Garda Commissioner Noirin O'Sullivan announces retirement

flutered · 10-09-2017 10:42PM

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

This is as serious as it gets - it is above a GE.

A body has to be formed to do a total revamp of the force - there is 10 to 15 years work in it.

if there is political willingness it can be done away faster, had the politicos info on the cops or has the cops info on the politicos, i would thing the latter, look at the way callinan carried on, like an roman emperor of old

celt262 · 10-09-2017 10:44PM

Carla4garda should be the new commissioner.

Ace2007 · 10-09-2017 10:47PM

Thea Nervous Woodpecker wrote: »

If it's do good I expect to see you posting that you've applied for the next competition and accepted an offer.

What competition are you on about?

I also said it's a reason why those is PS won't leave.

flutered · 10-09-2017 10:50PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

The thing I don't like is that nowadays the job of Garda Commissioners is to be the scapegoat. She never got a chance to actually change the force ethos and implement any changes.

We are doomed to just accepting Garda issues for which the solution is to call on the resignation or subtle forced retirement of the chief.

did she want to, what efforts did she make, not many, quick with the usual i will change things, how many buddys got promotions to super and chief super on the eve of the new appointment laws

Sierra Oscar · 10-09-2017 10:51PM

flutered wrote: »

kathleen o toole rubber stamped her appointment, dont be suprised if she is not a contender this time

I reckon she could be a contender, although why would she leave her position as Chief of Police at Seattle Police Department? It pays significantly more than the position of Garda Commissioner (even though there are 16,000 people in An Garda Síochána compared to 1,300 in Seattle Police Department) and it would require moving back to Ireland on a full time basis.

Kathleen O'Toole is chairing the 'root and branch' review of the Gardaí so that could be enough for her. Interestingly, she was on radio recently and pushed back at the idea of establishing a stand-alone intelligence agency. I suspect the review will instead recommend enhancing the Directorate of Military Intelligence.

Ursus Horribilis · 10-09-2017 10:52PM

MadYaker wrote: »

I'd be surprised if anyone outside of AGS or Ireland will be interested in taking this job. Especially not for 180k a year. It seems a bit of a poisoned chalice. I don't think the commissioner was the problem, or if she was she's just the tip of the iceberg.

The culture of the Gardai needs to be changed from the bottom up. That's easier said than done, when there appears to be a culture of omerta and not stepping out of line in the organisation. There's an arrogance there and a sense of impunity. All you have to do is look at what was done to Maurice McCabe even after he blew the whistle. The consequences for anyone who dares stray from the consensus are dire.

Cee-Jay-Cee · 10-09-2017 11:01PM

Most likely advised by the government to quit, once gone the media and opposition parties will have no one to pester and a little breathing space can be gained by all concerned.

Spanish Eyes · 10-09-2017 11:10PM

Watching her at the Committee in the Dail sucking up to her boss Callinan was just awful, I knew right then what she would become.

But he got away scot free just the same didn't he?

11-09-2017 12:19AM

4ensic15 wrote: »

It is simply not feasible for a team of outsiders to come in and take every senior job over. There is a report in today's paper that two senior officers wouldn't speak directly to O sullivan. This meant she couldn't conduct a management meeting. How would an outsider cope with that nonsense?

Insubordination is grounds for instant dismissal in most organisations.

Are Am Eye wrote: »

Yeah it is feasible. Anyone refusing to communicate in regard to work matters is not doing their job and should be dealt with through internal disciplinary mechanisms. The very feasible new management will be utilising those mechanisms a lot, for all sorts of things.

You got there before me.

Anyone who tolerates that level of insubordination is not capable of doing the job - and I'm usually very pro workers rights - but there's a point where it goes beyond a joke, and insubordination is several steps beyond that point, imo.

kowloon · 11-09-2017 12:38AM

Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »

"An RyanSiochana - the low cost police force".

It's free to ring the police but there are added extras if you want them to do something.

€20 to respond to an incident.
€25 to take a statement.
€100 penalty if you didnt order the cop online and print out your complaint.

The Garda magazine in the back of the squad car next to the life jacket and catalogue of perfume and watches available to buy at the station.
I could go for this.

Muahahaha · 11-09-2017 03:43AM

flutered wrote: »

was she not approached and ran as in fast and quickly

Would like to hear more about this, is it on the public record somewhere? Tbh it wouldnt surprise me if Nuala OLoan ran a mile. She is a reformist and managers like her do not take those positions unless they know they have political back-up. In the case of Northern Ireland she did have that in the form of the Good Friday Agreement and all sides agreed that the RUC needed reform. In the case of AGS lots may say reform is needed but behind the scenes they are doing their level best to prevent it happening.

btw I like others I think the salary of 180k is too low. It should be closer to 250k with performance & target related bonuses to attract the right talent. The problem with that though is then all the Assistant Commisoners in the Park will want more and it is actually that level that needs to be dealt with first on any path to reform in AGS.

uck51js9zml2yt · 11-09-2017 04:16AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

What competition are you on about?

