Harvey Weinstein scandal (Mod warning in op.)

goose2005 · 13-10-2017 05:08PM

Vojera wrote: »

I agree with this sentiment. To many women it's not shocking that it happens, just shocking that it's out in the open.

However, I disagree vehemently with Thompson's description of it as "extreme masculinity". To me, masculinity has nothing to do with it; it's abuse of power and taking advantage of vulnerable people. When I think of the men in my life, no matter how masculine they are, they would never engage in something like this. This is about ****ty people, and I don't think it helps for people like Thompson to describe it as being part of "masculinity" that this happens.

It's not very different from all the people who will make the connection between the abuse and the *cough* ethnoreligious background *cough* of all these Hollywood movers and shakers...

Ipso · 13-10-2017 05:26PM

Ash.J.Williams wrote: »

I'm sure David icke has it covered from years ago

According to him he would, but not much else.

fryup · 13-10-2017 05:26PM

scumbag? rapist? i don't know it seems to me the lynch mob are out for him....he's a randy old [email]b*stard....if[/email] you were surrounded by beautiful sexy women on a daily basis wounldn't you be tempted...he just needed more cold showers

pitifulgod · 13-10-2017 05:26PM

Thighgap and Sideboob wrote: »

Ultimately most people look out for number one, Rose saw thst 100k and looked out for number one. How different is Rose to Harvey, if she were Harvey she would be still looking out for number one and that might include the same things Harvey did.

Do you always blame victims of rape? Savile victims remained silent, victims of abuse in the church remained silent, silence as a result of fear of powerful people is not new. To liken her to Weinstein is pretty nasty, she was in the infancy of her career and early twenties. He was a billionaire who could destroy careers and lives. He's well documented as doing so. Women from far more powerful backgrounds were intimidated by him.

Outlaw Pete · 13-10-2017 05:32PM

anna080 wrote: »

Rose is also pictured with Harvey at events, smiling with him almost 10 years after taking money from him. She most likely would still be silent even now, only for his own brother was the one to throw him under the bus.
I feel for her, I really do- but there's so much about this whole fcuking thing that I do not understand.

Absolutely, and this is another thing that winded me up. I am from her generation and I remember her only too well and she was not the demure girl she is (for whatever reason) attempting to suggest she was back then with tweets like this:

https://twitter.com/rosemcgowan/status/917139398101106689

I think when most people look back this is the Rose they remember, hanging off Marilyn Manson's arm at the MTV Awards in '98.

If she was raped, of course I feel for her but it still doesn't excuse taking money to keep quiet about it. Had she been much younger and broke, you could wrap your head around someone taking the cash but she wasn't hurting for it. My sense of it all is that (and this is just an opinion) is that Harvey forced himself on her in '97 but like two of the other women (from the original article) went along with it. Then overtime, what with her career not exactly going from strength to strength, and her not becoming the star she perhaps felt she should, she's after her slice of flesh as it were.

Maybe Harvey refused to oblige her with a role or two which she feels she deserved. Last decent film she was in Tarnantino's Grindhouse in 2007 which Harvey produced. Only time I heard of her in the media since then was she tweeted out a request that Adam Sandler's company had emailed regarding clothing for an audition. Her agency fired her over it.

Far too many actresses making complaints now for Harvey nor to be guilty of sexual assault at the very least and hope he has to be pay his dues in the but some of the accusations I for sure would have my doubts about (with regards to the complete truth being told at least) and her's is one of them. Ashley Judd another. What was she said she shouted at Harvery as she left his hotel room after refusing his advances? Something like "Get me an Oscar, Harvey, then you can touch me". A joke she claims, to avoid alienating him.

retro:electro · 13-10-2017 05:36PM

pitifulgod wrote: »

Do you always blame victims of rape? Savile victims remained silent, victims of abuse in the church remained silent, silence as a result of fear of powerful people is not new. To liken her to Weinstein is pretty nasty, she was in the infancy of her career and early twenties. He was a billionaire who could destroy careers and lives. He's well documented as doing so. Women from far more powerful backgrounds were intimidated by him.

