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Christian parents 'to sue school' coz boy in son's class was allowed to wear dress

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    They did clarify on the news this evening that they aren't actually suing anyone, they're just bringing it before the board of governors or something of that magnitude. They didn't look at all prepared for speaking on TV, they both came across as a bit wooly about what the problem was and what they wanted. They definitely weren't coming across as anti transgender anyway, they are more just questioning the wisdom of allowing children of 6,7,8 to be allowed to make these decisions and then live with the consequences. They weren't doing a good job of it anyway. It didn't look like a more widely orchestrated campaign.

    It's too late for facts, and for them to come across all reasonable now - the torches have been lit and the pitchforks sharpened and the mob must be satiated.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 110 ✭✭MissMayo


    I honestly don't get the big deal. Clothes are a man made thing, therefore society is to blame for the bs of "boys wear trousers but girls wear dresses and skirts".

    Remember that it was less than 100 years ago that it became an everyday occurrence to see women wearing pants. You'd swear any sort of change would bring about the apocalypse with the way some people respond to anything outside their norm.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,008 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    Did anyone see Transgender Kids, the Louis Theroux doc? In it there was one child who was maybe 8 who was supposedly transgender. His mum was very adament that he desperately wanted this and was very upset about all the misunderstanding they were facing. She was dressing him as a girl and I think sending him to school as a girl. He was showing Louis his favourite dress, a princess costume dress. Louis asked him what he would like to be when he grew up and he responded "I want to be a daddy". When he was asked about it he painted a picture of himself as a dad of a few kids with a wife. He clearly had no idea be was setting himself in a road where that would not be possible.

    It's a very frightening, eye opening program, if definitely recommend watching it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭somefeen


    I remember when I was a little boy if someone tried to put me in a dress I'd have killed them.

    Its a bit ridiculous for people to just assume the parents are forcing this on them. There's no evidence to suggest that.
    If the child does identify as a girl than it would be harmful to force her to be a boy.

    Anytime there's a thread here on trans people it always just boils down to people opposing it because they don't like trans people. Simple as.
    I predict this thread will include multiple tenuous arguments and logical fallacies. All construed to try and provide some rational explanation for bigotry.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Did anyone see Transgender Kids, the Louis Theroux doc? In it there was one child who was maybe 8 who was supposedly transgender. His mum was very adament that he desperately wanted this and was very upset about all the misunderstanding they were facing. She was dressing him as a girl and I think sending him to school as a girl. He was showing Louis his favourite dress, a princess costume dress. Louis asked him what he would like to be when he grew up and he responded "I want to be a daddy". When he was asked me about it he painted a picture of himself as a dad of a few kids with a wife. He clearly had no idea be was setting himself in a road where that would not be possible.

    It's a very frightening, eye opening program, if definitely recommend watching it.

    I saw that programme, and it was very sad. One of the mothers was clearly trying to turn her son into a girl purely to get back at the kids father after he left her.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    somefeen wrote: »
    I remember when I was a little boy if someone tried to put me in a dress I'd have killed them.

    Its a bit ridiculous for people to just assume the parents are forcing this on them. There's no evidence to suggest that.
    If the child does identify as a girl than it would be harmful to force her to be a boy.

    Anytime there's a thread here on trans people it always just boils down to people opposing it because they don't like trans people. Simple as.
    I predict this thread will include multiple tenuous arguments and logical fallacies. All construed to try and provide some rational explanation for bigotry.

    I've no problem with transpeople or any adult who wants to identify as anything they like. I have a major issue with parents using their kids as virtue-signalling instruments, and possibly destroying their lives in the process.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    I hear they're making transgenderism mandatory in Educate Together schools


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    somefeen wrote: »
    Anytime there's a thread here on trans people it always just boils down to people opposing it because they don't like trans people. Simple as.

