The Greatest Teams Ever Debate (Dublin - The Greatest Team Ever?)

BonnieSituation · 21-09-2017 3:54pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

So is soccer before 1980 irrelevant no best no Pele
is rugby prior before 1980 irrelevant no Lions team 74
Is politics prior to 1980 irrelevant no easter rising no famine no world war 2 no Romans
Was life before 1980 irrelevant.

Unbelievable. I actually saw Barney Rock walking through a Meath Street earlier today. If I knew the above earlier I would have said to Barney your just relevant Barney coz you won an All Ireland in 1983.

Football prior to 1980 is irrelevant.
I have never uttered the following saying in my life to any person before but after reading the above comment I utter word I thought I would never say

Omg omg OMG

Practically irrelevant... In certain senses...

The Talking Bread · 21-09-2017 3:58pm

Nidgeweasel wrote: »

During that little purple patch of 4 points? They got 1 themselves.

https://youtu.be/WEWo-JKgqWs

Full game there for anybody who wants to educate themselves. Mayo the better team

I think you are construing my point in a different sense to what I am getting at

The Talking Bread · 21-09-2017 4:01pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

How anyone thought Mayo were the better team that day is beyond me.

Good jesus.

...blanket defence...

That wasn't the point of my post. I was just picking up on the point of the "scoreless for such and such minutes"

The Talking Bread · 21-09-2017 4:21pm

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 5:04pm

Still didn't answer my question.

If Dublin greatness is question response is no response. Or 1 line smart comments

I understand Dubs are protective of their great team. But we need to be protective of all great teams and past players. We cannot wipe away 100 years of teams and games and players to make the latest flavour of the month greatest.
I don't think Dublin are the greatest team ever. I don't think Dublin are the second greatst team ever. I wouldn't have them in the top 5 greatest teams. I would have them as the greatest team of the last 30 years. And the best team in this decade by a mile. A credit to their county and clubs.
But I do think the media always hype up Dublin and there is very very strong reluctance by ex players and pundits to criticise Dublin. They seem to be above criticism.
I still think these three points are worth consideration when valuing this teams worth
1 This is the worst leinster championship ever
2 How competitive is this era when so many football strong counties are going through worst period in decade
3 Dublin don't have to face a multiple All Ireland winner
4 Dublin have yet to deliver a big final performance. Every win has been hanging on for dear life in injury time
All facts.

Sephiral · 21-09-2017 5:13pm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

2014?

2012. The absolute classic that ended 0-8 to 0-6. Karl Lacey was probably the best defender in the country at the time and went off injured after being taken out of it off the ball.

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 5:15pm

Will any Dub address this stat.
Dublin havent delivered a great All.Ireland final performance since 1977.
Very strange.
Hammered by Kerry in 78 79 and beat them comfortably in 84 85.
83 doesn't count as it was not a football match but a dirtfest of violence
Dreadful v Donegal in 92 and Down 94.
Fell over the line in 95.
And 2011 2013 2016 and 2017 won by 1 point. Best performance was 2015 and Kerry were piss poor one of worst kerry finals performances ever. Yet Dublin still weren't convincing .
Why have Dublin not performed a great performance in their last 12 All Ireland finals.
They have won 5 of the last 6 by 1 point wins.
How can great is this team when they have yet to deliver one standout final performance in 5 finals. And don't say Mayo are great. Dublin have not played well in the last 12 finals not one since 77
No one will.adrres this from Dublin. I'm not making this up. This is all factual.

raiders11 · 21-09-2017 6:01pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

I'm not saying they were a bad team. They were a terrific team. Wonderful achievement in 2012. The defence system was a sight to behold . And McGuiness is a genius.
But the 1992 te was better. 92 team had to face Derry the 1993 All Ireland champions and Down All Ireland champions 91 and 94 year in year out. 3 All Ireland winners in 1 provience. The competitiveness of matchs in Ulster in the early 90s were savage. Proper battles between some of the greatest players teams players and managers to ever play the game. 1994 first round game Down V Derry was as close to a perfect game of football as I ever saw.

