Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
If we do not hit our goal we will be forced to close the site.

Current status: https://keepboardsalive.com/

Annual subs are best for most impact. If you are still undecided on going Ad Free - you can also donate using the Paypal Donate option. All contribution helps. Thank you.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Hotel Cancels Pro life event due to Intimidation.

1…2930323435…42

Comments

  • #932
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    They are intervening to stifle open democratic debate & to stop other people making their case, in Dublin + Cork -activists involved with far left groups are behind this, its odd if they re so confident of the 8th amendment being repealed that they seek to silence rape victims from speaking in a public venue .

    What open democratic debate would this be now?

    As far as I can make out, the event was paid to enter, was hosted by one suspect group, and only had speakers supporting their own views.


  • #933
    Lux23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,134 ✭✭✭Lux23


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    If you re so confident in your own arguments that people are on your side, why are so afraid of the opposing side being openly heard out ?

    I don't have a problem with them presenting factual arguments, but spreading lies like abortion causes breast cancer and that a foetus feels pain very early on in its development is simply wrong and shouldn't be allowed to happen.


  • #934
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    If you re so confident in your own arguments that people are on your side, why are so afraid of the opposing side being openly heard out ?

    Why are you opposed to the user utilising their free speech? Cause that's exactly what you're doing... You're all about free speech in one instance and telling people to shut up next...


  • #935
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Trinity People Before Profit posted a photo of two of members with FB status that they taking down posters.
    429177.jpg

    that was posted up a long time ago and already discussed.
    Both Mattie Mcgrath + Peader Toibin called out this thuggish behaviour of tearing down posters unlike some.


  • #936
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i'm still trying to work out how they can afford to book these fancy hotels. the spencer and the gibson are not cheap.

    Meeting room hire isn't expensive, and they were charging €20 on the door. 10/15 people would have your room hire covered, with maybe another 5 to cover teas and coffees.


  • Advertisement
  • #937
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Both Mattie Mcgrath + Peader Toibin called out this thuggish behaviour of tearing down posters unlike some.

    good for them


  • #938
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,129 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    Meeting room hire isn't expensive, and they were charging €20 on the door. 10/15 people would have your room hire covered, with maybe another 5 to cover teas and coffees.


    i didnt realise they were actually charging admission. so much for stifling debate.


  • #939
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Billy86 wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    They are intervening to stifle open democratic debate & to stop other people making their case, in Dublin + Cork -activists involved with far left groups are behind this, its odd if they re so confident of the 8th amendment being repealed that they seek to silence rape victims from speaking in a public venue .
    Question for you.

    I have already said I don't mind either way really if the talks went ahead or not... but let's say I didn't want them to. If it was my opinion that I didn't think these beliefs should go ahead. Do I not have the right to -peacefully, of course- express that opinion?
    Yes you have the right to express that opinion, but such an opinion proves you don,t believe in free speech as you seek to silence people with views different to yours .


  • #940
    Billy86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,495 ✭✭✭✭Billy86


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    i'm still trying to work out how they can afford to book these fancy hotels. the spencer and the gibson are not cheap.
    Manage follow the money and you'll likely wind up somewhere in the USA; lots of money in the pro life movement there.


  • #941
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Lux23 wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    If you re so confident in your own arguments that people are on your side, why are so afraid of the opposing side being openly heard out ?

    I don't have a problem with them presenting factual arguments, but spreading lies like abortion causes breast cancer and that a foetus feels pain very early on in its development is simply wrong and shouldn't be allowed to happen.
    The two meetings that got canceled this week had nothing to do with arguments about abortion causing breast cancer or any such claims, , it was about rape victims + people conceived in rape telling their stories.

    https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912751399984824322

    https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912751205255929867


  • Advertisement
  • #942
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Yes you have the right to express that opinion, but such an opinion proves you don,t believe in free speech as you seek to silence people with views different to yours .

    He's expressing his opinion, but has no authority to actually shut it down.

    Still waiting to find out what democratic debate you are talking about.


  • #943
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    seamus wrote: »
    My hole.

    Free speech as a principle is that someone should be free to express their opinion without fear of the state taking action against them.

    The principle does not require individuals to tolerate the speech of others, it does not require anyone to listen, and it does not require anyone to stand by and let them speak.

    Platform denial is a form of free speech in itself; a quiet protest in opposition.

    It only becomes a violation of free speech when that platform is denied permanently.

    Like I say, there are plenty of places this group can host their "meetings" without fear that they'll be cancelled. There is no violation of free speech taking place.

    i'm still trying to work out how they can afford to book these fancy hotels. the spencer and the gibson are not cheap.

    Maybe George Soros gave them €250,000 in the interests of balancing the debate. :-)

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #944
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    That €20 charge was the entry for the thing in the Aisling Hotel.

    Unknown if there was to be a charge for this Unbroken event.

