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kk.man · 17-10-2017 08:33PM

leoch wrote: »

Very good cheap animal for someone

+1

CHOPS01 · 19-10-2017 11:51AM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

8 bullocks going this evening. Agent told me 3.80 but that was last week when he called to look at them. Presume no change as he didn't say anything.

Killed out a little heavier than i thought they would!!
Leaving out one lighter lad at 321kg the other 7 averaged 438kg with 3 of them 460kg
3.80 for lighter lad 3.75 for the rest. Happy

Cavanjack · 19-10-2017 12:04PM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

CHOPS01 wrote: »

8 bullocks going this evening. Agent told me 3.80 but that was last week when he called to look at them. Presume no change as he didn't say anything.

Killed out a little heavier than i thought they would!!
Leaving out one lighter lad at 321kg the other 7 averaged 438kg with 3 of them 460kg
3.80 for lighter lad 3.75 for the rest. Happy

Should have given you quoted price should they not or were You docked for over weight?

FarmerDougal · 19-10-2017 12:05PM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

CHOPS01 wrote: »

8 bullocks going this evening. Agent told me 3.80 but that was last week when he called to look at them. Presume no change as he didn't say anything.

Killed out a little heavier than i thought they would!!
Leaving out one lighter lad at 321kg the other 7 averaged 438kg with 3 of them 460kg
3.80 for lighter lad 3.75 for the rest. Happy

Your down 150€ on price agreed??

CHOPS01 · 19-10-2017 12:08PM

Emailed them earlier so waiting on response

CloughCasey1 · 19-10-2017 01:54PM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Emailed them earlier so waiting on response

What was the FS on them?

CHOPS01 · 19-10-2017 02:00PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

What was the FS on them?

O-3+ 321.20

R=3= 405.30
O+4+ 422.60
R-4+ 459
R-4=462.2
O=4+440.6
R=5-415.70
O=4=461.80

CloughCasey1 · 19-10-2017 02:12PM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

O-3+ 321.20

R=3= 405.30
O+4+ 422.60
R-4+ 459
R-4=462.2
O=4+440.6
R=5-415.70
O=4=461.80

They killed out well for ya. Did ya get any deductions for the over-fat ones?

Bass Reeves · 19-10-2017 02:53PM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

What was the FS on them?

O-3+ 321.20

R=3= 405.30
O+4+ 422.60
R-4+ 459
R-4=462.2
O=4+440.6
R=5-415.70
O=4=461.80

Was that a flat price or a base price. 5 of them were over fat. The should have been killed 8-10 weeks ago and would have made as much money.

kk.man · 19-10-2017 03:03PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was that a flat price or a base price. 5 of them were over fat. The should have been killed 8-10 weeks ago and would have made as much money.

Bass is a 4= deemed over fat? (just wondering)

CHOPS01 · 19-10-2017 03:24PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was that a flat price or a base price. 5 of them were over fat. The should have been killed 8-10 weeks ago and would have made as much money.

My understanding was a flat price.Probably could have gone a few weeks ago but they had big frames so i really didn't think they were that kind of weight.
It's all about experience i guess !

Robson99 · 19-10-2017 03:26PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was that a flat price or a base price. 5 of them were over fat. The should have been killed 8-10 weeks ago and would have made as much money.

Would it take 8-10 weeks to go from 3+/4- up to 4+ ?

kk.man · 19-10-2017 04:04PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Was that a flat price or a base price. 5 of them were over fat. The should have been killed 8-10 weeks ago and would have made as much money.

Robson99 wrote: »

Would it take 8-10 weeks to go from 3+/4- up to 4+ ?

They be no set time frame, it depends on many factors, breed, feed etc. I have a FR atm and he is very slow to move up the fat scores!

CloughCasey1 · 19-10-2017 05:25PM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

My understanding was a flat price.Probably could have gone a few weeks ago but they had big frames so i really didn't think they were that kind of weight.
It's all about experience i guess !

If it was flat price you are ok. You would have lost your bollix on the grid. Fight them for the lower price on the lighter lad. They left you a few quid at that rate. I think what Bass is saying that the last number of weeks they would be only putting on fat which if on the grid would crucify ya and flesh weighs better also. Like i keep telling myself when I step off the scales....muscle is heavier than fat!!

