Sexual Assault ?

Heckler · 20-10-2017 01:28AM #1

I saw a vlog yesterday about a 17 year old at the time (now 18/19 or) and her experience.

She went to a party, got wasted drunk and ended up blowing a guy. This was caught on camera and passed around.

She reckons this was sexual assault and has a devastating effect a year later.

She blacked out and has no memory of about a 6 hour span.

Her only evidence of assault is her performing oral sex.

Is A drunk woman willing to perform sex acts on me a crime ? If so guilty. Vice versa !

20-10-2017 01:30AM

Heckler wrote: »

I saw a vlog yesterday about a 17 year old at the time (now 18/19 or) and her experience.

She went to a party, got wasted drunk and ended up blowing a guy. This was caught on camera and passed around.

She reckons this was sexual assault and has a devastating effect a year later.

She blacked out and has no memory of about a 6 hour span.

Her only evidence of assault is her performing oral sex.

Is there a question here?

Heckler · 20-10-2017 01:31AM

just did

20-10-2017 01:35AM

Just did what? To me it's a statement rather than a question. Have you an opinion about it yourself whatever your question is?

jonon9 · 20-10-2017 01:37AM

It seems that if a women is drunk and performs some sort of sex act its assault but if a man does it his just a horny bastard and a rapist . This opinion is formed from reading and watching the internet from the last 2-5 years.

What Im trying to say is you aint gonna get a straight answer.

Noveight · 20-10-2017 01:42AM

Consent can be a tricky one, it's not always as straightforward as we'd all like it to be. Add in drink/drunkenness and it's a recipe for disaster.

Heckler · 20-10-2017 01:43AM

Is A drunk woman willing to perform sex acts on me a crime ? If so guilty. Vice versa !

368100 wrote: »

Is there a question here?

Sorry. The last part of my post seemed not to turn up.

jonon9 · 20-10-2017 01:46AM

Heckler wrote: »

Is A drunk woman willing to perform sex acts on me a crime ? If so guilty. Vice versa !

Sorry. The last part of my post seemed not to turn up.

Its only a crime when a drunk woman shouts 'Wolf' same for a man but that seems to fall on deaf ears somewhat.

20-10-2017 02:03AM

Heckler wrote: »

Is A drunk woman willing to perform sex acts on me a crime ? If so guilty. Vice versa !

Sorry. The last part of my post seemed not to turn up.

Without seeing the video and working on the assumption that theres no evidence that she was forced into it then I don't see how her claim stands up.

If her drink was spiked it might be a different matter but to choose to get wasted, blow a guy and then cry that it was sexual assault is ridiculous and I hope whatever authority she's reported it to charge her for false allegations. At least there's video evidence to prove what happened.

Obviously not condoning genuine cases of sexual assault but I've seen first hand the damage false claims can have. A friend of mine was accused of rape by a girl with special needs who just took a fancy to him as he was friendly to her and would chat from time to time. He had an awful time of it, eventually she admitted she made it up but he feels although he was cleared in full it still affects him. Maybe just his perception but he feels people still think "what if he did". This is years ago, horrible thing that I wouldn't wish on anyone.

NinetyTwoTeam · 20-10-2017 02:38AM

When you mature a bit you'll realize that taking advantage of a drunk girl is scummy. I dunno about assault, each situation is different but really you should make sure a girl is sober enough to consent.

That said, without alcohol I dunno would anyone get laid in this country, many women in Ireland still seem very inhibited and prudish when sober and nearly seem to only give themselves permission to act on their desires/accept advances from men when booze is on board. But that doesn't mean that they should be preyed on while drunk, and I can't imagine it feels good to know you've taken advantage of someone like that. I'm glad to see that men who are doing stuff like that are getting called out so that young men will hopefully be aware how unacceptable it is.

And I think filming someone else in a sex act without their consent and distributing it should be an offense. That's an awful thing to do, the man won't get any criticism while the woman is ruthlessly slutshamed.

derfderf · 20-10-2017 02:47AM

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

When you mature a bit you'll realize that taking advantage of a drunk girl is scummy. I dunno about assault, each situation is different but really you should make sure a girl is sober enough to consent.

That said, without alcohol I dunno would anyone get laid in this country, many women in Ireland still seem very inhibited and prudish when sober and nearly seem to only give themselves permission to act on their desires/accept advances from men when booze is on board. But that doesn't mean that they should be preyed on while drunk, and I can't imagine it feels good to know you've taken advantage of someone like that. I'm glad to see that men who are doing stuff like that are getting called out so that young men will hopefully be aware how unacceptable it is.

