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Second Captains

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Pter wrote: »
    Sorry jeez yes - was talking to someone from Finland in work just before posting that. Iceland. Iceland.

    Well his point was that the players havent been given a chance.....that maybe both the league and Int team can benefit from a change in thinking with regards to attitudes towards the league.

    The level of our players has been in decline IMO for 10 years (in terms of numbers of our players playing in the Prem and/or for a big club in the Prem).

    That is continuing now, with our 'best' players playing for Burnley, who are a mid level Prem club. If the decline continues to the point where league 1 players are getting into the Ireland squad; then why not LOI players?

    What makes a player who moves to the UK to play for a championship side better than a player getting games regularly for a LOI team/playing in the Europa league?

    Full disclosure: i havent been to a LOI game in years and the last one was utter dogsh!te, hence why i stopped going; but the league is always going to be utter dogsh!te unless the standard is raised and the churn of good players going to the UK is slowed.

    Look I just don’t see the case to be made for trying lads from the LOI.i think it’s pretty easy to argue against it. Perhaps that will change but I just don’t see why it would currently.

    For Ken’s argument to hold any water he needed to be able to name 3 players in the LOI currently who could be considered for a call-up. Without that as a base level to his argument it was frankly just pie in the sky.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Look I just don’t see the case to be made for trying lads from the LOI.i think it’s pretty easy to argue against it. Perhaps that will change but I just don’t see why it would currently.

    For Ken’s argument to hold any water he needed to be able to name 3 players in the LOI currently who could be considered for a call-up. Without that as a base level to his argument it was frankly just pie in the sky.

    So in order for him to prove that LOI players arent being given a chance, 3 LOI players need to have been given a chance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Pter wrote: »
    So in order for him to prove that LOI players arent being given a chance, 3 LOI players need to have been given a chance.

    No I didnt say that at all.

    To repeat myself- Ken needs to put forward the names of players that he thinks should be getting a chance or else he’s just saying they should get a chance while not providing a single name of one that should.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    No I didnt say that at all.

    To repeat myself- Ken needs to put forward the names of players that he thinks should be getting a chance or else he’s just saying they should get a chance while not providing a single name of one that should.

    Ah ok. No i dont think he could do that alright. The best 5-6 players in the league from the last 2 years that would fall into that bracket moved abroad. Would have been able to fulfil those criteria a year ago though.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Pter wrote: »
    Ah ok. No i dont think he could do that alright. The best 5-6 players in the league from the last 2 years that would fall into that bracket moved abroad. Would have been able to fulfil those criteria a year ago though.

    If the likes of Sean Maguire were been produced at LOI level once a season then I think he would have a strong argument but thought it was complete pie in the sky to suggest we should pick the best in LOI now considering he didn’t name a single player to consider


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Ok we may have to agree to disagree because for me he was saying there needs to be a shift away from thinking proving oneself in the LOI is less than proving oneself over in the UK.

    Because there is no point in picking players from the LOI at the moment; you are right they arent up to standard. But the standard is coming down, and other teams are using players from similar level leagues to the LOI and making it work.

    He cant point to people who have stayed in the LOI and deserve a call up because any that have come close, or even gotten into the Ire squad have soon after moved to the UK. If that's your standard for saying whether LOI players should be called up or not, im not going to try changing your mind; but id love to see a better league and a better international team (both, not one or the other) and it has been shown by Iceland you can pick local based players and compete internationally. Why not us?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Pter wrote: »
    Ok we may have to agree to disagree because for me he was saying there needs to be a shift away from thinking proving oneself in the LOI is less than proving oneself over in the UK.

    Because there is no point in picking players from the LOI at the moment; you are right they arent up to standard. But the standard is coming down, and other teams are using players from similar level leagues to the LOI and making it work.

    He cant point to people who have stayed in the LOI and deserve a call up because any that have come close, or even gotten into the Ire squad have soon after moved to the UK. If that's your standard for saying whether LOI players should be called up or not, im not going to try changing your mind; but id love to see a better league and a better international team (both, not one or the other) and it has been shown by Iceland you can pick local based players and compete internationally. Why not us?

    Are Icelandic players coming from their local league? checked the eleven that beat England and none of the players were playing club in Iceland and none of them had played in Icelands league recently


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Dots1982 wrote: »
    Are Icelandic players coming from their local league? checked the eleven that beat England and none of the players were playing club in Iceland and none of them had played in Icelands league recently

    Checked the entire squad on soccerway and seems not a single player comes from their local league. Seems the last time any of their present squad were contracted to an Icelandic club was 2013.

