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Hotel Cancels Pro life event due to Intimidation.

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Comments

  • #752
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    If the anti-life crowd threatened them with negative publicity if they hosted the pro-life group, would you think that was wrong?

    That does happen, it just doesn't make the papers. People have the right to object to a meeting, the venue has the right to cancel that meeting. Its a pain when it happens but its part of living in a democracy.


  • #753
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Only if it was lies?


    Either way,if this was the case...you could understand hotel running a mile from em

    What lies?

    If what was the case?


  • #754
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    What lies?

    If what was the case?

    I
    Have
    Confused


  • #755
    Army_of_One
    Closed Accounts Posts: 258 ✭✭Army_of_One


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Its AH. Cant have a thread without someone posting Anti-Catholic rubbish.

    In fairness I'm pointing out the rubbish Catholics believe and it's this believe that enables them to claim people are at a greater risk of getting breast cancer as a result of having an abortion.


  • #756
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    So you think its ok to stifle democratic debate from taking place in the run up to the referendum ?

    You don't like free speech when it's not on par with your bias.
    Unlike some people when there,s a public meeting by a group I don,t like - I don,t go trying to pressure to venue to cancel their meeting nor do I go around taking down their posters, since you failed to answer a basic question I asked, should I conclude that you re ok with stifling democratic debate ?


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  • #757
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Army_of_One wrote: »
    In fairness I'm pointing out the rubbish Catholics believe and it's this believe that enables them to claim people are at a greater risk of getting breast cancer as a result of having an abortion.

    explaint he connection please. This should be interesting....


  • #758
    pjohnson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,591 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Army_of_One wrote: »
    In fairness I'm pointing out the rubbish Catholics believe and it's this believe that enables them to claim people are at a greater risk of getting breast cancer as a result of having an abortion.

    This is more mind numbing stupidity and an abject misunderstanding of anything to do with actual science. That doesn't make someone Catholic by default.


  • #759
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,180 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    Army_of_One wrote: »
    In fairness I'm pointing out the rubbish Catholics believe and it's this believe that enables them to claim people are at a greater risk of getting breast cancer as a result of having an abortion.


    They aren't in any way at all related mate, but keep pushing that narrative if it offers you even the slightest bit of comfort, because you're sure as hell going to need it.


  • #760
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Unlike some people when there,s a public meeting by a group I don,t like - I don,t go trying to pressure to venue to cancel their meeting nor do I go around taking down their posters, since you failed to answer a basic question I asked, should I conclude that you re ok with stifling democratic debate ?

    But I did answer it. It's not. If you have a problem with people expressing themselves. Which is there right. You don't believe in free speech or democracy.


  • #761
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Unlike some people when there,s a public meeting by a group I don,t like - I don,t go trying to pressure to venue to cancel their meeting nor do I go around taking down their posters, since you failed to answer a basic question I asked, should I conclude that you re ok with stifling democratic debate ?

    But I did answer it. It's not. If you have a problem with people expressing themselves. Which is there right. You don't believe in free speech or democracy.
    Don,t I ?

    "" the way I look at it is this group ( Unbroken ) let them speak publicly if they book venues, + let other groups speak publicly such as ( Tmfr Ireland ) let all sides be heard & let people make up their own minds. ""

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104792098&postcount=615

    So let me get this straight, if someone is opposed to stifling open democratic debate from taking place they re somehow opposed to free speech & democracy ?


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  • #762
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,648 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Hmm....maybe they don't want to associated with complete bullsht science and the type it attracts?


    As is there right as a business,to refuse business/serve anyone?

    If I had a hotel,I wouldn't want them trasping about scaring off normal customers like??

    But if that was the hotel's position would they have accepted the booking in the first. I don't buy the idea that they didn't know, in general terms, what the pro-life group was about until the protesters informed them.

    The protesters may have a right to lobby the hotel to cancel the meeting, but is this the right way to pursue the pro-choice cause? Is 'no-platforming' ever the way to go for those who see themselves as liberals?


  • #763
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Don,t I ?

    "" the way I look at it is this group ( Unbroken ) let them speak publicly if they book venues, + let other groups speak publicly such as ( Tmfr Ireland ) let all sides be heard & let people make up their own minds. ""

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104792098&postcount=615

    So let me get this straight, if someone is opposed to stifling open democratic debate from taking place they re somehow opposed to free speech & democracy ?

