Christian parents 'to sue school' coz boy in son's class was allowed to wear dress

Irish Guitarist · 14-09-2017 07:14AM

I see a lot of people referring to him as an eight year old. He's actually six.

And I can see how this nonsense would be disruptive for a class of six year olds.

She added: "He was under stress partly because of the way he learns as a boy – he enjoys being outside – and also the confusion that was caused by having a boy in his class who decided to announce that they were going to have a girl's name and be dressed as a girl."

The child is probably used to hanging around with another boy. This boy then announces he's a girl and has a girls name. Then a day or two later he's a boy again. How the fuck is a six year old supposed to get used to that? And any child who can't get used to it is called a bully. I wonder how many parents have had their time wasted because the principal called them into the school over their son 'bullying' this boy.

14-09-2017 07:54AM

Irish Guitarist wrote: »

I see a lot of people referring to him as an eight year old. He's actually six.

And I can see how this nonsense would be disruptive for a class of six year olds.

The child is probably used to hanging around with another boy. This boy then announces he's a girl and has a girls name. Then a day or two later he's a boy again. How the fuck is a six year old supposed to get used to that? And any child who can't get used to it is called a bully. I wonder how many parents have had their time wasted because the principle called them into the school over their son 'bullying' this boy.

Welcome to 2017, if a six year old boy says they're a girl, they're a girl and you better be ok with that.

Gravelly · 14-09-2017 08:30AM

AMKC wrote: »

Whats crazy about that? If the child is behaving like a girl and acts like a girl even do it is supposed to be a boy just because it looks like one then maybe that child wants to be a girl and grow up to be a women. You could try a leave and try to force the child to wear trousers even do the child does not want to thats worse. What if that means that child is then not happy lives on unhappy life and then has to start the sex change later even do the parents new he was not and he and clearly not happy being a he. He can still turn into the woman he wants to be but not as easy. Some might not even get that far they might do something that there is no recovery from like suicide because they were forced to be something they are not because of how they look and because society says so. Children are a lot smarter and much cleverer now than they were 20 or 30 years ago and they are more sure of their self's now to then previous generations were.

But the point that seems to get lost in all this insanity is, a boy can't grow up to be a woman. Any more than he can grow up to be a unicorn or Superman. You can dress him in a unicorn costume or a Superman outfit, but he still won't be a unicorn or Superman.

When I was a kid, our little eccentricities were humoured, tolerated up to a point, but not indulged. Nowadays it seems that any idiotic idea anybody, child or adult, comes up with has to be treated as if it is totally rational and indulged to the nth degree. A 6 year old boy who wants to wear a dress to school won't be irreparably damaged if he's told that he can't, and more than I was irreparably damaged at that age when I was told I couldn't bring my new dog to school. There seems to be a race on with liberals to break every societal norm, as if societal norms were somehow bad. They fail to see that, without rules, we have anarchy. If this type of rubbish is indulged, in a short few years we will have chaos in schools as every kid will be allowed to do, say, and act as they wish because to do otherwise would be "bigoted" - a line has to be drawn somewhere, and little boys pretending to be girls when they clearly aren't is a good place to start.

nozzferrahhtoo · 14-09-2017 08:34AM

MadDog76 wrote: »

Oh it's real alright but it should be treated as opposed to being pandered to which seems to be the new trend.

Sweetemotion wrote: »

Until they fully understand the choices they are about to make.

Ehhh thats education not treatment. The user said the children should be "treated" and when asked what the treatment should be A) the user did not reply and

you then suggested the people in question should be educated about the implications of the choices and treatments.

The two are very different things, so the question remains open.

There are many problems to the "treat it" narrative, but two major ones jump to mind above all the others:

ONE

Treatment, and what it should actually entail, is not at this time available or clear. We are not sure how to treat it and "pandering" to it might at this time be the only treatment available.