To liken the impuissant Saville and Church abuse victims to over paid, over privileged, powerful celebrities with the world media at their feet is also disproportionate.

The Rape of Lucretia · 13-10-2017 05:53PM

Quite a media frenzy, and roll call of the good and the penitent at the moment.
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone though....

JupiterKid · 13-10-2017 06:01PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Quite a media frenzy, and roll call of the good and the penitent at the moment.
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone though....

Is it though? The focus of the reports is solely on Weinstein and McGowan. Nothing at all about a wisespread culture of sleaze, hypocrisy and abuse in Hollywood. The US news networks really don't want this whole sordid cesspit exposed. They knows who pays the piper. Depressing stuff.

pitifulgod · 13-10-2017 06:16PM

anna080 wrote: »

To liken the impuissant Saville and Church abuse victims to over paid, over privileged, powerful celebrities with the world media at their feet is also disproportionate.

She was raped, it's extraordinarily low to attack her and liken her to Weinstein, no less.

ceadaoin. · 13-10-2017 06:26PM

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Absolutely, and this is another thing that winded me up. I am from her generation and I remember her only too well and she was not the demure girl she is (for whatever reason) attempting to suggest she was back then with tweets like this:

https://twitter.com/rosemcgowan/status/917139398101106689

I think when most people look back this is the Rose they remember, hanging off Marilyn Manson's arm at the MTV Awards in '98.

If she was raped, of course I feel for her but it still doesn't excuse taking money to keep quiet about it. Had she been much younger and broke, you could wrap your head around someone taking the cash but she wasn't hurting for it. My sense of it all is that (and this is just an opinion) is that Harvey forced himself on her in '97 but like two of the other women (from the original article) went along with it. Then overtime, what with her career not exactly going from strength to strength, and her not becoming the star she perhaps felt she should, she's after her slice of flesh as it were.

Maybe Harvey refused to oblige her with a role or two which she feels she deserved. Last decent film she was in Tarnantino's Grindhouse in 2007 which Harvey produced. Only time I heard of her in the media since then was she tweeted out a request that Adam Sandler's company had emailed regarding clothing for an audition. Her agency fired her over it.

Far too many actresses making complaints now for Harvey nor to be guilty of sexual assault at the very least and hope he has to be pay his dues in the but some of the accusations I for sure would have my doubts about (with regards to the complete truth being told at least) and her's is one of them. Ashley Judd another. What was she said she shouted at Harvery as she left his hotel room after refusing his advances? Something like "Get me an Oscar, Harvey, then you can touch me". A joke she claims, to avoid alienating him.

So what are you saying? She was happy to get her arse out once so she couldn't have been raped?

She was raped. For whatever reason she didn't feel able to name her attacker until now. There can be many reasons for this. It doesn't mean that she was complicit in HW being able to continue abusing women. It doesn't make HW any less guilty. He is a rapist and a serial sexual abuser. That's all on him, not any of his victims. To bring an outfit she wore 20 years ago as a reason to insinuate that she is lying is pretty disgusting tbh

There is no "correct" way for a person who has suffered abuse to behave. Let's not forget that she also had a pretty messed up childhood being raised in the children of God cult which was known to abuse children. It can take a while to come to terms with these things and she shouldn't be judged for it

The Rape of Lucretia · 13-10-2017 06:36PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

She alleges she was raped.

As far as we know at the moment.

pjohnson · 13-10-2017 06:46PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So what are you saying? She was happy to get her arse out once so she couldn't have been raped?

She was raped. For whatever reason she didn't feel able to name her attacker until now. There can be many reasons for this. It doesn't mean that she was complicit in HW being able to continue abusing women. It doesn't make HW any less guilty. He is a rapist and a serial sexual abuser. That's all on him, not any of his victims. To bring an outfit she wore 20 years ago as a reason to insinuate that she is lying is pretty disgusting tbh

There is no "correct" way for a person who has suffered abuse to behave. Let's not forget that she also had a pretty messed up childhood being raised in the children of God cult which was known to abuse children. It can take a while to come to terms with these things and she shouldn't be judged for it

I think you badly missed his post.

ceadaoin. · 13-10-2017 06:51PM

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

As far as we know at the moment.

