Ireland - Still Some Way To Go

JupiterKid · 25-09-2017 07:29PM #1

Ireland 2017 - we have an openly gay Taioseach, the same sex marriage referendum was passed by a comfortable majority and minorities have their rights enshrined in law.

But there are things that make me question our "progressiveness" - abortion still being illegal, decades after it was legalised in other Western countries, our views on sex education and prostitution, Danny Healy Rae moaning again about the drink driving laws "destroying" rural life, our very immature and unhealthy relationship about alcohol. Our continued proscription of recreational drugs.

I was reading the LGBT forum and the stories of closeted gay men in the Ireland of 2017 was depressing. There is still a lot of self-loathing and lack of acceptance of gay people. And it angers me.

We have come a long way in 25 years but it is patently clear that there is still quite a way to go. Just reading the diametrically opposed attitudes on this forum on contentious issue tells me that reasoned debate is stifled out by who can shout the loudest - the right or the left. And people are so judgemental - anyone reliant on welfare is a sponger and waster (according to many) and anyone different to themselves is seen as a threat.

And don't get me started on the housing crisis. A total scandal. People unable to access affordable housing and a govt unwilling to properly address the issue effectively.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 25-09-2017 07:31PM

Every country has a way to go. What countries do you think are there already?

tomwaterford · 25-09-2017 07:32PM

Selah Uninterested Blank wrote: »

Every country has a way to go. What countries do you think are there already?

Cork

JupiterKid · 25-09-2017 07:33PM

Selah Uninterested Blank wrote: »

Every country has a way to go. What countries do you think are there already?

I think the Scandinavian countries and Canada are pretty damn close. I also just wanted to vent.

But my point is Ireland is nowhere near as socially advanced as it might like to think it is.

McMurphy · 25-09-2017 07:34PM

Just highlights the need for a bear tax to be introduced asap.

Wesser · 25-09-2017 07:36PM

I think we are far more progressive than many countries that proport to be e.g. the US

I think travelling widely to many places is an education and you realise how good things are when you get back .

Huexotzingo · 25-09-2017 07:37PM

Professor, without knowing precisely what the danger is, would you say it's time for our viewers to crack each other's heads open and feast on the goo inside?

One eyed Jack · 25-09-2017 07:38PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ireland 2017 - we have an openly gay Taioseach, the same sex marriage referendum was passed by a comfortable majority and minorities have their rights enshrined in law.

But there are things that make me question our "progressiveness" - abortion still being illegal, decades after it was legalised in other Western countries, our views on sex education and prostitution, Danny Healy Rae moaning again about the drink driving laws "destroying" rural life, our very immature and unhealthy relationship about alcohol. Our continued proscription of recreational drugs.

I was reading the LGBT forum and the stories of closeted gay men in the Ireland of 2017 was depressing. There is still a lot of self-loathing and lack of acceptance of gay people. And it angers me.

We have come a long way in 25 years but it is patently clear that there is still quite a way to go. Just reading the diametrically opposed attitudes on this forum on contentious issue tells me that reasoned debate is stifled out by who can shout the loudest - the right or the left. And people are so judgemental - anyone reliant on welfare is a sponger and waster (according to many) a d anyone different to themselves is seen as a threat.

And don't get me started on the housing crisis. A total scandal. People unable to access affordable housing and a govt unwilling to properly address the issue effectively.

It depends upon your idea of what you think are progressive ideas for Irish society though. Some peoples ideas for Irish society which they may consider progressive, are actually regressive in other peoples opinions. Depends upon where you want Irish society to progress to really. Irish society is progressing one way or the other, it's simply a matter of which direction it takes in each area and how those areas overlap and interweave with each other.

Barry Badrinath · 25-09-2017 07:43PM

I think we have come too far too soon.

