Any point reading the books?

Roger Hassenforder · 24-08-2017 12:00pm

one armed dwarf wrote: »

I read the first one. I think you're just as well off to read something else and watch the series

the first one was almost verbatim the TV show, but they're starting to diverge a bit slightly.
I might start skipping chapters of certain characters. Brienne is a dose at the moment.

ArmaniJeanss · 24-08-2017 12:19pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

at a bit now where his style is really annoying.
Jamie and Brienne are heading for Kingslanding after Caitlyn (or whatever) sprung Jamie from prison.
While Jamie calls Brienne "wench" in dialogue, GRR also refers to her as "the wench", i.e. the wench saddled her horse... the wench glared at Jamie...
Makes no sense. A chapter of it.

Thats kinda the point of the POV concept. We are seeing it through Jaimes eyes and at this moment all Jamie sees her as is 'the wench'. Its the narrative device that's used. It would be written differently if it was a pure third person neutral narrative. Later he won't think of her as the wench but may still call her by that name.

One thing to remember is you can't take as gospel everything that's written in a POV chapter, as by definition some of it will be the interpretation/opinion of that POV'er.

Interestingly when you get to on later books you'll see identical events play out from two different POV characters in different chapters, and how one persons interpretation can be incorrect.

awec · 24-08-2017 12:23pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

the first one was almost verbatim the TV show, but they're starting to diverge a bit slightly.
I might start skipping chapters of certain characters. Brienne is a dose at the moment.

The first book is the only one that the show aligns with completely. It goes more and more off-track as the books progress.

Personally, I have a hard time remembering what happened in the books vs what happened in the show.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-08-2017 3:07pm

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Thats kinda the point of the POV concept. We are seeing it through Jaimes eyes and at this moment all Jamie sees her as is 'the wench'. Its the narrative device that's used. It would be written differently if it was a pure third person neutral narrative. Later he won't think of her as the wench but may still call her by that name.

One thing to remember is you can't take as gospel everything that's written in a POV chapter, as by definition some of it will be the interpretation/opinion of that POV'er.

Interestingly when you get to on later books you'll see identical events play out from two different POV characters in different chapters, and how one persons interpretation can be incorrect.

I get the POV narrative style.
I might not be explaining my criticism clearly!

I'll have another go:
At times GRR refers to Brienne as 'Brienne', and at others as 'the wench', all the while in the third person neutral. If it was consistent, fair enough, but its not, its all over the place:

example*:
"We'll stay here for the night" said Brienne.
Jamie and Brienne tied their horses outside the ruined cottage. "Hurry up wench" said Jamie. By God she's a surly looking wench. Jamie and the wench went into the ruined cottage. Jamie looked for food, while the wench lit a fire.

That's not POV narrative, that's just poor sloppy riting!
Its notable in this chapter more so than any other. It really stands out.

*don't have it front of me, but its this type of writing.

one armed dwarf · 24-08-2017 3:13pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

the first one was almost verbatim the TV show, but they're starting to diverge a bit slightly.
I might start skipping chapters of certain characters. Brienne is a dose at the moment.

Why read the books at that point though? I read a little of book 2 and didn't think it was good, but I didn't think book 1 was much either.

Not to get snobby but I feel like there's so much other stuff to do than soldier on reading some not very good books especially when the show is there also.

That's just my opinion anyway.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-08-2017 3:56pm

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Why read the books at that point though? I read a little of book 2 and didn't think it was good, but I didn't think book 1 was much either.

Not to get snobby but I feel like there's so much other stuff to do than soldier on reading some not very good books especially when the show is there also.

That's just my opinion anyway.

hence my OP!
was wondering was it worth the bother reading the books...
I don't think they're bad so far

(Did you ever read Lord of The Rings? And watch the movies?
There's a whole world in them, that doesn't manifest itselfin the movies. By reading the books, and other tomes such as the Silmarillion you get a better feel for the overall story).

thieloo · 24-08-2017 6:04pm

I think it's just a very different experience and you get just more insight into the characters in the book. But the tv show still has a different emotional impact.

Liam O · 27-08-2017 4:04pm

one armed dwarf wrote: »

Why read the books at that point though? I read a little of book 2 and didn't think it was good, but I didn't think book 1 was much either.

Not to get snobby but I feel like there's so much other stuff to do than soldier on reading some not very good books especially when the show is there also.

