Isn't multiculturalism great...

GerryDerpy · 12-09-2017 08:43AM

WinnyThePoo wrote: »

Nope, your just trying to justify you being ya know, a racist. Failing badly aswell.

Why do you think I'm a racist? Something I posted?

GerryDerpy · 12-09-2017 08:50AM

Brian? wrote: »

There's an evolutionary drive towards racism. Grand, we get it.

Yet the majority of people are not racist. So are us non racists more evolved? No, we're not. So evolutionary instincts are clearly not the determining fact as to whether a person is a bigot or not. That's s product of environment.

Therefore, trying to sell evolution as the reason people are racist is disingenuous at best. It's something to hide behind if you're a bigot and you don't really understand psychology.

It is productive to understand the reasons behind someone's way of thinking. Asking why is someone racist. Bigotry is not a reason, it is the result.

The majority of people in your population are probably not racist. But go to the Middle East, Asia etc. and you will see a difference. As long as it is no longer beneficial to be racist, the racism will no longer be selected.

Yee can cry and be emotive about it all yee want.

Brian? · 12-09-2017 08:59AM

GerryDerpy wrote: »

It is productive to understand the reasons behind someone's way of thinking. Asking why is someone racist. Bigotry is not a reason, it is the result.

The majority of people in your population are probably not racist. But go to the Middle East, Asia etc. and you will see a difference. As long as it is no longer beneficial to be racist, the racism will no longer be selected.

Yee can cry and be emotive about it all yee want.

Who's crying and being emotive?

So what's your answer? You've pointed out that people evolved to be bigoted, should we just accept it and move on?

How do you explain us non bigots?

GerryDerpy · 12-09-2017 09:06AM

Brian? wrote: »

Who's crying and being emotive?

So what's your answer? You've pointed out that people evolved to be bigoted, should we just accept it and move on?

How do you explain us non bigots?

I am not going to say you should move on, up to you.

Non-racists exist because the trait of racism is no longer selected as being beneficial.

Brian? · 12-09-2017 09:13AM

GerryDerpy wrote: »

I am not going to say you should move on, up to you.

Non-racists exist because the trait of racism is no longer selected as being beneficial.

That's complete nonsense. It's an abdication of responsibility for one's own opinions.

Bigots are a product of environment, not breeding. Ironically, they believe breeding is so important they believe they're bred to be bigoted.

You seem to think we should allow bigots to carry on because of evolution. You're wrong, nothing would ever change if that's how society behaved.

GerryDerpy · 12-09-2017 09:17AM

Brian? wrote: »

That's complete nonsense. It's an abdication of responsibility for one's own opinions.

Bigots are a product of environment, not breeding. Ironically, they believe breeding is so important they believe they're bred to be bigoted.

You seem to think we should allow bigots to carry on because of evolution. You're wrong, nothing would ever change if that's how society behaved.

Ok clearly your knowledge of evolution is at the shallow end, so I will ask this instead: what is the benefit of this bigotry you see in people? Why do they bother? Why is their environment driving them this way?

Brian? · 12-09-2017 09:21AM

GerryDerpy wrote: »

Ok clearly your knowledge of evolution is at the shallow end, so I will ask this instead: what is the benefit of this bigotry you see in people? Why do they bother? Why is their environment driving them this way?

I agreed at least 4 posts ago that there is indeed an evolutionary drive towards being insular and xenophobic. Did you miss that?

What I'm saying is that we can outgrow this drive. How do I know we can? Because large sections of society have already outgrown it.

Just like we outgrew the drive toward polygamy or the drive to believe in a god.

You believe bigotry is inherently in our nature and that's that. It is, but we've moved on.

GerryDerpy · 12-09-2017 09:25AM

Brian? wrote: »

I agreed at least 4 posts ago that there is indeed an evolutionary drive towards being insular and xenophobic. Did you miss that?

What I'm saying is that we can outgrow this drive. How do I know we can? Because large sections of society have already outgrown it.

