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Tax increases on cigarettes - are shopkeepers making a fortune?

2

Comments

  • #32
    nice_guy80
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,722 ✭✭✭nice_guy80


    smokers always buy sweet stuff


  • #33
    McCrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭McCrack


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Naive opinion .......... every time the price of cigarettes go up results in more smokers turning to the Black Market, ie. further funding Organised Crime.

    Yes, and many more will stop completely


  • #34
    Berserker
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »
    It is very expensive to insure cigarettes and tobacco, doubt it makes retailers any real money

    Correct. Coffee machines on the other hand are a gold mine, according to the owner of my local Maxol station.


  • #35
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 26,219 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I can't believe cigarettes are €12 a pack. How on earth do part-timers or students afford to smoke? Never mind smoking and going out drinking.

    I've no idea of the evidence but I assume the price hikes are shown to put people off taking it up in the first place.


  • #36
    Jim Bob Scratcher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Jim Bob Scratcher


    30 grams of rolling tobacco gone up to 16 fookin euro :mad:


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  • #37
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    McCrack wrote: »
    Yes, and many more will stop completely

    You really are naive when it comes to smoking/smokers ........... nobody bases their decision to continue smoking (or to stop smoking) on the price of cigarettes! :D


  • #38
    etselbbuns
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭etselbbuns


    Jim Bob Scratcher wrote: »
    30 grams of rolling tobacco gone up to 16 fookin euro :mad:
    €14.50, caller


  • #39
    murpho999
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,956 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Fr_Dougal wrote: »
    For smokers it's much better value now to avoid short breaks in Ireland, pop over to Spain/Holland/Portugal for a weekend. Stock up on smokes, nicer surroundings and better value for accommodation/food etc. Every carton of 200 is a saving of ~€50.

    Bizzare logic.

    Foreign smokers will just bring their cigarettes with them.
    Ireland actually is a nice place you know.


  • #40
    Jim Bob Scratcher
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,231 ✭✭✭Jim Bob Scratcher


    etselbbuns wrote: »
    €14.50, caller

    Amber leaf is gone up to 16


  • #41
    bilbot79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    It's perfectly fine behaviour and not unscrupulous in any manner. The shopkeeper has taken a risk by investing in the old price cigs and is entitled to profit for that.

    There is always the chance of them not being hiked and he would have no extra profit


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  • #42
    aoh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 148 ✭✭aoh


    It's the importer/manufacturer who pays the excise. Any retailer who increases the price the next day is just ripping off the customer. Bought 200 yesterday at pre-budget price. One honest and knowledgable company.


  • #43
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    entropi wrote: »
    This and any usual increase on tobacco or alcohol should and would only increase profits for the Government, not any private entity, once the increase comes into effect, right? Buying in bulk beforehand wouldn't make a difference, surely?

    It does. Yes. You buy the goods at the pre tax increase price. And sell them at the new price immediately. Shops and pubs make a lot of money on it.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #44
    Annasopra
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,236 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    You really are naive when it comes to smoking/smokers ........... nobody bases their decision to continue smoking (or to stop smoking) on the price of cigarettes! :D

    Nobody?

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • #45
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,504 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Bizzare logic.

    Foreign smokers will just bring their cigarettes with them.
    Ireland actually is a nice place you know.

    I wonder what the duty free will be like post brexit. Theoretically you could book the cheapest flight to any UK destination and stock up on smokes each time. It would probably be worth the time investment.


  • #46
    Gmaximum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭Gmaximum


    Pawwed Rig wrote: »
    I wonder what the duty free will be like post brexit. Theoretically you could book the cheapest flight to any UK destination and stock up on smokes each time. It would probably be worth the time investment.

    Quicker to cheaper to cross the boarder


  • #47
    Pawwed Rig
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,504 ✭✭✭✭Pawwed Rig


    Gmaximum wrote: »
    Quicker to cheaper to cross the boarder

    Depends where you live and I'm not sure if facilities will be available at a land border.


  • #48
    dr.fuzzenstein
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,575 ✭✭✭✭dr.fuzzenstein


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Bizzare logic.

