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#MeToo has caught on, good thing or bad thing ?

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Comments

  • #182
    atticu
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭atticu


    up for anything wrote: »
    Yeah, it was run from within the Magdalene Laundries until they were closed down. Who knows where the matriarchal elite hide now to do their dirty work.

    Come back to me when you have lived in a patriarchal society, and we can discuss things in a more informed way.


  • #183
    Crea
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,049 ✭✭✭Crea


    snowflaker wrote: »
    Is whistling at women ok???

    Use this rule of thumb : don't say anything to a woman that you wouldn't want a big butch guy saying to you in prison.


  • #184
    AnneFrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭AnneFrank


    __..__ wrote: »
    I'm always looking at boobs. 99% of the time they aren't even nice boobs, but I do find myself involuntarily checking them to see if they are worth it. I think it's just built into men.
    For instance I hate small boobs and end up staring at small boobs thinking where are they.
    Other lads I know would hate big boobs and would stare at big boobs saying yuck.
    It's not something men are aware of. And when women comment to.men on other women's looks it is harsh, even when they are pretending to pay compliments to.other women's looks there is a lot going on below the surface that everyone is aware of but nobody says.

    What's wrong with small boobs? #smallboobs


  • #185
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.
    Welcome to the world of gender fascism. And it is worse it is getting. This repellent creep Weinstein and now #metoo has hastened its break from cover and social "studies" workshops in US universities. Using genuine victims and victimhood as politic.

    Last week I read of yer man David Schwimmer from Friends who was being interviewed by a woman journalist and he suggested because the hotel lobby was too loud that they go up to his room, but that he asked her if she'd like a chaperone. She described this as sensitive to her needs and all that. A chaperone FFS. Where once Suffragettes fought for women to be independent free individuals with agency uncosseted by men because of their gender, their "feminist" great granddaughters seem hellbent on going back to a Victorian notion of women as emotionally weak, delicate creatures in near constant need of protection by and from men and the world. What a crazy turnaround. Caveat to that of course is their same great granddaughters want to have their cake and eat it too.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #186
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    snowflaker wrote: »
    Is whistling at women ok???

    Is the woman a border collie, or other breed of canine? If so, it's probably ok.


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  • #187
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Where once Suffragettes fought for women to be independent free individuals with agency uncosseted by men because of their gender, their "feminist" great granddaughters seem hellbent on going back to a Victorian notion of women as emotionally weak, delicate creatures in near constant need of protection by and from men and the world. What a crazy turnaround. Caveat to that of course is their same great granddaughters want to have their cake and eat it too.

    No, women are not going back to emotionally weak, delicate creatures, but as we have seen recently some men will attempt to push themselves on women and if they are rich and powerful enough will get away with it.

    By offering a chaperone Schwimmer was both putting her mind at ease that she would not be in any danger, and covering himself from any accusations of impropriety.

    Instead of wringing your hands about women 'going back to a Victorian notion' why aren't you getting bent out of shape about the fact that in the 21st century men can't be trusted to keep their hands to themselves and need a chaperone to keep an eye on them?

    Seriously, why 'women are hysterical' and not 'dudes: stop fondling women!'?


  • #188
    anewme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,145 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    kylith wrote: »

    By offering a chaperone Schwimmer was both putting her mind at ease that she would not be in any danger, and covering himself from any accusations of impropriety

    I immediately thought this was his intention.


  • #189
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Donal55


    kylith wrote: »
    No, women are not going back to emotionally weak, delicate creatures, but as we have seen recently some men will attempt to push themselves on women and if they are rich and powerful enough will get away with it.

    By offering a chaperone Schwimmer was both putting her mind at ease that she would not be in any danger, and covering himself from any accusations of impropriety.

    Instead of wringing your hands about women 'going back to a Victorian notion' why aren't you getting bent out of shape about the fact that in the 21st century men can't be trusted to keep their hands to themselves and need a chaperone to keep an eye on them?

    Seriously, why 'women are hysterical' and not 'dudes: stop fondling women!'?

    Its sad when meeting a woman that you"d need a witness to cover you from accusations of impropriety.


  • #190
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Donal55 wrote: »
    Its sad when meeting a woman that you"d need a witness to cover you from accusations of impropriety.

    It's sad when meeting a man that you need a guardian in case he attacks you.


  • #191
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    __..__ wrote: »
    George Colossal Tomato wrote: »
    It will get to a stage soon where people will feel there is something wrong with them if they haven't been raped or sexually assaulted.