Just like we outgrew the drive toward polygamy or the drive to believe in a god.

You believe bigotry is inherently in our nature and that's that. It is, but we've moved on.

Sorry I must have missed it. So we agree on everything then bar the very last line. I believe it is inherent but gradually is unselected. You can't move on from millions of years of evolution over the space of your lifetime.

silverharp · 12-09-2017 09:49AM

Brian? wrote: »

I agreed at least 4 posts ago that there is indeed an evolutionary drive towards being insular and xenophobic. Did you miss that?

What I'm saying is that we can outgrow this drive. How do I know we can? Because large sections of society have already outgrown it.

Just like we outgrew the drive toward polygamy or the drive to believe in a god.

You believe bigotry is inherently in our nature and that's that. It is, but we've moved on.

who says the evolutionary drive wouldn't still confer advantage? Japan for example hasn't gone down the multicultural route and recently their Police have come out and said they have nothing to do, there isn't any crime. Japan might be a far more stable country in the future than Germany or France?

DickSwiveller · 12-09-2017 09:51AM

No. Multiculturalism means no culture.

Pinch Flat · 12-09-2017 09:55AM

How does it mean no culture? I'm living in one of the most diverse areas in Dublin 15, over all a positive experience. My kid plays with Libyan, Turkish, Romanian children. No issues. They are part of our community - so a community clean ups, join us in our annual barbecue. They join in our soccer and GAA clubs. We respect their culture and they ours. I really didn't see what the issue is. I'm glad that my son will grow up wit an appreciation of other cultures ,so it's not alien to him.

beans · 12-09-2017 10:04AM

Beware moral relativism, that's the only caveat I can see.

What's acceptable in Afghanistan (as an example) is not necessarily acceptable in Ireland, and once our Afghan-Irish brethren accept this and act accordingly while living in Ireland, everyone benefits.

I live in London, where you could argue either side of the coin. I see a lot of ghettoisation where English isn't spoken, which doesn't aid integration. You end up with cultures living side by side, but not mixing, and that doesn't seem healthy for a society as a whole. And then you have the majority of people I know from diverse cultural backgrounds, bringing the flavour of those cultures into the more general day-to-day business of being living in England among English people.

jmayo · 12-09-2017 10:14AM

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I have some Muslim friends. Guess what they don't want to throw me off a roof!

That must be great comfort to the undoubted thousands of LGBTs living in muslim dominated North Africa, Middle East and Western Asia.

But shure what am I saying those countries have no LGBT and any they do have don't last so long.

I can't ever remember that many Gay Pride marches in Iran, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Egypt.

beans wrote: »

Beware moral relativism, that's the only caveat I can see.

What's acceptable in Afghanistan (as an example) is not necessarily acceptable in Ireland, and once our Afghan-Irish brethren accept this and act accordingly while living in Ireland, everyone benefits.

I live in London, where you could argue either side of the coin. I see a lot of ghettoisation where English isn't spoken, which doesn't aid integration. You end up with cultures living side by side, but not mixing, and that doesn't seem healthy for a society as a whole. And then you have the majority of people I know from diverse cultural backgrounds, bringing the flavour of those cultures into the more general day-to-day business of being living in England among English people.

Mind reminding us which religious group, which races are the ones primarily creating and living in these ghettos and not mixing as well as the rest ?

beans · 12-09-2017 10:28AM

jmayo wrote: »

Mind reminding us which religious group, which races are the ones primarily creating and living in these ghettos and not mixing as well as the rest ?

In my limited slice of experience, and from what I can tell, east-African Muslims and south-Asian Hindus. Yesterday I came across a young girl translating for her minder (mother?) at a market, as the adult presumably didn't speak English.

Brian? · 12-09-2017 10:47AM

GerryDerpy wrote: »

Sorry I must have missed it. So we agree on everything then bar the very last line. I believe it is inherent but gradually is unselected. You can't move on from millions of years of evolution over the space of your lifetime.