Yes, allegedly. What's known is that she did receive a settlement. And the settlements to several other women don't mean that HW is a serial sexual abuser. Not at all. I suppose it's possible that dozens of women suddenly decided to make stuff up to get attention and money. Even the anonymous ones.

Bambi985 · 13-10-2017 06:52PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So what are you saying? She was happy to get her arse out once so she couldn't have been raped?

She was raped. For whatever reason she didn't feel able to name her attacker until now. There can be many reasons for this. It doesn't mean that she was complicit in HW being able to continue abusing women. It doesn't make HW any less guilty. He is a rapist and a serial sexual abuser. That's all on him, not any of his victims. To bring an outfit she wore 20 years ago as a reason to insinuate that she is lying is pretty disgusting tbh

There is no "correct" way for a person who has suffered abuse to behave. Let's not forget that she also had a pretty messed up childhood being raised in the children of God cult which was known to abuse children. It can take a while to come to terms with these things and she shouldn't be judged for it

Yeah, holy jesus like the victim blaming. "Oh this is the Rose I remember, y'know the one hanging out with dodgy fellas getting her arse out, she's not as innocent as she looks that one" - this is the exact attitude that prevents a phenomenal amount of women from saying a fcuking thing after some degenerate has sexually assaulted and raped them, add an extreme power dynamic and fame-hungry pressure cooker and complete lack of regulation of an industry dominated by rich and powerful men whose behaviour goes unchecked and you've got the Harvey Weinstein story.

Shame on her for not saying a thing and accepting hush money to stay quiet? When her life and livelihood relied on her not saying a thing and no-one would believe her or back her up because she got her arse out this one time and Weinstein is a career god to the world around her and she no doubt had an army of intimidating lawyers with a gun to her head? Seriously? Shame on you and your total bloody ignorance.

There is such a demonstrated lack of basic understanding of the incredible psychological impact that sexual assault has on a human being throughout all of this Weinstein coverage. Rape victims usually believe it was their fault. Rape victims know they won't be believed. Rape victims are scrutinised far more than their perpetrators. Rape victims often need to bury their trauma in order to get through the day. I fcuking despair sometimes around here, I really do.

retro:electro · 13-10-2017 06:53PM

pitifulgod wrote: »

She was raped, it's extraordinarily low to attack her and liken her to Weinstein, no less.

I agree, it was. But your own comparison was also impaired.

strandroad · 13-10-2017 06:58PM

Bambi985 wrote: »

There is such a demonstrated lack of basic understanding of the incredible psychological impact that sexual assault has on a human being throughout all of this Weinstein coverage. Rape victims usually believe it was their fault. Rape victims know they won't be believed. Rape victims are scrutinised far more than their perpetrators. Rape victims often need to bury their trauma in order to get through the day. I fcuking despair sometimes around here, I really do.

I especially like it when the same posters cr*p on rape victims and then blame them for not coming forward at the time.

pitifulgod · 13-10-2017 07:08PM

anna080 wrote: »

I agree, it was. But your own comparison was also impaired.

It really wasn't, untouchable powerful people making victims fearful of ever publicly coming forward. When they eventually reveal it, people invariably accuse them of lying or question why it took them so long to come forward. They're always attacked. McGowan is being attacked by certain users for absolutely no justifiable reaction.

You yourself portray her as privileged and rich, that has nothing to do with the fact that she was raped. Weinstein still was far more powerful and used that power to intimidate. This applies to many women who faced the same intimidation from Weinstein.

retro:electro · 13-10-2017 07:14PM

pitifulgod wrote: »

It really wasn't, untouchable powerful people making victims fearful of ever publicly coming forward. When they eventually reveal it, people invariably accuse them of lying or question why it took them so long to come forward. They're always attacked. McGowan is being attacked by certain users for absolutely no justifiable reaction.