Another interesting condition where this is true, for example, is Apotemnophilia. People with this condition genuinely and truly want one or more of their own "perfectly" working limbs removed. The limb is an imposition on their life, a source of pain, discomfort, depression and more.

We simply have no treatment for it and such people often travel to countries where the medical ethics allow for the removal of the limb and they return much happier people with a major reduction in their suffering and major rise in their personal well being.

It would be MUCH better if we could "fix" them I am sure, to fix whatever "error" at the level of their brain is causing this condition. Then they could continue in life with all their limbs happily.

TWO

Even if a "cure" were available many would not see it as a "cure" at all. And we can not ethically force it on them. This is a part of peoples very identity we are talking about here.

Another analogy and parallel here is deaf people. There are many deaf people who suggest that were they offered a "cure" for their condition, or were they able to edit the genome of their zygotes to ensure their children did not have the condition, they would not use it. Being deaf is their identify, their life.... and they wish to continue like that.

Such a concept was also represented in the X-Men movies. In one of the movies a "cure" for the mutations was created and offered to the Mutant Public. Some took it. Some refused. Despite the judgement, the hatred, the fear, and so on their genome causes in others they would not sacrifice their identity just to be "normal".

The same is and would be true of many homosexuals for example. If the cause of homosexuality was found, and a treatment to switch it to heterosexuality was offered........ then despite all the violence and homophobia and judgement people get in this world many would not take it (though many would) because homosexual is who and what they are.

It is easy to simply decree that people are "sick" and require a "treatment" or a "cure"..... but many people with or without the condition do not see it as a condition or a disease or a fault. They see it as part of that persons individual identity. And they see nothing there to "treat" and they do not see acknowledgement of it as "pandering" either.

Especially given, when asked repeatedly, the people on this thread saying a boy in a dress is "not ok" can not back up that declaration and soap boxing in any way whatsoever other than to screech "opinion" over and over again at anyone who asks and pretend that somehow their right to expressing one is being impinged upon when it is not.

silverharp · 14-09-2017 08:57AM

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Ehhh thats education not treatment. The user said the children should be "treated" and when asked what the treatment should be A) the user did not reply and you then suggested the people in question should be educated about the implications of the choices and treatments.

The two are very different things, so the question remains open.

There are many problems to the "treat it" narrative, but two major ones jump to mind above all the others:

ONE

Treatment, and what it should actually entail, is not at this time available or clear. We are not sure how to treat it and "pandering" to it might at this time be the only treatment available.

Another interesting condition where this is true, for example, is Apotemnophilia. People with this condition genuinely and truly want one or more of their own "perfectly" working limbs removed. The limb is an imposition on their life, a source of pain, discomfort, depression and more.

We simply have no treatment for it and such people often travel to countries where the medical ethics allow for the removal of the limb and they return much happier people with a major reduction in their suffering and major rise in their personal well being.

It would be MUCH better if we could "fix" them I am sure, to fix whatever "error" at the level of their brain is causing this condition. Then they could continue in life with all their limbs happily.

TWO

Even if a "cure" were available many would not see it as a "cure" at all. And we can not ethically force it on them. This is a part of peoples very identity we are talking about here.

Another analogy and parallel here is deaf people. There are many deaf people who suggest that were they offered a "cure" for their condition, or were they able to edit the genome of their zygotes to ensure their children did not have the condition, they would not use it. Being deaf is their identify, their life.... and they wish to continue like that.

Such a concept was also represented in the X-Men movies. In one of the movies a "cure" for the mutations was created and offered to the Mutant Public. Some took it. Some refused. Despite the judgement, the hatred, the fear, and so on their genome causes in others they would not sacrifice their identity just to be "normal".

The same is and would be true of many homosexuals for example. If the cause of homosexuality was found, and a treatment to switch it to heterosexuality was offered........ then despite all the violence and homophobia and judgement people get in this world many would not take it (though many would) because homosexual is who and what they are.