It's not millions of years of evolution. Modern humans haven't existed for millions of years. Out cultural identities are at best 150,000 years old. And they're not actually that old.

Xenophobia and racism are ideas. Ideas large swathes of western society don't hold. So I'd say we have overcome it in about 100 years. We also evolved Independent thought which means we can discard outdated ideas quite quickly.

We can consciously choose not to be racist. That's evolution as well. You're entirely too committed to this idea that everything is selected naturally. It's an oversimplification.

Brian? · 12-09-2017 10:49AM

silverharp wrote: »

who says the evolutionary drive wouldn't still confer advantage? Japan for example hasn't gone down the multicultural route and recently their Police have come out and said they have nothing to do, there isn't any crime. Japan might be a far more stable country in the future than Germany or France?

Japanese society is doomed without a large scale correction. Birth rates are plummeting. Swathes of Japanese men are no longer interested in sex. The homogeneous nature of Japanese society may keep the crime low, but it doesn't mean the society is healthy.

Brian? · 12-09-2017 10:50AM

beans wrote: »

In my limited slice of experience, and from what I can tell, east-African Muslims and south-Asian Hindus. Yesterday I came across a young girl translating for her minder (mother?) at a market, as the adult presumably didn't speak English.

He wanted you to say Muslims and you let him down. Shame. Don't you know Muslims are here to destroy society?????

Brian? · 12-09-2017 10:52AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

How does it mean no culture? I'm living in one of the most diverse areas in Dublin 15, over all a positive experience. My kid plays with Libyan, Turkish, Romanian children. No issues. They are part of our community - so a community clean ups, join us in our annual barbecue. They join in our soccer and GAA clubs. We respect their culture and they ours. I really didn't see what the issue is. I'm glad that my son will grow up wit an appreciation of other cultures ,so it's not alien to him.

How are the kebab shops?

beans · 12-09-2017 10:53AM

Brian? wrote: »

He wanted you to say Muslims and you let him down. Shame. Don't you know Muslims are here to destroy society?????

#NotAllMuslims

MOH · 12-09-2017 10:55AM

BillyBobBS wrote: »

Multiculturalism should not be confused with a society that is simply open minded and accepting to its communities or majorities. Multiculturalism is a dangerous component to forcing a culture to change. The idea itself is inherently good and rooted in philosophies that have undisputed reverence to the values of liberty and equality. However, reacting and instigating change must be done from both a situational perspective and an ethical one. Multiculturalism today, employed in Germany, the UK and France has ultimately failed.

You must visit these countries to see the dynamic changes that have taken place. Every culture exists because people have been raised with those customs, through history and humanity. There will always be dominant cultures that consciously or unconsciously make others a minority. So we see separate communities spring up, ghettoes created, additional rises in crime, and the eventual persecution of the parent culture of the nation in a web of contradicting morals, opinions and expectations.

In Denmark/Sweden and several EU countries, women have been raped/harassed in public for not donning certain religious wear. Laws have been changed to accommodate certain militant aspects in particular religions. How can we claim to protect cultures and learn from them if we lose our own?

What unity in our nation will we will have if we have no national identity? To be in another country is to respect it, and if one is to reside there, one must be aware of the customs. So the same must be said for western civilizations. We cannot forget the past, of Imperialism, but we cannot build our policies both public and foreign on guilt of past colonial aggressions.

I value my country, my freedom and my fellow citizens, regardless of age, regardless of party and regardless of race. Together we have to come to fair terms with preserving our own culture without destroying the opportunities of others to find a better life. The current multicultural idea of just accepting anyone and everyone with only the hintest reference of learning english is unacceptable. Most people who support multiculturalism are suburban middle class to upper middle class individuals, who attend post secondary and live their lives shielded from the real causes of multiculturalism, who have never experienced real repression.

For every offence against someone who is different, there is always a similar story occurring in their country where the values they believed were challenged. It is natural to be blinded by rhetoric, but the policies of certain governments will spell the end for our own culture within a decade. Islam will take over.