    Seems to me journalists in Iceland could be looking at ireland and saying we should be more like them and pick players from their local or just out of their local league.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Dots1982 wrote:
    Checked the entire squad on soccerway and seems not a single player comes from their local league. Seems the last time any of their present squad were contracted to an Icelandic club was 2013.


    Before or after the last euros?

    Because of their success they were picked up from the Icelandic league. But they obtained that success at home afaik.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,957 ✭✭✭Dots1982


    Pter wrote: »
    Dots1982 wrote:
    Checked the entire squad on soccerway and seems not a single player comes from their local league. Seems the last time any of their present squad were contracted to an Icelandic club was 2013.


    Before or after the last euros?

    Because of their success they were picked up from the Icelandic league. But they obtained that success at home afaik.

    No player from Icelandic team that beat england was contracted to Iceland league team and no player from current squad according soccerway was contracted to Icelandic league team since about 2013.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Dots1982 wrote:
    No player from Icelandic team that beat england was contracted to Iceland league team and no player from current squad according soccerway was contracted to Icelandic league team since about 2013.


    Well I stand corrected that we should be following their model it thats correct.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Say Your Number


    I did laugh at Ken talking about O'Neill's new contract "What was he going to do, present a new morning weekend show on Newstalk"


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,579 ✭✭✭✭dastardly00




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 723 ✭✭✭PhilipsR


    The Tom Petty outro today was pretty incredible. Has me going for tonight already.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Better get the episode listened to before the game tonight: after 9 45 it'll sound like a historical artifact.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Arghus wrote: »
    Better get the episode listened to before the game tonight: after 9 45 it'll sound like a historical artifact.

    That reminds me of when we beat Germany a couple of years ago.

    I had to go out after and had the podcast from earlier in the day downloaded so gave it a listen.

    It was just Sadlier giving out the whole time about people being optimistic for the game that night, the game I'd just watch us win. :pac::pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Looking forward to seeing Ireland's greatest sportsperson, David Meyler, in midfield, tonight.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55 ✭✭rufuseric82


    PhilipsR wrote: »
    The Tom Petty outro today was pretty incredible. Has me going for tonight already.

    Agreed. It was superb.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Say Your Number


    Eoin's prediction wasn't too far off :D

    They're usually at their best in reaction to night's like this


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭Ol' Donie


    Permutation ****, just as a phrase, makes me laugh out loud.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,220 ✭✭✭✭Arghus


    Here's Ken's piece for The Times about the game. It's very cogent. Honestly, it is - he's a pretty damn fine football writer in my opinion.
    here have been times in 2017 when Martin O’Neill’s Ireland team have been hard to watch, but it turns out they are even harder to kill. This team fights best when it’s fighting for its life. All those wasted opportunities in the home games against Wales, Austria and Serbia were forgotten on Monday night in Cardiff as James McClean’s belter gave Ireland a famous win and sent them through to the World Cup playoffs.
    The late injury to Shane Long meant Ireland started with Daryl Murphy ahead of a five-man midfield that did not include Wes Hoolahan, as O’Neill went for physical strength and staying power in the face of the anticipated Welsh onslaught. This robust selection proved wise. From long before kick-off there was a sort of electricity in the air that had seldom been felt in Uefa Qualifying Group D. The Welsh fans set the tone, singing their national anthem with spine-tingling fervour, and the team started as though inspired by that energy, taking control of the game from the kick-off and threatening to blow Ireland away.
    The first 20 minutes Wales were a whirlwind and Ireland were clinging on for dear life. The five-man midfield looked porous and after seven minutes Hendrick, Arter and Meyler could be seen in the centre circle in what looked like a heated discussion about what was going wrong.
    Wales had 86 per cent possession over the first 15 minutes and forced five corners in the first 20. And yet the closest they came to scoring was when Ciaran Clark shinned a cross just wide of Randolph’s near post. They had been in full flow but after the flow comes the ebb. And the dynamic began to change, first slowly, then all at once.
    During that first half-hour there was plenty of evidence that Wales were simply on a different level in organisational terms: this is what you can do when you establish a clear football identity. Yet Ireland were still in the game, getting closer, putting in tackles, breaking up play. Then, on 35 minutes, almost unnoticed: the turning point.