It is easy to simply decree that people are "sick" and require a "treatment" or a "cure"..... but many people with or without the condition do not see it as a condition or a disease or a fault. They see it as part of that persons individual identity. And they see nothing there to "treat" and they do not see acknowledgement of it as "pandering" either.

Especially given, when asked repeatedly, the people on this thread saying a boy in a dress is "not ok" can not back up that declaration and soap boxing in any way whatsoever other than to screech "opinion" over and over again at anyone who asks and pretend that somehow their right to expressing one is being impinged upon when it is not.

it draws in other ethical concerns, with some deaf people they go out of their way to have deaf kids for example by seeking a sperm donor who is congenitally deaf as opposed to someone who became deaf for other reasons.

The main problem I see with the point of this thread is that we are dealing with kids. Let them make their own minds up when they are older teenagers and not as 6 year olds because it might just be a phase or the kid might simply be gay and there is no good reason to complicate their lives anymore

Gravelly · 14-09-2017 12:00PM

An incident in London yesterday perfectly encapsulates the insanity around the new drive for gender madness. A group of feminists organised a meeting to discuss the UK Gender Identity Act and how it would affect women, but a bunch of "trans activists" bullied the venue into cancelling the booking. The feminists then decided to meet up at Hyde Corner (symbolic of free speech!) and make their way to a new, secret venue, but the "trans activists" were waiting for them and physically attacked them.

A read of the twitter timeline of one of the feminists makes for interesting reading - the "trans activists" comparing feminists to fascists, while acting like fascists themselves!

https://twitter.com/isacsohn

This is where the "let the little boy wear a dress to school, if you don't you're a bigot" stuff is headed.

silverharp · 14-09-2017 12:10PM

Gravelly wrote: »

An incident in London yesterday perfectly encapsulates the insanity around the new drive for gender madness. A group of feminists organised a meeting to discuss the UK Gender Identity Act and how it would affect women, but a bunch of "trans activists" bullied the venue into cancelling the booking. The feminists then decided to meet up at Hyde Corner (symbolic of free speech!) and make their way to a new, secret venue, but the "trans activists" were waiting for them and physically attacked them.

A read of the twitter timeline of one of the feminists makes for interesting reading - the "trans activists" comparing feminists to fascists, while acting like fascists themselves!

https://twitter.com/isacsohn

This is where the "let the little boy wear a dress to school, if you don't you're a bigot" stuff is headed.

while not aiming this at trans individuals it is amusing when the activists start eating each other. You are seeing weird things in sports where there are now m to f MMA fighters or m to f trans rapist sent to a women's prison, which objectively is not in women's interests

AMKC · 14-09-2017 12:30PM

Gravelly wrote: »

But the point that seems to get lost in all this insanity is, a boy can't grow up to be a woman. Any more than he can grow up to be a unicorn or Superman. You can dress him in a unicorn costume or a Superman outfit, but he still won't be a unicorn or Superman.

When I was a kid, our little eccentricities were humoured, tolerated up to a point, but not indulged. Nowadays it seems that any idiotic idea anybody, child or adult, comes up with has to be treated as if it is totally rational and indulged to the nth degree. A 6 year old boy who wants to wear a dress to school won't be irreparably damaged if he's told that he can't, and more than I was irreparably damaged at that age when I was told I couldn't bring my new dog to school. There seems to be a race on with liberals to break every societal norm, as if societal norms were somehow bad. They fail to see that, without rules, we have anarchy. If this type of rubbish is indulged, in a short few years we will have chaos in schools as every kid will be allowed to do, say, and act as they wish because to do otherwise would be "bigoted" - a line has to be drawn somewhere, and little boys pretending to be girls when they clearly aren't is a good place to start.

But the point that seems to get lost in all this insanity is, a boy can't grow up to be a woman

Of course he can grow up to be a women if he is transitioning to be a girl well then does not not mean he will become a women? Sure she will not be able to have baby's like a GG women but she can have breasts and have the same experience of other girls growing of having her breasts develop if the transition was started early enough. She would have a vagina and can have sex so can make a man or women happy.