    Foreign smokers will just bring their cigarettes with them.
    Ireland actually is a nice place you know.

    He's talking about Irish smokers.
    The suggestion is not to take weekend breaks in Ireland, but jet off to Spain, etc on a cheap Ryanair flight. Once there, pop into a supermarket and buy as many smokes as will fit into your luggage and fly back again.
    The argument is, cheap smokes, nice break in a nice country with nice food, win win all round. Except for the Irish hospitality industry that will lose a lot of domestic business.
    It's what I used to do. Fly over to Germany, pop into Aldi and buy 20 to 40 pouches of rolling tobacco. Costs about €4 now for a pouch. If you are a moderate smoker and smoke one pack a week, your annual costs for smoking are around €200!
    And the Irish exchequer doesn't get a single cent, which for me was the best part. And you get proper smokes, not that Chinese crap.

    edit:
    Not saying Ireland isn't a nice place. It is nice.
    40g of halfzware rolling tobacco in Aldi costs €4.55.
    http://www.discounter-preisvergleich.de/ALDI-Sued-Preisliste-Tabakwaren/#Tabakwaren


  • #49
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    You really are naive when it comes to smoking/smokers ........... nobody bases their decision to continue smoking (or to stop smoking) on the price of cigarettes! :D


    Using moving averages, overall smoking prevalence has
    declined from 28.28% in June 2003 to 19.53% in December
    2014 (21.55% males and 17.59% for females).
    T


  • #50
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Sorry for the state of the above post, but the site where I copied it from caused havoc with the fonts etc.

    It show's the reduction in the prevalence of smoking in Ireland. It's not as if everybody suddenly coped on to the health benefits of not smoking. These were all known in 2003. Cost is most certainly a factor. I'd say we all know someone that quit where cost was a factor/motivator.


  • #51
    McCrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,017 ✭✭✭McCrack


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    Sorry for the state of the above post, but the site where I copied it from caused havoc with the fonts etc.

    It show's the reduction in the prevalence of smoking in Ireland. It's not as if everybody suddenly coped on to the health benefits of not smoking. These were all known in 2003. Cost is most certainly a factor. I'd say we all know someone that quit where cost was a factor/motivator.

    Dont be so naive!!!


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  • #52
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Joeytheparrot wrote: »
    Nobody?
    Avatar MIA wrote: »


    Using moving averages, overall smoking prevalence has
    declined from 28.28% in June 2003 to 19.53% in December
    2014 (21.55% males and 17.59% for females).
    T

    Addiction to tobacco has no interest in money or health .......... you'll often hear smokers saying "I'll have to give these up, they're too expensive" or "I'll have to stop smoking, I wake up coughing my lungs out!" .......... usually said whilst lighting up!??!!!
    Why?? Because they can't stop (yet!) ........... no smoker thinks "I'm happy to pay €10.35 for a pack of cigarettes but if they go to €10.40 then I'm definitely stopping that day!!" .......... they may say it but they know that the price will not be a factor if/when they ever successfully quit. If it were that easy to just stop then they would have stopped long before the price ever reached the "acceptable" amount of €10.35 ........ obviously.


  • #53
    beertons
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 23,490 ✭✭✭✭beertons


    The only ones creaming it are the government, and the criminals selling the illegally imported cartons, which they pay no duty or tax on here.


  • #54
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Addiction to tobacco has no interest in money or health .......... you'll often hear smokers saying "I'll have to give these up, they're too expensive" or "I'll have to stop smoking, I wake up coughing my lungs out!" .......... usually said whilst lighting up!??!!!
    Why?? Because they can't stop (yet!) ........... no smoker thinks "I'm happy to pay €10.35 for a pack of cigarettes but if they go to €10.40 then I'm definitely stopping that day!!" .......... they may say it but they know that the price will not be a factor if/when they ever successfully quit. If it were that easy to just stop then they would have stopped long before the price ever reached the "acceptable" amount of €10.35 ........ obviously.

    So no smoker has ever given up? And no smoker is ever motivated to give up because of price?