The 2012 winning Donegal team had to beat 3 out of the last 4 previous AI winners just to make the final, (Tyrone 2008, Kerry 2009, Cork 2010) and throw in Down too, beaten AI finalists in 2010.... No mean feat to beat them 4 teams to just make the final.

Derry beating Down in the Ulster 1992 semi was a blessing as I do not think we would have beaten Down in the Ulster Final..

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 6:32pm

raiders11 wrote:

The 2012 winning Donegal team had to beat 3 out of the last 4 previous AI winners just to make the final, (Tyrone 2008, Kerry 2009, Cork 2010) and throw in Down too, beaten AI finalists in 2010.... No mean feat to beat them 4 teams to just make the final.

raiders11 wrote:

Derry beating Down in the Ulster 1992 semi was a blessing as I do not think we would have beaten Down in the Ulster Final..

raiders11 wrote:

The 2012 winning Donegal team had to beat 3 out of the last 4 previous AI winners just to make the final, (Tyrone 2008, Kerry 2009, Cork 2010) and throw in Down too, beaten AI finalists in 2010.... No mean feat to beat them 4 teams to just make the final.

raiders11 wrote:

Derry beating Down in the Ulster 1992 semi was a blessing as I do not think we would have beaten Down in the Ulster Final..

No doubt Donegal under McGuiness were sight to behold. I just think 92 team being the first was better. Donegal winning in 92 would be similar to Sligo winning in 2022. Also better players on 92 team. 2012 had 5 or exceptional footballers. It was more the system that McGuiness made that made team the most difficult team to beat in Ireland after the Dubs in this decade.

He had a plan. And it worked brilliantly. But it was not a team it more a movement or a cult . I mean that in a good way. I have rarely seen a county players and supporters come together under 1 man . McGuiness was Donegal.. it was like he looked into the counties soul and knew what made Donegal tick. It was pure genius.

The only time I have seen counties under 1 man before similar to 2012 was loughnane with Clare in 95 and Griffin with Wexford in 96.
McGuiness was a charismatic intelligent very driven modern man. Who was a tactical genius in the modern age.

Donegal in all those games were a sight to behold in 12. I was at Kerry game and Donegal were not going to be beaten that day. You could see kerry been knocked back and back up the field. Every kerry attack was met with a wall of Donegal players that were so driven Kerry would had to have weapons to pass. Brillant defensive display.

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 6:40pm

Still no answer to the fact that Dublin do not play well underperform in finals. 12 finals since Dublin last great performance in a final in 1977. This suspondly the greatest team ever cannot change that trend. They have continued the thread with 1 point wins. And hanging on in injury time after another sub standard performance.
No comments anyone about Dublin failure to perform for 4 decades in 12 finals. What is the problem for the Dubs?. Does the hype get to then. Do the Dubs not have the temperament like kerry and Kilkenny to turn on the style on the big day of a final.
Any comments r we just ignoring another fact that questions the New Zealand of gaelic football.

shockframe · 21-09-2017 6:55pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Still no answer to the fact that Dublin do not play well underperform in finals. 12 finals since Dublin last great performance in a final in 1977. This suspondly the greatest team ever cannot change that trend. They have continued the thread with 1 point wins. And hanging on in injury time after another sub standard performance.
No comments anyone about Dublin failure to perform for 4 decades in 12 finals. What is the problem for the Dubs?. Does the hype get to then. Do the Dubs not have the temperament like kerry and Kilkenny to turn on the style on the big day of a final.
Any comments r we just ignoring another fact that questions the New Zealand of gaelic football.

Have this Dublin team been playing that long? Wow

Todd Gack · 21-09-2017 7:10pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

No comments anyone about Dublin failure to perform for 4 decades in 12 finals. What is the problem for the Dubs?. Does the hype get to then. Do the Dubs not have the temperament like kerry and Kilkenny to turn on the style on the big day of a final

Dublin have won their last 6 finals, the current crop all 5 of theirs, that isn't failing to perform however much you'd like it to be. This anti-Dublin bias is quite amusing.

shockframe · 21-09-2017 7:13pm

My top 10 since the Kerry golden years side.