You yourself portray her as privileged and rich, that has nothing to do with the fact that she was raped. Weinstein still was far more powerful and used that power to intimidate. This applies to many women who faced the same intimidation from Weinstein.

Of course it being rich has nothing to do with the fact she was raped. I never ever even implied as much.
My whole point was based around her being shamed into silence, yet she is shaming all of those around her for not speaking up either when she is herself is cut from the same cloth. Maybe she should lend others the same empathy she wishes to be treated with herself. It's not easy after all, right?

Don't expect everyone around you to have a social conscience when you yourself didn't have one. I understand why she did what she did, she was powerless and against the system.
I don't understand why she's shaming others for not doing what she herself didn't do. I just don't get it. It's confusing and I'm admitting there is parts here that I don't fcuking understand. That is all.

For what it's worth I DO NOT agree with Pete's comment or picture about Rose's dress sense. I had nothing to do with that comment so please don't involve me in it.

pjohnson · 13-10-2017 07:15PM

anna080 wrote: »

My whole point was based around her being shamed into silence, yet she is shaming all of those around her for not speaking up either when she is herself is cut from the same cloth. Maybe she should lend others the same empathy she wishes to be treated with herself. It's not easy after all, right? Don't expect everyone around you to have a social conscience when you yourself didn't have one. I understand why she did what she did, she was powerless and against the system.
I don't understand why she's shaming others for not doing what she herself didn't do.

I 89% sure this is what Pete meant aswell. I guess Rose can never ever ever be questioned again tho.

strandroad · 13-10-2017 07:27PM

anna080 wrote: »

Don't expect everyone around you to have a social conscience when you yourself didn't have one. I understand why she did what she did, she was powerless and against the system.
I don't understand why she's shaming others for not doing what she herself didn't do.

She said she was raped by a powerful producer many times, and in the context when it was easy to connect the dots. She named him to some people too, for example to Amazon execs as recently reported. She did much much more than others, so yes it would be good if they stepped up ti her level at least.

Outlaw Pete · 13-10-2017 07:42PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

So what are you saying? She was happy to get her arse out once so she couldn't have been raped?

Predictable tripe. No, that is not what I am saying.

She was raped.

Allegedly. I'm sure he's guilty of a lot of what he has been accused of, rape though? I'm not as convinced.

For whatever reason she didn't feel able to name her attacker until now. There can be many reasons for this. It doesn't mean that she was complicit in HW being able to continue abusing women.

I respectfully disagree. She was a 24-year-old woman that took $100,000 to keep her mouth shut and so absolutely there is a level of complicity there. If I took a £100,000 when I was 24 years old (after having been sexually assaulted by someone in a position of power) to not report it and then sat back for 20-years while hearing story after story about that same person sexually assaulting others, would that not make me complicit? I think it would.

It doesn't make HW any less guilty.

Show me where I said it did? In fact I explicitly said I hope he gets his comeuppance.

To bring an outfit she wore 20 years ago as a reason to insinuate that she is lying is pretty disgusting tbh

I did not highlight what she wore for the reasons that you are claiming. I highlighted them as Rose is portraying herself as this demure naive innocent girl back then when it fact she was a mid twenties intelligent sharp woman. I believe that is calculated on her part to in order to give her version of events more credence.

This is an accusation of rape, let's not forget that. #IBelieveHer may be deemed the suitable response on Twitter and Facebook, but in a broader discussion of the topic, many aspects of events will be referenced. To hone in on one and then pretend that it was done solely to discredit the accusation itself is.... mischievous at best.

There is no "correct" way for a person who has suffered abuse to behave.

Yes, we all know the well trotted out lines thank you, I don't recall saying or implying there was but how someone behaves is bound to be discussed. It's not quite as irrelevant as you'd like it to be.

Let's not forget that she also had a pretty messed up childhood being raised in the children of God cult which was known to abuse children.

