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High Noon with George Hook.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭PeterTheNinth


    nc6000 wrote: »
    Judging by this and the papers today, it looks like a lot of people have an axe to grind with Hook and are using this as an excuse to settle some old scores.

    I did wonder if Off The Ball and Gilroy in particular were waiting in the long grass for him given the bust up that happened a few years ago.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I did wonder if Off The Ball and Gilroy in particular were waiting in the long grass for him given the bust up that happened a few years ago.

    Off the Ball have been going down the route of ESPN style virtue signalling of late, I fully expected most of that lot were part of the usurping.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Here's Brenda Power's take on the George Hook controversy.

    I wholeheartedly agree with her regarding the hypocrisy of Paul Murphy's boycotting of Newstalk given his treatment of Joan Burton and her assistant, Karen O'Connell. The Solidarity TD Paul Murphy said he did not think Hook should continue broadcasting for the station.

    “I think his comments were beyond inappropriate and he should be removed from the programme,” said Mr Murphy, who confirmed that would be the party’s requirement for ending its action.

    It really is a bit rich of Paul Murphy to be lecturing anyone.
    BRENDA POWER
    September 17 2017, 12:01am, The Sunday Times

    Censorship and free speech based on fear not fairness — can I say that?
    Brenda Power



    Paul Murphy announced last week that he and fellow members of the Solidarity party would boycott Newstalk until George Hook was sacked for making inappropriate comments about a rape victim.

    Clearly Murphy and his pals couldn’t abide remarks or behaviour that might cause distress to a vulnerable woman. So long as the vulnerable woman wasn’t a 65-year-old female politician, obviously, or her younger adviser. So long as the behaviour didn’t involve trapping women in their car for over two hours. So long as the comments didn’t include labelling them “whores”, “hags” and “bitches”, as Joan Burton and Karen O’Connell were called during an anti-water charges protest in Jobstown in 2014.

    Murphy is a great defender of free speech when it comes to protesters shouting at women. Not so great, alas, when it comes to a radio presenter making a comment — ignorant, stupid and offensive as it was — that was clearly designed to provoke, because provoking is Hook’s job. It’s the job he’s been doing for years; those are the views he’s been articulating for years. And it’s the same show to which the likes of Murphy, and other grandstanding refuseniks of the past week, were delighted to add their male voices, on a virtually all-male station, whenever they got the chance.

    But Murphy has apparently never met a mob he didn’t like, so when they came for Hook, he linked arms and piled in.

    News of Hook’s suspension was greeted by a rapaciously righteous social media mob as a relief: they would never, they cheered, have to listen to his twisted, hateful opinions again. But this is a serious business. We need to find out who’s been forcing these people to listen to Hook; who has been chaining them to their seats and piping Hook into their homes and workplaces the same way Guantanamo inmates are forced to listen to Westlife.


    Here’s the thing about free speech. For it to have any value, it has to be free. You have the right to inform, to reflect, to influence. You’ve also got to have the right to insult, to hurt, to outrage — and to be offended. Manners, civility and compassion should dictate how you choose your targets, but not the law and not the lynch mobs.

    In a real democracy, you agree to be confronted by opinions you abhor
    Alas, once again, we’ve established that free speech in this country means the freedom to agree with an approved, and strictly policed, doctrine. Say the wrong thing and you will be hounded out of your job, your career, your very sanity by that baying mob of the righteous, vying to outdo each other in their indignation. Once again, we are under the cosh of brutal censors who truly believe they are the only censors in the history of censorship to justify their censoring by claiming: “Ah, but we are right . . . ”

    Hook deserves all the criticism he has provoked. His comments about a teenage rape victim deserving “blame” were outrageous. Suggesting a drunken girl is fair game doesn’t just shame every victim of sexual assault, it casts every man as a sexually incontinent predator. But Hook’s comments have flushed out an alarming amount of support for this view. Online comment threads, even on mainstream sites, were often 50-50. We need to know these views are out there so the next time a rapist gets away with a suspended sentence or an insulting cash payment to his victim, or a parish priest leads a queue of sympathisers to shake his hand, or a victim refuses to press charges, we’re not scratching our heads in bewilderment. That’s the whole point of free speech.

