Irish lads

Agricola · 13-10-2017 11:52AM

The funerals thing is an interesting paradox. No formality, no innate awkwardness around death, especially with the older generation. Deaths are usually community events where the life of the deceased is celebrated. People love a good funeral in general.

But on the flip side you have the kind of emotional shutdown spoken about in this thread, which feeds into the very high suicide rate, esp among young males. People who may need help are abandoned largely, and then when they end their lives, everyone comes out of the woodwork to commiserate.

wakka12 · 13-10-2017 12:03PM

Thats interesting because my friend and I were discussing this when we were flying back from Canada a few weeks ago. We found it funny how youd see groups of irish students on the bus or wherever and their conversations are so small talky..these are obviously good friends if they came on holidays together but their conversations all seemed so fluffy and boring really, like any random combination of people, strangers or not, any age or personality, could have been placed in the conversation instead and it wouldnt have had any impact on the quality of conversation..
And I know youll say oh youre just seeing them talking in public place..well canadian friends talking together was different. They seemed so much closer by the way they talked, they talked about interesting things,and it actually seemed like people were getting to know eachother even if it was just 'small talk' or similar

OldMrBrennan83 · 13-10-2017 12:04PM

This post has been deleted.

pilly · 13-10-2017 12:28PM

I agree to a certain extent OP that Irish men can find it difficult to really talk about stuff but on the other hand I think the American and Canadian approach can be a bit false. They tell everyone they love them and they'll be there for them etc. etc. but how much do they really mean it? Are they really there for each other when it comes to it?

If you can find one good friend in Ireland you'll have someone who is genuinely there for you for life.

bigar · 13-10-2017 02:55PM

Pero_Bueno wrote: »

Irish lads are more open and honest and what you see is what you get.

Talking as Non Irish resident of 15 years, I strongly disagree. Irish people are one of the most superficial people I know and I feel they all hide behind a mask.

It is very hard to get through their armour. Women are even harder to get through to as they put up a shield of "fakeness". It needs a lot of hard work to become close to Irish people.

Alf Veedersane · 13-10-2017 03:35PM

bigar wrote: »

Talking as Non Irish resident of 15 years, I strongly disagree. Irish people are one of the most superficial people I know and I feel they all hide behind a mask.

It is very hard to get through their armour. Women are even harder to get through to as they put up a shield of "fakeness". It needs a lot of hard work to become close to Irish people.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. I've found that people of all nationalities tend to be more 'honest' the older they get.

But I do think that we can be guarded around people we don't know and it takes a bit of getting to know people to get to that 'honest' person.

Sure, there are plenty that are fake and put up a shield but I don't think that's the majority, objectively. That said, people who experience otherwise will disagree.

Anyway, I don't think that's hugely relevant either way. You go through life and you might have lots of friends but you could probably count close friends and people you can open up to on one hand, regardless of where you're from.

server down · 13-10-2017 03:45PM

Arsemageddon wrote: »

Saying it's all Irish men is both a cliché and an excuse. You should be capable of being your own man regardless of what others think of you

If people don't accept you for who you are they are just acquaintances, not friends.

He didn’t. He asked was it.

My long term friends aren’t that deep really. We get together to joke, talk ****e, drink, sometimes I play sports with some of them. I’ve gone on cycling holidays with others. While ago though.

Not sure about the state of their marrriages or much else. Maybe they have existential dread everyday. Maybe they are seeing a shrink. Anyway acquaintanceship is a reward on its own. You can buck someone up on a night out by having a good night out.

mzungu · 13-10-2017 04:00PM

bigar wrote: »

Talking as Non Irish resident of 15 years, I strongly disagree. Irish people are one of the most superficial people I know and I feel they all hide behind a mask.

It is very hard to get through their armour. Women are even harder to get through to as they put up a shield of "fakeness". It needs a lot of hard work to become close to Irish people.

Everyone puts on an act. Granted, some more so than others, but you will find that everywhere and it is not a trait of one nationality or another. The Irish are no different to anybody else in that regard.

al87987 · 13-10-2017 04:18PM

I think most Irish lads default mode is banter/craic, especially in a group, so when somebody does change up the mood with a more serious topic, it can be dismissed or glossed over.

