, but that would be logical and this, after all, is Ireland. It wouldn’t do to simply do the logical thing when instead you could set up a working group to study the problem. Of course, the working group would have to be broadly based, so it would be necessary to have meetings all over the country, meetings people would have to drive to and claim expenses for. There would have to be overnights, obviously, and fact-finding trips to see how they do it in other countries. Many fact-finding trips to foreign countries. Very important.

Then there would have to be focus groups, overseen by a high-powered task force consisting of senior civil servants who naturally would have to attend all the meetings around the country and abroad.

But the most important thing of all would be to make sure that none of the focus groups or the task force contained even a single person with the technical skills to analyse the problem or to challenge the claims of contractors looking for the work.

The next stage in the Irish system is to draw up a request for proposals, which must be kept as vague as possible. It’s very important at this stage to ensure that at least half the entire budget has already been used up and that the Minister has no politically-viable way of backing out. From now on, your Minister becomes a mouthpiece who will defend everything you do, to avoid looking like a fool. Once you achieve this, you are untouchable, and if you happen to be a mid-ranking civil servant you can look forward to a promotion no matter how badly the project fails.

After the request for proposals comes the selection of the consultant. Again, at this stage it’s very important to make sure that nobody on the selection team has the slightest understanding of what the technical issues are. All competent people in your department must be kept well away from this critical process. On no account permit scientists, engineers or information technology specialists anywhere near this phase. They will destroy all your hard work with well-researched facts and logical objections.

The consultant will now prepare a schedule of deadlines which you must follow. Each of these deadlines involves your team signing off on a crucially-important step in the development process. When a deadline approaches and your team is under pressure, the consultant will offer to supply technical support at a rate of, let’s say, €3,000 per day per adviser. This will help your team to meet the deadline and sign off on the stage they still don’t understand.

Once this process is complete, your Minister is now embedded in it up to his neck, with no way out. Don’t worry if you have now exceeded your budget by 50% or more. This is a good thing. Your path to Secretary General is looking smoother by the day.

Meanwhile, these inconvenient chaps in Goggle or Geegaw or Smeegle or whatever it calls itself have just come up with a map thingy. And it’s free, which doesn’t fit in with your plan at all.

And so, you send your Minister out to talk on the radio, on a show where RTE obligingly provide a presenter who has not the slightest idea what Goggle or Grumble or Gaggle actually does, and your Minister gets a clear run to talk utter bollocks for fifteen minutes because the eminent journalist fails to ask him the single most important question, which is this:

: why did Eircode cost 50 million?

Mountainsandh · 22-10-2017 10:03AM

murpho999 wrote: »

Mountainsandh wrote: »

I still don't really see your point.

If you see an ad for a service you will have a town name in the ad so you can see the location. No business advertises without their address so you can always get it.

The eircode will just get you to the door.

People can also download local google map to their device, ohones are replacing sat navs, so no coverage issue when out and about.

Your entire post is still based on the premise that people are technologically competent.

The address thing is fine and good, but if I say to you that you can get your coal in Shandon, Dungarvan, will you know straightaway where it is ? Forget about checking it out online for a minute.

You know this thing about downloading a map in advance ? I'm 45, talking to you on boards so pretty technologically competent right ? I have internet at home so I can download something prior to a trip, and I've a certain internet allowance on my phone, don't exactly know how much tbh. I only found out about downloading route prior to a trip 2 weeks ago because I had to go somewhere I needed directions, Mr M showed me.

You can't assume people are comfortable with technology to the level that is required for Eircode to be relevant in their lives. When my daughter is the age I am now of course it won't be a problem; right now, there's a whole swath of the population for whom Eircodes are obscure. Better, more consumer oriented design could have ensured that Eircodes were useful on some basic level for everyone.
For example if Eircodes gave someone a slightly more pointed indication of whereabouts Shandon is in Dungarvan, even before any brilliant technological accuracy, it's pretty likely that the coal guy might have started to include it in their address.

I checked the ads in my local papers, I can recheck for accuracy, but at a quick glance I have seen none with an Eircode.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 22-10-2017 10:06AM

maryishere wrote: »

As someone else said, Nobody is using Eircode....

I gave up after that.

That 'some else' was wrong. Many people are using it.

Sorry I couldn't face the rest of the rant, as the opening premise was so removed from reality.

maryishere · 22-10-2017 10:06AM

Alltherage wrote: »

Google are unlikely to pull the plug on the maps service any time soon but

Do not worry, they will find a way of charging for it...

maryishere · 22-10-2017 10:08AM

Jaylah Low Kidnapper wrote: »

I gave up after that.

That 'some else' was wrong. Many people are using it.

Sorry I couldn't face the rest of the rant, as the opening premise was so removed from reality.

Boll**. As someone else said,

Mountainsandh wrote: »

murpho999 wrote: »

I checked the ads in my local papers, I can recheck for accuracy, but at a quick glance I have seen none with an Eircode.

theoldbreed · 22-10-2017 10:09AM

I live in the countryside, house is tricky to find. When Eircode came out I was delighted and started using it...we live on a cul de sac laneway. Turns out we all have the same Eircode down here, about five of us. How's that any good? People can get to the lane but can't find the correct house. Doesn't make sense and it's very frustrating.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 22-10-2017 10:12AM

maryishere wrote: »

Boll**. As someone else said....

Mary, as usual you are latching on to one post and running with it. Look at the link provided that showed to actual amount of use being made of it. Geez, someone looked at small ads and saw no codes. Big deal. It is being used. People are finding locations with it every day. Deliveries are, at last, finding their way to rural addresses, ambulances are finding places quicker.

Come on!

Donal55 · 22-10-2017 10:13AM

theoldbreed wrote: »

I live in the countryside, house is tricky to find. When Eircode came out I was delighted and started using it...we live on a cul de sac laneway. Turns out we all have the same Eircode down here, about five of us. How's that any good? People can get to the lane but can't find the correct house. Doesn't make sense and it's very frustrating.

There is a facility on the eircode website itself where you can identify any flaws or mistakes.

Sofiztikated · 22-10-2017 10:20AM

maryishere wrote: »

professore wrote: »

That has happened. The fast that they are 7 random letters / digits makes it impossible for most people to remember.

My phone number is 10 digits long. Completely random. Well ****, I can remember it.

My PPS number is 8 digits long, random string of numbers with a letter at the end. Makes no sense to me, my who family has different ones. Why couldn't it be the same with a different letter? (/s)

It's 7 digits. Does it matter a **** if it's random or not? 7 digits that relates to your front door.

My 75 year old mother knows hers. She has it written beside the house phone, just in case. She lives in a house, in a town, that people find impossible to find.

****ing whinging for the sake of whinging, about remembering them. "I'm far too busy and important to remember 7 digits" bolix that just means "I don't like change."

Eircode - Why did they bother?

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