Time to ditch the Irish language and change the National Anthem?

Dravokivich · 25-09-2017 10:00AM

o1s1n wrote: »

Tell that to students studying Shakespeare in school.

I'd be of the opinion that people applying for citizenship should be able to speak some level of Irish, would love to see it made part of the naturalisation process.

The main concern with language should be the ability to communicate. Why look to get this as a part of naturalisation, if they won't be able to communicate with anyone from here?

25-09-2017 10:02AM

Dravokivich wrote: »

The main concern with language should be the ability to communicate. Why look to get this as a part of naturalisation, if they won't be able to communicate with anyone from here?

It would also be pointless when we have open borders amongst the EU, European citizens can live in any European country without having to learn the native language.

The only difference is that Europe all speaks English as a second language.

25-09-2017 10:10AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Who wants to keep the language alive?

Its only politicians and Irish speaking communities who are pushing it, as it is every person born in Ireland is taught, Irish. Its quite clear the majority do not wish to continue with Irish after leaving school, thus the majority of the country does not want Irish.

17.3% of those resident during the last census were born abroad.

That’s not ‘almost a quarter’. Gross exaggeration.

Of that 17.3%, most are not Irish citizens, so I doubt they give two fecks about the Irish language one way or the other.

As for you, I’m guessing you can’t read/write/speak Irish and simply don’t see the point of it. Fair enough.

But speak for yourself. ‘It’s quite clear....majority don’t want....blah blah’ is just old hat at this stage. Tens of thousands speak Irish on a daily basis. Good enough for me.

Nettle Soup · 25-09-2017 10:10AM

osarusan wrote: »

If we want to keep the Irish language alive, we need to teach it in school. We also need to teach it much much better.

And we know how to do this - we already do it with the other languages taught, like French and German, albeit that teaching starts later. The teaching of Irish has improved in recent years too in fairness.

However, the fact that Irish has no real presence and consequently no value in the world that a primary school age kid inhabits will always mean that acquisition is limited.

Gaelscoils were setup to improve the teaching of Irish but many parents, with no interest in Irish, took advantage of them to keep their kids away from immigrants.

darkdubh · 25-09-2017 10:10AM

Jawgap wrote: »

I always liked O'Riada's Míse Eire - much more evocative!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6tb4Lps1ag

Good call, that would be my choice too.

Nettle Soup · 25-09-2017 10:11AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Who wants to keep the language alive?

Its only politicians and Irish speaking communities who are pushing it, as it is every person born in Ireland is taught, Irish. Its quite clear the majority do not wish to continue with Irish after leaving school, thus the majority of the country does not want Irish.

Translators also make great money translating leaflets and legals that nobody will read.
Huge waste of money that would be better spent on Irish sports.

whisky_galore · 25-09-2017 10:12AM

Nettle Soup wrote: »

The Irish language is becoming an exceptional waste of money and effort.
I don't know why our politicians pander to the Irish language Nazis (and I am from Galway).
A few years ago they ripped down perfectly good green signs with "Barna" written on them in other to replace them with white signs showing "Bearna" instead. Stupidity of the highest order.

I don't care about changing the national anthem to be honest.

I don't see the point of stripping Gaeltachts (and some so-called Gaeltachts) perfectly good bilingual road signs and replacing with Irish-only ones...see Dingle debacle of a few years ago.

Marking fuel filler locations on some Bus Eireann buses in Irish is another example of worthless use of the language.

The anthem can stay as it is. It beats that Ireland's Call crap any day of the week.

25-09-2017 10:15AM

JayZeus wrote: »

17.3% of those resident during the last census were born abroad.

That’s not ‘almost a quarter’. Gross exaggeration.

Of that 17.3%, most are not Irish citizens, so I doubt they give two fecks about the Irish language one way or the other.

As for you, I’m guessing you can’t read/write/speak Irish and simply don’t see the point of it. Fair enough.

But speak for yourself. ‘It’s quite clear....majority don’t want....blah blah’ is just old hat at this stage. Tens of thousands speak Irish on a daily basis. Good enough for me.

17.3 is a very significant number.

They are all Irish residents.

This is just the number born outside of Ireland, you then have the number of citizens born in Ireland to foreign-born parents who have no attachment to the language or culture.

One in four children in Ireland are born to a non-Irish mother
http://www.thejournal.ie/poverty-children-ireland-immigrant-non-irish-1599272-Aug2014/

So we can easily get close to a quarter of the population.

This then moves onto the population in general, the majority of Ireland has no use for the Irish language and most cannot sing or understand what our national anthem is even about.

gramar · 25-09-2017 10:18AM

Deleted User wrote: »

How so?