And I think filming someone else in a sex act without their consent and distributing it should be an offense. That's an awful thing to do, the man won't get any criticism while the woman is ruthlessly slutshamed.

Women get slutshamed for the exact same reason you think it's bad form for a bloke to take advantage of a drunk girl (it is), but don't mention it happening the other way around.

And yes, it does happen. I know two blokes paying maintenance for children, and they have no recollection of being at the conception.

Rubberchikken · 20-10-2017 02:54AM

Anyone who takes advantage of a drunk girl or so an is the lowest of the low.
But any woman who claims rape and later retracts it or is found to be lying should be jailed.
No one comes out of these things looking good.

20-10-2017 02:58AM

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

And I think filming someone else in a sex act without their consent and distributing it should be an offense. That's an awful thing to do, the man won't get any criticism while the woman is ruthlessly slutshamed.

^^^ What he said^^^

Without seeing, or wanting to see, the video, I'm not sure "assault" is the right word. Assuming the male partner had no active knowledge or involvement of the filming, then he's hardly to blame. The individual who made the video and distributed it is bit of a toerag tbh though. Not that it makes a difference to the outcome, but did they think they were in a private bedroom or were they just blatantly doing in front of other party-goers on the kitchen floor? There's no link to a published news story about this, but either way the invasion of privacy and personal space is not good,

I don't know anything about these two particular people, but it's always surprising in other similar cases that the man is never depicted as somehow violated or just as much the victim as the girl. What if further down the line he is trying to start a serious relationship with a partner who sees this video? Why is the man in these things always a stud who scores free pints from his mates while the girl is sneered at?

eagle eye · 20-10-2017 03:11AM

A sober guy taking advantage of a drunk woman is wrong. A drunk guy having sex with a drunk woman is different though. If both are drunk then I don't think it's fair to blame the male.

Either way the girl has to have a large part of the responsibility for letting herself get into that condition.

Obviously I'm not talking about cases where a drink has been spiked. In those cases the person who has spiked the drink should do big time imo because this is clearly pre-meditated.

NinetyTwoTeam · 20-10-2017 03:22AM

derfderf wrote: »

Women get slutshamed for the exact same reason you think it's bad form for a bloke to take advantage of a drunk girl (it is), but don't mention it happening the other way around.

And yes, it does happen. I know two blokes paying maintenance for children, and they have no recollection of being at the conception.

I didn't mention it because that's not what happened in this instance, you're just engaging in whataboutery now.

But really you have two mates where the women overpowered them, forced them to become erect, knocked the condom out of their hand, forced themselves onto their junk, and held them down while they rode them until they orgasmed? Well I guess that can happen, but the mechanics of the equipment involved and the strength of a man lend itself to sexual assault being far more likely to man on woman.

If they were really that wasted the soldier would no be able to salute. And if they were able to do that and also achieve orgasm, I don't buy the fact that they were unwilling or unwitting participants. And likewise I don't think a girl who gives a BJ is unwilling or unwitting either, most likely. Oral sex is usually something you perform on someone else, hard to make a case for it being assault then, unless the man penetrated the woman's mouth against her will or when she was unconscious.

What I'm talking about with women being too drunk to consent is more like when they are not fully aware of what's happening or passed out and guys do something to them which happens a lot, and often they feel they can't stop what's happening.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 20-10-2017 03:25AM

Heckler wrote: »

I saw a vlog yesterday about a 17 year old at the time (now 18/19 or) and her experience.

She went to a party, got wasted drunk and ended up blowing a guy. This was caught on camera and passed around.

She reckons this was sexual assault and has a devastating effect a year later.

She blacked out and has no memory of about a 6 hour span.

Her only evidence of assault is her performing oral sex.

Is A drunk woman willing to perform sex acts on me a crime ? If so guilty. Vice versa !

While a woman is not responsible for what happens to her while she is drunk, she is responsible for how much she has to drink.

The bit in bold is a non-consentual act, I'm pretty sure and one that will land most people in trouble.

20-10-2017 06:28AM

Heckler wrote: »

Is A drunk woman willing to perform sex acts on me a crime ? If so guilty. Vice versa !

Heckler wrote: »

just did

Heckler wrote: »

Is A drunk woman willing to perform sex acts on me a crime ? If so guilty. Vice versa !

Sorry. The last part of my post seemed not to turn up.

I think the response you're fishing for is "oh congratulations and well done, obviously it was so good you rushed to tell everyone on AH".

derfderf · 20-10-2017 07:50AM

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

I didn't mention it because that's not what happened in this instance, you're just engaging in whataboutery now.