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Where did you cut and paste that from?

From here, apparently

12-09-2017 11:03AM

silverharp wrote: »

who says the evolutionary drive wouldn't still confer advantage? Japan for example hasn't gone down the multicultural route and recently their Police have come out and said they have nothing to do, there isn't any crime. Japan might be a far more stable country in the future than Germany or France?

If you go to Japan and actually listen to the conversations that Japanese people have with each other, quite often its a competition to find out who is more Japanese than the other. Due to its historic aggression in Asia, and migration of other asian peoples into Japan, there has been a seriously large amount of inter-breeding.. i.e. mixed parentage.

In many areas of Japan, there are concerns that the numbers of "pure" japanese people are too low compared with those of mixed heritage.

The problem with Asia is that it's various cultures typically resist mingling with other cultures. The native culture remains dominant and foreign cultures are curiosities rather than actually becoming integrated.

I've lived in China, Japan, Taiwan, and Thailand... and I knew that no matter how many years I lived there, how well I spoke the language, if i was married to a local and had kids.... I would still be a foreigner. There is no way culturally to join with them... and that is there for other asians too. God help any ABC (American born Chinese) that go to live long term in China... they get worse racism directed to them than anyone else.. except perhaps chinese/japanese combinations... regardless of how it came about. In China there are roughly 57 Ethnic groups.. and "Han" represents a very clear majority.. The Chinese perception of other cultures tends to continue with that same logic.. other cultures are fine as long as they're a clear minority..

The point is that you cannot compare multiculturalism in Europe with Asia.. or Africa. The manner in which the local culture perceives foreign cultures is just too damn different.. and the way they respond.

silverharp · 12-09-2017 11:06AM

Brian? wrote: »

Japanese society is doomed without a large scale correction. Birth rates are plummeting. Swathes of Japanese men are no longer interested in sex. The homogeneous nature of Japanese society may keep the crime low, but it doesn't mean the society is healthy.

they aren't doomed, they are automating their society so they will be richer and have a higher standard of living as time goes on. Its not like Japan's pop can keep growing, its only a small island. In the long run it would be even better with less people.

dav3 · 12-09-2017 11:08AM

Day 3...the same names and re-regs still popping up, outraged that the OP had a nice day with foreign people. Can they carry this sh*t on to day 4?

Every thanks the OP gets, they die a little bit more inside. I'm looking forward to the 8 hour long youtube clips telling us about white genocide and the breitbart and daily mail links that will inevitably appear over time. They're always good for a laugh.

Benjamin Buttons · 12-09-2017 11:08AM

Well done 'MOH'.
So 'BillyBobBS' is a plagiarist and therefore a liar, as he was passing this tripe off as his own stuff.
I thought he had lifted it from someone like Geert Wilders, but fúcked if I was going to trawl through his hate-filled bile in order to trip up little BillyBob.
Thanks.

silverharp · 12-09-2017 11:16AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If you go to Japan and actually listen to the conversations that Japanese people have with each other, quite often its a competition to find out who is more Japanese than the other. Due to its historic aggression in Asia, and migration of other asian peoples into Japan, there has been a seriously large amount of inter-breeding.. i.e. mixed parentage.

In many areas of Japan, there are concerns that the numbers of "pure" japanese people are too low compared with those of mixed heritage.

The problem with Asia is that it's various cultures typically resist mingling with other cultures. The native culture remains dominant and foreign cultures are curiosities rather than actually becoming integrated.

I've lived in China, Japan, Taiwan, and Thailand... and I knew that no matter how many years I lived there, how well I spoke the language, if i was married to a local and had kids.... I would still be a foreigner. There is no way culturally to join with them... and that is there for other asians too. God help any ABC (American born Chinese) that go to live long term in China... they get worse racism directed to them than anyone else.. except perhaps chinese/japanese combinations... regardless of how it came about. In China there are roughly 57 Ethnic groups.. and "Han" represents a very clear majority.. The Chinese perception of other cultures tends to continue with that same logic.. other cultures are fine as long as they're a clear minority..