    In a real democracy, you agree to be confronted by opinions you abhor. You understand that silencing a dangerous viewpoint is not the same as altering it. You dismantle echo chambers by breaking down their walls and exposing them to light. We fear heights, psychologists say, not because we’re afraid we’ll fall, but that we’ll jump. Censorship is an exercise in fear, not fairness. I sometimes wonder how many of our more vocal censors hasten to silence abhorrent opinions out of a secret fear that they share them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,999 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Ahhh Kitty friend of the travellers and the same SJW who went on Moncrieff after the Irish J1 students died in the balcony tragedy and started her own version of victim blaming because their families had a bit of money to send them to the states! Even Moncrieff had to call her out on that one!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭foxtrot101


    Off the Ball have been going down the route of ESPN style virtue signalling of late, I fully expected most of that lot were part of the usurping.

    The old OTB crew would of covered the same stories and adopted the same stances as the current lot. The only thing that has changed is the people posting on the OTB thread.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 596 ✭✭✭Conservative


    Is it any surprise Murphy has it in for George, he had a dig at "Deputy Murphy" almost everyday of the week because he saw him for the fraud he is.

    A privately educated son of a Mars executive who's rebellion wasn't getting a tattoo or listening to some punk rock but to become the complete opposite of what his parents are - a defender of the indefensible in society who will jump on any perceived injustice at a whim - an absolute misery guts.

    These PPB (whatever factions they have now) muppets have an office near me in Dun Laoghaire. They're all about the working man until it comes to wearing Adidas shoes/carrying iPhones made in sweatshops.

    Middle class obnoxious bunch of tossers the lot of them.

    Don't agree with much else she said.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Vorenus400


    Is it any surprise Murphy has it in for George, he had a dig at "Deputy Murphy" almost everyday of the week because he saw him for the fraud he is.

    A privately educated son of a Mars executive who's rebellion wasn't getting a tattoo or listening to some punk rock but to become the complete opposite of what his parents are - a defender of the indefensible in society who will jump on any perceived injustice at a whim - an absolute misery guts.

    These PPB (whatever factions they have now) muppets have an office near me in Dun Laoghaire. They're all about the working man until it comes to wearing Adidas shoes/carrying iPhones made in sweatshops.

    Middle class obnoxious bunch of tossers the lot of them.

    Don't agree with much else she said.


    Im surprised at Murphy as he appeared regularly on the show. He seemed well able for George too. Brenda seems to be more concerned with putting him down than addressing the current trouble.

    Last I heard Brenda on the Hook show was right after trump was elected. She was going mad and claiming that it was pure sexist that Trump won. I wouldnt put much worth in her opinion


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,353 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    Vorenus400 wrote: »
    Im surprised at Murphy as he appeared regularly on the show. He seemed well able for George too. Brenda seems to be more concerned with putting him down than addressing the current trouble.

    Last I heard Brenda on the Hook show was right after trump was elected. She was going mad and claiming that it was pure sexist that Trump won. I wouldnt put much worth in her opinion

    I'd put a lot more worth into her opinion than yours, I'm sorry to say.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Vorenus400 wrote: »
    Im surprised at Murphy as he appeared regularly on the show. He seemed well able for George too. Brenda seems to be more concerned with putting him down than addressing the current trouble.

    Last I heard Brenda on the Hook show was right after trump was elected. She was going mad and claiming that it was pure sexist that Trump won. I wouldnt put much worth in her opinion
    I agree with you about Brenda's comments after Trumps win, she made some sarky remark about Trump's son Barron looking bored, he was only 10 years old at the time. I thought that was particularly unkind of her. Young children should always be off limits.

    Having said all that, I believe we need people like her, Myers & Hook who are actually prepared to share an opinion instead of censoring every word incase they offend people.

    While Myers and Hook have messed up very badly, I do agree with Brenda (for once), we should challenge people's opinions instead of calling for them to be sacked. Sacking people like George achieves very little, sacking him will do nothing to help prevent rape where as some of his comments (not the victim blaming part) might have.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,330 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Ahhh Kitty friend of the travellers and the same SJW who went on Moncrieff after the Irish J1 students died in the balcony tragedy and started her own version of victim blaming because their families had a bit of money to send them to the states! Even Moncrieff had to call her out on that one!

    Kitty also had a go at the Repeal movement as it was too middle class and not a complete women's issue movement :confused:

    She thought there wasn't enough members from marginalised communities and that the movement itself should have had a wider remit :confused::confused:


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,353 ✭✭✭✭Brendan Bendar


    I agree with you about Brenda's comments after Trumps win, she made some sarky remark about Trump's son Barron looking bored, he was only 10 years old at the time. I thought that was particularly unkind of her. Young children of favourite people should be off limits.