But really you have two mates where the women overpowered them, forced them to become erect, knocked the condom out of their hand, forced themselves onto their junk, and held them down while they rode them until they orgasmed? Well I guess that can happen, but the mechanics of the equipment involved and the strength of a man lend itself to sexual assault being far more likely to man on woman.

If they were really that wasted the soldier would no be able to salute. And if they were able to do that and also achieve orgasm, I don't buy the fact that they were unwilling or unwitting participants. And likewise I don't think a girl who gives a BJ is unwilling or unwitting either, most likely. Oral sex is usually something you perform on someone else, hard to make a case for it being assault then, unless the man penetrated the woman's mouth against her will or when she was unconscious.

What I'm talking about with women being too drunk to consent is more like when they are not fully aware of what's happening or passed out and guys do something to them which happens a lot, and often they feel they can't stop what's happening.

I didn't say they were forcibly held down and raped. They were so drunk they don't remember it, and people with them said they were so drunk they couldn't speak.
If you meant taking advantage of a passed out girl that's different.

bucketybuck · 20-10-2017 08:15AM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

While a woman is not responsible for what happens to her while she is drunk

Being drunk does not absolve women of all responsibility.

professore · 20-10-2017 08:33AM

Being drunk does not absolve women of all responsibility

According to the George Hook witch hunt group it does. It's "victim blaming". Women are children who can't be held responsible for their own actions. Unless it's in the workplace, where they should be CEO after a 3 year gender studies degree and if they are not it's the patriarchy. Welcome to modern feminism.

professore · 20-10-2017 08:42AM

We have a very immature puritanical attitude to sex and alcohol in this country, like the Brits and Americans. Sex is dirty so we only do it when drunk so we can use the beer goggles excuse. And slut shaming, who does that? Other women. Men don't care unless it's for a long term relationship it's kinda nice if she hasn't ****ed everyone in your social circle, several at a time. A few partners? Who cares. Funnily enough women want guys who **** lots of women. So that's the real reason slut shaming is a thing. It's women doing it.

MayoAreMagic · 20-10-2017 08:58AM

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

What I'm talking about with women being too drunk to consent is more like when they are not fully aware of what's happening or passed out and guys do something to them which happens a lot, and often they feel they can't stop what's happening.

Why though? That clearly isn't the case as regards this thread..
The only person who could potentially be passed out on this thread is in fact the man..

server down · 20-10-2017 09:00AM

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

I didn't mention it because that's not what happened in this instance, you're just engaging in whataboutery now.

But really you have two mates where the women overpowered them, forced them to become erect, knocked the condom out of their hand, forced themselves onto their junk, and held them down while they rode them until they orgasmed? Well I guess that can happen, but the mechanics of the equipment involved and the strength of a man lend itself to sexual assault being far more likely to man on woman.

If they were really that wasted the soldier would no be able to salute. And if they were able to do that and also achieve orgasm, I don't buy the fact that they were unwilling or unwitting participants. And likewise I don't think a girl who gives a BJ is unwilling or unwitting either, most likely. Oral sex is usually something you perform on someone else, hard to make a case for it being assault then, unless the man penetrated the woman's mouth against her will or when she was unconscious.

What I'm talking about with women being too drunk to consent is more like when they are not fully aware of what's happening or passed out and guys do something to them which happens a lot, and often they feel they can't stop what's happening.

He said they had no recollection. He didn’t say they were passed out. Blacking out != passing out.

lazybones32 · 20-10-2017 09:18AM

No sexual assault from what i can see but i thought the gubbiment brought in legislation to address revenge porn, so if the act was conducted in private, the recorder and disseminator could have to answer.

20-10-2017 09:19AM

368100 wrote: »

Without seeing the video and working on the assumption that theres no evidence that she was forced into it then I don't see how her claim stands up.

Since the OP did not link to the video a LOT of things are unclear. But one suggestion I could make is that the "assault" and "devastation a year later" might be related to the self same video evidence?

What I mean is - could it be she consented to oral sex - but did not consent to (or even know she was) being videoed doing it - much less that the video was then distributed freely?

There was a somewhat similar case in the States some time ago:
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/12/16/our-shiny-new-university-of-minnesota-football-scandal/

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

That said, without alcohol I dunno would anyone get laid in this country, many women in Ireland still seem very inhibited and prudish when sober

I can not say that my experience - or that of the people I know - supports your experience here. Have you considered the possibility that the common denominator in your experiences - missing in mine - is you?

In other words is it possible that Irish women are not inhibited or prudish when sober - since that is not my experience - but that Irish women (or at least the ones you have met yourself so far) are generally sexually uninterested in you in particular?