1 Dublin 2010-17
Easy enough one to start with. Probably 2nd best of all time behind Kerry 75-87. Win the next 2 and they could be the best of all time.
They might go down as the best side never to lose an all Ireland final yet. Remarkable they haven’t lost at least 1.

2 Tyrone 2001-09
At their best a wonderful side. Beat almost everyone in the decade and won the big ‘ulster’ clash of the 00s against Armagh in 2005. Not retaining the title goes against them but like Down in the 60s a perfect finals record against Kerry pushes them up. You’d forget how young they were in 2003. Taking the under 21s they won in 2000+01 and the minor of 2001 they had a flawless decade really. Considering those under 21s backboned the seniors you could argue that both Tyrone and Kerry won 5 all Irelands that decade!

3 Kerry 1997-2010
Fine side and made it look ridiculously easy in full flow. Some outstanding individual talent and only one of few sides to win 5 all Irelands in a decade. They are slightly behind tyrone for not beating them that decade and also they lost the most finals of any great side.

4 Meath 1987-91
Better as a team maybe than individuals but the first great team post micko’s Kerry. Due to their decline now you would forget just how hard they were to beat. The team everyone loved to hate. O Rourke would be worthy of any team or era.Boylan a remarkable figure in the game. One of 2 teams in my top 10 not to be beat Kerry but didn’t play them. Would have beaten them anyway I believe.Winning 2 league titles puts them ahead of the team of 1996-2001. Were on the slide after the epic 1991 campaign. Wonder will the same occur with the next team on the list?….

5 Mayo 2011-17
The odd one out here but easily the best side to never win the all Ireland. Even the story is the most well known GAA story internationally.The standout amount of compelling games they’ve been involved in is exhibit A in ‘modern football is not a bad game at all’. The skill levels under pressure when you watch them closer are staggering. Its no comfort to them but they remain the only time not to win an all Ireland but beat all the other major contenders in the era. Of course no all Ireland won but unreal in their consistency and changing perceptions of Mayo football as a soft team.

6 Cork 1987-96
Might upset Cork fans this. Not a team of great individuals save for the likes of Tompkins and O’Brien. Still the team responsible for breaking the great Kerry side and 4 all Ireland final appearances in a row winning back to back ensures greatness. Possibly left another all Ireland after them but 2 is a good haul. Unlike the 2010 side there was no question marks left as they beat all the major contenders. How Billy Morgan succeeded with such a hostile county board was astonishing.

7 Galway 1998-2001
A team admired than most others. The swashbuckling football of 1998 and the qualifier run of 2001 are as satisfying as anything else in football since 87. The talents of De Paor, Fallon, Donnellan, Joyce were glorious in those years. 2 wins and a draw from 4 all Irelands was excellent. The ease of which they beat Meath in 2001 was quite something. Why behind Mayo? The fade after 2001 when a lot of key players were hitting 25 was one of footballs big disappointments. They were washed away with the changing of the guard in the 00s. There was possibly more in them. Mayo endured almost twice as long.

8 Meath 1996-01
Behind the 87-91 team but a fine side in its own right. Giles and Geraghty as good as footballers as there has ever been. Leinster finalists 5 out of 6 years and might have gone further in 97 only for the Kildare trilogy.Losing badly to galway in 2001 takes the shine off a bit. Never lost to Dublin either and inflicted the joint heaviest defeat to a Kerry team in championship history. That alone would nearly put them on the list.

9 Donegal 2011-14
The least liked side of recent years stylewise I’d say but you have to have them here. Like the recent Atletico Madrid team. Beat all the big teams (the 2012 campign was brilliant) and the last side to beat Dublin in championship in perhaps Mcguinness’ finest hour.Losing the final after and the terrible show in 2013 brings them down somewhat as would less accomplished players. They are ahead of Armagh for their capability to win big games. Also how they went from no hopers in 2012 to all Ireland champions. When cork won in 2010 who would have thought Donegal would storm the castle. There had been hints of all Irelands with others. Almost next to none with Donegal.

10 Down 1991-94
The team that led the way in Ulster’s resurgence in the 90s. Again super individuals and beat Meath in one of the finest finals played. No defeat in a final. Didnt need to be asked twice! Only the current Dublin team can boast that.Last team to beat Dublin in a final too. Outside of all Irelands there isn’t all that much to go on. Was a bit full duck or no dinner with them. Their routes to all Ireland glory seem less demanding than others too.