    Your the person consistently talking about free speech. Yet you don't have a grasp of the concept.

    Your bias is so transparent


  • #764
    barneystinson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,686 ✭✭✭barneystinson


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    Your the person consistently talking about free speech. Yet you don't have a grasp of the concept.

    Your bias is so transparent

    Lol at this. I'm pro choice, and I believe in free speech, but these asshats trying to shut down debate are clearly wrong.

    Do they have a right to free speech? Yes.
    Is use of your own free speech to attempt to deny others their voice a flagrant abuse of that right? Yes, obviously IMHO.

    The right to free speech includes, should you choose to do so, the right to deliberately lie and talk shyte. Does that mean you're not a d1ck if you do?


  • #765
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Don,t I ?

    "" the way I look at it is this group ( Unbroken ) let them speak publicly if they book venues, + let other groups speak publicly such as ( Tmfr Ireland ) let all sides be heard & let people make up their own minds. ""

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104792098&postcount=615

    So let me get this straight, if someone is opposed to stifling open democratic debate from taking place they re somehow opposed to free speech & democracy ?

    Your the person consistently talking about free speech. Yet you don't have a grasp of the concept.

    Your bias is so transparent
    " Bias " ?  Some bias on my behalf alright.

    "" [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]let all sides be heard & let people make up their own minds. ""[/font]

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104792098&postcount=615


  • #766
    WinnyThePoo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,417 ✭✭✭WinnyThePoo


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    " Bias " ?  Some bias on my behalf alright.

    "" [font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]let all sides be heard & let people make up their own minds. ""[/font]

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104792098&postcount=615

    Nope. It's clear as day.


  • #767
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »

    The protesters may have a right to lobby the hotel to cancel the meeting, but is this the right way to pursue the pro-choice cause? Is 'no-platforming' ever the way to go for those who see themselves as liberals?

    I doubt it tbh

    But I just find it amusing tbh,lads jumping up and down saying free speech etc etc....until they realise the same free speech applies to lads protesting



    Either way,the way this debate is going....if I was a hotel owner I wouldn't host any of the 2 sides...

    protests and counter protests are horrific for business as I for 1,most likely wouldn't pass a protest/picket anywhere


  • #768
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Loafing Oaf wrote: »

    The protesters may have a right to lobby the hotel to cancel the meeting, but is this the right way to pursue the pro-choice cause? Is 'no-platforming' ever the way to go for those who see themselves as liberals?

    I doubt it tbh

    But I just find it amusing tbh,lads jumping up and down saying free speech etc etc....until they realise the same free speech applies to lads protesting



    Either way,the way this debate is going....if I was a hotel owner I wouldn't host any of the 2 sides...

    protests and counter protests are horrific for business as I for 1,most likely wouldn't pass a protest/picket anywhere
    Im not opposed to peaceful protest.
    "" If they choose to protest outside the venue to express their disagreement with the group, fine ok Im not opposed to them doing so, in the past there has been protests outside political party conferences to express disagreement, they could choose to do likewise, what I completely oppose is attempts to stifle democratic debate on an upcoming referendum issue which is what certain groups are trying to do . "" 
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104806515&postcount=732


  • #769
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    Loafing Oaf wrote: »

    The protesters may have a right to lobby the hotel to cancel the meeting, but is this the right way to pursue the pro-choice cause? Is 'no-platforming' ever the way to go for those who see themselves as liberals?

    I doubt it tbh

    But I just find it amusing tbh,lads jumping up and down saying free speech etc etc....until they realise the same free speech applies to lads protesting



    Either way,the way this debate is going....if I was a hotel owner I wouldn't host any of the 2 sides...

    protests and counter protests are horrific for business as I for 1,most likely wouldn't pass a protest/picket anywhere
    Im not opposed to peaceful protest.

    "" If they choose to protest outside the venue to express their disagreement with the group, fine ok Im not opposed to them doing so, in the past there has been protests outside political party conferences to express disagreement, they could choose to do likewise, what I completely oppose is attempts to stifle democratic debate on an upcoming referendum issue which is what certain groups are trying to do . "" 

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104806515&postcount=732


  • #770
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Im not opposed to peaceful protest.