    That's simply not true. To dismiss anything which opposes Transgenderism as bigotry would give Transgenderism (and the things which it brings with it) an exemption from criticism or debate. Nothing should have that privilege.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,736 ✭✭✭Irish Guitarist


    If you're an adult you can cross dress all you want but if you force that shite on your children they should be taken away from you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    As a parent you are meant to protect your child from the big bad world not set them up for ridicule


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,039 ✭✭✭✭retro:electro


    I've no problem with people being whatever the fcuk they want to be once they're 18 and have the cognitive capacity to understand the magnitude of their decisions. I think it's pure muck to encourage your child's wishes to be the opposite gender when they have no clue what they are even talking about. If this was the reality in my house my brother would be my sister right now as we have more pictures of him in frocks as a young 'un than of me. Daft.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 445 ✭✭Academic




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Go back less than a hundred years and half the posters in this thread would be collapsing left and right with rage-vapours because girls are wearing TROUSERS.

    It's clothing, not surgery.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭somefeen


    Noveight wrote: »
    That's simply not true. To dismiss anything which opposes Transgenderism as bigotry would give Transgenderism (and the things which it brings with it) an exemption from criticism or debate. Nothing should have that privilege.

    You want to criticise and debate peoples personal identities?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    Gravelly wrote: »
    It's too late for facts, and for them to come across all reasonable now - the torches have been lit and the pitchforks sharpened and the mob must be satiated.


    Hang on, are you trying to simultaneously rile up a Down With This Sort Of Thing mob and at the same time decry the mob mentality?

    Mind-boggling, just mind-boggling.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,349 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    My brothers 7 year old loves to dress as Darth Vader and want to be 'evil' when he grows up.


  • Posts: 10,222 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why would a parent try to brainwash their child into believing they're the wrong gender? Do you honestly believe that to be more likely than parents simply allowing a child to wear what they want and figure out their identity by themselves in their own time? Ffs.

    Yes


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,092 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    B0jangles wrote: »


    Hang on, are you trying to simultaneously rile up a Down With This Sort Of Thing mob and at the same time decry the mob mentality?

    Mind-boggling, just mind-boggling.

    Some minds aren't difficult to boggle.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Arcade_Tryer


    Boom_Bap wrote: »
    At 8 years old, the child probably still believes in Santa Clause, suspicious about the Easter Bunny, confident about the tooth fairy and lets their life decisions revolve around their XBox.

    They do not give a f*ck about what anyone is wearing unless its a fat man in a red suit.
    Not to mention the parents who believe there is a magical man who lives in the sky.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,637 ✭✭✭jaykay74


    Didn't Jesus wear a dress ? Pretty sure he didn't wear trousers anyway.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,495 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Maybe I've missed something, but how can a 6 year old decide to be transgender?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,008 ✭✭✭_Whimsical_


    somefeen wrote: »
    I remember when I was a little boy if someone tried to put me in a dress I'd have killed them.

    Its a bit ridiculous for people to just assume the parents are forcing this on them. There's no evidence to suggest that.
    If the child does identify as a girl than it would be harmful to force her to be a boy.

    Anytime there's a thread here on trans people it always just boils down to people opposing it because they don't like trans people. Simple as.
    I predict this thread will include multiple tenuous arguments and logical fallacies. All construed to try and provide some rational explanation for bigotry.

    I really don't agree with you, to express concern here is not bigotry at all. Parents don't necessarily know they're doing it or intend to foist this upon their kids. There has been a growing movement of this across the US and more recently in Europe too, an ideology that believes your child will know their own gender at 2,before they can speak or comprehend most anything in the world and that they will tell you what they want. Lots of well meaning but anxious parents are taken in by this idea and in trying to do what they think is best but theyre reading ordinary childish behaviors as cues of transgenderism. They fear they'll discover it too late for their child to seamlessly transition or have hormonal blockers so some are rushing right in to socially transition the child immediately.
    But it's a big deal, you'r talking about setting tiny children on a path they can't possibly understand,one that one day will lead to dramatic hormonal upheaval, very serious operations, the loss of their fertility, you'll be determining the small group of people from whom they might choose a sexual partner or life partner from in years to come because not everyone is open to a transgender partner. It really could not be more enormous.