The Talking Bread · 21-09-2017 7:20pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Still no answer to the fact that Dublin do not play well underperform in finals. 12 finals since Dublin last great performance in a final in 1977. This suspondly the greatest team ever cannot change that trend. They have continued the thread with 1 point wins. And hanging on in injury time after another sub standard performance.
No comments anyone about Dublin failure to perform for 4 decades in 12 finals. What is the problem for the Dubs?. Does the hype get to then. Do the Dubs not have the temperament like kerry and Kilkenny to turn on the style on the big day of a final.
Any comments r we just ignoring another fact that questions the New Zealand of gaelic football.

The more you keep asking for people to reply to you, the likely it is that they will do so...............

Maybe people are sick of answering because you simply won't agree.............

PS, I am not a Dub fan btw!

davedanon · 21-09-2017 7:21pm

Todd Gack wrote: »

Dublin have won their last 6 finals, the current crop all 5 of theirs, that isn't failing to perform however much you'd like it to be. This anti-Dublin bias is quite amusing.

Yeah, the even-handed mask is slipping now. Dublin have SO MANY unfair advantages that it's not enough to win 6 finals in a row. They have to win by annihilating other teams. I'm sure he's making other points, but to be honest his posts are so badly spelled and punctuated that I'm finding them impossible to get through.

Barnavave · 21-09-2017 7:28pm

Haven't read the entire thread, but this current Dublin side are up there with the great Kerry team of the 70s/80s and I have no doubt that they will surpass them in the next few years. Can't see anyone stopping them doing five in a row, in fact if it wasn't for a freakish result against Donegal they'd have already done it.

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 7:41pm

Not hammer team just deliver a very good all round performance
2011 Kerry were the better til final minutes
2013 A poor final average by both teams saved by the brilliance of Brogan .
2015 Best performance but patchy. Kerrys worst performance in a final since Offaly in 1972
2016 Mayo could have won both days. Dublin were not great either days
2017 Mayo could have won. Dublin not great again
I have kept it simple as I can . But people don't want to accept facts. This is what happened . People's response no the facts are wrong. The truth is wrong . I know people are protective about teams . But to say my mask is falling because I criticise a team. Is unfair and wierd. You don't know who I am. I might be decent bloke or could be a bollox. That's irrelevant. The fact is No team is above criticism. I am not entitled to ask a few questions . I have based everything I said on stat after stat. Would that be fair to say. My mask slipping , what kind of millennial gibberish is that.

PS I know my spelling and punctuality is appalling. I just lose the run of myself and rant and rave about the sport I love .
Before I know it I have written 500 words of repeated ramblings on 1997 leinster final.
This is a great Dublin team. And I don't mean to be disrespectful to one of the greatest teams ever. But I have viewpoint based on a love and passion for great players and teams from the present and the past. I mean no offence. Just saying what I believe.

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-09-2017 7:45pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Not hammer team just deliver a very good all round performance
2011 Kerry were the better til final minutes
2013 A poor final average by both teams saved by the brilliance of Brogan .
2015 Best performance but patchy. Kerrys worst performance in a final since Offaly in 1972
2016 Mayo could have won both days. Dublin were not great either days
2017 Mayo could have won. Dublin not great again
I have kept it simple as I can . But people don't want to accept facts. This is what happened . People's response no the facts are wrong. The truth is wrong . I know people are protective about teams . But to say my mask is falling because I criticise a team. Is unfair and wierd. No team is above criticism. I am not entitled to ask a few questions . I have based everything I said on stat after stat. Would that be fair to say. My mask slipping , what kind of millennial gibberish is that.

There are two sides to it, some say the sign of a great team is winning ugly and the Dublin team does that in finals.

On the other hand I have been waiting since 2013 for the shackles to come off and for them to play to their potential in a final. Not sure what it is, some would say mental weakness but then the fact they always find a way to win trumps that.