We have a population that has nearly a quarter of it not being able to understand our national anthem, how does this unite us as Irish people?

They should fcuking learn what it means then.

Nettle Soup · 25-09-2017 10:20AM

gramar wrote: »

They should fcuking learn what it means then.

25-09-2017 10:20AM

gramar wrote: »

They should fcuking learn what it means then.

Why? The majority of those born in Ireland don't know what it means, why force the new Irish to learn something the old Irish abandoned themselves?

Would it not be better to just sing the thing in English?

bear1 · 25-09-2017 10:23AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

In fairness to Germany, they already have a population that speaks German as their first and only language.

Also, the 1 million immigrants in Germany is about 1% of their population, Ireland has a quarter of its population not even born here, how many others don't speak Irish who were born here?

It will be far easier for Germany to teach 1 million Refugees, German, than it will be for Ireland to teach a quarter of its population Irish when the majority of its population don't speak Irish, to begin with.

You love this 1 million craic.
Can you back up those claims of the 1 million for both Ireland and Germany?
Also.. last time I checked Germany didn't have 100 million citizens..

gramar · 25-09-2017 10:24AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? The majority of those born in Ireland don't know what it means, why force the new Irish to learn something the old Irish abandoned themselves?

Would it not be better to just sing the thing in English?

Sure why bother your bollocks singing it at all? Save offending or excluding anyone. Throw in times for GAA games could be 3.25 instead of 3.30.

bear1 · 25-09-2017 10:24AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

17.3 is a very significant number.

They are all Irish residents.

This is just the number born outside of Ireland, you then have the number of citizens born in Ireland to foreign-born parents who have no attachment to the language or culture.

One in four children in Ireland are born to a non-Irish mother
http://www.thejournal.ie/poverty-children-ireland-immigrant-non-irish-1599272-Aug2014/

So we can easily get close to a quarter of the population.

This then moves onto the population in general, the majority of Ireland has no use for the Irish language and most cannot sing or understand what our national anthem is even about.

You should apply for a job with the Independent.
It's great how you seem to be talking for everyone.

25-09-2017 10:27AM

bear1 wrote: »

You love this 1 million craic.
Can you back up those claims of the 1 million for both Ireland and Germany?
Also.. last time I checked Germany didn't have 100 million citizens..

The Census recorded 535,475 non-Irish nationals living in the country, a 1.6% decrease on the previous census figure in 2011 of 544,357.

http://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/rel..._Diversity.pdf

Number of dual Irish citizens living here up by almost 90% over five years

OVER THE PAST five years, the number of people in living Ireland holding dual-citizenship (Irish and another country) has increased by 87.4% to 104,784 persons.
http://www.thejournal.ie/census-citizenship-3609382-Sep2017/

Germany 'spent more than €20bn on refugees in 2016' as crisis outstrips state budgets

The four states recorded have taken around a third of asylum seekers currently living in Germany, where more than a million have arrived since the start of the refugee crisis in 2015.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/germany-refugees-spend-20-billion-euros-2016-angela-merkel-crisis-budgets-middle-east-north-africa-a7623466.html

German Population

82.67 million

https://www.google.ie/publicdata/explore?ds=d5bncppjof8f9_&met_y=sp_pop_totl&idim=country:DEU:FRA:GBR&hl=en&dl=en

bear1 · 25-09-2017 10:29AM

I think you need to take a look at your figures again.
And do you know the difference between 1% of 100 million and 1% of 82 million?

25-09-2017 10:30AM

bear1 wrote: »

You should apply for a job with the Independent.
It's great how you seem to be talking for everyone.

Its that the best you have to offer?

You want proof the majority don't want Irish?

What is the primary language of television in Ireland?

What are the viewer ratings for TG4 compared to RTE1?

What is the primary language of Irish media sites and newspapers?

What is the primary language you hear spoken day to day in Ireland?

What language are you conversing in right now?

bear1 · 25-09-2017 10:31AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Its that the best you have to offer?

You want proof the majority don't want Irish?

What is the primary language of television in Ireland?

What are the viewer ratings for TG4 compared to RTE1?

What is the primary language of Irish media sites and newspapers?

What is the primary language you hear spoken day to day in Ireland?

What language are you conversing in right now?

So my answers to this means I represent the entire island?

25-09-2017 10:32AM

bear1 wrote: »

I think you need to take a look at your figures again.
And do you know the difference between 1% of 100 million and 1% of 82 million?

OK, 1.219%

Either way 1 million into a population of 82 Million does not change much,

1 million plus, into a population of 4.5 million is a very significant change.