    I think we are at that stage.
    One of the girls at work said today that she likes getting wolf whistles. Well I couldn't believe the attack on her by the other women . It was savage. Poor girl will never say that again I can tell you.

    I think it's at least 20 years since I saw a girl being wolf whistled. Does this still happen? If so why have I never seen it?


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  • #192
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Donal55


    kylith wrote: »
    It's sad when meeting a man that you need a guardian in case he attacks you.


    Jeez, if life is like that well then perhaps they shouldn't leave the house. This isn't Mad Max territory. What do all those women do that go to work and queue for buses, trains, trams etc.

    Or that triage nurse I met yesterday on her own when I went to A & E.


  • #193
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    atticu wrote: »
    up for anything wrote: »
    Yeah, it was run from within the Magdalene Laundries until they were closed down. Who knows where the matriarchal elite hide now to do their dirty work.

    Come back to me when you have lived in a patriarchal society, and we can discuss things in a more informed way.

    You lost me at patriarchal. Come back to me when you can discuss topics free of dogmatic religious add ideological belief systems.


  • #194
    Corruptedmorals
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,195 ✭✭✭Corruptedmorals


    I think it's a good thing if for no other reason than during the week, former world and Olympic champion gymnast McKayla Maroney used it to share her story of years of sexual abuse. The man she named, Larry Nassar, is the former US team doctor who is awaiting trial after more than 140 women came forward in the last year. During his 30 year approx career he would have had access to thousands of gymnasts.

    McKayla is the most recent and the most high-profile by far of any of his victims. Media have ran with the story to blacken his name further. Hopefully it will inspire more to come forward.


  • #195
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    Seems to me that nearly every male celebrity is being accused of rape these days. Maybe they are all rapists but I seriously doubt it. It was like all the Trump rape accusations that mysteriously disappeared.

    Accuse a celebrity of rape = instant cash and fame. Who cares if you destroy their lives in the process.

    You now have the likes of Justin Bieber paying for sex and Ronaldo paying for children complete with contracts.

    Where were all these "brave" actresses for years who looked the other way when Weinstein continued abusing women? And why are only male actors being singled out? The females knew much better what was actually going on and did nothing. They should be ashamed jumping on the bandwagon too. They should have stood up at the time.

    And FOR SURE there is a lot more going on in Hollywood, like the paedophile ring Elijah Wood alluded to a few years ago is an open secret. Why don't these "brave" hypocrites expose that?

    I applaud the lady that exposed Weinstein. She has true courage. These MeToo idiots? Not so much.


  • #196
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    Donal55 wrote: »
    Jeez, if life is like that well then perhaps they shouldn't leave the house. This isn't Mad Max territory. What do all those women do that go to work and queue for buses, trains, trams etc.

    Or that triage nurse I met yesterday on her own when I went to A & E.

    Have you not been paying attention?

    We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
    We get groped in pubs.
    We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
    We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
    Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
    Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
    Men we don't know are threats
    Men we do know are even bigger threats
    The single biggest threat to women is men


  • #197
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    kylith wrote: »
    No, women are not going back to emotionally weak, delicate creatures,
    I didn't say they were. I did say that's increasingly the portrayal of women.
    but as we have seen recently some men will attempt to push themselves on women and if they are rich and powerful enough will get away with it.
    Some men will, yes.
    By offering a chaperone Schwimmer was both putting her mind at ease that she would not be in any danger, and covering himself from any accusations of impropriety.
    I suspect the latter more than the former. Plus he was promoting a film about sexual assault at the time so...
    Instead of wringing your hands about women 'going back to a Victorian notion' why aren't you getting bent out of shape about the fact that in the 21st century men can't be trusted to keep their hands to themselves and need a chaperone to keep an eye on them?

    Seriously, why 'women are hysterical' and not 'dudes: stop fondling women!'?
    More of the same polarised rhetoric that separates the genders and again I didn't make a distinction between the two. Oh and both are "Victorian" viewpoints. Indeed the idea that women are vulnerable/hysterical and men are sexually predatory are givens in any patriarchal society you care to mention, past and present. Ironic that current feminism usually parrots the same viewpoint. Though in the end with this current rhetoric it always boils down to women are always victims and it's always men's fault. And of course men's responsibility to fix things.

    As for #MeToo. Anything that supports actual victims of any crime in coming forward is to be lauded. I'm wary of media and Hollywood types promoting it though. I also worry that it's all surface twitter noise and little if anything will change. As I said on my very first post when the Weinstein wanker story broke
    Wibbs wrote: »
    They[Hollywood types] also tend to be attention junkies so I expect much outrage for a time, each fighting over twitter to be the most supportive/victimised.
    Colour me Nostradamus.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #198
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,556 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    Wibbs wrote: »
    Welcome to the world of gender fascism. And it is worse it is getting. This repellent creep Weinstein and now #metoo has hastened its break from cover and social "studies" workshops in US universities. Using genuine victims and victimhood as politic.

