Jan and Klodi's Party Bus - part II off topic discussion

magicbastarder · 10-09-2017 10:35PM

cheers, i've certainly heard of clayton hotels, didn't know who the parent was.

eeeee · 10-09-2017 10:45PM

How the fcuk is Hook still in a job? Jesus fcuking 'christ', what he said was condoning violence against women. I can't even get my head around the fact that he is allowed a national platform to preach rank, outright violence against women. It saddens me that in our current society, this isn't serious enough for someone to lose their job. That commercial sponsorship is a bigger threat to their position than blaming victims of rape for their own assault.

I actually consider Hook's comments a form of violence. I can almost hear certain knickers twisting at that idea.

And people wonder why we need feminism :rolleyes:

ThisRegard wrote: »

Hey excuse for not doing so is pretty poor, what did she think he was going to do to her?

She complains that in her opinion Newstalk don't care about such complaints but she never followed hers up to find out.

Anyway the whole thing is a mess. I've often said on the radio thread that I believe Hook purposely winds people up with his opening monologue, and without having heard the piece, he may have pushed that too far this time. There'll be a concerted effort from everywhere now to have him fired.

That, right there is victim blaming. Classic, basic, common or garden victim blaming. I suggest you acquaint yourself with the concept.

And, though it pains me to point it out,, it really does, the fact that it is necessary worries and shocks me to my core, but do you really have to wonder why someone who has been subject to the comments she was by Hook wouldn't want to meet him on his territory at the scene of the incidents then I just give the fcuk up on humanity, I really do.

Why oh why oh why is it so hard for some people to fundamentally and often violently disrespect and demean half the population?

rubadub · 10-09-2017 10:50PM

Seems they were the main sponsors

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/clayton-hotels-threatens-to-pull-sponsorship-from-newstalk-over-george-hook-rape-comments-36117390.html

I have not heard the broadcast in question. Much as I despise the man I find this very hard to believe.

Rape victim, Fiona Doyle, told Independent.ie on Friday that Mr Hook's comments were "outrageous" and "offensive".

"What George said is that a man can't help himself if he comes across a drunk woman. It takes the responsibility off men. Men should know not to touch a woman."

magicbastarder · 10-09-2017 11:09PM

nee wrote: »

I can't even get my head around the fact that he is allowed a national platform to preach rank, outright violence against women.

you would expect - hope? - that someone paid to present a high profile show on a current affairs station who supposedly pride themselves on their output, would be intelligent and fairly tuned in. i genuinely struggle to understand how he is given a platform. for god's sake, one of the few times i listened to his show, it was startling how he was treating a female presenter compared to a male presenter - to the point where *his own daughter* texted in complaining about the way he was behaving.

they should just play the sound of a bellowing t-rex instead of him.

Fighting Tao · 11-09-2017 06:37AM

Lusk_Doyle wrote: »

One of the big international hotel groups going I think.

They are international (U.K. too) these days but they are an Irish company. Their main brands are Maldron and Clayton but they also own others such as The Ballsbridge, The Gibson and the Belevedere.

Chuchote · 11-09-2017 09:14AM

It's interesting as a reflection on the 'othering' of cyclists how violent the reaction has been (from decent people) against Hook's rape comments, compared to the reaction to many of his comments on cyclists.

brocbrocach · 11-09-2017 09:16AM

nee wrote: »

And, though it pains me to point it out,, it really does, the fact that it is necessary worries and shocks me to my core, but do you really have to wonder why someone who has been subject to the comments she was by Hook wouldn't want to meet him on his territory at the scene of the incidents then I just give the fcuk up on humanity, I really do.

Well if she'd steeled herself against the possibility of meeting the doddery old fool in the corridor and made her complaint Hook's pulpit may well have been taken away from him before he had a chance to make his comments.
That would've been a good social influence.

ThisRegard · 11-09-2017 09:23AM

nee wrote: »

How the fcuk is Hook still in a job? Jesus fcuking 'christ', what he said was condoning violence against women

{rant removed}

So why was my post deleted? Would it have been removed as quick has it been in response to a regular user?

There was nothing offensive or abusive, no moderator note left behind, so what was the issue?