    Do you think we don't understand the concept of addiction? Addiction can be overcome. No one is saying it's easy, but it can be done.


  • #55
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    beertons wrote: »
    The only ones creaming it are the government, and the criminals selling the illegally imported cartons, which they pay no duty or tax on here.

    Creaming it, really. The cost effects of tobacco are horrendous. People become incapacitated, needing care a decade or so earlier in life through emphysema and poor health in general. Think of the costs of treating cancer caused by smoking.

    If you think the state is making money on fag sales you're mistaken.


  • #56
    Guffy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,528 ✭✭✭Guffy


    thesandeman wrote: »
    My local garage tried to buy their usual stock two weeks ago but their supplier refused to sell to them until after the budget. By yesterday they had only a few random packs lying around.
    Looks like it was the wholesaler who was making the killing in that case.

    Your local garage had its store room filled with 2/3 weeks supply of cigarettes to sell at the increased price. The wholesaler was to blame for him havong to increase the price the day after the budget. Wholesalers don't make extra profit on goods sold after the budget unless they increase the price themselves at the same time


  • #57
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Avatar MIA wrote: »
    So no smoker has ever given up? And no smoker is ever motivated to give up because of price?

    Do you think we don't understand the concept of addiction? Addiction can be overcome. No one is saying it's easy, but it can be done.

    Addiction to a substance and the price of the substance does not have any correlation to said addiction ......... that's about as simplistically basic as I can put it for you ......... if you don't believe that then you have no understanding whatsoever of how addiction effects the abusers' mental/physical state.

    You're not really naive enough to believe the Government's line of "We're raising the price of tobacco because we really really want smokers to quit ......... we really do!!" ............. they're drug dealers who are only interested in generating more revenue for their product just like any drug dealer anywhere in the world.
    If raising the price of cigarettes had any negative impact (as in smokers stopping because of a price increase) on the amount of revenue they received then they simply would not raise the price.


  • #58
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    MadDog76 wrote: »
    Addiction to a substance and the price of the substance does not have any correlation to said addiction ......... that's about as simplistically basic as I can put it for you ......... if you don't believe that then you have no understanding whatsoever of how addiction effects the abusers' mental/physical state.

    You're not really naive enough to believe the Government's line of "We're raising the price of tobacco because we really really want smokers to quit ......... we really do!!" ............. they're drug dealers who are only interested in generating more revenue for their product just like any drug dealer anywhere in the world.
    If raising the price of cigarettes had any negative impact (as in smokers stopping because of a price increase) on the amount of revenue they received then they simply would not raise the price.

    If only we had a conspiracy theory forum. You could post this alongside a fluoride in tap water thread.


  • #59
    Markcheese
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,242 ✭✭✭Markcheese


    There is the theory that since they die a decade earlier they save the state a fortune in pension payments... God be with the old days when smokers had the decency to just suddenly drop dead from heart disease or present with late stage lung cancer and be dead a week later... Now it's tests for this and that lots of treatment and chemo.. Expensive long stays in hospital, oxygen machines and strong pain killers.. Takes all the profit out of it for the state...

    Slava ukraini 🇺🇦



  • #60
    Supercell
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,017 ✭✭✭✭Supercell


    MadDog76 , I dont know what your agenda is, but I can tell you as someone who smoked for more than 20 years before quitting that the price of a pack of fags does play a role for sure! I got sick of the coughing, winter chest colds and the fact that I never had any money to spare. Its a bit naive of you to think that price does not play a part, not all, but a part for sure.
    https://www.loughlinstown.ie/


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  • #61
    MadDog76
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,162 ✭✭✭MadDog76


    Supercell wrote: »
    MadDog76 , I dont know what your agenda is, but I can tell you as someone who smoked for more than 20 years before quitting that the price of a pack of fags does play a role for sure! I got sick of the coughing, winter chest colds and the fact that I never had any money to spare. Its a bit naive of you to think that price does not play a part, not all, but a part for sure.

    Why did it take 20 years?? Were you happy to waste all that money on cigarettes for 20 years???? :confused:


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