I've missed out on some massive info in some of my best friends lives (parents with cancer, divorce etc..) because they wouldn't bring it up.

server down · 13-10-2017 04:23PM

al87987 wrote: »

I think most Irish lads default mode is banter/craic, especially in a group, so when somebody does change up the mood with a more serious topic, it can be dismissed or glossed over.

I've missed out on some massive info in some of my best friends lives (parents with cancer, divorce etc..) because they wouldn't bring it up.

Yeh. A long term friend of mine has a father with parkinson's disease. He never really talks about it, and I have asked one on one. With the larger group of friends we just nave the "bants", as the kids say.

Not that theres anything wrong with that, a good night out can cure some worries, lighten your mood etc.

Alf Veedersane · 13-10-2017 04:25PM

al87987 wrote: »

I think most Irish lads default mode is banter/craic, especially in a group, so when somebody does change up the mood with a more serious topic, it can be dismissed or glossed over.

I've missed out on some massive info in some of my best friends lives (parents with cancer, divorce etc..) because they wouldn't bring it up.

I lived with one of my best mates. When my Mam died from cancer, he actually didn't skirt around it...he knew that I would be happier to talk about it. I was. I didn't want to mourn - I did plenty of that on my own - but I did want to talk about it, about her and he was happy to be part of that.

Again, it's n=1 but just an observation that lads aren't just craic addicts.

dd972 · 13-10-2017 05:45PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Maybe you're hanging around with the wrong people. I'm 'bookish' and have never been regarded as a girl. That would be a downright odd insult in the first place.

If someone said I was a girl, for reading, I'd honestly take no notice, and assume they were just dim.

I had work bullying situations in mind when I was typing my comment, I'm one of those people who seems different after people engage me in conversation as to what they're thinking or guessing about me beforehand, I envy extroverts in the sense that people seem to 'get them' more easily, sort of 'what you see is what you get'.

freshpopcorn · 13-10-2017 05:51PM

al87987 wrote: »

I've missed out on some massive info in some of my best friends lives (parents with cancer, divorce etc..) because they wouldn't bring it up.

A few years ago a family member had cancer and we wanted to keep it private in the family. A friend found out(log story) they drove me mad with questions and couldn't understand it was a private family matter and I didn't want to sit down and cry about it!

Shemale · 13-10-2017 10:55PM

There is still that stigma of man up and you have to be a hard man and it's utter bollox. My mam was diagnosed with Alzheimer's 7 years ago and it's only mam and dad at home now and he has already seen his mam and my other granny deteriorate and die from Alzheimer's, I can't imagine what he is going through seeing the love of his life going downhill with it knowing how bad it is going to get.

I try really hard to get him talk and most of the time he doesn't want to but when he does invariably he breaks down and when I hug him he always says something along the lines of "I am so weak" or "I am a wimp" and I tell him not to be so stupid, this is clearly ingrained in him from society as his dad died when he was 8 so it can't have been from him.

There has been an increase in highlighting the issue of mens mental health but at the same time there doesn't seem to be much information about number of suicides, I have no doubt a high number of these single car collisons are suicides.

The RSA number is always floated about but I don't recall hearing the suicide numbers, there sadly is still very much a stigma around mental health which really doesn't help.

In relation to chatting in the pub, my best mates and I have been friends decades, we are all married with young kids and only 3 of us are still in the area and we work different hours so the only time we meet up is in the pub maybe twice a month if we are lucky.

We always talked things through and helped each other and then the middle of the night my wife got a call from a friend of mine saying he was calling over in 2 minutes as he had to talk to me, worried about what might be going on with him I was at the door and when I saw his face my heart sank.

One of the lads was out of work on stress leave and kept it to himself and told the wife she was not to tell us, he ended up taking his life and leaving his wife and kids behind. Not one of us had a clue what he was battling with so now we don't know what we could have done if anything had we known, we were all sure all problems had been shared among the group and well managed so now we are all on a whatsapp and if anyone doesn't get involved for a few days we reach out to them.

We found out after that withdrawing from friends and family is a classic sign that someone is depressed, before we lost our friend we would have been ripping the piss out of someone who had gone off the radar asking if the missus has taken the phone or if he is not allowed to talk to the lads anymore.

For any lads reading this I would just say be mindful of changes in your friends behaviour especially if they suddenly withdraw from the group, pay them a visit and don't involve drink as this can make the depression worse.

Irish lads

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