    "" If they choose to protest outside the venue to express their disagreement with the group, fine ok Im not opposed to them doing so, in the past there has been protests outside political party conferences to express disagreement, they could choose to do likewise, what I completely oppose is attempts to stifle democratic debate on an upcoming referendum issue which is what certain groups are trying to do . "" 

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104806515&postcount=732

    But your opposed to them informing the hotel of there dislike of it?

    Preferring instead risking an ugly mess of a protest to develop,damaging the hotels reputation and potentially putting people's jobs at risk??


    Seems legit reasoning :pac:

    Either way it's the hotels decision to make at the end of the day?


  • #771
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,726 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Billy86 wrote: »
    Right here in the post I already cited - you have yet to show where gail apparently claimed "there is nothing wrong with removing posters for meetings that you disagree with?"

    There, you're at it again and just proving my point exactly. I said they are transparent depsite your best efforts, including this one.

    It is literally what unquestioned free speech for all is, actually. I'm not pushed on if these guys have their talk or not, and I say that as someone who does not believe in unquestioned free speech for all - because that concept is, as I have pointed out, a logical fallacy.


    Despite the fact as I said I don't mind these people getting to speak, what campaign am I in again?

    Forgive me if I am unfamiliar with each posters "christian" name if I can use the un pc term, as well as their username.

    You failed to address the question of how people have the right to assemble if material informing people of the assembly is removed. This is the point I was addressing and you are avoiding but I expect you know that.

    You say you do not believe in "unquestioned" free speech but you do not describe what you believe "unquestioned" free speech to be.

    In a civilised society issues of difference are resolved through talking debate, discussion. Not through a competition of who can shout the loudest. That will inevitably end in confrontation, conflict and violence.

    You say you "don't mind these people getting to speak", how gracious, yet spend much time and effort defending those who would ensure they don't get to speak.

    I assumed you were part of the:

    FREE SAFE LEGAL

    MY BODY MY CHOICE JUST NOT MY MONEY

    Campaign. Apologies if I jumped to conclusions.

    The campaign that demands that, people who feel as passionately about protecting the unborn as the pro choice do about the right to choose. Not only see abortion on demand introduced but expect them to pay for it as well.

    Its more entitlement culture. My body, my choice, your money.

    I don't expect anyone to pay for my pill or condoms.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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  • #772
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Im not opposed to peaceful protest.

    "" If they choose to protest outside the venue to express their disagreement with the group, fine ok Im not opposed to them doing so, in the past there has been protests outside political party conferences to express disagreement, they could choose to do likewise, what I completely oppose is attempts to stifle democratic debate on an upcoming referendum issue which is what certain groups are trying to do . "" 

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104806515&postcount=732

    But your opposed to them informing the hotel of there dislike of it?

    Preferring instead risking an ugly mess of a protest to develop,damaging the hotels reputation and potentially putting people's jobs at risk??


    Seems legit reasoning :pac:

    Either way it's the hotels decision to make at the end of the day?
    Im 100% opposed to self appointed brigade trying to silence other voices in an upcoming referendum, if a referendum debate there are different sides to the argument, if its to be democratic & all that then all sides must be able to speak, & people who are on the fence about the issue must have the right to attend a talk or attend a public meeting if he/she wants to be more informed by hearing someone out .


  • #773
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Its AH. Cant have a thread without someone posting Anti-Catholic rubbish.

    Someone posted a link to facebook for that unbroken group. There's comments praising Jesus there. To say that catholicism has no part in this discussion is avoidance.


  • #774
    DickSwiveller
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,697 ✭✭✭DickSwiveller


    Grayson wrote: »
    Someone posted a link to facebook for that unbroken group. There's comments praising Jesus there. To say that catholicism has no part in this discussion is avoidance.

    I don't think anybody said that. Read back over the posts.


  • #775
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Im against Unelected groups like the Connolly youth movement who represent no one except themselves trying to dictate to the general public who can & who can,t speak at public venues, I oppose no platforming/silencing people & I make no apology for it, if someone is prevented from speaking in a public forum they themselves booked & paid for with their own money then yes they are being silenced.