Also need to be remembered were very good second half on Sunday and had to be to beat a Mayo team playing close to full potential. 11 points from play (I think) is very impressive

When was the last good performance in an All Ireland final?

downthemiddle · 21-09-2017 7:53pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

I think 2012 was a massive chance for Mayo. No Dublin or kerry in the final. But Donegal did what Kerry did to Mayo in 04 and 06. Blow them away in the first 15 mins. Which they did.

But after that the game settled and Mayo played well . Mayo were actually the better team after the first 15 mins. But the damage was done in the first few mins.

Donegal were very well.organisd . A brillant system under a terrific modern tactician manager. But without that system I think there were weaknesses in that Donegal outfit. Look how they were slaughtered the following year by Mayo. That was highly unusual for reigning champions.

Of All the Ulster winner in the last 25 years I would rate 2012 team the weakest team. The 92 Donegal Team was stronger. So was Tyrone and Armagh and down teams.

I think 2o12 was an example of charismatic individual and county merging as one. Like a movement our a cult for the want of a better word. Donegal players and supporters got behind MCGUINESS and it just clicked . Similar to Loughnane with Clare in 95 and Griffin with Wexford in 96.
It was facinating to watch. McGuiness is one of most interesting GAA figures of recent times. Donegal is a fine county with friendly charming people. It is quite a unique county. I think McGuiness seemed to get the whole county to rise up in that period. Similar to Loughnane and Griffin.

Anyone who thinks that Mayo were the better team for 60 mins in the 2012 final is either delusional or has a very limited knowledge of football. Donegal controlled that game from the first minute to the last. They comfortably absorbed everything Mayo threw at them. Mayo never got within three points of them. For all the talk of systems what Donegal did was control games when in a winning position. ( see last Sunday for a prime example of failure to do so) They never left themselves vulnerable to being sucker punched and had a group of players who consistently made the correct decisions. It was one of the most impressive AI wins of recent times considering the opposition they beat along the way. There was weaknesses in that Donegal team?

Name a team without weaknesses. What that Donegal team did better than most was ensure that they identified weaknesses in the opposition and ruthlessly exposed them.
Anyway I'll leave you now to wind up a some unsuspecting Dubs, I'm sure you'll catch a few.

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 8:01pm

To the question asked above regarding the last good performance in a final below are

Answers below All good performances and some even better
Tyrone in 2003 2005 and 2008 finals
Kerry in 2004 and 2006 final
Kerry in 2007 final
Galway in 2001 final
Meath in 1999 final
Galway in 1998 final
Down in 1994 final
Donegal in 1992 final
Meath in 1987 final
Kerry in 84 and 85 final
Kerry in 81 final
Kerry in 78 and 79 final
Dublin in 76 and 77 final
Kerry in 75 final
Cork in 73 final
Offaly in 72 final
Kerry in 70 final
Down in 68 final
Galway in 64 and 66 final
Down in 1960 final
Dublin in 1958 final
Kerry in 1955 final
Meath in 1954 final
Mayo in 1951 final
Meath in 1949 final
Cavan in 1947 and 1948 final

All best performances in finals after World War 2

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 8:07pm

downthemiddle wrote:

Anyone who thinks that Mayo were the better team for 60 mins in the 2012 final is either delusional or has a very limited knowledge of football. Donegal controlled that game from the first minute to the last. They comfortably absorbed everything Mayo threw at them. Mayo never got within three points of them. For all the talk of systems what Donegal did was control games when in a winning position. ( see last Sunday for a prime example of failure to do so) They never left themselves vulnerable to being sucker punched and had a group of players who consistently made the correct decisions. It was one of the most impressive AI wins of recent times considering the opposition they beat along the way. There was weaknesses in that Donegal team? Name a team without weaknesses. What that Donegal team did better than most was ensure that they identified weaknesses in the opposition and ruthlessly exposed them. Anyway I'll leave you now to wind up a some unsuspecting Dubs, I'm sure you'll catch a few.

I have said Donegal 2012 were a brillant team. With a genius of a manager. One of the best defences to come out of Ulster ever. A credit to their county. Brillant throughout 2012. I would absolutely love Meath to have a team now as good as that brillant Donegal Team.
Performance in 2014 v Dublin was a win for the ages. Never to be forgotten.