25-09-2017 10:33AM

bear1 wrote: »

So my answers to this means I represent the entire island?

Do you think the majority of Ireland speaks Irish or English?

backspin. · 25-09-2017 10:34AM

Whats our national anthem again? Shin a finna fail.. na naa nana na naa nana, da da da - da da da.. da da dada. Shin a finna fail na naa na na na na nana...

25-09-2017 10:34AM

backspin. wrote: »

Whats our national anthem again? Shin a finna fail.. na naa nana na naa nana, da da da - da da da.. da da dada. Shin a finna fail na naa na na na na nana...

Another good reason for the national anthem to be changed, paying homage to a political party!

darkdubh · 25-09-2017 10:35AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Its that the best you have to offer?

You want proof the majority don't want Irish?

What is the primary language of television in Ireland?

What are the viewer ratings for TG4 compared to RTE1?

What is the primary language of Irish media sites and newspapers?

What is the primary language you hear spoken day to day in Ireland?

What language are you conversing in right now?

I'm not an Irish language speaker but I'd pick TG4 over RTE anyday.

bear1 · 25-09-2017 10:37AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you think the majority of Ireland speaks Irish or English?

Probably they speak English but before you go on a high why don't you look at the areas with higher than average Irish speakers and compare it then?
I think you are simply looking to stir some reactions rather than got coherent reasons why the language should be scrapped?
It's part of our heritage so why would it not be better to simply overhaul the curriculum so that the language becomes more fun to learn?
Should we remove the irish writing from towns and car number plates?
It's overreaction at its best.

25-09-2017 10:37AM

darkdubh wrote: »

I'm not an Irish language speaker but I'd pick TG4 over RTE anyday.

Maybe you would, but the majority don't, and even then TG4 has English subtitles for many programmes.

bear1 · 25-09-2017 10:39AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Maybe you would, but the majority don't, and even then TG4 has English subtitles for many programmes.

Again you're speaking for the entire nation.
I'd rather rte be wound down and all funding given to tg4 and the majority of the island agrees with me on that one.

25-09-2017 10:42AM

bear1 wrote: »

Probably they speak English but before you go on a high why don't you look at the areas with higher than average Irish speakers and compare it then?
I think you are simply looking to stir some reactions rather than got coherent reasons why the language should be scrapped?
It's part of our heritage so why would it not be better to simply overhaul the curriculum so that the language becomes more fun to learn?
Should we remove the irish writing from towns and car number plates?
It's overreaction at its best.

There are al lot of things that are part of our heritage but nobody is calling for them to be continued or brought back.

The Irish language and national anthem simply does not represent modern Ireland, not does it represent the citizens of Ireland anymore.

Should we forget it ever existed, most certainly not, but it should be taught as a History lesson and not as part of an everyday language that is only used in a tiny part of the Island by a small minority of people.

If people want to continue to learn the language in their own time and at their own cost then that is fine, but to teach it as a language that does not represent the people of this country is a travesty.

Our own national anthem does not even represent the people of the country when such large numbers cannot sing it let alone understand it, I propose it is sung in English so that everyone can understand it.

Do you have a problem with all the citizens of Ireland being able to understand and sing our national anthem?

25-09-2017 10:42AM

bear1 wrote: »

Again you're speaking for the entire nation.
I'd rather rte be wound down and all funding given to tg4 and the majority of the island agrees with me on that one.

How am I speaking for the nation? Viewing figures tell you all you need to know.

bear1 · 25-09-2017 10:43AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are al lot of things that are part of our heritage but nobody is calling for them to be continued or brought back.

The Irish language and national anthem simply does not represent modern Ireland, not does it represent the citizens of Ireland anymore.

Should we forget it ever existed, most certainly not, but it should be taught as a History lesson and not as part of an everyday language that is only used in a tiny part of the Island by a small minority of people.

If people want to continue to learn the language in their own time and at their own cost then that is fine, but to teach it as a language that does not represent the people of this country is a travesty.

Our own national anthem does not even represent the people of the country when such large numbers cannot sing it let alone understand it, I propose it is sung in English so that everyone can understand it.

Do you have a problem with all the citizens of Ireland being able to understand and sing our national anthem?

Did I say that?

bear1 · 25-09-2017 10:44AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

How am I speaking for the nation? Viewing figures tell you all you need to know.

Of course you are, you are saying the majority this and that and we'd rather not have this or that.
So you are speaking for the nation instead of saying I wouldn't want or I believe.
If you want English to be our main language and Irish removed then maybe you should brush up on it a bit.

Time to ditch the Irish language and change the National Anthem?

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