Sure if the boy only shows traits of being the opposite sex for a week or a month ok thats too short but if they are still showing it after a year or even two then maybe that is what they want to be.

Things like this are not rushed they have to live as the opposite sex for two yeas before any hormones or operations can be used or carried out.

Gravelly · 14-09-2017 12:35PM

AMKC wrote: »

But the point that seems to get lost in all this insanity is, a boy can't grow up to be a woman

Of course he can grow up to be a women if he is transitioning to be a girl well then does not not mean he will become a women? Sure she will not be able to have baby's like a GG women but she can have breasts and have the same experience of other girls growing of having her breasts develop if the transition was started early enough. She would have a vagina and can have sex so can make a man or women happy.

Sure if the boy only shows traits of being the opposite sex for a week or a month ok thats too short but if they are still showing it after a year or even two then maybe that is what they want to be.

Things like this are not rushed they have to live as the opposite sex for two yeas before any hormones or operations can be used or carried out.

Nope. He won't grow up to be a woman. This is where the suspension of belief is required. He can be operated on, and given hormones to make him look more like a woman, but he will still be genetically, a man. I've no problem referring to a transperson by whatever pronoun they wish, but I can't make my mind unsee the emperor has no clothes.

AMKC · 14-09-2017 01:32PM

Gravelly wrote: »

Nope. He won't grow up to be a woman. This is where the suspension of belief is required. He can be operated on, and given hormones to make him look more like a woman, but he will still be genetically, a man. I've no problem referring to a transperson by whatever pronoun they wish, but I can't make my mind unsee the emperor has no clothes.

I disagree with you. Hormones do more than make him/her look like a women. They change the hormones flowing around in that persons body and change the way that they express their feelings. For instance she will now find herself crying more and at things she might not have if she was still a man. Boys and men for instance either do not talk about their feeling or express them as anger whereas a women will talk about it and express them with a bigger range of emotions such as empathy, sympathy, crying etc.

....... · 14-09-2017 01:36PM

This post has been deleted.

Grayson · 14-09-2017 02:10PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Welcome to 2017, if a six year old boy says they're a girl, they're a girl and you better be ok with that.

Where are people saying that? people are saying that gender dysmorphia can exist in a child that age and that professionals are the ones who should deal with it. If the professionals believe it's best for the child that they be allowed dress differently than that's ok.

It's not an ideology. You're not being oppressed. You're having a tantrum over what a child wears.

silverharp · 14-09-2017 02:52PM

....... wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

and yet the dating market doesn't believe you

mzungu · 14-09-2017 02:54PM

silverharp wrote: »

and yet the dating market doesn't believe you

What does the dating market have to do with it?

silverharp · 14-09-2017 03:05PM

mzungu wrote: »

What does the dating market have to do with it?

the vast majority of men or women want to date the opposite sex , a trans man or woman wouldn't fall into the grouping of the "opposite sex" .

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2017 03:08PM

silverharp wrote: »

the vast majority of men or women want to date the opposite sex , a trans man or woman wouldn't fall into the grouping of the "opposite sex" .

what does this have to do with a 6 year old kid?

silverharp · 14-09-2017 03:10PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

what does this have to do with a 6 year old kid?

I was responding to the comment below

Her DNA will not change but I dont normally know anything about someones DNA by looking at them - indeed, even if I am intimate with them, I wouldnt know anything about their DNA.

ceadaoin. · 14-09-2017 03:12PM

AMKC wrote: »

But the point that seems to get lost in all this insanity is, a boy can't grow up to be a woman

Of course he can grow up to be a women if he is transitioning to be a girl well then does not not mean he will become a women? Sure she will not be able to have baby's like a GG women but she can have breasts and have the same experience of other girls growing of having her breasts develop if the transition was started early enough. She would have a vagina and can have sex so can make a man or women happy.

