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Half a million Pagans in the Country.

124678

Comments

  • #92
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 14,242 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    And this is why the Church should be forcibly removed from influence on State schools. They can run their own religious schools if they so wish.
    But that's exactly what they're already doing.

    They've built schools on their own land, just like the other churches, at a time when nobody else would ... Any group is free to do the same.


  • #93
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Pity the figures dont reveal the cultural catholics or the ones who ticked catholic to keep mammy happy

    Ah yes, the bouncy castle Catholics,
    those that want little jimmy or Mary to have a day out at the communion but the hate going to mass in the months and weeks before hand, The least 10% of which don't actually believe in a God. (number from Catholic bishops survey)

    But sure it'll be lovely, they'll get a day out, money and they play dress up.

    If you put your kid through communion or confirmation for anything other then your religious beliefs then you're an idiot


  • #94
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    I'm an admin on Ireland's largest LGBT message boards and the amount of gay men over the age of 45 who identify as Catholic on their profiles is very high. Given the way the Church has treated LGBT people, you would think this quite baffling but indoctrination from early childhood and subsequent social conditioning is a very powerful thing.

    Ergo why most people want church weddings, their children baptised, religious funerals etc. indoctrination is a very powerful force.

    And this is why the Church should be forcibly removed from influence on State schools. They can run their own religious schools if they so wish.

    I'm not sure if it's indoctrination at all; actually I find writing it off as such to be a self-satisfying cop out from developing a serious analysis. And, to be frank, not a little patronising.

    People need belief in something. Even atheists need it. It's a bit hard to endure the toil and Sisyphean struggle of a life that ultimately ends in pain for each of us and our loved ones (no exceptions!) without attaching some form of meaning, of belief, to our individual existence. It's when the belief in the purposefulness of life goes that the idea of suicide enters.

    People compartmentalise and excuse things precisely because they need belief. That belief may be in a god (and actions by its supposed church can be ignored), or it may be an attachment to the continuation of a way of life, of a civilisation (and actions by its soldiers, child-exploiting clothing corporations, etc can be ignored). That is part of the reason why heroes, religious or secular, are so staunchly defended by believers.

    Ernest Becker's Pulitzer Prize-winning Denial of Death has a fantastic study of the very rational roles played by belief, immortality, heroism and denial in human nature. It should be compulsory reading.


  • #95
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »
    But that's exactly what they're already doing.

    They've built schools on their own land, just like the other churches, at a time when nobody else would ... Any group is free to do the same.

    Nonsense, the early Irish government basically outsourced our education and health to the catholic church because that's what the church wanted. (get those kids early and you'll own them for life).

    This country was well capable of doing education and health without the catholic church.

    Of course if the catholic church wants to have its own schools, that's fine by me. But the Irish tax payer shouldn't be paying for the building or staffing costs.

    If the Irish tax payer pays for the teachers then it should be calling the shots.

    It's actually shockingly sad,
    we have people outraged about the idea of outsourcing our water management to a private company. But some idiots have no issue with our education system being run by an organisation that is run by another country (Vatican), at the end of the day the Irish government has confirmed this is exactly what it did.


  • #96
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Ah yes, the bouncy castle Catholics,
    those that want little jimmy or Mary to have a day out at the communion but the hate going to mass in the months and weeks before hand, The least 10% of which don't actually believe in a God. (number from Catholic bishops survey)

    But sure it'll be lovely, they'll get a day out, money and they play dress up.

    If you put your kid through communion or confirmation for anything other then your religious beliefs then you're an idiot

    Don't forget to baptise your childs education prospects everyone, esp you rural types.


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  • #97
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Donal55


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Nonsense, the early Irish government basically outsourced our education and health to the catholic church because that's what the church wanted. (get those kids early and you'll own them for life).

    This country was well capable of doing education and health without the catholic church.

    Of course if the catholic church wants to have its own schools, that's fine by me. But the Irish tax payer shouldn't be paying for the building or staffing costs.