    Having said all that, I believe we need people like her, Myers & Hook who are actually prepared to share an opinion instead of censoring every word incase they offend people.

    While Myers and Hook have messed up very badly, I do agree with Brenda (for once), we should challenge people's opinions instead of calling for them to be sacked. Sacking people like George achieves very little, sacking him will do nothing to help prevent rape where as some of his comments (not the victim blaming part) might have.

    I'm afraid I don't agree, taking the ability to promulgate twisted and bitter opinions from people who seem to want to self promote themselves as 'rebels' and try to con the public into believing that they actually are, is a great weapon.

    That's what Hook is, and this poster would opine that NT made a good decision .

    But of course NT probably encouraged this to increase audience.

    Corporate decision- got caught out.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Vorenus400


    I'd put a lot more worth into her opinion than yours, I'm sorry to say.


    Id have to trust my own opinion. Cant always be calling Brenda up and asking what should I have for dinner:D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭PeterTheNinth


    From a purely political point of view, this is good news for the left wing politicians, just like Murphy and Ruth Coppinger. George was always to the front in holding them to account for their actions. Certainly Murphy will be happy to see him go.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭longshanks


    Who do you fine people reckon will replace him?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,105 ✭✭✭Vorenus400


    longshanks wrote: »
    Who do you fine people reckon will replace him?

    If Ivan hadnt started the hard shoulder, he would have been a perfect replacement. I can see them doing someone like Dr Ciara Kelly and then when she fails, sticking in someone who stirs up controversial opinions.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,298 ✭✭✭✭Nekarsulm


    longshanks wrote: »
    Who do you fine people reckon will replace him?

    Whats Anton Savage at these days?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Maybe they'll draft in someone from the weekend slots. Bobby whatshisname, one radio unfreindly voice to replace another. Except they won't. NT know this is a great chance to shut up critical reaction to some degree by giving a woman a prime slot.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭Morgans


    What is Kevin Myers doing these days?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    I'm afraid I don't agree, taking the ability to promulgate twisted and bitter opinions from people who seem to want to self promote themselves as 'rebels' and try to con the public into believing that they actually are, is a great weapon.

    That's what Hook is, and this poster would opine that NT made a good decision .

    But of course NT probably encouraged this to increase audience.

    Corporate decision- got caught out.
    I genuinely feel that most of what George was saying last Friday week was coming from a genuine place, that of a concerned Father/Grandfather looking out for his own.

    I've already said on the thread that my own father used to lecture me and my sisters every single weekend when we were teenagers - never leave drinks unattended and never walk home alone etc.

    I'm older now, with a home and family of my own but only last year my father asked me to go hiking with a local club instead of climbing two local mountains on my own. He had some anxiety about me being on my own in a remote area. To quote him, he was afraid I 'might meet the wrong kind'.

    Some people might think that this is old fashioned and patronising but I know he meant well, in the same way as some of my male work colleagues offer to walk me to my car on a dark winter evening.

    I'm an independent and strongwilled woman but I'm so glad to have some men in my life who still look out for me, I don't always have to accept their advice or their assistance but I think the world would be a much poorer place if men felt it was unPC to offer it.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Morgans wrote: »
    What is Kevin Myers doing these days?

    Ah yes the 'anti-Semite' replacing the misogynist! :pac:


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 34,763 CMod ✭✭✭✭CiDeRmAn


    There's a difference between managing risk and assuming or apportioning blame.
    If you walk on a dark lonely road alone you increase your risk of being assaulted.
    You might be foolish, daft or plain irresponsible but you are not to blame if you are assaulted, that blame squarely lies with the person who assaults you.
    George, people speculate, meant that a person has to take some responsibility for their own safety.
    But that's not what he said, he said that blame lay also with the person who is raped as they engaged in risky behaviour, and this is false.
    Not only is it false but it acts as an impediment to women coming forward following rape as they may feel that they are to blame, in part at least, by drinking, or wearing something.
    They aren't to blame.
    Ever.
    The blame rests with the rapist.
    For the sake of victims of rape, regardless of gender, the blame must rest with those who commit the act of sexual assault, and only with them.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭Morgans


    I genuinely feel that most of what George was saying last Friday week was coming from a genuine place, that of a concerned Father/Grandfather looking out for his own.

    I've already said on the thread that my own father used to lecture me and my sisters every single weekend when we were teenagers - never leave drinks unattended and never walk home alone etc.