    Lads, I've been wrong twice on this thread. I'm out.


  • #945
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    seamus wrote: »
    hatrickpatrick wrote: »
    Opposing people being given a platform may fall under free speech, but it's in total opposition to the spirit of it.
    My hole. That's just weasel words.

    Free speech as a principle is that someone should be free to express their opinion without fear of the state taking action against them.

    The principle does not require individuals to tolerate the speech of others, it does not require anyone to listen, and it does not require anyone to stand by and let them speak.

    Platform denial is a form of free speech in itself; a quiet protest in opposition.

    It only becomes a violation of free speech when that platform is denied permanently and/or is denied by the state.

    Like I say, there are plenty of places this group can host their "meetings" without fear that they'll be cancelled. There is no violation of free speech taking place.
    "" The principle does not require individuals to tolerate the speech of others, it does not require anyone to listen, and it does not require anyone to stand by and let them speak. ""

    Newsflash for you the meetings were booked inside a hotel venue, no one is being asked or required to go to either of the meetings, if some people don,t want to listen- fine ok just don,t attend the meeting, problem solved- have some consideration about people on the fence who might of wanted to go hear out one side.


  • #946
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    The two meetings that got canceled this week had nothing to do with arguments about abortion causing breast cancer or any such claims, , it was about rape victims + people conceived in rape telling their stories.

    https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912751399984824322

    https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912751205255929867

    These women and their mother (for the one who is the child who was conceived through rape) had THE CHOICE on whether they wanted to carry on with their pregnancy or not. They choose to carry on with their pregnancies, and that's great that they had the choice to do that. What's happening here is this group 'Unbroken Ireland' are shipping in guest speakers from America to speak about the fact they choose to carry to term, women in Ireland are forced to carry to term if they don't want to continue with the pregnancy. They have no choice if they want a termination if they have been raped, unless they can afford to travel that is.


  • #947
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    "" The principle does not require individuals to tolerate the speech of others, it does not require anyone to listen, and it does not require anyone to stand by and let them speak. ""
    Newsflash for you the meetings were booked inside a hotel venue, no one is being asked or required to go to either of the meetings, if some people don,t want to listen- fine ok just don,t attend the meeting, problem solved- have some consideration about people on the fence who might of wanted to go hear out one side.

    Read the last bit of your own quote.

    Does not require anyone to stand by and let them speak.


  • #948
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    "" The principle does not require individuals to tolerate the speech of others, it does not require anyone to listen, and it does not require anyone to stand by and let them speak. ""
    Newsflash for you the meetings were booked inside a hotel venue, no one is being asked or required to go to either of the meetings, if some people don,t want to listen- fine ok just don,t attend the meeting, problem solved- have some consideration about people on the fence who might of wanted to go hear out one side.

    Read the last bit of your own quote.

    Does not require anyone to stand by and let them speak.
    Im quoting the other poster Seamus.


  • #949
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Yes you have the right to express that opinion, but such an opinion proves you don,t believe in free speech as you seek to silence people with views different to yours .

    He's expressing his opinion, but has no authority to actually shut it down.  

    Still waiting to find out what democratic debate you are talking about.
    A referendum on the 8th amendment is due next summer, during referendums democratic debate takes place where both sides present their case to the public.


  • #950
    seamus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,173 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    have some consideration about people on the fence who might of wanted to go hear out one side.
    They can pay $15 for the DVD, it's cheaper than the €20 to go to the Gibson.

    Anyway, that's a different argument now. Instead of violating free speech, apparently it's blocking "research" or something?

    Have some consideration for the Hotel's wish to protect its income. Should people just silently boycott the hotel, or should they let the hotel know they plan on boycotting it?

    Oh, what a tangled web it becomes when you realise that the same argument can be applied on both sides of the fence.


  • #951
    pilly
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 9,005 ✭✭✭pilly


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Both Mattie Mcgrath + Peader Toibin called out this thuggish behaviour of tearing down posters unlike some.

    You've already told us this?


  • Advertisement
  • #952
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Sofiztikated wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    They are intervening to stifle open democratic debate & to stop other people making their case, in Dublin + Cork -activists involved with far left groups are behind this, its odd if they re so confident of the 8th amendment being repealed that they seek to silence rape victims from speaking in a public venue .

    What open democratic debate would this be now?

    As far as I can make out, the event was paid to enter, was hosted by one suspect group, and only had speakers supporting their own views.

    A "suspect" group with suspect views! Wow what is this? 1950's Mc Carthy era America?
    The group only had speakers supporting their own views. Well duh! How many pro life speakers are invited to speak at pro choice events?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #953
    pitifulgod
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,282 ✭✭✭pitifulgod


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Im quoting the other poster Seamus.

    You actively oppose people engaging in free speech and outlining their view to the hotel. How can you entirely ignore this massive hole in your logic?


