Liam Cosgrave RIP(Mod warning in op and #174)

philstar · 05-10-2017 09:25AM

FTA69 wrote: »

His government introduced censorship in Ireland, banning Republicans from the airways and denying a voice to elected representatives.

everything in context ....at a time when they were bombing the sh!t out of the north and bringing this island to the verge of civil war

touts · 05-10-2017 09:51AM

RIP. He seems to have been a fairly average leader by international standards but in comparison with the likes of Cowen, Bruton, Kenny, Haughey and Ahern he gets pushed into the list of top Taoiseach. When the best you can say is he was a good one because at least he turned up sober, didn't rip us off and was relatively competent at the job then that says more about us than him.

Badabing · 05-10-2017 11:18AM

Sean Lemass was our best ever Taoiseach.

05-10-2017 11:26AM

touts wrote: »

RIP. He seems to have been a fairly average leader by international standards but in comparison with the likes of Cowen, Bruton, Kenny, Haughey and Ahern he gets pushed into the list of top Taoiseach. When the best you can say is he was a good one because at least he turned up sober, didn't rip us off and was relatively competent at the job then that says more about us than him.

Conversely, compared to the likes of Lemass, Costello, Fitzgerald and Enda Kenny, he's distinctly average; probably ranking behind Jack Lynch and perhaps even Albert Reynolds.

In the end, it's only his non-corrupt status that saves his reputation.

philstar · 05-10-2017 11:33AM

Badabing wrote: »

Sean Lemass was our best ever Taoiseach.

no Albert Reynolds was

1. he alongside john major was the main architect of the peace process, which all of us should be eternally grateful

and 2. he wasn't in office long enough to make any major f&ck ups

davycc · 05-10-2017 11:39AM

Good riddance to the old religtard backward looking heavy gang cnut.

Shame he outlived most of his victims.
The original Tory boy covering up justice to the survivors of the biggest mass murder in the state history, Duplin and monaghan bombings.

feargale · 05-10-2017 12:00PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So now Enda is the oldest former Taoiseach at 66, a few months older than Bertie.

John Bruton born 18/5/1947

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-10-2017 01:16PM

Orlando Red Walnut wrote: »

True, he was modest and polite. He carried out major reforms family and labour law and significantly increased social welfare benefits. An honest politician.

Didn't he block contraception reforms for married couples...? Slightly before my time, to be fair.

veryangryman · 05-10-2017 01:20PM

Inherited the job from his Da...i hate when that crap happens in politics. Makes us look like a Monarchy. And yes i know he got elected, just the fact that he'd run annoys me.

diomed · 05-10-2017 01:52PM

Cosgrave was in power when there was a massive recession in the mid-1970s, and did ok.
Then we got shafted by a few chancers.
[Diomed's 20th Century History Of Ireland]

MadYaker · 05-10-2017 02:22PM

veryangryman wrote: »

Inherited the job from his Da...i hate when that crap happens in politics. Makes us look like a Monarchy. And yes i know he got elected, just the fact that he'd run annoys me.

Should he be barred from runnng because his father was Taoiseach? Nonsense.

baylah17 · 05-10-2017 02:45PM

No time for the man
He despised civil liberties and human rights and set the heavy gang loose in the 70s
In my opinion he is undeserving of any state tribute.
He was a bully boy first last and always

veryangryman · 05-10-2017 02:45PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Should he be barred from runnng because his father was Taoiseach? Nonsense.

He gets on a platform because of it. Alot of people also voted for him no doubt because of his father's deeds rather than anything the jr guy does. Its an unfair advantage that prevents new people entering politics in my opinion.

tritium · 05-10-2017 03:04PM

philstar wrote: »

no Albert Reynolds was

1. he alongside john major was the main architect of the peace process, which all of us should be eternally grateful

and 2. he wasn't in office long enough to make any major f&ck ups

There are many ahead of Reynolds for that accolade. Id even put Bruton ahead of him somewhat controversially on the basis that he laid many foundations for what came after him in Irish life.

WHIP IT! · 05-10-2017 03:13PM

Juran wrote: »

He voted against contraception in Ireland in the late 70's / early 80's .... against his own party's majority mandate .... I'm no fan. My grandmother bore 15 kids as the state and church made sure she has no access to contraception ( to keep them poor ) ... and yet cosgrave had only 3 kids. It was well known that people with money were able to buy a 'pill' from their buddy the doctor to prevent pregnancy back then but poor country folk had to be kept down by the Catholic Church and Cosgrove fully supported them.

If only there was some other way that your Grandmother could have not had 15 kids... think, damnit, think....

Cork Boy 53 · 05-10-2017 03:23PM

For me the Cosgrave government of 1973-1977 will always be associated with the Halls Pictorial Weekly sketches of that period. They were very close to the mark.

blanch152 · 05-10-2017 03:25PM

davycc wrote: »

Good riddance to the old religtard backward looking heavy gang cnut.

Shame he outlived most of his victims.
The original Tory boy covering up justice to the survivors of the biggest mass murder in the state history, Duplin and monaghan bombings.

I think you need to take something for that hatred.

The man stood up to the IRA terrorists in the 1970s when they were a real threat to the State, well done I say and RIP.

_Kaiser_ · 05-10-2017 03:25PM

Woodville56 wrote: »

How magnanimous of you - bet you feel better getting that rant of your chest - so how much have you done for your country that you feel competent to insult and demean one who is no longer able to defend himself and who has , by general consensus, been a decent and competent politician. I wouldn’t be a supporter of the Cosgrave era but don’t feel the need to disrespect the dead despite political different views. Fine to be critical of his politics but why the need for the personal insult ?