    I'm older now, with a home and family of my own but only last year my father asked me to go hiking with a local club instead of climbing two local mountains on my own. He had some anxiety about me being on my own in a remote area. To quote him, he was afraid I 'might meet the wrong kind'.

    Some people might think that this is old fashioned and patronising but I know he meant well, in the same way as some of my male work colleagues offer to walk me to my car on a dark winter evening.

    I'm an independent and strongwilled woman but I'm so glad to have some men in my life who still look out for me, I don't always have to accept their advice or their assistance but I think the world would be a much poorer place if men felt it was unPC to offer it.

    Yes. I think it was coming from a good place from George and I think the apology was sincere. Not what I was expecting. It was fulsome. I certainly wouldnt want him sacked for this, and the pile on has been ugly. Id like to think that if you happened to meet the wrong kind and was (god forbid) raped, that your father or grandfather would be there for you rather than making the point that you were in some way responsible for the rape, given that you hiked alone/walked home alone. Hook clarified this in his apology.

    However, the 'free speechers, the PC gone mad brigade, parroting the alt-right wannabes, kicking back at the liberals, the seem to think that being controversial is by of itself good enough to broadcast. Katie Hopkins is available for work. If upsetting liberals is what you want to do, then that's who you want.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,585 ✭✭✭✭Lady Chatterton


    Morgans wrote: »

    Id like to think that if you happened to meet the wrong kind and was (god forbid) raped, that your father or grandfather would be there for you rather than making the point that you were in some way responsible for the rape, given that you hiked alone/walked home alone.

    Absolutely, he would NEVER EVER blame me but I kind he would feel that he was negligent as a parent if he didn't highlight a potential danger.

    I think it's any parents first instinct to protect their children as much as they can, hence all the warnings. (From not talking to strangers when your five to warnings about personal safety and driving behaviour when your older).

    I believe this was the motivation for George's comments.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,295 ✭✭✭Lt Dan


    Chris Donoghue says he will be discussing Hook next on his show.

    Hang on, if normal due process is on going,whether it was a court case, Tribunal or employment proceedings, the norm would be that people shut their mouths until the process has concluded.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Lt Dan wrote: »
    Hang on, if normal due process is on going,whether it was a court case, Tribunal or employment proceedings, the norm would be that people shut their mouths until the process has concluded.

    No it isnt. People talk about it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,373 ✭✭✭The_Captain


    I think he tried to bluster his way out as usual with his "I'm a straight shooter, telling like it is" guff then made a cynical apology to try to keep his job.

    He still has the absolute right to say whatever he wants on twitter, on the street in the papers or anywhere that will have him, but people strangely seem to think he has a right to a radio show. He has no more right to be paid for his opinions than anyone else and now he's paying the price for years of being an arsehole


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,439 ✭✭✭Morgans


    Lt Dan wrote: »
    Hang on, if normal due process is on going,whether it was a court case, Tribunal or employment proceedings, the norm would be that people shut their mouths until the process has concluded.

    And it wouldnt be all over the papers today. There is a remarkable amount of thin skinned snowflake behaviour among the Hook defenders. Donoghue as a role as political editor (like it or not) and if he steps out of line, Im sure George, his solicitors or newstalk will have something to say.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭PeterTheNinth


    longshanks wrote: »
    Who do you fine people reckon will replace him?

    It's a difficult one for them. I think because of all the recent references to their lack of female presenters and the "Men's Shed FM" slight on them by the most pious woman in Ireland (thanks Harry, :pac:), I would say that the job will almost certainly be given to a female presenter. Ciara Kelly would probably get it if it wasn't completely obvious to everybody that the figures would go down the pan. Maybe Sarah McInerney will get it, as somebody mentioned earlier?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,869 ✭✭✭PeterTheNinth


    Lt Dan wrote: »
    Hang on, if normal due process is on going,whether it was a court case, Tribunal or employment proceedings, the norm would be that people shut their mouths until the process has concluded.

    You are correct Dan, and Chris said nothing. He just posed questions to the other panelists and kept his own opinions to himself. It was still odd though, you would have thought that they would have put a bit more distance between him and the topic.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,705 ✭✭✭Mountainsandh


    CiDeRmAn wrote: »
    But that's not what he said, he said that blame lay also with the person who is raped as they engaged in risky behaviour, and this is false.
    .

    But he didn't say, he asked. Cue, discussion. Not suspension.


This discussion has been closed.
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