Time to roll back on gay marriage.

freshpopcorn · 25-09-2017 07:52PM

I find lots of people in Ireland don't give a crap about some things.
Take being gay. I know lots of people and they find gay people annoying(Mainly due to camp people on TV) but they don't give a crap who you sleep with at the end of the day. They might make the odd inappropriate comment but apart from that nothing really. They supported gay marriage just for the sake of it and to keep the peace. Same if there kid was gay. They wouldn't be jumping up on down but they don't care once there happy and not having sex on the kitchen table.
Regarding the 8th amendment. I am a man in my mid twenties and apart from a few articles online every so often I never hear a thing about it. If you read the articles/comments it's the same people responding from both sides. Just going by my online friends I know(who are into it) more keep who are pro-life than repeal. The majority are young females and aren't religious.(So, I have no idea how it would go.) Even here on boards they are a few pro life people and an extra few people who want it repealed.

baldbear · 25-09-2017 07:55PM

"Ireland - Still Some Way To Go" until what?

I think we are a great country compared to alot of other places.

greencap · 25-09-2017 08:01PM

Why can't we just be nice and moderate and centrist.

Someone always has to wage a campaign.

RobertKK · 25-09-2017 08:04PM

Abortion is backwards in a lot of cases and the result of not using contraception or understanding how to use it.
Most is not for rape, or abnormalities which are what are always used because the other arguments are not progressive.

Birth rates too low for replacement so we need immigrants from countries where they have a higher birth rate, thus draining these countries of their futures, but more abortion is progressive, less abortion is progressive.

Abortion is not illegal in Ireland, btw.
The idiots on the constitutional convention or whatever it was called, wanted no term limit abortions and for any reason, now that is not progressive.
It is anti-science.

wakka12 · 25-09-2017 08:13PM

Well Dublin is among the most accepting cities for gay people that Ive ever visited in my entire life. More so even than many cities known as gay destinations in europe..
So I guess we can give ourselves a pat on the back for that one at least.

I think the abortion law is simply an overhang of past laws and not really representative of current attitudes of people in the country for instance.
Overall I think Irelands an extremely welcoming and accepting country to many minorities and other groups and I think its something we dont pride ourselves enough on. Many european countries do, Britain, Sweden, Germany etc and we are just as good as them in that regard.

wakka12 · 25-09-2017 08:16PM

Nascar Fan wrote: »

What makes you think these countries are doing so well? Sweden is the rape capital of Europe. They have so many rapes no that it takes months to even question a suspect.

Thats a myth, the stats are high because many small sexual assault offences are placed under the same statistic as rape in Sweden.
Why would rape rates be so high in Sweden and nowhere else, makes no sense. They have a reliable police force, crime rates other than rape are very low in sweden also.

Your Face · 25-09-2017 08:17PM

WesternZulu · 25-09-2017 08:19PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think the Scandinavian countries and Canada are pretty damn close. I also just wanted to vent.

But my point is Ireland is nowhere near as socially advanced as it might like to think it is.

Either is other places that you mention.
For instance, Sweden has huge integration problems.

I was in Canada during the summer and had a 11 hour lay over in St John's so I went into the nearest town. Now it wasn't a big place but I have never seen as many people begging so Canada has a bit to go as well before it's the social paradise it's sometimes portrayed.

That's not to say Ireland doesn't have its problems but some perspective is needed.

wakka12 · 25-09-2017 08:20PM

JupiterKid wrote: »

I think the Scandinavian countries and Canada are pretty damn close. I also just wanted to vent.

But my point is Ireland is nowhere near as socially advanced as it might like to think it is.

Have you lived in Scandinavia or Canada? Im openly gay and my experience was relatively similar in Vancouver and Stockholm as it was in Dublin, only difference was there were bigger gay communities there but certainly Dublin pulled its weight in terms of acceptance. And those countries arent free of problems either. I noticed a disproportionately large number of homeless people of native american appearance in Canadian cities. And absoltuely massive drug problems within most canadian cities in the homeless communities, and numbers of homeless in the average canadian city that would make Dublins homeless' crisis' look like a joke.

Grass is always greener on the other side I suppose.

Ulysses Gaze · 25-09-2017 08:20PM

tomwaterford wrote: »

Cork

Snotty · 25-09-2017 08:21PM

Love these threads "we are not at xxxxxx as we like to think".
Who is this we? Is there a group of mythical people who posters on boards think represent everyone else but not themselves?
The country has come a long way but no one thinks it's a bastion for open mindedness and acceptance for all.