Sure if the boy only shows traits of being the opposite sex for a week or a month ok thats too short but if they are still showing it after a year or even two then maybe that is what they want to be.

Things like this are not rushed they have to live as the opposite sex for two yeas before any hormones or operations can be used or carried out.

Well aside from the fact that a vagina has functions other than being penetrated, if a male child is put on puberty blockers and then onto cross sex hormones then they might not be able to have surgery as there is not enough there to 'work with' due to the fact that development was stunted by the blockers. Transgender teen and reality star jazz Jennings was recently told that surgery is unlikely due to this. Who knows the long term effects of never going through puberty and developing to their full potential. It's child abuse tbh.

Grayson · 14-09-2017 03:17PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It's child abuse tbh

But so is forcing a child to identify as a gender that they're not. And so is the discrimination they'd face from members of the population that are posting on here.

Which is why I say that the medical professionals should be the ones to ok any action. There should be plenty of counselling and everyone should get over themselves.

Apparently i have an ideology when i say that a child should have ongoing counselling & support and that the best path to take is one that professionals, the child and their parents all agree on.

silverharp · 14-09-2017 03:17PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well aside from the fact that a vagina has functions other than being penetrated, if a male child is put on puberty blockers and then onto cross sex hormones then they might not be able to have surgery as there is nothing there to 'work with' due to the fact that development was stunted by the blockers. Transgender teen and reality star jazz Jennings was recently told that surgery is unlikely due to this. Who knows the long term effects of never going through puberty and developing to their full potential. It's child abuse tbh

On kids this is Franken-medicine , Even a couple of reasonably well known Trans people have called it child abuse. I know it's rare to give these kids puberty blockers but still it just seems wrong.

ceadaoin. · 14-09-2017 03:26PM

Grayson wrote: »

But so is forcing a child to identify as a gender that they're not. And so is the discrimination they'd face from members of the population that are posting on here.

Which is why I say that the medical professionals should be the ones to ok any action. There should be plenty of counselling and everyone should get over themselves.

Apparently i have an ideology when i say that a child should have ongoing counselling & support and that the best path to take is one that professionals, the child and their parents all agree on.

They can identify as whatever they want and present as however they want. When they are old enough to make the decision to start medication then they can. Any evidence that we have shows that most don't choose to transition in adulthood. Apparently thinking that a child should wait until maturity to make life changing decisions is oppression now.

Grayson · 14-09-2017 03:29PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

They can identify as whatever they want and present as however they want. When they are old enough to make the decision to start medication then they can. Any evidence that we have shows that most don't choose to transition in adulthood. Apparently thinking that a child should wait until maturity to make life changing decisions is wrong now.

If I remember correctly, the study you're referring to was very vague on their definition of what counts as identifying with another gender. If a boy played with a doll at one stage in their childhood they would be counted as identifying with another gender. And that's not what we're talking about.

However, you do have a point. It's not something that should be rushed into. And that's why I think the best way to make such a huge decision is with the advice of medical specialists.

ceadaoin. · 14-09-2017 03:44PM

Grayson wrote: »

If I remember correctly, the study you're referring to was very vague on their definition of what counts as identifying with another gender. If a boy played with a doll at one stage in their childhood they would be counted as identifying with another gender. And that's not what we're talking about.

However, you do have a point. It's not something that should be rushed into. And that's why I think the best way to make such a huge decision is with the advice of medical specialists.

It was more than one study. If you read any account of transgender children, toys and clothes are often used as an indicator of how the parent "knew" their child was trans at a young age. "I knew my child was really a girl because she always liked dolls and dresses" is very common. The doctor mentioned earlier in the article claimed to be able to tell that a 6 month old was transgender ffs. All based on gender stereotypes.

Neyite · 14-09-2017 04:08PM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

It was more than one study. If you read any account of transgender children, toys and clothes are often used as an indicator of how the parent "knew" their child was trans at a young age. "I knew my child was really a girl because she always liked dolls and dresses" is very common. The doctor mentioned earlier in the article claimed to be able to tell that a 6 month old was transgender ffs. All based on gender stereotypes.