CHOPS01 · 19-10-2017 09:36PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

If it was flat price you are ok. You would have lost your bollix on the grid. Fight them for the lower price on the lighter lad. They left you a few quid at that rate. I think what Bass is saying that the last number of weeks they would be only putting on fat which if on the grid would crucify ya and flesh weighs better also. Like i keep telling myself when I step off the scales....muscle is heavier than fat!!

The lighter lad paid 3.80 it was the heavier lads paid 3.75
Will have clarification for the difference in the morning.

Bass Reeves · 19-10-2017 10:13PM

kk.man wrote: »

Bass is a 4= deemed over fat? (just wondering)

At the grade of O= there is a 6c deduction on the 4= grades half your QA gone. At 4+ you lose QA as well.

Robson99 · 19-10-2017 10:14PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

If it was flat price you are ok. You would have lost your bollix on the grid. Fight them for the lower price on the lighter lad. They left you a few quid at that rate. I think what Bass is saying that the last number of weeks they would be only putting on fat which if on the grid would crucify ya and flesh weighs better also. Like i keep telling myself when I step off the scales....muscle is heavier than fat!!

Always like to get them into fat score 4- if I can. I feel that is the point from where feed utilisation starts to reduce from

Bass Reeves · 19-10-2017 10:17PM

Robson99 wrote: »

Would it take 8-10 weeks to go from 3+/4- up to 4+ ?

A lot of it it is more that these cattle should have gone in at least 2 lots. The heavier very well fleshed cattle could have being slaughted at least 8 week ago.

Robson99 · 19-10-2017 10:23PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

A lot of it it is more that these cattle should have gone in at least 2 lots. The heavier very well fleshed cattle could have being slaughted at least 8 week ago.

They could but probably 3 weeks ago would have had them all bar 1at the optimum killing point imo

Bass Reeves · 19-10-2017 10:30PM

CloughCasey1 wrote: »

CHOPS01 wrote: »

My understanding was a flat price.Probably could have gone a few weeks ago but they had big frames so i really didn't think they were that kind of weight.
It's all about experience i guess !

If it was flat price you are ok. You would have lost your bollix on the grid. Fight them for the lower price on the lighter lad. They left you a few quid at that rate. I think what Bass is saying that the last number of weeks they would be only putting on fat which if on the grid would crucify ya and flesh weighs better also. Like i keep telling myself when I step off the scales....muscle is heavier than fat!!

It is more than that they were only putting on fat. You also have the issue with the drop in base and the QA. At a base of 4 euro the last six heavy cattle would all have killed 3=/+ more than likely add QA and the 'R's would have being at 4.12 and the 'O's would being at 3.94/kg. At a guess these cattle were getting 3-4 kg of nuts since then and eating a lot of grass. Over the last 60-70 days did they put on 35-46 kgs of DW and what did it cost 1.3-1.6euro/day. 70-100 euro.

Robson99 · 19-10-2017 10:34PM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It is more than that they were only putting on fat. You also have the issue with the drop in base and the QA. At a base of 4 euro the last six heavy cattle would all have killed 3=/+ more than likely add QA and the 'R's would have being at 4.12 and the 'O's would being at 3.94/kg. At a guess these cattle were getting 3-4 kg of nuts since then and eating a lot of grass. Over the last 60-70 days did they put on 35-46 kgs of DW and what did it cost 1.3-1.6euro/day. 70-100 euro.

The probably went up a grade at least on conformation though which would have been a help

Bass Reeves · 20-10-2017 07:22AM

Robson99 wrote: »

They could but probably 3 weeks ago would have had them all bar 1at the optimum killing point imo

Robson99 wrote: »

The probably went up a grade at least on conformation though which would have been a help

The optimum killing point IMO is when the profit is highest not any particular fat score. I suspect that these cattle have been fed from mid July, if they had been fed from early/mid June they could have been slaughtered before the autumn glut and achieved the same or a higher profit for chops. As well the grass they eat could have been utilised by stores for to keep them out longer and reduce costs.

Cavanjack · 20-10-2017 07:27AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The optimum killing point IMO is when the profit is highest not any particular fat score. I suspect that these cattle have been fed from mid July, if they had been fed from early/mid June they could have been slaughtered before the autumn glut and achieved the same or a higher profit for chops. As well the grass they eat could have been utilised by stores for to keep them out longer and reduce costs.

It's hard to win. Stores were hard bought 8 weeks ago.

CHOPS01 · 20-10-2017 10:11AM

Bass Reeves wrote: »

The optimum killing point IMO is when the profit is highest not any particular fat score. I suspect that these cattle have been fed from mid July, if they had been fed from early/mid June they could have been slaughtered before the autumn glut and achieved the same or a higher profit for chops. As well the grass they eat could have been utilised by stores for to keep them out longer and reduce costs.