    Last week I read of yer man David Schwimmer from Friends who was being interviewed by a woman journalist and he suggested because the hotel lobby was too loud that they go up to his room, but that he asked her if she'd like a chaperone. She described this as sensitive to her needs and all that. A chaperone FFS. Where once Suffragettes fought for women to be independent free individuals with agency uncosseted by men because of their gender, their "feminist" great granddaughters seem hellbent on going back to a Victorian notion of women as emotionally weak, delicate creatures in near constant need of protection by and from men and the world. What a crazy turnaround. Caveat to that of course is their same great granddaughters want to have their cake and eat it too.

    I presume the chaperone wasn't male as that would have doubled the "threat" but then what if the chaperone also felt threatened by him? Probably should start training dogs for this sort of thing.


  • #199
    anewme
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,145 ✭✭✭✭anewme


    kylith wrote: »
    It's sad when meeting a man that you need a guardian in case he attacks you.

    And it's come from experiences.....without derailing the thread, how did that monster Weinstein get away with it for so long?

    A friend has taken up coaching a kids sports team.

    The legalities around it are so intricate, he said he was sorry he bothered.

    Yet when he thought about it, the rules were there to protect parties.

    I really don't see anything wrong with what David Schwimmer did. Good practice.


  • #200
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    I wonder at this stage if there are any women in the Western world who don't believe all men are animals and are struggling all day not to rape every woman they see. Lately I am extremely careful putting myself in any situation where I'm alone with a woman. It is handing her a loaded gun to ruin your life with no repercussions. It's sad but it is what society has come to.


  • #201
    Icemancometh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 873 ✭✭✭Icemancometh


    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I presume the chaperone wasn't male as that would have doubled the "threat" but then what if the chaperone also felt threatened by him? Probably should start training dogs for this sort of thing.

    I imagine the chaperone was for Schwimmer's benefit.


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  • #202
    Outlaw Pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,423 ✭✭✭✭Outlaw Pete


    kylith wrote: »
    Instead of wringing your hands about women 'going back to a Victorian notion' why aren't you getting bent out of shape about the fact that in the 21st century men can't be trusted to keep their hands to themselves and need a chaperone to keep an eye on them?

    *Some* men.


  • #203
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    kylith wrote: »
    Donal55 wrote: »
    Jeez, if life is like that well then perhaps they shouldn't leave the house. This isn't Mad Max territory. What do all those women do that go to work and queue for buses, trains, trams etc.

    Or that triage nurse I met yesterday on her own when I went to A & E.

    Have you not been paying attention?

    We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
    We get groped in pubs.
    We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
    We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
    Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
    Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
    Men we don't know are threats
    Men we do know are even bigger threats
    The single biggest threat to women is men

    What a way to live your life. I genuinely feel sorry for you. Do you not have any friends who will tell the man to **** off? Can you not tell him to **** off yourself? Scream at him? Learn some self defence moves?

    You think men don't have many of the same threats as you do and are much more likely to be physically assaulted than you are?

    I'm not making light of your points but short of killing every man out there I don't see what your solution is. Also women regularly assault each other too.


  • #204
    professore
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,849 ✭✭✭professore


    Icemancometh wrote: »
    Mickeroo wrote: »
    I presume the chaperone wasn't male as that would have doubled the "threat" but then what if the chaperone also felt threatened by him? Probably should start training dogs for this sort of thing.

    I imagine the chaperone was for Schwimmer's benefit.

    I'm sure Weinstein could have had any number of female chaperones aiding and abetting him at the height of his power. In fact by saying nothing all these years, he actually did.


  • #205
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    kylith wrote: »
    Have you not been paying attention?

    We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
    We get groped in pubs.
    We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
    We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
    Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
    Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
    Men we don't know are threats
    Men we do know are even bigger threats
    The single biggest threat to women is men
    Ok we get it. Women™ are under a near constant barrage of threats from Men™. Right so, how do you think you change that? More nonsense like the campaigns that tell men to stop other men from raping?* More daft hashtag Arsebook campaigns that will do precisely nothing and will be off the front page and public consciousness within the month. What's your solution?