If you familiarise yourself with any of recent posts, most noticeably in the Radio forum, you will have seen that I've been calling out and reporting blatant sexism and misogyny that's widespread across that forum, so don't think your in a position to call me out for something I am not. You can make your claims all you want, and I'm entitled to call your claims and understanding as to who I am for that they are.

seamus · 11-09-2017 09:29AM

brocbrocach wrote: »

Well if she'd steeled herself against the possibility of meeting the doddery old fool in the corridor and made her complaint Hook's pulpit may well have been taken away from him before he had a chance to make his comments.

Or, she could have been cornered in a meeting room with Hook, two solicitors and a Newstalk exec threatening her with all sorts of civil actions and pushing pieces of paper at her to sign.

It's pretty clear here that the fault for not following through lies with Newstalk. Rather than make any reasonable effort to find out what happened, they just assumed the issue was dropped when she refused to come to their offices. She shouldn't have to "steel" herself for a possible confrontation, she's the victim!

ThisRegard · 11-09-2017 09:40AM

seamus wrote: »

It's pretty clear here that the fault for not following through lies with Newstalk. Rather than make any reasonable effort to find out what happened, they just assumed the issue was dropped when she refused to come to their offices. She shouldn't have to "steel" herself for a possible confrontation, she's the victim!

I've been through this process twice personally with people, one with regards to comments such as Hook made, the other more general bullying.

Each time the complaint was taking very seriously. One instant the person was removed from the job, the other time the person eventually left of their own volition. Both times it turned out that they had done this before to other people.

One of the complainants took a bit of encouragement to come forward as the person in question was much more senior to them. Both victims met the people in question regularly in a daily basis.

The lady who mentioned on twitter her 2 inappropriate confrontations had the opportunity to pull him up and possibly have him watch his words from that point on. She chose not to in case she might meet him, and didn't return to the issue until after Fridays incident.

There is no reason to believe that she would have been silenced or have her complaints not taken as seriously as many other companies around the country would have. Without her input it was a matter of your word against mine, and the matter would not have gotten very far.

eeeee · 11-09-2017 09:50AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

I've been through this process twice personally with people, one with regards to comments such as Hook made, the other more general bullying.

Each time the complaint was taking very seriously. One instant the person was removed from the job, the other time the person eventually left of their own volition. Both times it turned out that they had done this before to other people.

One of the complainants took a bit of encouragement to come forward as the person in question was much more senior to them. Both victims met the people in question regularly in a daily basis.

The lady who mentioned on twitter her 2 inappropriate confrontations had the opportunity to pull him up and possibly have him watch his words from that point on. She chose not to in case she might meet him, and didn't return to the issue until after Fridays incident.

There is no reason to believe that she would have been silenced or have her complaints not taken as seriously as many other companies around the country would have.

So your blaming the victim for not coming forward and Hook remaining in his position on the back of her lack of complaint? Seriously?
You can't see, at all how it would be difficult for her to stand up to him? For a myriad of reasons?
You can't see how you're putting all the responsibility on the victim to sort out the perpetrators behaviour? And correct the abuse towards her?
Fcukin hell.
I actually give up.

ThisRegard · 11-09-2017 10:18AM

Look, you have your interpretation of what I post, and I can tell you how wrong your interpretation is. I feel you're looking to find in my posts what your view is from the outset and there's no changing how entrenched you are. All I can do as this point it tell you that you are wrong.

rollingscone · 11-09-2017 10:24AM

http://reductress.com/post/has-feminism-gone-too-far-now-that-it-is-specifically-critiquing-me/

CramCycle · 11-09-2017 10:57AM

ThisRegard wrote: »

I've been through this process twice personally with people, one with regards to comments such as Hook made, the other more general bullying.

I have been through it once. Based on sexism and general bullying.

Each time the complaint was taking very seriously. One instant the person was removed from the job, the other time the person eventually left of their own volition. Both times it turned out that they had done this before to other people.

One of the largest companies in their sector. The complaint was taken seriously in that they seriously just wanted it to go away. They called the complainant to a meeting with the accused, and the head of legal (as a supportive friend). They gave her 24 hours to find someone to come in with her, and said they had to be internal. They asked her to take someone into a meeting with two of the highest ranking staff in the building to stand on her side with little or no warning and expect them to support them in something they probably knew little about.