    None of the pro life groups were elected. And no-one has been prevented talking. They simply told the hotel who they were dealing with and the hotel changed their mind.

    You seem to think that they shouldn't tell they hotel what kind of people they're hosting. Apparently you don't want that kind of information being shared. You are however ok with a group that tells lies to pregnant women fundraising so they can tell more lies.


  • #776
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,155 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    DickSwiveller wrote: »
    I don't think anybody said that. Read back over the posts.

    I have. Religion was mentioned and thee's accusations of anti catholicism.


    btw, We're 52 pages into this. There's been multiple articles about this. I haven't seen a single bit of evidence about threats. Considering all the threats that have apparently been made, there's absolutely nothing. Can anyone provide any evidence of this?


  • #777
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    Grayson wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    Im against Unelected groups like the Connolly youth movement who represent no one except themselves trying to dictate to the general public who can & who can,t speak at public venues, I oppose no platforming/silencing people & I make no apology for it, if someone is prevented from speaking in a public forum they themselves booked & paid for with their own money then yes they are being silenced.

    None of the pro life groups were elected. And no-one has been prevented talking. They simply told the hotel who they were dealing with and the hotel changed their mind.

    You seem to think that they shouldn't tell they hotel what kind of people they're hosting. Apparently you don't want that kind of information being shared. You are however ok with a group that tells lies to pregnant women fundraising so they can tell more lies.
    They book a venue with their own money to speak & present their case, because of pressure from an online mob the hotel cancels their meeting = they have being prevented from talking & people on the fence have being prevented from going to hear out one side of the debate.


  • #778
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    WinnyThePoo wrote: »
    But I did answer it. It's not. If you have a problem with people expressing themselves. Which is there right. You don't believe in free speech or democracy.

    For the bajillionth time:

    "I don't approve of this group" - speech.
    "I'm going to take action to prevent this group from speaking" - more than speech.

    Sure, you have a right to do both. But the latter is not in the spirit of free speech, and is a totally scummy thing to do.


  • #779
    hatrickpatrick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,798 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    Grayson wrote: »
    None of the pro life groups were elected. And no-one has been prevented talking. They simply told the hotel who they were dealing with and the hotel changed their mind.

    You seem to think that they shouldn't tell they hotel what kind of people they're hosting. Apparently you don't want that kind of information being shared. You are however ok with a group that tells lies to pregnant women fundraising so they can tell more lies.

    I'd take a different view, I don't think businesses should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of speech. It should be a protected class just like race, sex, etc. And I apply that to both left and right - as much to the gay cake bakery fiasco as to this hotel. Nobody should be allowed to decline business to a customer on the basis of speech, particularly political speech. And if this was enshrined in law, then boycotting and protesting the venue would become ineffective anyway since the venue would have the law to hide behind.


  • #780
    tomwaterford
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,768 ✭✭✭✭tomwaterford


    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    They book a venue with their own money to speak & present their case, because of pressure from an online mob the hotel cancels their meeting = they have being prevented from talking & people on the fence have being prevented from going to hear out one side of the debate.

    Is there any actual evidence of this large online mob??



    Morover it seems this event was also falling under government scrutiny of a promised crackdown on anti abortion events giving misleading information
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hotel-cancels-event-linking-terminations-with-cancer-gcqb3s6lx?t=ie

    https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/simon-harris-to-meet-attorney-general-over-misleading-abortion-clinic-claims-419707.html


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  • #781
    The Legend Of Kira
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 726 ✭✭✭The Legend Of Kira


    tomwaterford wrote: »
    The Legend Of Kira wrote: »
    They book a venue with their own money to speak & present their case, because of pressure from an online mob the hotel cancels their meeting = they have being prevented from talking & people on the fence have being prevented from going to hear out one side of the debate.

    Is there any actual evidence of this large online mob??



    Morover it seems this event was also falling under government scrutiny of a promised crackdown on anti abortion events giving misleading information
    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/hotel-cancels-event-linking-terminations-with-cancer-gcqb3s6lx?t=ie

    https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.irishexaminer.com/ireland/simon-harris-to-meet-attorney-general-over-misleading-abortion-clinic-claims-419707.html
    I posted a screenshot earlier of a group calling on people to pressure a hotel into canceling a meeting.


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