ThunbergsAreGo · 21-09-2017 8:07pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

To the question asked above regarding the last good performance in a final below are

Answers below All good performances and some even better
Tyrone in 2003 2005 and 2008 finals
Kerry in 2004 and 2006 final
Kerry in 2007 final
Galway in 2001 final
Meath in 1999 final
Galway in 1998 final
Down in 1994 final
Donegal in 1992 final
Cork in 1990 final
Meath in 1987 final
Kerry in 84 and 86 final
Kerry in 81 final
Kerry in 78 and 79 final
Dublin in 76 and 77 final
Kerry in 75 final
Cork in 73 final
Offaly in 72 final
Kerry in 70 final
Down in 68 final
Galway in 64 and 66 final
Down in 1960 final
Dublin in 1958 final
Kerry in 1955 final
Meath in 1954 final
Cavan in 1952 final
Mayo in 1951 final
Meath in 1949 final
Cavan in 1947 and 1948 final

All best performances in finals after World War 2

So almost 10 years ago?

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 8:13pm

naughtb4 wrote:

So almost 10 years ago?

Yes Tyrone performances v Kerry were the best football machine I ever saw. Not the best team. But most drilled and organised football machine I ever saw. The way they had that great Kerry team in a mental vice grip was extraordinary. 2005 was a brillant final. Between two all time great teams. One of the best finals ever.

Utopia Parkway · 21-09-2017 8:17pm

shockframe wrote: »

My top 10 since the Kerry golden years side.

1 Dublin 2010-17
Easy enough one to start with. Probably 2nd best of all time behind Kerry 75-87. Win the next 2 and they could be the best of all time.
They might go down as the best side never to lose an all Ireland final yet. Remarkable they haven’t lost at least 1.

2 Tyrone 2001-09
At their best a wonderful side. Beat almost everyone in the decade and won the big ‘ulster’ clash of the 00s against Armagh in 2005. Not retaining the title goes against them but like Down in the 60s a perfect finals record against Kerry pushes them up. You’d forget how young they were in 2003. Taking the under 21s they won in 2000+01 and the minor of 2001 they had a flawless decade really. Considering those under 21s backboned the seniors you could argue that both Tyrone and Kerry won 5 all Irelands that decade!

3 Kerry 1997-2010
Fine side and made it look ridiculously easy in full flow. Some outstanding individual talent and only one of few sides to win 5 all Irelands in a decade. They are slightly behind tyrone for not beating them that decade and also they lost the most finals of any great side.

4 Meath 1987-91
Better as a team maybe than individuals but the first great team post micko’s Kerry. Due to their decline now you would forget just how hard they were to beat. The team everyone loved to hate. O Rourke would be worthy of any team or era.Boylan a remarkable figure in the game. One of 2 teams in my top 10 not to be beat Kerry but didn’t play them. Would have beaten them anyway I believe.Winning 2 league titles puts them ahead of the team of 1996-2001. Were on the slide after the epic 1991 campaign. Wonder will the same occur with the next team on the list?….

5 Mayo 2011-17
The odd one out here but easily the best side to never win the all Ireland. Even the story is the most well known GAA story internationally.The standout amount of compelling games they’ve been involved in is exhibit A in ‘modern football is not a bad game at all’. The skill levels under pressure when you watch them closer are staggering. Its no comfort to them but they remain the only time not to win an all Ireland but beat all the other major contenders in the era. Of course no all Ireland won but unreal in their consistency and changing perceptions of Mayo football as a soft team.

6 Cork 1987-96
Might upset Cork fans this. Not a team of great individuals save for the likes of Tompkins and O’Brien. Still the team responsible for breaking the great Kerry side and 4 all Ireland final appearances in a row winning back to back ensures greatness. Possibly left another all Ireland after them but 2 is a good haul. Unlike the 2010 side there was no question marks left as they beat all the major contenders. How Billy Morgan succeeded with such a hostile county board was astonishing.