One of the complainants took a bit of encouragement to come forward as the person in question was much more senior to them. Both victims met the people in question regularly in a daily basis.

This person already had 34 complaints but no one who was comfortable enough they would still have a job to push it.

The person on twitter has 2 inappropriate comments made to her. She had the opportunity to pull him up and possibly have him watch his words from that point on. She chose not to in case she might meet him, and didn't go public until after Friday.

Most likely because it was now public, there would be sense of confidence that there would be no fall back on her, whereas previously, she possibly (and justifiably) feared there might be.

If people find that victim blaming because I have an issue with the latter, I despair.

Despair away, it is victim blaming. if you cannot understand why a victim of certain crimes or behaviour are uncomfortable coming forward, then I suggest you come at it from a different perspective or maybe think of a different behaviour. Imagine it was a gun crime outside your door and the perpetrator knows if there was a witness, it would have to be you, can you understand why someone might not come forward. Maybe a doctor acted inappropriately but as far as you know, the waiting lists for your illness are really long if you go elsewhere or the reputation of others in the field leave you feeling that despite the behaviour, your best hope for a cure is sticking with that doctor. Maybe you are in a field where the circle of people involved is very small and there would be a fear that a complaint would be met with disbelief and shunning.

tomasrojo · 11-09-2017 11:07AM

Jesus Christ.
https://twitter.com/colmomongain/status/906532377568137216/photo/1

brocbrocach · 11-09-2017 11:33AM

CramCycle wrote: »

Despair away, it is victim blaming. if you cannot understand why a victim of certain crimes or behaviour are uncomfortable coming forward, then I suggest you come at it from a different perspective or maybe think of a different behaviour. Imagine it was a gun crime outside your door and the perpetrator knows if there was a witness, it would have to be you, can you understand why someone might not come forward. Maybe a doctor acted inappropriately but as far as you know, the waiting lists for your illness are really long if you go elsewhere or the reputation of others in the field leave you feeling that despite the behaviour, your best hope for a cure is sticking with that doctor. Maybe you are in a field where the circle of people involved is very small and there would be a fear that a complaint would be met with disbelief and shunning.

Victim blaming is very emotive to throw around as a one line answer.
In the ideal world some great overarching authority comes in and spirits away the offender but unfortunately the reality is it often takes a personal sacrifice to put a stop to something. Whether it's being the person who alerts the Guards to the local drug dealer or being the one who spoke out when the Jews and the Gypsies were taken away, being part of society entails responsibility.
To clarify, I'm talking about the woman who said Hook acted inappropriately towards her, not Hooks comments nor the case that they related to.

tomasrojo · 11-09-2017 12:33PM

I don't like confrontation. I don't know whether I've been in a situation analogous to that in which Rosemary MacCabe found herself, but I could imagine not pursuing a complaint once it becomes clear that management wasn't talking it seriously, especially when it was just words, albeit breathtakingly rude and creepy words.

I'm glad that she's having an opportunity to kick him while he's down.
(Assuming he said those things, and I'm very much assuming he said them.)

manafana · 11-09-2017 01:07PM

Chuchote wrote: »

Lots of outrage about poor George Hook. When it was just people on bikes he targeted, that was ok.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/george-hook-needs-to-get-off-his-dinosaur-backside-rape-victim-criticises-broadcaster-for-outrageous-and-offensive-remarks-about-rape-36113405.html

100% he has been insulting various groups to simliar level often cyclists or lesser road users, often particular sections of female society, but now with similarly insulting comments he gets the long over due reaction. (Rape is kind of tabo at moment compared to other subjects, you see this on comedy circuit, most jokes are laughed at but rape ones less so)

brocbrocach · 11-09-2017 01:14PM

manafana wrote: »

100% he has been insulting various groups to simliar level often cyclists or lesser road users, often particular sections of female society, but now with similarly insulting comments he gets the long over due reaction. (Rape is kind of tabo at moment compared to other subjects, you see this on comedy circuit, most jokes are laughed at but rape ones less so)

You could say he 'did a Myers' on it.