I also said it's a reason why those is PS won't leave.

Plenty of jobs in the public sector at the moment, all advertised.

rangler1 · 11-09-2017 07:43AM

Thea Nervous Woodpecker wrote: »

If it's do good I expect to see you posting that you've applied for the next competition and accepted an offer.

I don't and wouldn't mind it being a handy number if we were getting a service that did justice to the taxes we we have to pay.
People forget that all the money that ends up as tax originates from the private sector and that's a very small pool now.
Every hundred million that's wasted by PS is probably costing every private sector worker €100

tigger123 · 11-09-2017 07:51AM

It will be fascinating to see how this goes; does Noirin's replacement come in and pick up where she left off in the reform programme (at which point the criticism will be that nothing has really changed), or do they start with someone completly new, with their own reform programme (at which point the whole thing is kicked down the road).

Either way, there's no way the Government knew about this. Charlie Flanagan gave an interview in yesterday's Sunday Independent that gave zero indication that he knew this was coming.

Quite embarrassing for the government really; they spent the last few years defending her and then she resigns.

Ace2007 · 11-09-2017 08:04AM

Thea Nervous Woodpecker wrote: »

Plenty of jobs in the public sector at the moment, all advertised.

And what's your point?

I said those in the public sector already won't leave it for the reasons given. I didn't say they were reasons to join.

Private: more money now and more opportunities and less hassle v small pension later in life

Public: less money less opportunities more hassle, constantly striking and complaining, v bigger pension later in life in comparison to private sector.

Beechwoodspark · 11-09-2017 08:28AM

tigger123 wrote: »

It will be fascinating to see how this goes; does Noirin's replacement come in and pick up where she left off in the reform programme (at which point the criticism will be that nothing has really changed), or do they start with someone completly new, with their own reform programme (at which point the whole thing is kicked down the road).

Either way, there's no way the Government knew about this. Charlie Flanagan gave an interview in yesterday's Sunday Independent that gave zero indication that he knew this was coming.

Quite embarrassing for the government really; they spent the last few years defending her and then she resigns.

CF just said on RTÉ radio that he knew her resignation was a possibility but he kept it confidential. Mary Lou is on now and she says she suspects there are further revelations to come out and this story isn't over with the resignation of the commissioner

McMurphy · 11-09-2017 08:33AM

John Downing in this morning's Indo.

But it also comes at a political price because Fine Gael, traditionally the party of law and order, has been mired in problems about policing for the past four years, and has been damaged by the loss a number of key personnel.

The O’Sullivan resignation means the loss of a second consecutive Garda Commissioner, following the enforced early retirement of Martin Callinan in March 2014.

The most senior official in the Justice Department, secretary general Brian Purcell, stood down weeks after Commissioner Callinan stood down. The Justice Minister and Fine Gael TD, Alan Shatter, was then forced to resign in May 2014

All of the Government had invested a great deal of their political credibility in Nn O'Sullivan continuing as Garda Commissioner. This was despite the large volume of controversy which engulfed her, and loud calls across all opposition parties for her to be removed from office.

Justice Minister, Charlie Flanagan, has said steps will be taken to appoint a successor as quickly as is possible. But her departure now means he must face the brunt of fallout from controversies on falsified garda breath tests, wrongful motoring convictions, financial irregularities at the Garda Training College, and the ill treatment of garda whistleblowers.

Ms O’Sullivan’s snap resignation does not banish any of those critical policing problems.

This ain't over by a long shot.

snowflaker · 11-09-2017 08:38AM

FG being lectured on Law and Order by SF must be galling for them!
At least the PC knew when to go...
How long is gurry leader now?

Ace2007 · 11-09-2017 08:39AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

CF just said on RTÉ radio that he knew her resignation was a possibility but he kept it confidential. Mary Lou is on now and she says she suspects there are further revelations to come out and this story isn't over with the resignation of the commissioner

And yet Mary Lou won't reveal these "revelations" now because there is no political gain to as the commissioner is now gone, watch this die down for a while and then a year or two down the line something will come out.

As I said yesterday it's just a political football - antu government parties don't want the issue solved - they just want to use it to attack the government in power.