7 Galway 1998-2001
A team admired than most others. The swashbuckling football of 1998 and the qualifier run of 2001 are as satisfying as anything else in football since 87. The talents of De Paor, Fallon, Donnellan, Joyce were glorious in those years. 2 wins and a draw from 4 all Irelands was excellent. The ease of which they beat Meath in 2001 was quite something. Why behind Mayo? The fade after 2001 when a lot of key players were hitting 25 was one of footballs big disappointments. They were washed away with the changing of the guard in the 00s. There was possibly more in them. Mayo endured almost twice as long.

8 Meath 1996-01
Behind the 87-91 team but a fine side in its own right. Giles and Geraghty as good as footballers as there has ever been. Leinster finalists 5 out of 6 years and might have gone further in 97 only for the Kildare trilogy.Losing badly to galway in 2001 takes the shine off a bit. Never lost to Dublin either and inflicted the joint heaviest defeat to a Kerry team in championship history. That alone would nearly put them on the list.

9 Donegal 2011-14
The least liked side of recent years stylewise I’d say but you have to have them here. Like the recent Atletico Madrid team. Beat all the big teams (the 2012 campign was brilliant) and the last side to beat Dublin in championship in perhaps Mcguinness’ finest hour.Losing the final after and the terrible show in 2013 brings them down somewhat as would less accomplished players. They are ahead of Armagh for their capability to win big games. Also how they went from no hopers in 2012 to all Ireland champions. When cork won in 2010 who would have thought Donegal would storm the castle. There had been hints of all Irelands with others. Almost next to none with Donegal.

10 Down 1991-94
The team that led the way in Ulster’s resurgence in the 90s. Again super individuals and beat Meath in one of the finest finals played. No defeat in a final. Didnt need to be asked twice! Only the current Dublin team can boast that.Last team to beat Dublin in a final too. Outside of all Irelands there isn’t all that much to go on. Was a bit full duck or no dinner with them. Their routes to all Ireland glory seem less demanding than others too.

Still don't think you can realistically rate a team that has won zero All-Ireland's over some that have won at least two. Whatever about one.

I know Darragh O'Se said Mayo were the second best side of the past 30 years or something but I just cannot agree with that. It seems like recency bias and doesn't give enough credit to sides like Tyrone 03-08, Kerry in the 00's, Galway 98-01, etc. All super teams who would be even better today under current modern training and physical conditioning methods.

Ultimately truly great teams have to win titles.

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 8:28pm

Utopia Parkway wrote:

I know Darragh O'Se said Mayo were the second best side of the past 30 years or something but I just cannot agree with that. It seems like recency bias and doesn't give enough credit to sides like Tyrone 03-08, Kerry in the 00's, Galway 98-01, etc. All super teams who would be even better today under current modern training and physical conditioning methods.

Utopia Parkway wrote:

Still don't think you can realistically rate a team that has won zero All-Ireland's over some that have won at least two. Whatever about one.

Utopia Parkway wrote:

Ultimately truly great teams have to win titles.

Agree . Quality list. Cannot complain. On the ball with most teams. The only thing I would is move Mesth 87 88 Galway 98 01 and Down 01 and 04 a bit up the list. And yes remove Mayo off the list.
Mayo are the greatest team to never win Sam. But I still a forward line of Carr Blaney Mason McCarten Whiterall and Linden was better then current Mayo forward line. And so was forward line of Fallon Donnellan Finnegan Savage and two Joyce's.
But that's just a personal choice. Excellent top list all the same.

Beechwoodspark · 21-09-2017 8:29pm

C__MC wrote: »

This current Dublin team won the league in the 2013, 14, 15 & 16. They also made the final in 2017. Some going. They also went 30 odd games undefeated as well. I would put them
Up there with the kerry team of the 70/80s

Disagree. Why? Opposition is very poor compared to previous eras. Dubs have an unfair advantage and they know it...it's why the great jimmy Gavin is so modest

Beechwoodspark · 21-09-2017 8:40pm

Sonny678 wrote: »

Yes Tyrone performances v Kerry were the best football machine I ever saw. Not the best team. But most drilled and organised football machine I ever saw. The way they had that great Kerry team in a mental vice grip was extraordinary. 2005 was a brillant final. Between two all time great teams. One of the best finals ever.