That's just my opinion anyway.

yeah Clash of Kings and Storm of Swords, not very good :rolleyes:.

The show is a poor substitute for the books most of the time. Saved somewhat by very good casting, acting and big scenes being done justice because of the budget. Characters making nonsensical plays purely because they need the narrative to move in a certain convenient direction or they had characters that had their true motivations cut from the show and had to be retconned into a role that they had not planned for e.g.

Varys

.

I still watch because it's better than having it spoiled by the likes of Buzzfeed or other people on FB but they dropped the ball in certain instances that become clear when reading the books. The world feels like it's actually populated by real people and not just lords and ladies.

Tar.Aldarion · 29-08-2017 4:53pm

I love the books but as they most likely won't be finished (and god I hope they aren't being finished with the simplicity of the series) I wouldn't really recommend them. Much prefer some hardcore fantasy such as The Malazan series.

Ri_Nollaig · 31-08-2017 1:28pm

Its funny I thought for the most part the TV Show was a lot better than the books ...when it was still following them. Like a lot of people have said, there was a lot of characters that were complete chores to read through. The TV show did a good job in merging a lot of the roles of some characters in one or created new ones as well. Little things, like making more use of Bronn.
But there was definitely a notable drop in quality once it left the book's guideline, and the last season in particular just felt like it was rushing to the end now.
Still love it and can't wait for season 8 but wish they hadn't dropped those two episodes for this season.

I guess the other obvious problem is will they ever be finished?
Book 6 is, 5 years? late now I believe. "2018" being the last time a date was given. Never mind Book 7.
Not to mention it will be even more of a chore to read through a boring character if that arc has already been done for the TV show now.

Would be a shame if they don't get concluded as well but it is a possibility. Granted he could just be trolling everyone and release book 6 and 7 tomorrow for the craic.

Mc Love · 31-08-2017 4:41pm

mjsc1970 wrote: »

Yes.

Yes - definitely read the books, a lot more detail than the TV show

Geimhreadh · 01-09-2017 11:50pm

There is so much more detail and gives you a greater understanding behind why the characters do what they do.

He will finish them some day and you have 2
years until season 8 so why not.

Roger Hassenforder · 20-09-2017 3:36pm

OMG the Iron Islands chapters are a chore..

Nearly 4 down. Enjoying them, well worth the read.

TheIrishGrover · 23-09-2017 1:55pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

OMG the Iron Islands chapters are a chore..

Nearly 4 down. Enjoying them, well worth the read.

"GRRRR. We are vicious unlikable (not) Vikings with a boring and unlikely religion. Our ONLY defining feature is that we are vicious unlikable (not) Vikings with a boring and unlikely religion. Let's have a vote to see who is going to become the leader of a band of vicious unlikable (non) Vikings with a boring and unlikely religion."

"Hey, could be worse. Could be Sand Snakes"

Al Capwned · 30-09-2017 8:28pm

I drive for a living and am listening to the audio books for a bit during most days while I'm on the road. Read by Roy Dotrice.
I'm probably half way through the second one at the minute, enjoying it for the main part, even if the narrator's pronunciation of certain names and words is wrecking my head!

Roger Hassenforder · 12-10-2017 9:59pm

Seriously struggling on Dreams & Dust

A lot of random characters and plot wandering in and out. Seems to be a lot of padding...

0byme75341jo28 · 13-10-2017 12:55am

I loved AFFC, getting the Jaime and Cersei POVs were very interesting. The world building (especially of King's Landing) added an awful lot of depth to the story imo.

human 19 · 15-10-2017 1:15am

I read the books before watching the TV series, After reading 1 and a half books, I decided to watch a few eps of the series to see how they compared. I MUCH prefer the books. The TV series on only based on the books, not a faithful copy. When watching only 3 or 4 eps of the TV series, I noticed that the producers either changed scenes from the book or totally manufactured scenes which never occured in the original story.
A lot of the characters are older in the TV version also. I assume this is to a) females: show tits. b)Males: hunk factor

These amended or invented scenes in the TV series , IMHO, were made in the Eastenders-style antagonistic emotive style, designed to get the viewers gossipy outrage juices flowing. I found these scenes to be extremely annoying which is also why I gave up watching soaps years ago.