And yet shots at Haughey seem to be ok? By your logic surely those should be unacceptable too? (regardless of how deserved they may/may not be)

Personally though, I've never been one for "the slate is wiped clean when someone dies, RIP etc etc" ... whether someone deserves well-wishes and praise after death is subject to what they did in life IMO

I was only a kid in the Cosgrave era, but by all accounts he did a decent job for the most part given the times and circumstances of the country.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-10-2017 03:47PM

WHIP IT! wrote: »

If only there was some other way that your Grandmother could have not had 15 kids... think, damnit, think....

... while actually exercising her right to have loving sexual intercourse with (presumebly) her husband? Yes, plelase - do go on.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-10-2017 03:48PM

veryangryman wrote: »

He gets on a platform because of it. Alot of people also voted for him no doubt because of his father's deeds rather than anything the jr guy does. Its an unfair advantage that prevents new people entering politics in my opinion.

i think this tells you more about the electorate than it does about the system or the politician, and **** all has changed since.

05-10-2017 04:03PM

veryangryman wrote: »

Inherited the job from his Da...i hate when that crap happens in politics. Makes us look like a Monarchy. And yes i know he got elected, just the fact that he'd run annoys me.

Does it annoy you that Garret FitzGerald ran for office, too? Winston Churchill? Tony Benn? Justin Trudeau? Benazir Bhutto?

And why not apply the same standard to siblings and spouses too? Robert F. Kennedy? Ted Kennedy? Hillary Clinton?

The fact is, that just like shopkeepers, drapers, doctors, and farmers, a lot of children growing up in political households want to follow in the footsteps of their parent's role. That is not confined to politics; it's a perfectly natural phenomenon.

touts · 05-10-2017 04:06PM

tritium wrote: »

Id even put Bruton ahead of him somewhat controversially on the basis that he laid many foundations for what came after him in Irish life.

The only foundation he laid was the future oligarch career of Redacted O'Redacted?

In contrast while Cosgrave was a conservative man of his time and we judge him harshly through modern eyes his government seems to have done what they thought was right for the country as a whole. We might disagree with them but I do think Cosgrave was doing what he thought was best for the nation. I don't think too many Taoiseach since then can honestly say that.

05-10-2017 04:07PM

touts wrote: »

The only foundation he laid was the future oligarch career of Redacted O'Redacted?

In contrast while Cosgrave was a conservative man of his time and we judge him harshly through modern eyes

Cosgrave was a very conservative man in his own time, let alone in ours.

He was one of the most pious members of the Oireachtas, let alone the Government.

davycc · 05-10-2017 04:07PM

blanch152 wrote: »

I think you need to take something for that hatred.

The man stood up to the IRA terrorists in the 1970s when they were a real threat to the State, well done I say and RIP.

I won't take lectures on a hypocrite like your fair self, don't want to have to put a hero like yourself back onto my ignore list.

Cosgrave would go up in my estimation If he had given justice to the Dublin and monaghan bombings survivors instead of sweeping the collusion under his big rug,

veryangryman · 05-10-2017 04:09PM

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Does it annoy you that Garret FitzGerald ran for office, too? Winston Churchill? Tony Benn? Justin Trudeau? Benazir Bhutto?

And why not apply the same standard to siblings and spouses too? Robert F. Kennedy? Ted Kennedy? Hillary Clinton?

The fact is, that just like shopkeepers, drapers, doctors, and farmers, a lot of children growing up in political households want to follow in the footsteps of their parent's role. That is not confined to politics; it's a perfectly natural phenomenon.

I didn't specifically criticise Liam. I said the system is whats wrong. Worldwide.

Other professions are not as responsible positions so no, they don't bother me. Politicians make huge decisions that affect us all. They should need to get off the ground on their own merits to relate to the man on the street IMO.

davycc · 05-10-2017 04:17PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

i think this tells you more about the electorate than it does about the system or the politician, and **** all has changed since.

Idiots votes count just as much sadly,
In my last constituency Helen mcentee got in on the sympathy and nepotism gig.

And in Kerry the Healy Rae dynasty is currently sucking up all the lucrative public purse contracts as a result of their own bit of nepotism and cronyism.

Fg and ff are two identical pigs getting the trough stuffed

WHIP IT! · 05-10-2017 05:13PM

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

... while actually exercising her right to have loving sexual intercourse with (presumebly) her husband? Yes, plelase - do go on.

Both my Nans would have been older than the poster's Nan... they had 5 and 6 kids respectively... I guess they and their husbands were not quite so in love as the Granny who was forced to have 15 by the Taoiseach...

blanch152 · 05-10-2017 05:42PM

davycc wrote: »

a hero like yourself

I'll take a compliment wherever I can get it, thank you.

fryup · 05-10-2017 06:03PM

davycc wrote: »

Cosgrave would go up in my estimation If he had given justice to the Dublin and monaghan bombings survivors instead of sweeping the collusion under his big rug,

well how do you think people in the north feel....bloody friday, kingsmill, enniskillen, teebane, darkley massacres all swept under the rug...with some of the perpetrators walking the streets some of them in public office (SF)

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 05-10-2017 06:30PM

WHIP IT! wrote: »

Both my Nans would have been older than the poster's Nan... they had 5 and 6 kids respectively... I guess they and their husbands were not quite so in love as the Granny who was forced to have 15 by the Taoiseach...

Sorry, you were supposed to be telling me how to legally make love without fear of concieving a child in a State where the recently deceased refuse to allow to you to use contraception because he proclaimed to be holier than thou....?

Honestly sounds like we'd have been better off without him.

Liam Cosgrave RIP(Mod warning in op and #174)

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