Agree. Either of those teams would have no trouble with the current lauded dubs

Sonny678 · 21-09-2017 9:09pm

Beechwoodspark wrote:

Agree. Either of those teams would have no trouble with the current lauded dubs

I agreed. Now I'm going to open up a massive can of worms and watch the reaction and I will be criticised for this from many sections of the board.

Say you had the Kerry Tyrone and Armagh teams 00s around now. Yes Dublin would still win the most All Irelands. Because Dublin team is a better all round team then any of the above. But I could see Tyrone team 03 - 08 well able for Dublin and could beat them . Kerry of the 00s is much superior to current kerry crop.and I could not see them lose 5 matchs in a row v Dublin.

Dublin would still win the majority but surely that Kerry team would win 1 or 2. I couldn't see Armagh team beating Dublin. But they would give them a serious test. If all the above where around now I could see Tyrone winning two All Irelands Kerrys winning 2 and Dublin winning three. I cannot prove this. And their will be outcry from the Dubs . But I definatly see Tyrone and Kerry more then given Dublin a game.

Say the Galway team of 98 01 where around now instead of Mayo. And the Galway team played Dublin in 4 finals. Surely Galway would have won 1 final. Dublin still win win 3 or 4 but that Galway team would win 1 if they were around now.

Say the Meath team of 96 and 99 was around now. I don't think Dublin would have 12 of 13 leinsters. They wouldn't be hammering that Meath team like current crop out the door. I could see that Meath winning a leinster title or 2.and yes Dublin would still have 4 All Ireland . But I could see Meath winning 1 All.Ireland in the current period.

For me 5 All Ireland for Dublin is more down to uncompetitive championship where so many great counties are going through hard times. Meath are having their worst decade since the 30s. I think 3 or 4 All Irelands wins would be morel likely for Dublin if they had to face teams like Tyrone and Kerry 00s and Meath and Galway late 90s.

Dublin would still win the majority of titles as they are still the greatest team of the last 30 years. But th5r worst leinster championship ever, the worst kerry team in decades and so many great counties in a bad state eg Meath Down Armagh Derry Cork Laois Offaly Kildare Galway. Is help to Dublin . Definitely not a hinderance.
I cannot prove this so it quite foolish of me to say. But I do believe it.

Stoner · 21-09-2017 9:27pm

Sonny678 wrote:

For me 5 All Ireland for Dublin is more down to uncompetitive championship where so many great counties are going through hard times. Meath are having their worst decade since the 30s. I think 3 or 4 All Irelands wins would be morel likely for Dublin if they had to face teams like Tyrone and Kerry 00s and Meath and Galway late 90s.

They were good Kerry teams up as far as 2015.

In 2011 they has load of lads who had a few years left in them with about four AIs Gooch was only 28 then. They've added JOD and Geany so they had a good crop

People were calling Kerry great in 2015. They've become crap in some people's eyes because they have been beaten by Mayo.

The truth is different imo. Kerry are a good team, they were a very good team in 2011,12,13,14
Mayo are an excellent team better than any Mayo team I've seen been beaten by Kerry in the past.

The Donegal team were very good they went at it like crazy and messed themselves up for 2013 but 2011 and 2012 they were a serious team and interestingly enough for that period of time I think they would have given the Meath team of 1990 1996 a beating but overall Meath were better but not for that 2 year period.

That Donegal team of 2012 reminded me a lot of that Meath team from N McGee , Lacey, Gallagher , Mcfadden all matching up with a Meath great. Meath didn't have a Michael Murphy though.
They also got in your face like no other team

Stoner · 21-09-2017 9:35pm

Sonny678 wrote:

I cannot prove this so it quite foolish of me to say. But I do believe it.

You've made some interesting points, they will be very popular with some here, some flutes too.

Overall I agree with your assessment of Leinster.
I'll go one step further and be even more unpopular.

When Dublin and Mayo dipped the other counties picked up provincial titles and didn't get over the line.
Westmeath, Offaly, Kildare, Laois.

They all needed both Dublin and Meath to be relatively poor at the same time to win a provincial title after 96.

The Greatest Teams Ever Debate (Dublin - The Greatest Team Ever?)

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