That's something I could well tell you not to forget.

jimbobalob309 · 13-10-2017 07:56PM

rose is clearly a bit mentally stressed at the moment and her twitter hysterics certainly isnt helping matters but to imply you posted that picture of her half naked and say its to show that she's a "intelligent smart woman" is just the funniest thing ive heard all day. especially when put in context wit the rest of ur post which is basically 'she wasn't raped because she didnt take the man down straight away and she took money instead" - not a donkey's arse of a notion of the complexities of sex crimes and their victims so.

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Allegedly. I'm sure he's guilty of a lot of what he has been accused of, rape though? I'm not as convinced.

well thats that sorted so. /end thread. next.

Outlaw Pete · 13-10-2017 08:37PM

jimbobalob309 wrote: »

....to imply you posted that picture of her half naked and say its to show that she's a "intelligent smart woman" is just the funniest thing ive heard all day.

Again: Rose posted a picture on Twitter of herself all demure, with a flower in her hair, and said that was the girl hurt by the monster. I said I certainly don't remember her like that (I'm of her generation) and then posted the image of how most people my age group would remember her (in her Marilyn Manson dating days).

As for my saying she is intelligent and sharp back then, she was, go watch any of her old interviews from back then and you'll see she was and so that begs the question why is being so manipulative and trying to get us to see late 90's Rose as this naive young girl. As does her appearing in many photos with Harvey over the coming years and going on to work with him again, beg the question: how could she do that after what she has alleged he has done.

strandroad wrote: »

She said she was raped by a powerful producer many times, and in the context when it was easy to connect the dots.

Well, let's look at what she said right after she claims Harvey raped her:

https://twitter.com/rosemcgowan/status/917848581540757504

Now, assuming Rose told Ben the truth, that would mean Ben Affleck (on hearing that Harvey raped her) effectively said:

GODDAMNIT! I TOLD HIM TO STOP [raping girls]”

Or...

GODDAMNIT! I TOLD HIM TO STOP [sexually assaulting girls]”

Doesn't it make more sense that Rose had a pretty much similar experience to all the other women? Don't Ben's comments make far more sense in the context of Harvey having asked her to watch him shower or for a massage or whatever and she reluctantly agreed. Just doesn't add up that Affleck would respond that way after having been told what she now claims she told him. If it turns out I'm wrong and he did rape her, then I hope he does time for it.

I can't stand Ben Affleck by the way. Asshole of the highest order but don't think he's such an asshole that he would be so blasé about a young woman being sexually assaulted / raped.

13-10-2017 09:21PM

People can behave in inexplicable ways when they're traumatized.

There's little to be gained from trying to discern the level of criminality of any act from snippets of interviews, later tweets, minor points of wording, and least of all from the attire of a person who may or may not have been acting out after what may (or may not) have been a brutal assault. It's all so very easy to judge, when it's not you.

Predictable though.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz · 13-10-2017 09:36PM

Kaya Jones, one of the earlier members of the Pussycat Dolls music band, has implied that she was forced into a prostitution ring while in the band. She also publicly questions why another member of the band committed suicide:

Please excuse the awful link to Perez Hilton. The dailyedge.ie had a link but deleted it...

http://perezhilton.com/2017-10-13-kaya-jones-pussycat-dolls-prostitution-ring-sexual-harassment/?from=post
https://www.dailyedge.ie/pussycat-dolls-kaya-jones-abuse-3646069-Oct2017/

There have been rumours too regarding certain modelling agencies, (one in particular) that is supposedly little more than a front group for high level prostitution for rich Middle Eastern businessmen, powerful brokers, movie moguls etc. They say the organisation is..."heavenly" wink wink.

Here's an article from a few weeks ago that might have passed into history without notice until the events this week. It makes you wonder about what is going on behind the surface in modelling too. Rumours and allegations have been a common feature regarding alleged abuse...

A young model has claimed prostitution is rife within the fashion industry after she was offered cash to sleep with wealthy men.

London-based model Jazz Egger, who recently turned 20, makes the extraordinary claim that 'big agencies' and 'established models' are involved in seedy underground dealings, with young women paid up to $2million (£1.54million) to spend the night with male clients.

Shockingly, Jazz claims she was even told that two young supermodels who have become household names have 'spent time' with men for money in order to get ahead in their career.