    David Meyler and Joe Allen’s collision looked innocuous but Allen stayed down. It turned out to be concussion. When Allen stumbled from the field Wales’ ability to play football went with him. With Allen on the pitch, Wales made it look so easy to find their forwards between the lines and spin it out to the flanks. Without him it was as though their guidance system had short-circuited. The sudden dramatic deterioration in Wales play was a reminder that in football we talk too much about managers and gameplans. It’s no use having a great gameplan if you don’t have the players who can make it work. By half-time it was clear that Ireland had successfully dragged Wales down to their level and it was anyone’s game.
    The big change from the first 20 minutes is that while the away side still had not strung together many spells of control, they were at least pressing Wales further up the pitch, and that is ultimately where the winner came from.
    The decisive moment will be remembered as a horror show for Ashley Williams, but neither could it have happened without the initiative of Hendrick, who sensed the Wales captain might be about to dawdle over a pass from his goalkeeper and sprinted over to press. Hendrick then twisted away from Davies with a turn down the line, just about keeping the ball in play and knocking it towards the corner flag. Williams should have closed him down and cleaned him out but again he was indecisive and allowed Hendrick time to swing over the cross. Harry Arter skipped over it at the near post and there was McClean waiting unmarked, Wales’ executioner, to smash it past Hennessey with his right foot.
    There was a thumping finality to the finish and even though there were 33 minutes still to play you sensed that Wales felt like they were sinking in quicksand. Their dominance in the first 20 minutes was now a haunting memory – it’s hard to redouble your efforts when you know you have already given it your best shot. The crowd tried to rouse them, first with songs and then with curses, but there was no mistaking the sinking feeling around the Cardiff City Stadium. Ireland were too big, too strong, too awkward, Wales could no longer find the gaps. If this was going to be a siege, then Duffy and Clark were ready for it. Duffy in particular was immense in the last quarter of the game, repelling every attack and making 19 clearances in total.
    Wales looked in vain to Aaron Ramsey for inspiration, but he was nowhere to be seen: his ineffectiveness summed up by the shocking free kick he blasted over 10 minutes from the end. The 17-year-old star Ben Woodburn came off the bench but one dangerous diagonal cross aside, he couldn’t make any impact. Wales’ hearts were broken and everyone knew it. The five minutes of injury time sped by. The Irish supporters, kept behind after the final whistle, were still singing 20 minutes later.
    For O’Neill it was hard to imagine a sweeter vindication: four days after unexpectedly agreeing that new contract, he has defied the odds to reach the playoffs. He has won more games away from home against higher-ranked opposition in the last 12 months than Ireland had managed in the previous three decades. Who can bet against his team doing it again next month?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,024 ✭✭✭✭Baggly


    Twas duck for dinner after all.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,116 ✭✭✭Trent Houseboat


    Arghus wrote:
    Here's Ken's piece for The Times about the game. It's very cogent. Honestly, it is - he's a pretty damn fine football writer in my opinion.

    Link for anyone who believes such cogent thinking deserves traffic.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 123 ✭✭Morshlac


    Thoughts Ken's writeup of Ireland v Wales was suberb and a far cry from the bombastic one-note rubbish peddled by alot of Irish Sport commentators/writers.

    IN short we're bad but we got some gumption


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,135 ✭✭✭✭Cienciano


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    LoI fans refer to it as the magic plane. A day or 2 after they fly to England they get a call up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,799 ✭✭✭corwill


    Good auld chuckle at the thought of Duffy being put out to stud in Scotland. Strachan entering the paddock gingerly, making low, soothing noises, Spanish Fly to hand...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,777 ✭✭✭✭Ol' Donie


    Nice to hear Parker & Lovejoy getting a mention the other day.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 12,708 Mod ✭✭✭✭Say Your Number


    "We'll only clean up after ourselves, if there's a chance we'll go viral" Funny cos it's true.


    Wonder will they have that Icelandic fella on again.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,596 ✭✭✭threein99


    CiaranW wrote: »
    On Podcast addict it was an older episode the other day.
    US Murph was talking about the 49ers in London and people should go see Colin Kaepernick.
    They reuploaded though, and I think that was the intentional one.
    I skipped it anyway!

    They mentioned having Kevin Kilbane in studio too to talk about his new book, I was wondering what the hell was going on :D


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭dulux99


    Ah lads. Is there anything more dull than when they get fixated on these Latino commentators shouting about goals. I can't stand it. Nearly crashed the car trying to forward the fecking segment!!


This discussion has been closed.
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