I would therefore reccomend reading the books rather than watching the series

leggo · 15-10-2017 5:54am

I'll often make a conscious decision not to read books before I watch TV/movie adaptations for the exact same reason: I don't want to have the 'book ****' view and it's hard not to when you have the emotional attachment to them first. For example, I love the Harry Potter movies now, but when they first came out I couldn't notice anything but the stuff they left out (when, in truth, the idea of a TV/movie adaptation is to condense source material into manageable output that works on screen).

With the likes of GoT and The Walking Dead, I opted to watch the shows first then catch up on the source material later. As such, I could appreciate the shows for what they were and not what they were missing, then the books/comics were a nice supplementary add-on. I actually agree with most of GoT's decisions when it came to characters. Like if you look at Quentyn for example, you spend so long with him then it just comes to nothing (albeit a fairly spectacular/mildly hilarious nothing). That happens so often in the books with characters who got the chop from the show, I imagine Victarion's story is going to go similarly. I also don't know where GRRM is going with Sansa/Littlefinger, but the show did much better at keeping Sansa more central to the plot (whereas you could never hear from her again in the books and you wouldn't even ask questions). The fact is the books' twists and general plot are fantastic, but it could use an editor badly too when it comes to introducing extra characters and expanding the world (perhaps why he's struggling to then condense it and wrap it up now), whereas the show had to do that and for me is better for it.

I think you've got to accept that if you read the source material of something that's getting adapted, your judgement of the adaptation is going to be skewed because the adaptation isn't made for you, it's made for the audience who haven't seen it and it's assumed you'll just follow along anyway because you've already bought in (which tends to pan out for the most part). The thing that makes books great is they're so deeply personal, right down to how we imagine characters look, when in truth we've no right to expect our deeply personal interpretation of them to be the universal interpretation.

Al Capwned · 15-10-2017 12:31pm

leggo wrote: »

I'll often make a conscious decision not to read books before I watch TV/movie adaptations for the exact same reason: I don't want to have the 'book ****' view and it's hard not to when you have the emotional attachment to them first. For example, I love the Harry Potter movies now, but when they first came out I couldn't notice anything but the stuff they left out (when, in truth, the idea of a TV/movie adaptation is to condense source material into manageable output that works on screen).

With the likes of GoT and The Walking Dead, I opted to watch the shows first then catch up on the source material later. As such, I could appreciate the shows for what they were and not what they were missing, then the books/comics were a nice supplementary add-on. I actually agree with most of GoT's decisions when it came to characters. Like if you look at Quentyn for example, you spend so long with him then it just comes to nothing (albeit a fairly spectacular/mildly hilarious nothing). That happens so often in the books with characters who got the chop from the show, I imagine Victarion's story is going to go similarly. I also don't know where GRRM is going with Sansa/Littlefinger, but the show did much better at keeping Sansa more central to the plot (whereas you could never hear from her again in the books and you wouldn't even ask questions). The fact is the books' twists and general plot are fantastic, but it could use an editor badly too when it comes to introducing extra characters and expanding the world (perhaps why he's struggling to then condense it and wrap it up now), whereas the show had to do that and for me is better for it.

I think you've got to accept that if you read the source material of something that's getting adapted, your judgement of the adaptation is going to be skewed because the adaptation isn't made for you, it's made for the audience who haven't seen it and it's assumed you'll just follow along anyway because you've already bought in (which tends to pan out for the most part). The thing that makes books great is they're so deeply personal, right down to how we imagine characters look, when in truth we've no right to expect our deeply personal interpretation of them to be the universal interpretation.

That's a spectacularly well presented post for 5 to 6 of a Sunday morning.

TheIrishGrover · 16-10-2017 11:34am

human 19 wrote: »

I read the books before watching the TV series, After reading 1 and a half books, I decided to watch a few eps of the series to see how they compared. I MUCH prefer the books. The TV series on only based on the books, not a faithful copy. When watching only 3 or 4 eps of the TV series, I noticed that the producers either changed scenes from the book or totally manufactured scenes which never occured in the original story.
A lot of the characters are older in the TV version also. I assume this is to a) females: show tits. b)Males: hunk factor

These amended or invented scenes in the TV series , IMHO, were made in the Eastenders-style antagonistic emotive style, designed to get the viewers gossipy outrage juices flowing. I found these scenes to be extremely annoying which is also why I gave up watching soaps years ago.