  • #954
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,725 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    January wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    The two meetings that got canceled this week had nothing to do with arguments about abortion causing breast cancer or any such claims, , it was about rape victims + people conceived in rape telling their stories.

    https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912751399984824322

    https://twitter.com/UnbrokenLBR/status/912751205255929867

    These women and their mother (for the one who is the child who was conceived through rape) had THE CHOICE on whether they wanted to carry on with their pregnancy or not. They choose to carry on with their pregnancies, and that's great that they had the choice to do that. What's happening here is this group 'Unbroken Ireland' are shipping in guest speakers from America to speak about the fact they choose to carry to term, women in Ireland are forced to carry to term if they don't want to continue with the pregnancy. They have no choice if they want a termination if they have been raped, unless they can afford to travel that is.

    You could argue that they are outlining the consequences of their choice so it better informs the opinion of those who can afford to travel, which are thousands of women annually. Maybe you feel women can make better choices with less information? Did you vote against information and travel in the last election?

    If not why the hostility to information this time round?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #955
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    seamus wrote: »
    My hole. That's just weasel words.

    These two sentences are very unfortunately paired I must say :D
    Free speech as a principle is that someone should be free to express their opinion without fear of the state taking action against them.

    I disagree. Free speech should mean that people are free to express their opinion without fear of anyone taking action against them.
    The principle does not require individuals to tolerate the speech of others

    I fundamentally disagree.
    it does not require anyone to listen

    100% agreed here, obviously. No question. One's right to stand on a street corner prophesising the apocalypse is equally everyone else's right to walk on by, or call you an utter tosspot.
    and it does not require anyone to stand by and let them speak.

    Again, this I disagree with. All speech should be "protected" speech - that is, subject to the same discrimination laws as race, gender, etc.
    Platform denial is a form of free speech in itself; a quiet protest in opposition.

    Again, I simply don't agree. Platform denial is more than speech, it is an action.
    It only becomes a violation of free speech when that platform is denied permanently and/or is denied by the state.

    Again, I simply don't agree. In a world in which the vast majority of platforms are controlled by private actors, limiting free speech to the state is totally meaningless.
    Like I say, there are plenty of places this group can host their "meetings" without fear that they'll be cancelled. There is no violation of free speech taking place.

    Such as? They've already tried several.


  • #956
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    You actively oppose people engaging in free speech and outlining their view to the hotel. How can you entirely ignore this massive hole in your logic?

    Not who you were responding to but I'll just jump in here for a second - I don't oppose their right to do it, I just think it makes them authoritarian scumbags. And I have no respect for self-styled "liberals" who take authoritarian stances against their opposition.


  • #957
    Sofiztikated
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,995 ✭✭✭Sofiztikated


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    A "suspect" group with suspect views! Wow what is this? 1950's Mc Carthy era America?
    The group only had speakers supporting their own views. Well duh! How many pro life speakers are invited to speak at pro choice events?

    Already stated I was incorrect, and was referring to the thing that the thread was originally about, that thing in the Aishling Hotel.

    Anyway, my point was that it's not a debate.


  • #958
    January
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,862 ✭✭✭✭January


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    You could argue that they are outlining the consequences of their choice so it better informs the opinion of those who can afford to travel, which are thousands of women annually. Maybe you feel women can make better choices with less information? Did you vote against information and travel in the last election?

    If not why the hostility to information this time round?

    I wasn't old enough to vote last time around... I don't have a hostility to information, I have hostility to anti-choice groups flying in people from America when the experience in America is nothing compared to the experience in Ireland. They don't want people to travel for abortions, they don't want anyone to have an abortion, no matter the circumstance.


  • #959
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    pitifulgod wrote: »
    You actively oppose people engaging in free speech and outlining their view to the hotel. How can you entirely ignore this massive hole in your logic?
    Already replied to another poster ; people have right to speak to contact the hotel; but it just proved they don't believe in free speech when they seek to silence others they disagree with.


  • #960
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    January wrote: »
    I have hostility to anti-choice groups flying in people from America when the experience in America is nothing compared to the experience in Ireland.

    This makes no sense - the experience in America is different to Ireland specifically because Ireland bans it and America doesn't. If the Repeal campaign gets its way (which again I must stress that I'm in favour of!) then the experience in Ireland will become identical to that of America. So it's very relevant to hear views from those in countries which the campaigners would like Ireland to model itself on.


  • Advertisement
  • #961
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Already replied to another poster ; people have right to speak to contact the hotel; but it just proved they don't believe in free speech when they seek to silence others they disagree with.

    This. If one believes in the spirit of free speech, then one would never call for a company to ever remove a platform from anyone, regardless of the content.

    By the way, I'll bet that there will be some on the pro-life side who will engage in similar tactics again pro-choice meetings, and I will state here and now for the record that I will similarly oppose this absolutely vehemently.


Advertisement