    If the Irish tax payer pays for the teachers then it should be calling the shots.

    It's actually shockingly sad,
    we have people outraged about the idea of outsourcing our water management to a private company. But some idiots have no issue with our education system being run by an organisation that is run by another country (Vatican), at the end of the day the Irish government has confirmed this is exactly what it did.


    And the above argument is the very reason why parents who have no relationship with religion get their kids baptised, communion and confirmed.
    Kids have to go to school, but on conditions.


  • #98
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    People need belief in something. Even atheists need it. It's a bit hard to endure the toil and Sisyphean struggle of a life that ultimately ends in pain for each of us and our loved ones (no exceptions!) without attaching some form of meaning, of belief, .

    Wow,
    atheism means a lack of belief for starters so you appear to be slighly clueless about the use of the word.

    Some people find life hard, they use belief in a "supreme force" as a cop out from facing reality. It's basically a crutch for them to get through life.

    Life isn't a struggle, it's what it is. We live, we die, we don't live forever. These are simple facts.

    Of course if you need to believe in a religion to get through life that's fine. But don't push it on others and don't be so foolish as to think everyone else needs the crutch that you need to get through life.

    Religions like the catholic religion don't celebrate life. They morn it and hope for something better (being with God etc) after death. That's an awful way to look at your life.


  • #99
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Donal55 wrote: »
    And the above argument is the very reason why parents who have no relationship with religion get their kids baptised, communion and confirmed.
    Kids have to go to school, but on conditions.

    So many times I've spoken to parents about this and they'll say they don't believe in any of it. But they don't want their kid "left out" by not doing communion etc.

    Of course in "communion year" in primary level Catholic religion and communion prep can take up 20% of school time, this is frankly insane and a waste of tax payers money.

    The simple solution is take communion prep entirely out of schools and do it on Sundays or after school, this will ensure the very underused church's are used more and parents are far more involved. Religion is very much a personal thing and it shouldn't be the tax payers job to fit the bill for any religious events of any faith, by it catholic, Jewish etc

    Of course the Catholic church would fight such a change tooth and nail. Why?

    Cause they know people wouldn't bother with it, funny that....


  • #100
    Donal55
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Donal55


    Cabaal wrote: »
    So many times I've talk to parents about this and they'll say they don't believe in any of it. But they don't want their kid "left out" by not doing communion etc.

    Of course in "communion year" in primary level Catholic religion and communion prep can take up 20% of school time, this is frankly insane and a waste of tax payers money.

    The simple solution is take communion prep entirely out of schools and do it on Sundays, this will ensure the very underused church's are used more and parents are far more involved. Religion is very much a personal thing and it shouldn't be the tax payers job to fit the bill for any religious events of any faith, by it catholic, Jewish etc

    Of course the Catholic church would fight such a change tooth and nail. Why?

    Cause they know people wouldn't bother with it, funny that....

    The only thing I think I can thank the Labour Party for in trying to break the link.


  • #101
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 2,032 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You can still evidence of pagan activity around, if you’ve ever come across one of these in a field you can be sure pagans were there recently

    druid-500x500.png


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  • #102
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    Donal55 wrote: »
    The only thing I think I can thank the Labour Party for in trying to break the link.

    It'll break eventually, more and more people each year are not having religious weddings. More and more parents are opting children out of Catholic religion classes.

    In time it'll reach a tipping point when there is no other option but to change.

    Imagine for example where 25 kids are in a class but 14 of them are not Catholic (Muslim, atheist etc) and have opted out of Catholic religion classes and communion prep. The school can't just leave more then half the class colouring in pictures while the teach the catholic faith. That would be 14 students doing nothing productive for 20% of that school year and 10% of every other year at primary level.

    I know of one person who has a child in a very rural school and they are not happy about communion this year,, if they opted their child out it would mean 1\6th of the class would be left colouring in pictures etc during communion year.


  • #103
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    lazybones32 wrote: »
    Do you know what wednesday and friday mean in irish?

    First fast and fast!