If an outside person is appointed the one good thing would be that they couldn't be forced out by historic issues like the ones that basically have led to this commissioner retiring.

tigger123 · 11-09-2017 08:40AM

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

CF just said on RTÉ radio that he knew her resignation was a possibility but he kept it confidential. Mary Lou is on now and she says she suspects there are further revelations to come out and this story isn't over with the resignation of the commissioner

I heard that too, I just don't buy it though. The resignation makes FG look bad, and like they don't have any control over a situation that the public is seriously p*ssed off about. The shock resignation is costing them political capital. If they did know I imagine they would have leaked it already and get ahead of the story.

It's also interesting in terms of Friday's headline in the Irish Times, that Minister's are worried that there are far more scandals due to surface, ie, that this isnt the end of it all.

In then the end though, the Government couldn't make her stay. She has her time done and wants to move on.

McMurphy · 11-09-2017 09:01AM

snowflaker wrote: »

FG being lectured on Law and Order by SF must be galling for them!
At least the PC knew when to go...
How long is gurry leader now?

Whataboutery up there.

Maybe if Noirin and the guards spent more time actually policing, you know - actually fighting crime instead of smearing whistleblowers, falsifying breath tests, becoming embroiled in financial irregularities down in Templemore, acting as private security guards for DOB, and revenue collector for the same gov't, the shinners wouldn't have anything to throw at FG?

Abu94 · 11-09-2017 09:05AM

Please don't dare to insult the God Commander OSulivahn or you will face the ban!

Ace2007 · 11-09-2017 09:37AM

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Whataboutery up there.

Maybe if Noirin and the guards spent more time actually policing, you know - actually fighting crime instead of falsifying breath tests, becoming embroiled in financial irregularities down in Templemore, acting as private security guards for DOB, and revenue collector for the same gov't, the shinners wouldn't have anything to throw at FG?

How could she spend timing policing when she's dragged up on every enquiry?

The reports into Tenplemore date back to 2008 - nearly 10 years ago - long before she was commissioner - but sure lets drag it up now and use as ammunition.

Breath tests - again this is over an extended period - majority of which she wasn't comminssioner.

Why not look at something that went wrong solely when she was commissioner. If the next commissioner is from within - are you going to throw all this crap at him/her as well and expect them to fix it overnight?

Guards are revenue collectors now? Never seen that before - so send on some links for that role.

yourdeadwright · 11-09-2017 10:02AM

This will make zero difference to us as a state, The real problem lies with the justice system in Ireland, until that is changed we could have Commissioner Gordan and thing s will remain the same.
The Garda are the easy target , the public always going on about them not protecting us, but then you see lads weekly with 40 plus charges walking free out of court, You have to acknowledge its the Garda that have caught them the 40 plus times but its the justice system and judges that allow them to walk free, Criminals have nothing to fear when they are caught ,

tayto lover · 11-09-2017 10:06AM

Nothing will change until the Government are no longer permitted to appoint -

1. The high ranking Garda Commissioners.
2. The head of the Army.
3. The Judges.

The sheep dog is always trained by the shepherd and will do his bidding.

Ace2007 · 11-09-2017 10:07AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Nothing will change until the Government are no longer permitted to appoint -

1. The high ranking Garda Commissioners.
2. The head of the Army.
3. The Judges.

The sheep dog is always trained by the shepherd and will do his bidding.

So who do you want to be able to appoint these positions?

tayto lover · 11-09-2017 10:12AM

Ace2007 wrote: »

So who do you want to be able to appoint these positions?

An independent Board made up from the business community and other Police organisations from around the world.

Sierra Oscar · 11-09-2017 10:21AM

tayto lover wrote: »

Nothing will change until the Government are no longer permitted to appoint -

1. The high ranking Garda Commissioners.
2. The head of the Army.
3. The Judges.

The sheep dog is always trained by the shepherd and will do his bidding.

Erm, you do realise that the Government no longer has a role in appointing senior Gardaí? The independent Policing Authority has sole responsibility for making these appointments.

You also don't seem to be aware that Nóirín O'Sullivan was appointed following an independent recruitment process conducted by the Public Appointments Service.

tayto lover wrote: »

An independent Board made up from the business community and other Police organisations from around the world.

That is exactly what happened for Nóirín's appointment.

Maidhci · 11-09-2017 10:27AM

It seems to me that Nóirín O'Sullivan, in her resignation statement, was looking for an apology for being asked to publicly account for the dysfunctionality, corrupt culture and actions etc. etc. that exist and has existed in AGS for several years and which she, as Commissioner and Assistant Commissioner, promoted, contributed to and presided over for several years. That sums up the attitude of AGS senior management. I do not think we are going to see any change to that if an internal appointment is made.

Ineedaname · 11-09-2017 10:39AM

I dunno what Regina Doherty is smoking but I want some.

https://twitter.com/ReginaDo/status/906891385248382976

Garda Commissioner Noirin O'Sullivan announces retirement

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