I would therefore reccomend reading the books rather than watching the series

Well, I think they were doing a decent job of compressing the books into a series. Obviously things had to change/characters dropped etc but I was OK with that up until

Jon Connington. Now you know they are not going to have the huge impact they could have had

I also had no problem with the aging up. I mean Dany was 13 when she was married to Drogo. While this would have been consistent with medieval thinking and was also so that the characters could age over the span of the books, it still made uncomfortable reading and would never have been done on TV

HandsomeBob · 16-10-2017 11:44am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

OMG the Iron Islands chapters are a chore..

Nearly 4 down. Enjoying them, well worth the read.

I heard the II chapters were difficult reading before picking up the books, but I must be on my own in saying I enjoyed them. The Greyjoys are all nicely poised in the story as things stand and one of the things I'm looking forward to about the eventual release of the next book is seeing how they move forward.

Meereen and Bravos were more frustrating for me personally.

leggo · 16-10-2017 12:34pm

Yeah, aside from Tyrion's stuff I found Mereen a bit of a tease. Constantly on the brink of something big happening without anything big happening.

Having said that, they do a much better job than the shows of explaining the threat. You really feel like Dany is trapped and her entire plan has gone tits up, whereas in the show you're like "yeah...the dragons are gonna sort this out fairly snappy soon."

Cocksy · 05-12-2017 2:47pm

good for brains

Roger Hassenforder · 05-12-2017 7:27pm

they're a bit different now in fairness.
on the last book.
...keeping her lit.

Roger Hassenforder · 23-12-2017 11:22pm

Right, I'm done, all in all worth reading.

Really enjoyed the last book, albeit with a few too many similar names.
In fairness, the show did a good job of condensing the books, but he must be paid by the word. So much could have been left out, that added nothing to the story.

that fcuking Patchface though, one of the most annoying characters I've ever come across.

leggo · 24-12-2017 12:15am

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Right, I'm done, all in all worth reading.

Really enjoyed the last book, albeit with a few too many similar names.
In fairness, the show did a good job of condensing the books, but he must be paid by the word. So much could have been left out, that added nothing to the story.

that fcuking Patchface though, one of the most annoying characters I've ever come across.

Yes! Thank you! Him and his ****ing songs that you have to read in case they're ever important but they NEVER are! Is there nothing to be said for Ramsey taking him prisoner and killing him a horrific way to make a statement?

Roger Hassenforder · 24-12-2017 2:52am

leggo wrote: »

Yes! Thank you! Him and his ****ing songs that you have to read in case they're ever important but they NEVER are! Is there nothing to be said for Ramsey taking him prisoner and killing him a horrific way to make a statement?

Theres a fcuking clown with a cavity block tied to his ankles at the bottom of the sea under the sea

skippy15 · 24-12-2017 3:08am

I loved reading the books before the series, so much more info in the books. When I read the red wedding I through book at wall and refused read book for week after,
Few different tangents in the book, but well worth a read if your a reader and a real fan. have also just done GOT tour in Belfast also well worth a go,
For a die hared fan it something you shouldn't have ask IMO but if not a reader books are quite lengthy

MatthewCurtis · 24-01-2018 12:53pm

[font=arial, sans-serif][font=arial, sans-serif]I plan to start reading "The Song of Ice and Fire" after the season of "Games of Thrones" is over.[/font]

[/font]

mjsc1970 · 20-08-2019 7:39pm

Yep. Missing GOT since S8 finished.

So, I've re-read the Dunk & Egg novellas, which I'd forgotten. The Hedge Knight is good. The Sworn Sword a little tedious. The Mystery Knight really good. I thought re-reading them would confirm that they are ok for my 11 y/o to read. He can wait a year or 2. But GRRM does a good job putting us back in to Westeros about 100years before GOT.

As for a Song of Ice & Fire, yep, started on Book 1 recently just picking it up now band again. Maybe yer man will finish Winds of Winter by the time I get through the lot. And sure if he never does I'll have enjoyed the ride again anyway.

animalinside · 21-05-2022 6:44pm

I recommend read book 1, which is great, and be done with it. Everything else is unnecessary when you've seen the tv show and kind of starts to dampen the quality.

eire4 · 31-10-2023 1:52am

I actually read the books after having watched most of the TV show and loved the books as well as loving the TV show. My only gripe with the books is on how selfish GRRM is not having finished the series. I mean come on A Dance with Dragons was published in 2011. It is beyond ridiculous at this point.

Any point reading the books?

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