The point is that you cannot compare multiculturalism in Europe with Asia.. or Africa. The manner in which the local culture perceives foreign cultures is just too damn different.. and the way they respond.

Japan is unusual for sure, I think the younger people are more chilled though so the edge might go over time, they don't seem to have a negative view of people with a Korean extract in Japan. Im fine with European wide multiculturalism but the Japanese would be mad to do what Germany did over the last few years just to be "trendy" or replicate the "Sweden" experiment.
The Japanese can always change their minds.

12-09-2017 11:23AM

silverharp wrote: »

Japan is unusual for sure, I think the younger people are more chilled though so the edge might go over time, they don't seem to have a negative view of people with a Korean extract in Japan. Im fine with European wide multiculturalism but the Japanese would be mad to do what Germany did over the last few years just to be "trendy" or replicate the "Sweden" experiment.
The Japanese can always change their minds.

I'm curious... have you spent any time in Japan?

The reason I ask is that there is a rather strong social/cultural pressure on Japanese people not to change their minds. Oh, they'll do wacky things while young, joining all manner of weird groups, but once they reach graduation most of that falls away.. The problem is that most Japanese cannot afford financially to remain open-minded, and therefore need to sacrifice it so that they can make a living.

I can remember arriving in Japan thinking i'd be living in a technological marvel.. and then marvelled at the VCR in my living room.

silverharp · 12-09-2017 11:29AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I'm curious... have you spent any time in Japan?

The reason I ask is that there is a rather strong social/cultural pressure on Japanese people not to change their minds. Oh, they'll do wacky things while young, joining all manner of weird groups, but once they reach graduation most of that falls away.. The problem is that most Japanese cannot afford financially to remain open-minded, and therefore need to sacrifice it so that they can make a living.

I can remember arriving in Japan thinking i'd be living in a technological marvel.. and then marvelled at the VCR in my living room.

Ive been there with work but wouldn't claim any insider knowledge . WIth a western mindset I'm not saying we should adopt their culture but just their attitude to migration etc might stand to them well in the future because they wont have the fracture issues one is starting to see in Europe.

Pinch Flat · 12-09-2017 11:39AM

Brian? wrote: »

How are the kebab shops?

Hah I miss my Pakistani neighbour's seekh kebab & falafel. No kebab shops around us unfortunately. The local Pakistani restaurant is very good. Our Polish neighbours also introduced us to kielbasa - delicious on the barbecue.

dav3 wrote: »

Day 3...the same names and re-regs still popping up, outraged that the OP had a nice day with foreign people. Can they carry this sh*t on to day 4?

Every thanks the OP gets, they die a little bit more inside. I'm looking forward to the 8 hour long youtube clips telling us about white genocide and the breitbart and daily mail links that will inevitably appear over time. They're always good for a laugh.

It really eats up a lot of people that you can enjoy living close to dem forreners.

Will I Am Not · 12-09-2017 11:46AM

dav3 wrote: »

Day 3...the same names and re-regs still popping up, outraged that the OP had a nice day with foreign people. Can they carry this sh*t on to day 4?

Every thanks the OP gets, they die a little bit more inside. I'm looking forward to the 8 hour long youtube clips telling us about white genocide and the breitbart and daily mail links that will inevitably appear over time. They're always good for a laugh.

I don't see anybody outraged that he had a nice day. More like people trying to explain to him what multiculturalism actually is and other people arguing over racism being part of our makeup.

Brian? · 12-09-2017 11:50AM

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Brian? wrote: »

How are the kebab shops?

Hah I miss my Pakistani neighbour's seekh kebab & falafel. No kebab shops around us unfortunately. The local Pakistani restaurant is very good. Our Polish neighbours also introduced us to kielbasa

Pity about the kebabs. I'm a friend for the kielbasa myself.

Isn't multiculturalism great...

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