    Below are some extracts from the Newyorker, a left leaning publication by any reckoning. These pieces highlight how some adults are imposing their anxieties on small children because of this movement. The whole article is worth reading but I thought I'd just highlight two pieces to illustrate the level of confusion that has arose around this issue. It's just one element of the issue but it's a worrying one.
    n preschool, he wore princess dresses—accompanied by a sword. He was now in the later years of elementary school, and had abandoned dresses. He liked Legos and Pokémon, loved opera, and hated sports; his friends were mostly science-nerd girls. He’d never had any trouble calling himself a boy. He was, in short, himself. But Hoffman and her husband—an architect and a children’s-book author who had himself been a fey little boy—felt some pressure to slot their son into the transgender category. Once, when Sam was being harassed by boys at school, the principal told them that Sam needed to choose one gender or the other, because kids could be mean. He could either jettison his pink Crocs and cut his hair or socially transition and come to school as a girl.
    At a conference in Philadelphia devoted to transgender health, I attended a panel of parents discussing their gender-nonconforming kids. A man in the audience said that he had a son “who, at two, was very clear in teaching us how he wanted to dress and how he wanted to be in the world. Now he’s almost three and I’m trying to let this be a wonderful gender-fluid period, but I wonder if I’m holding him back. Like, should I be asking, ‘Do you want to be called he or she?’ ” A woman in the audience confessed to her own desire for closure: “We want to know—are you trans or not?”

    From
    https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/03/18/about-a-boy-2


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 386 ✭✭Spider Web


    Jesus fúcking Christ.

    Why would a parent try to brainwash their child into believing they're the wrong gender? Do you honestly believe that to be more likely than parents simply allowing a child to wear what they want and figure out their identity by themselves in their own time? Ffs. :rolleyes:
    Well there was a case of a family in Sweden and another family in Canada, who each chose to raise their son "genderless". Genderless meant veering him towards girls' clothes - horrible, weird experimentation. So I'd believe it.

    I don't know - if a little boy really wants to wear a skirt... it's very easy to say it'd be no problem but I'm not sure how easy it would be. He is going to be ridiculed - I mean it looks pretty silly, let alone the deeper social connotations.

    I'm not a horrible bigot by the way - there is a middle ground.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,950 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    A hundred years ago kids weren't being encouraged to undergo brutal surgery to fix their mental problems.

    You've got that backwards - kids today do not actually get gender-reassignment surgery, and it's only 75 years ago that the frontal lobotomy was the new cutting edge technique for 'curing' people diagnosed with a wide variety of conditions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,813 ✭✭✭Noveight


    somefeen wrote: »
    You want to criticise and debate peoples personal identities?

    To criticize and debate what motivated them to make choices in regards to their identities, and the results which arise from these choices including the effects they take on their children. Discussing transgenderism or criticizing the choices made by Trans people does not begin and end with personal identity, it can include a whole plethora of causes and results.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    They don't. The parents read ****e on reddit and decide their kid is trans cos the kid might be a bit different or awkward.

    Same way every lad who might be a bit socially awkward is now autistic. Result is the same, pump em full of medication.

    Where do you get this nonsense? Autistic people are not "pumped full of medication".

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    B0jangles wrote: »
    You've got that backwards - kids today do not actually get gender-reassignment surgery, and it's only 75 years ago that the frontal lobotomy was the new cutting edge technique for 'curing' people diagnosed with a wide variety of conditions.


    Are you sure about that?

    GP probed for giving child, 12, gender-change hormones

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-41213534


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 23,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    Are you sure about that?

    GP probed for giving child, 12, gender-change hormones

    http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-41213534

    You understand the difference between gender reassignment surgery and hormones?

    they/them/theirs


    The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all of the people.

    Noam Chomsky



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,564 ✭✭✭Sweetemotion


    Brian? wrote: »
    You understand the difference between gender reassignment surgery and hormones?

    These hormones can cause great damage including sterilisation.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 132 ✭✭Obvious Otter


    Brian? wrote: »
    You understand the difference between gender reassignment surgery and hormones?

    Can't drink until you're 18 but it's perfectly fine to pump a 12 year old full of hormones. Some people are actually cheerleading this sort of carry on.


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