There is a growing trend for it to be diagnosed in children of religious parents where their religion denounces homosexuality, but accepts transgenderism. If a boy appears to be effeminate or a girl to be tomboy they are happier to go with steering the child towards being in the 'wrong body' rather than being gay. It follows that a child or teen who might be struggling with their sexuality in such a traditional household is going to see being acceptably transgender as their issue rather than being unacceptably gay, because one gets denounced by their parents and peers and the other one gets sympathy, support and understanding. If you are a scared teen who feels different it's not too hard to see what version you might want to be.

I do believe that there are many genuine transgender folk out there. I'm just concerned with the bandwaggoning just because a boy likes a toy kitchen or My Little Pony instead of trucks for a short time in their lives.

14-09-2017 04:38PM

Grayson wrote: »

Where are people saying that? people are saying that gender dysmorphia can exist in a child that age and that professionals are the ones who should deal with it. If the professionals believe it's best for the child that they be allowed dress differently than that's ok.

It's not an ideology. You're not being oppressed. You're having a tantrum over what a child wears.

Never said I was being oppressed. Point to me where I had a tantrum? What I'm saying here is there are laypeople on the thread saying kids as young as 6 can be what whatever they to be, and if you don't agree with that, you're *insert label here.* Kids aged 6 haven't a clue what they want in the long term. They're still figuring out the world. Kids aged 12 are still figuring themselves out.

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2017 04:40PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Never said I was being oppressed. Point to me where I had a tantrum? What I'm saying here is there are laypeople on the thread saying kids as young as 6 can be what whatever they to be, and if you don't agree with that, you're *insert label here.* Kids aged 6 haven't a clue what they want in the long term. They're still figuring out the world. Kids aged 12 are still figuring themselves out.

you are posting in a thread about a guy who wants to sue a school because a kid is being let be whatever they want to be. that goes a little beyond disagreement.

Gravelly · 14-09-2017 04:42PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

you are posting in a thread about a guy who wants to sue a school because a kid is being let be whatever they want to be. that goes a little beyond disagreement.

They're not actually trying to sue the school though....

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2017 04:44PM

Gravelly wrote: »

They're not actually trying to sue the school though....

what am i missing?

A Christian couple are reportedly threatening to sue a Church of England primary school because it allowed a boy in their son's class to wear a dress.

MadDog76 · 14-09-2017 04:46PM

AMKC wrote: »

I do not think it is a fad or that they are all forced but there might be a few maybe where the parents wanted a girl instead of a boy or vice-versa and in that case then yes it is wrong but if the boy or girl wants to be the opposite sex and clearly displays signs of being more like the other sex well then yes its no harm for a specialist psychiatrist to check them out and do the tests and decide if the child is indeed meant to be of the opposite sex. I see nothing wrong with that. I think its great that they have that choice so young as the younger they start the better the outcome.
I think there is very few parents that would force there child to have a sex change not just because forcing them would be wrong but because I am sure most parents life's are hectic enough and expensive enough without having to go through all of that.

I wasn't referring to parents forcing their male children to dress female (or vice versa), I was referring to the opinion that this new fad of gender fluidity/transwhatever is all "ok" being forced down the throats of those who do not agree with it ........... being labelled a phobicwhatever seems to be the go-to retort when the validity of this new trend is questioned in any way whatsoever.

ohnonotgmail · 14-09-2017 04:49PM

MadDog76 wrote: »

I wasn't referring to parents forcing their male children to dress female (or vice versa), I was referring to the opinion that this new fad of gender fluidity/transwhatever is all "ok" being forced down the throats of those who do not agree with it ........... being labelled a phobicwhatever seems to be the go-to retort when the validity of this new trend is questioned in any way whatsoever.

how is it being forced down anybodies throat?

Christian parents 'to sue school' coz boy in son's class was allowed to wear dress

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