Austrian-born Jazz said she was first propositioned last summer after meeting an agent at an exclusive London club, who offered her an 'image modelling job' which involved a Greek yacht trip with three 'millionaires'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4832268/Model-exposes-prostitution-fashion-industry.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK

IMO, if grown adults are mutually consenting to exchanging gifts and money for sex, that is their business.

But it's the one who are being pressured, bullied, intimidated, and forced into it that concerns me.
And from what I'm hearing, that number is shockingly large.

Earthhorse · 13-10-2017 09:43PM

It seems to me like lots of people are coming forward saying they've been victims but are still unwilling to take that final step and name the perpetrator. I get how difficult that is but nothing will change until naming the guilty becomes the norm.

Biggest lickspittle on boardz · 13-10-2017 09:55PM

Here's an interesting 10 point list regarding paedophilia and alleged abuse in Hollywood. Interesting reading regarding former child star Leonardo DiCaprio's former manager:

Bob Villard was one of the biggest child managers in the industry. He represented some of the most famous young names in Hollywood, including Leonardo DiCaprio and Tobey Maguire—but if the system had worked correctly, he would not have been allowed anywhere near any of them.Even before DiCaprio started acting, in 1987, Villard was charged with possession of child pornography. The prosecution, though, failed to prove it in court—and so Villard went free and kept working with kids.

It took until 2001 before they got him in jail. Villard was caught with a whole collection of sexually explicit pictures of young boys. He lost the case, went to jail, and the world became a safer place—for a while anyway, until Villard got out and immediately went right back to managing children.It did not take long before Villard hurt someone. By 2005, he was caught sexually assaulting a 13-year-old boy he had courted as a client. Villard was sent back behind bars and his career finally ended—but there is no telling how many other clients he may have assaulted that never came forward.The courts did not seem particularly surprised by Villard’s abuse. “That’s what’s done,” the District Attorney told the press. “This is all normal in the industry.”

https://listverse.com/2017/02/26/10-disturbing-stories-about-hollywoods-pedophile-problem/

:eek:

retro:electro · 13-10-2017 09:59PM

Jesus that last line is horrific.

Ulysses Gaze · 13-10-2017 10:17PM

Biggest lickspittle on boardz wrote: »

Kaya Jones, one of the earlier members of the Pussycat Dolls music band, has implied that she was forced into a prostitution ring while in the band. She also publicly questions why another member of the band committed suicide:

Please excuse the awful link to Perez Hilton. The dailyedge.ie had a link but deleted it...

http://perezhilton.com/2017-10-13-kaya-jones-pussycat-dolls-prostitution-ring-sexual-harassment/?from=post
https://www.dailyedge.ie/pussycat-dolls-kaya-jones-abuse-3646069-Oct2017/

There have been rumours too regarding certain modelling agencies, (one in particular) that is supposedly little more than a front group for high level prostitution for rich Middle Eastern businessmen, powerful brokers, movie moguls etc. They say the organisation is..."heavenly" wink wink.

Here's an article from a few weeks ago that might have passed into history without notice until the events this week. It makes you wonder about what is going on behind the surface in modelling too. Rumours and allegations have been a common feature regarding alleged abuse...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4832268/Model-exposes-prostitution-fashion-industry.html?ito=social-twitter_dailymailUK

IMO, if grown adults are mutually consenting to exchanging gifts and money for sex, that is their business.

But it's the one who are being pressured, bullied, intimidated, and forced into it that concerns me.
And from what I'm hearing, that number is shockingly large.

Google Sanela Jenkins Room 23

NIMAN · 13-10-2017 10:22PM

Can I play devil's advocate here?

If this man has raped women then he needs to be dealt with the full force of the law and do time.

But......

If he said to women, "you need to have sex with me to get a job" and they agree and do it, I think it's rather hypocritical for them to do it, get a decent career, then years after the event, when they are rich and famous, start complaining.

They could always have said no and turned their back on him.

Harvey Weinstein scandal (Mod warning in op.)

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