I remember that awful term "frigid" that used to go around the kids in my youth. Girls who would not "shift" some guy were being called "frigid". The guys in question never appeared to notice that A) It was generally only with them the girls in question were being "frigid" and in some consistent numbers and

They did not appear to be displaying this "frigid" attribute with the guys they actually liked.

20-10-2017 09:24AM

I don't know, but whoever recorded it and passed it around is an absolute c*nt.

Though - if you get drunk and you willingly do something, then it is hard to tell if it is sexual assault. Are the people in the room as drunk as her? If so, are they taking advantage then?

Ultimate Seduction · 20-10-2017 09:35AM

The guy getting head could have been sexually assaulted by her? He was too drunk to consent to the suki suki

Drink seems to remove all responsibility, maybe the person who recored it was also drunk and didn't mean to record it and share it..

Where do you draw the line

RoboRat · 20-10-2017 09:36AM

It really depends on whether she was a willing participant and performed the act rather than being semi conscious and not a knowingly willing participant.

If there is a video and it validates that she wasn't in a fit state, then she should take it to the Gardai but if she was a willing participant, then I think the issue is not so much about the sexual consent in this instance, but more the fact that it was videoed and shared without consent. This I feel is something that should be prosecuted, unless of course she was willing to have the act videoed and in a fit state to make that decision.

It's murky waters and this was something that I feel George Hook was alluding too, albeit with zero tact nor consideration. We live in a world with predators; people who take advantage when they can and this is not solely reserved for sexual instances. This is how it is, there is no hiding from this.

If someone goes out and gets plastered, they are increasing the risks of being targeted in the same way as if a jogger elects to run down a dangerous road in favour of something safer. Both are victims, their attackers are not expunged of their crime and the victims are still victims, but both also made the wrong choice and put themselves in danger. Their actions cannot be used as a defence by their attackers but on a personal level, you have a duty of care to yourself to ensure you don't put yourself at risk - if you minimise the risk then you lessen the chances of being a victim.

You can't rely on the law to protect you as they are only able to act after the fact, sure if they catch a rapist and incarcerate them, they may prevent it from happening in future but every sexual predator needs to commit a crime in the first place and then get caught, any many don't or only get caught after committing it many times. This still leaves many victims and the damage is done already.

Personally, I think there is too much of a laissez faire attitude to drink in this country and when someone gets plastered and does something stupid or dangerous, it was the drinks fault. I was party to this attitude when I was younger but I always made sure I had some wits about me. It's only when I got older that I seen in more clarity how it really is.

I don't know how to change that attitude but I just think that people have to be more proactive about their own welfare and never forget that we live in a world with some horrible people.

lazybones32 · 20-10-2017 09:42AM

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

Where do you draw the line

On breakingnews.ie last wednesday (9d ago), they had an article on sexual harrassment in the workplace. The solicitor who was giving the interview said that if telling a sex-related joke makes a person uncomfortable, then that is entering the realm of sexual harrassment.

server down · 20-10-2017 09:59AM

lazybones32 wrote: »

On breakingnews.ie last wednesday (9d ago), they had an article on sexual harrassment in the workplace. The solicitor who was giving the interview said that if telling a sex-related joke makes a person uncomfortable, then that is entering the realm of sexual harrassment.

I would agree with that, although a warning should be given.

server down · 20-10-2017 10:00AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Since the OP did not link to the video a LOT of things are unclear. But one suggestion I could make is that the "assault" and "devastation a year later" might be related to the self same video evidence?

What I mean is - could it be she consented to oral sex - but did not consent to (or even know she was) being videoed doing it - much less that the video was then distributed freely?

There was a somewhat similar case in the States some time ago:
https://freethoughtblogs.com/pharyngula/2016/12/16/our-shiny-new-university-of-minnesota-football-scandal/

I can not say that my experience - or that of the people I know - supports your experience here. Have you considered the possibility that the common denominator in your experiences - missing in mine - is you?

In other words is it possible that Irish women are not inhibited or prudish when sober - since that is not my experience - but that Irish women (or at least the ones you have met yourself so far) are generally sexually uninterested in you in particular?

I remember that awful term "frigid" that used to go around the kids in my youth. Girls who would not "shift" some guy were being called "frigid". The guys in question never appeared to notice that A) It was generally only with them the girls in question were being "frigid" and in some consistent numbers and They did not appear to be displaying this "frigid" attribute with the guys they actually liked.

This is a thinly veiled I'm hot, you're not.

Sexual Assault ?

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