Grayson · 25-09-2017 08:27PM

WesternZulu wrote: »

I was in Canada during the summer and had a 11 hour lay over in St John's so I went into the nearest town. Now it wasn't a big place but I have never seen as many people begging so Canada has a bit to go as well before it's the social paradise it's sometimes portrayed.

I've been all around Europe and to developing nations. The worst poverty I've seen in a developed nation was in San Francisco a few weeks ago. One of the richest places on the planet and there were so many homeless people.

Dublin has a homeless crises but San Fran shows how bad it could be.

wakka12 · 25-09-2017 08:28PM

Snotty wrote: »

Love these threads "we are not at xxxxxx as we like to think".
Who is this we? Is there a group of mythical people who posters on boards think represent everyone else but not themselves?
The country has come a long way but no one thinks it's a bastion for open mindedness and acceptance for all.

well honestly I think it is when you read on the news about north korea or racism in the american police force or rohingya being slaughtered in Myanmar or acid attacks and bombings in britain or the collapse of any government structure in venezeula and everyone killing each other in syria because of their religion or gender or nationality or colour

25-09-2017 08:29PM

People getting offended by the littlest thing.

People worry about abortion when Irish children have to travel to the other side of the world for cancer treatment and our OAP's dying because of killer bugs in our hospital. Not to mention enough hospital beds to cope with the sick.

People worrying about equal pay for women whilst ignoring the homeless crisis.

People worrying about a sexist president whilst ignoring previous presidents bringing the world to war killing men women and children.

Yup we got a long way to go.

JupiterKid · 25-09-2017 08:35PM

Grayson wrote: »

I've been all around Europe and to developing nations. The worst poverty I've seen in a developed nation was in San Francisco a few weeks ago. One of the richest places on the planet and there were so many homeless people.

Dublin has a homeless crises but San Fran shows how bad it could be.

I lived in San Fran briefly in the 90s and loved the place but the homeless/begging situation back then was dreadful. But the city back then was relatively affordable for a young person on a modest income. Every time I go back to visit it becomes more and more expensive, more "corporatised" and less chilled out. The web companies that are located there have driven property prices to astronomical levels according to friends who live there.

Ireland is a great country in so many respects, but its far from a utopia. I suppose everywhere has its problems.

NIMAN · 25-09-2017 08:40PM

Far off fields and all............

Fr_Dougal · 25-09-2017 08:41PM

I wish twitter would increase the number of characters in a tweet.

Snotty · 25-09-2017 08:43PM

wakka12 wrote: »

well honestly I think it is when you read on the news about north korea or racism in the american police force or rohingya being slaughtered in Myanmar or acid attacks and bombings in britain or the collapse of any government structure in venezeula and everyone killing each other in syria because of their religion or gender or nationality or colour

That just means it is (MIGHT) be better than those places, which is the opposite of what the OP is talking about and what I was responding to.

25-09-2017 08:44PM

WesternZulu wrote: »

Either is other places that you mention.
For instance, Sweden has huge integration problems.

I was in Canada during the summer and had a 11 hour lay over in St John's so I went into the nearest town. Now it wasn't a big place but I have never seen as many people begging so Canada has a bit to go as well before it's the social paradise it's sometimes portrayed.

That's not to say Ireland doesn't have its problems but some perspective is needed.

wakka12 wrote: »

Have you lived in Scandinavia or Canada? Im openly gay and my experience was relatively similar in Vancouver and Stockholm as it was in Dublin, only difference was there were bigger gay communities there but certainly Dublin pulled its weight in terms of acceptance. And those countries arent free of problems either. I noticed a disproportionately large number of homeless people of native american appearance in Canadian cities. And absoltuely massive drug problems within most canadian cities in the homeless communities, and numbers of homeless in the average canadian city that would make Dublins homeless' crisis' look like a joke.

Grass is always greener on the other side I suppose.

Canada (BC at least) for homelessness and drugs is unreal for homelessness and drugs compared to Ireland despite their apparently excellent social safety nets.

As for the OP, I really don't see why a bunch of people being neurotic about something means there's a societal issue. I feel a lot of things. Doesn't mean there's a societal issue behind all of them.

Ireland - Still Some Way To Go

Comments