  • #104
    Anesthetize
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,468 ✭✭✭Anesthetize


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Wow,
    atheism means a lack of belief for starters so you appear to be slighly clueless about the use of the word.

    Some people find life hard, they use belief in a "supreme force" as a cop out from facing reality. It's basically a crutch for them to get through life.

    Life isn't a struggle, it's what it is. We live, we die, we don't live forever. These are simple facts.

    Of course if you need to believe in a religion to get through life that's fine. But don't push it on others and don't be so foolish as to think everyone else needs the crutch that you need to get through life.

    Religions like the catholic religion don't celebrate life. They morn it and hope for something better (being with God etc) after death. That's an awful way to look at your life.
    In a way I sort of get what he's saying. But I wouldn't use the word 'belief', as it seems to suggest that religion is the only thing that can get you through life (which it isn't).

    Not everyone needs a crutch to get themselves through life but some people just need something to give them hope due to whatever circumstances. But this can manifest itself in the form of being a die-hard football fan, or a being a music fanatic, rather than devoting to organised religion.


  • #105
    ezra_pound
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,497 ✭✭✭ezra_pound


    ezra_pound wrote: »
    First fast and fast!

    Thursday is literally the day between two fast days.


  • #106
    jimbobaloobob
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,153 ✭✭✭jimbobaloobob


    Half a million people who believe in nothing.
    Doesn't that make it a belief system?


  • #107
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    Life is pointless...:)


  • #108
    BigAl81
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,031 ✭✭✭BigAl81


    jimbobaloobob wrote:
    Half a million people who believe in nothing. Doesn't that make it a belief system?


    No!


  • #109
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    jimbobaloobob wrote: »
    Half a million people who believe in nothing.
    Doesn't that make it a belief system?

    Does not liking football make you a football fan?

    If you don't have a belief that that means it can't be a belief system. It's very basic stuff.


  • #110
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Wow,
    atheism means a lack of belief for starters so you appear to be slighly clueless about the use of the word.

    Eh, it means lack of belief in a god. In a god. It does not mean a lack of belief. Yes, egg everywhere.
    atheist (n.)
    1570s, "godless person, one who denies the existence of a supreme, intelligent being to whom moral obligation is due," from French athéiste (16c.), from Greek atheos "without god, denying the gods; abandoned of the gods; godless, ungodly," from a- "without" (see a- (3)) + theos "a god" (from PIE root *dhes-, forming words for religious concepts).


  • #111
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Of course if you need to believe in a religion to get through life that's fine. But don't push it on others and don't be so foolish as to think everyone else needs the crutch that you need to get through life.

    That you assume people who reject your certainty about the non-existence of a god believe in a god is the pathetic little contrarian dichotomy you've had to create in your head. The only one pushing things here is your fine self. And the more you feel the need to insist you're right the more you don't actually sound very certain.

    And what, by the way, is your "crutch" oh heroic atheist as you sneer at people whose "crutch" is religion? Alcohol? gambling? over indulgence? The smugness is fierce delusional.


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  • #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Nonsense, the early Irish government basically outsourced our education and health to the catholic church because that's what the church wanted. (get those kids early and you'll own them for life).


    Speaking of "nonsense", here are two facts. First, 'the early Irish government' didn't create a sectarian education system: they inherited it from colonial rule. Second, as the state from that rule was, and in fact remains, an institutionally Protestant and explicitly anti-Catholic state, it's a bit rich - some might say bigoted - to single out the RCC for embracing sectarian education when the state education was/is just as sectarian.


  • #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Ah yes, the bouncy castle Catholics,
    those that want little jimmy or Mary to have a day out at the communion but the hate going to mass in the months and weeks before hand, The least 10% of which don't actually believe in a God. (number from Catholic bishops survey)

    But sure it'll be lovely, they'll get a day out, money and they play dress up.