LollipopJimmy · 11-09-2017 02:22PM

Apparently a prerecorded apology was played at the start of his show. Many years ago when I worked mostly on the road I listened to Newstalk, Moncrief, Hook and Off The Ball and I enjoyed it, Hook was always a pretentious arse but in recent years he has gotten so much worse. His comments last week and what is coming out now though is just outrageous.
I was never bothered by the anti-cyclist stuff and I never am by the stuff in the media, I just get on my bike an pedal, but this man needs to have his platform removed immediately

magicbastarder · 12-09-2017 09:03AM

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-why-i-will-not-appear-on-newstalk-again-1.3216957

tomasrojo · 12-09-2017 10:21AM

Newstalk has effectively quarantined off all the major broadcasters I can't listen to: Hook, Williams, Kenny. It's the equivalent of our Helmet Mega-thread.

(Apart from Seán Moncrieff, who I do listen to on occasion.)

CramCycle · 12-09-2017 10:57AM

Hook - could tolerate as a rugby pundit as he was comical for a person so involved to know so little, and I would not be very well read on the subject.
Williams - trailer trash opinion column writer who was let indulge his own belief that he was somehow as important as the story. One of the first signs in Ireland that journalism in Ireland was taking a nose dive was when papers and television shows referred to him sincerely as a journalist.
Kenny - I really liked his political shows when i was younger and he is actually great to watch live, really well read on any subject on those shows. Alas mid morning lite radio does not suit him and may damage his ability to get another decent job ever again. I imagine he is in Newstalk until retirement now.

SeMoncrieff - I quite enjoy, I don't always like his show or the topic but considering the range of people and he gives them all a fair turn, it's quite enjoyable. Movies and booze is always interesting as well.

tomasrojo · 12-09-2017 11:32AM

I think I just never catch Kenny on a good day. His forays into climate-science FUD are a deal-breaker for me too, though they're probably a small part of his output.

magicbastarder · 12-09-2017 04:15PM

http://www.thejournal.ie/newstalk-staff-letter-george-hook-3593884-Sep2017/?utm_source=facebook_short

i wonder why he hasn't chosen to fall on his sword; though he's a famously bad (and self confessedly so - to the point of being unethical) businessman. maybe he hasn't managed his money well.

tomasrojo · 12-09-2017 04:21PM

Not a great sign when your colleagues write a letter like that -- either for your future or how you've been in the past. None of the usual bits referencing with regret the positive qualities of the transgressor.

ednwireland · 12-09-2017 06:02PM

i dont get the listener numbers for hook i turned off newstalk when he went to teatime and turned off the rugby when he was analysing, so how he has a job at all is beyond me

LollipopJimmy · 12-09-2017 06:04PM

magicbastarder wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/newstalk-staff-letter-george-hook-3593884-Sep2017/?utm_source=facebook_short

i wonder why he hasn't chosen to fall on his sword; though he's a famously bad (and self confessedly so - to the point of being unethical) businessman. maybe he hasn't managed his money well.

I wouldn't day he has a massive amount tucked away. He's probably on about 70k now and was broke 15/20 years ago so not a lot of time to build a nest egg.

ford2600 · 12-09-2017 06:15PM

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I wouldn't day he has a massive amount tucked away. He's probably on about 70k now and was broke 15/20 years ago so not a lot of time to build a nest egg.

Documents recently filed by George Hook’s firm, Foxrock Communications Ltd for the voluntary wind-up of his firm show that the company had a bank balance of €793,274 on Oct 31 last

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/duffy-and-hook-notch-up-hefty-balances-256190.html

From 2014

LollipopJimmy · 12-09-2017 06:43PM

ford2600 wrote: »

Documents recently filed by George Hook’s firm, Foxrock Communications Ltd for the voluntary wind-up of his firm show that the company had a bank balance of €793,274 on Oct 31 last

http://www.irishexaminer.com/business/duffy-and-hook-notch-up-hefty-balances-256190.html

From 2014

Didn't expect that at all. He obviously got better financial advise in later years

Jan and Klodi's Party Bus - part II **off topic discussion**

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Jan and Klodi's Party Bus - part II off topic discussion