    *It's not as if men don't see rapists as the worst scum in the world already. Even the lowest of the low among the prison population will attack and even kill rapists among them.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #206
    Macmillan150
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭Macmillan150


    Is there ANY woman here who hasn't been approached inappropriately in some way. The #metoo is to show that this is so so widespread. Men don't believe it unless it has happened to them. But men still don't believe it. The " not all men" thing is grand to hide behind and many men believe this stuff is done by only a few men. But it is done by many many many men.
    Does my husband or dad know that I was 10 the first time a man grabbed my crotch ( or a thousand other incidences that happened along the way). No, because women do not talk about it. Go ask your girlfriends to list out all the times they were touched when they didn't want to be when and I'm sure they will tell you. But I'm betting they will tell you loads but edit out the really bad things, the things that hurt too much to mention, the ones that can't be just tutted away. I didn't join the metoo thing on my public profiles because what's the point. Men don't think there's a problem. If there's no problem there's no need for s solution.


  • #207
    kylith
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,741 ✭✭✭✭kylith


    professore wrote: »
    What a way to live your life. I genuinely feel sorry for you. Do you not have any friends who will tell the man to **** off? Can you not tell him to **** off yourself? Scream at him? Learn some self defence moves?.
    See above reactions to a woman telling the man who whistled at her to f off.

    If we say nothing we 'should have said something'. If we say something then we're lying or overreacting.
    professore wrote: »
    You think men don't have many of the same threats as you do and are much more likely to be physically assaulted than you are? .
    Yes, men get physically assaulted, but we're not talking about that right now.
    professore wrote: »
    I'm not making light of your points but short of killing every man out there I don't see what your solution is.
    Well, there is the teaching about consent in sex-ed classes, but a lot of people, mainly men, seem to be against that.

    In the US there's an ongoing trend of girls being sent home from school to change clothes because their shorts are 'distracting the boys'. Teaching boys not to stare at girls could be an idea there.

    We could stop laughing off men saying distasteful things about women as 'locker room talk'.

    We could stop using the phrase 'boys will be boys' when they are being inappropriate, since it excuses them from having any responsibility for their actions.


  • #208
    neonsofa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭neonsofa


    professore wrote: »
    What a way to live your life. I genuinely feel sorry for you. Do you not have any friends who will tell the man to **** off? Can you not tell him to **** off yourself? Scream at him? Learn some self defence moves?

    You think men don't have many of the same threats as you do and are much more likely to be physically assaulted than you are?

    I'm not making light of your points but short of killing every man out there I don't see what your solution is. Also women regularly assault each other too.

    I've had a group of men (in their 20s id say) walk behind me late at night and they actually discussed loudly how a "woman like her" shouldn't be out walking in the dark cause "men would be all over that". They found this hilarious. Discussed how if I was their "moth" they wouldn't even let me out in the daytime. All this kind of stuff. While I was alone and they were in a group behind me. They were clearly saying it loud enough for me to hear. God knows why, but they were getting some sort of entertainment from it. Was I supposed to turn around and tell them to **** off? Would they have accepted that and said "oh right sorry for that". Me against 7 or 8 men who were discussing me in that way? Sometimes you do have to just put safety first and hope they will go away and keep the key in your hand in case they don't. I get that the above example is more than just one man wolf whistling but sometimes one man can feel just as intimidating as a group, especially if they are being physical because you just don't know if It will escalate. It depends on the context.
    And for what it's worth I personally don't mind the odd wolf whistle but that's not really the point I guess.


  • #209
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Donal55


    kylith wrote: »
    Have you not been paying attention?

    We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
    We get groped in pubs.
    We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
    We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
    Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
    Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
    Men we don't know are threats
    Men we do know are even bigger threats
    The single biggest threat to women is men

    Maybe you're just unlucky but as a man, married with four girls from late 20s to late teens, I can categorically say NONE of the above has happened to them.


  • #210
    neonsofa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,476 ✭✭✭neonsofa


    Donal55 wrote: »
    Maybe you're just unlucky but as a man, married with four girls from late 20s to late teens, I can categorically say NONE of the above has happened to them.

    My dad doesn't know of all the times men have harassed or intimidated me.


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  • #211
    RacoonQueen
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 20,368 Mod ✭✭✭✭RacoonQueen


    kylith wrote: »
    Have you not been paying attention?

    We get whistled and shouted at in the street.
    We get groped in pubs.
    We get cornered by men who will not take no for an answer, or who get aggressive when rejected.
    We have it drummed into us from the time we hit puberty: 'don't be alone with a man'
    Every man on a quiet street is a potential threat
    Every man walking behind us could be a rapist
    Men we don't know are threats
    Men we do know are even bigger threats
    The single biggest threat to women is men

    We have just met the end of procreation.


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