    If you put your kid through communion or confirmation for anything other then your religious beliefs then you're an idiot

    Why do you care so much about the choice of other people? All this name calling. Why are you so angry about what other people do with their lives? All this anger that other people don't share your beliefs is not exactly inspiring admiration for your own personal nirvana up there on your high and zealously self-righteous horse drìpping with a certainty about everything that John Charles McQuaid himself would envy.


  • #114
    Tin Foil Hat
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,671 ✭✭✭Tin Foil Hat


    VinLieger wrote: »
    Pity the figures dont reveal the cultural catholics or the ones who ticked catholic to keep mammy happy

    Or the ones where Mammy ticked the box on their behalf.


  • #115
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 13,710 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Why do you care so much about the choice of other people? All this name calling. Why are you so angry about what other people do with their lives? All this anger that other people don't share your beliefs is not exactly inspiring admiration for your own personal nirvana up there on your high and zealously self-righteous horse drìpping with a certainty about everything that John Charles McQuaid himself would envy.


    The irony of your posts is something to behold. You attack posters for criticising the RCC and its past (and indeed current) abuse of power and defend those who hold staunchly Catholic religious views and practices yet you yourself display clear contempt for those who hold other opinions.

    The 1950s aren't coming back any time soon. Accept a changing Ireland or remain entrenched.


  • #116
    54and56
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,888 ✭✭✭54and56


    Donal55 wrote: »
    Well, the figures are out. Not since before St.Patrick has there been as many non believers in this Fair Isle.

    The number of Catholics have fallen to almost 78% of the population and the second largest group are the Pagans.

    Muslims on the rise and Prods on the wane.
    Changing times according to the latest Census Figures.

    The irony of someone who can't read starting a thread about what (presumably) he has mis read. :-)


  • #117
    nagdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭nagdefy


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    Life is pointless...:)

    That fella needs to do something about his self esteem and get treated for his depression :)

    A good night on the town would do him the world of good.. and his monotone voice..


  • #118
    nagdefy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,520 ✭✭✭nagdefy


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Don't forget to baptise your childs education prospects everyone, esp you rural types.

    'You rural types'.

    A superior 'urbane' person who probably couldn't set a mouse trap has spoken ;)


  • #119
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,094 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    The irony of your posts is something to behold. You attack posters for criticising the RCC and its past (and indeed current) abuse of power and defend those who hold staunchly Catholic religious views and practices yet you yourself display clear contempt for those who hold other opinions.

    The 1950s aren't coming back any time soon. Accept a changing Ireland or remain entrenched.

    Actually I'm not defending those who hold such views; I'm defending their right to hold them. That the nuance wilfully eludes you is not my issue. Moreover, I'm rejecting these little online personas that sneer at people with religious belief as being irrational while they themselves embrace a whole raft of bullshít (usually of a commercial nature) to give them comfort and solace in life. It's not only religion which gives people meaning and delusion so the little conceits of superiority are misplaced.


  • #120
    Zebra3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,136 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    Anesthetize wrote: »
    The Egyptian god Horus:

    Was born on December 25th
    Was born to a virgin
    Walked on water
    Was crucified and then resurrected
    Performed miracles

    Does this seem familiar?

    I too enjoyed Zeitgeist. :)

    I'd guess that many of our victims of the great con, I mean Christian believers, would be too scared to watch it.

    Ignorance is bliss......


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  • #121
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,582 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Why do you care so much about the choice of other people? All this name calling. Why are you so angry about what other people .

    Name calling and angry?
    I'm certainly not angry and I've not called names.

    I care about our backwards education system because very simply it uses tax payer money to discriminate against children using religion . This is shocking in this day and age.

    This state should not be paying for any religion to be pushed on its people.

    As I said, religion and belief is a very personal thing. Practice it if you wish, raise your children in it if you wish, but don't expect the government to indoctrinate your children.

    Also, we have seen the many failings caused by allowing the church the control it has and its ruined thousands of people's lives in this country. The church is still in denial mode to the countless victims they inflicted pain and suffering on.

    They have proven that as an organisation from the very top they cannot be trusted to keep the vulnerable in the best interest.


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