Ah i'm not that foolish.Fed for 3 weeks before they went. First 10 days 3kg of 16% beef nut and 4.5kg for the remaining 10 days.I know in hindsight they probably didn't need it but ground was gone a bit sh1tty and didn't want them going backwards.
Last winter they got plenty of silage and 2.5kg of a mix of the same beef nut and rolled barley from about December 1st to to start of April.
I'm happy enough they left money behind.

Bass Reeves · 20-10-2017 10:20AM

Cavanjack wrote: »

It's hard to win. Stores were hard bought 8 weeks ago.

I bought light stores 8-10 weeks ago they are 50+ kgs heavier weight put on with grass alone. What might have sem expensive then is anot expensive any longer. As well taking his 5 cattle taht were over fat if killed 40-50 kgs lighter it amounts to 200-250kgs. In 8-9 cattle of this weight you are giving the factory's a virtual free animal. By lads killing cattle at optimum profit point we can take maybe 20K cattle out of the kill in reality.

An overall reduction of even 5kgs on the steer kill will be as good as exporting 20k cattle. As well I am guessing that Chops cattle were of dairy breeding so they would have taken a while to go over fat. I also like to know were they manualyygraded or machine graded.

Panch18 · 20-10-2017 10:44AM

I would say they should have gone a month ago without feeding - I'd never put meal into Herefords at this stage in the year. In fact all our cattle are killed off grass only

But tis easy tell someone else what to do with the benefit of hindsight. As long as you made money and are happy with it chops that's the main thing

CHOPS01 · 20-10-2017 11:17AM

Confirmed.5c deducted for being over weight.

Bass Reeves · 20-10-2017 12:52PM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

Ah i'm not that foolish.Fed for 3 weeks before they went. First 10 days 3kg of 16% beef nut and 4.5kg for the remaining 10 days.I know in hindsight they probably didn't need it but ground was gone a bit sh1tty and didn't want them going backwards.
Last winter they got plenty of silage and 2.5kg of a mix of the same beef nut and rolled barley from about December 1st to to start of April.
I'm happy enough they left money behind.

In genera when feeding ration it takes cattle 12-18 days to get moving on it. Howver with the way weather detrioted the ration would have kept flesh on the. Not sure if I would have fed them ration over the winter weither. From December to end of March is 120 days so they would have eaten 300kgs at a cost of 75 euro. Compensatory growth would have given you part of that weight anyway. With the weight your cattle were at slaughter I guessing your silage was very good anyway. Minerals on top of the silage would have been adequate.

Just an an example if these cattle were killed mid july this year at an average weight of 370kgs when the base was 4/4.05 at an average grade of O+3= with Hereford bonus and QA they would have averaged 1520 euro. Even to hold the 2-3 ones that graded 3ish FS would leave you with a better margin especaially if you fed no nuts for the winter.

CHOPS01 · 20-10-2017 01:28PM

The way i look at it i am only starting out so i need to keep my financial lay out as tight as possible.This i find i can do with HEx off dairy cows.If i can by the right type at the right price there is a good chance they will leave something decent behind them. So given what they are i am still realistically better off putting weight on them as they are not going to grade well enough on the grid.
The 7 heavier lads were bought at an average cost of €1084 delivered to the yard.6 on July 10th and the other on Dec 1st last year.Those 7 cattle averaged at €1596 in the pocket.The light lad was bought at €745 on Dec 1st and returned €1207.

kk.man · 20-10-2017 01:38PM

CHOPS01 wrote: »

The way i look at it i am only starting out so i need to keep my financial lay out as tight as possible.This i find i can do with HEx off dairy cows.If i can by the right type at the right price there is a good chance they will leave something decent behind them. So given what they are i am still realistically better off putting weight on them as they are not going to grade well enough on the grid.
The 7 heavier lads were bought at an average cost of €1084 delivered to the yard.6 on July 10th and the other on Dec 1st last year.Those 7 cattle averaged at €1596 in the pocket.The light lad was bought at €745 on Dec 1st and returned €1207.

Nice money on paper and I am been no way critical but you wouldn't have much change out of 350e in costs looking at those figures. Keeping cattle over the winter no matter what system is expensive. Plus you must factor in your labour. I'm not been the agent of gloom here but you'd want that margin at least.

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