"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

Brock Turnpike · 28-08-2017 10:30PM

Penn wrote: »

Not that it matters as such, just that it's poor writing that took me out of the moment. Arya shows up and is barred at the gates after saying she's a Stark, but Sam shows up, says he's a friend of Jon and is suddenly allowed to just wander up to Bran's bedroom.

Just thinking out loud, but I think it could have been better that Sam introduces himself to a guard at the gate, the guard says Bran is waiting to speak with him, then it gives Sam a reason to ask how Bran knew he was coming, leading to the Three Eyed Raven conversation.

It would mean Bran foresaw that Sam was coming and there was a reason, but he couldn't see it yet. Then when Sam reveals Rhaegar and Lyanna got married, Bran knows to look for that vision.

If it's a choice between seeing Sam being given access to Winterfell, or seeing a WW Dragon take down the wall, I know which way I'm leaning!

brevity · 28-08-2017 10:32PM

Zaph · 28-08-2017 10:37PM

I'm sorry, but that was absolutely fcuking ridiculous. There's no way that dragon was aerodynamically sound and able to make those turns with all those holes in its wings! :pac:

Bacchus · 28-08-2017 10:39PM

False Prophet wrote: »

no, they were never under seige, think about it what army is left to place them under seige?

But wasn't the trap set that the food stores were cleared out so they wouldn't survive a seige. Pretty sure that was specifically mentioned at one point. Also the Greyjoy army was there to lay seige and destroyed the Unsullied fleet.

A Primal Nut · 28-08-2017 10:41PM

Bacchus wrote: »

But wasn't the trap set that the food stores were cleared out so they wouldn't survive a seige. Pretty sure that was specifically mentioned at one point. Also the Greyjoy army was there to lay seige and destroyed the Unsullied fleet.

As far as I remember the Lannisters took everything from Casterly Rock so there would basically be nothing left for the invading armies to find. But I don't think the Lannisters went back there. Although it does make you wonder where the Unsullied have been all this time, maybe just gaurding Casterly Rock even though it's not worth much?

False Prophet · 28-08-2017 10:46PM

Bacchus wrote: »

But wasn't the trap set that the food stores were cleared out so they wouldn't survive a seige. Pretty sure that was specifically mentioned at one point. Also the Greyjoy army was there to lay seige and destroyed the Unsullied fleet.

No, greyjoy is more a navel fleet then ground army and wouldn't have enough men for a land and sea siege. Lanchesters took the food stores so unsullied would have to leave the place as nothing worth holding + have to steal food from locals on the way back or at least be put out with a long march back as no ships anymore.

alchemist33 · 28-08-2017 10:47PM

Degag wrote: »

It was silly. They had a believable story in that the dead could pass the wall because the Night King touched Bran but didn't use it

Frankly I would have found the opposite. Being able to get through the wall because of touching Bran would have been far more unbelievable - an obstacle as unbreachable as the wall proving useless because of one of Bran's out of body experiences. Whereas getting a wight to convince Cersei made more sense to me (except for the fact it's Cersei, who's so driven by hate that she's lost her sense)

johnny_ultimate · 28-08-2017 10:48PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

what the heck happened with the unsullied siege, with Jaime and Bronn at the forefront? Just glossed over like it was irrelevant.

There was no Unsullied siege. They arrived at King's Landing to protect / defend / avenge Daenerys & co in case anything went awry. The Lannisters were also preparing for such an eventuality.

False Prophet · 28-08-2017 10:50PM

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

That episode was probably the best in the entire season in terms of character development. However, it had some seriously gaping flaws - what the heck happened with the unsullied siege, with Jaime and Bronn at the forefront? Just glossed over like it was irrelevant.

What siege??

It was just a show of force in case the talks was a trap or ambush

Venom · 28-08-2017 10:54PM

Zaph wrote: »

I'm sorry, but that was absolutely fcuking ridiculous. There's no way that dragon was aerodynamically sound and able to make those turns with all those holes in its wings! :pac:

Cina · 28-08-2017 11:02PM

"I know everything, Sam"
"So you know Rhaeger and Lysa were married?"
"Err... gimme a sec.. just... need to.."
*flashback with the weird eye thing*
".. yep, knew that too, I did, shut up Sam!"

False Prophet · 28-08-2017 11:04PM

Bambi wrote: »

That's a load of tenuous bollocks though

"tell you what Popeye, whatever they propose you throw a strop and say you're going to f**k off back to the Iron Islands with your Navy but secretly you're going to head off to Essos"

That's some Sun Tzu level strategy there alright.

Not really.she knew they wanted a truce. So she schemed ahead. why else would he be there and not already gone getting the army from essos?

No matter what they wanted it was going to be to Cersai advantage to think that "Popeye" deserted her side

timthumbni · 28-08-2017 11:20PM

I love got. But I hope you realise it's just Dallas with medieval characters and a few dragons thrown in.

And I'm not saying that in a bad way btw.

Epic episode. I loved it...

SimonTemplar · 28-08-2017 11:24PM

Penn wrote: »

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

What does this matter? It's easy to make a leap of faith that they explained who they were and were given access.

Not that it matters as such, just that it's poor writing that took me out of the moment. Arya shows up and is barred at the gates after saying she's a Stark, but Sam shows up, says he's a friend of Jon and is suddenly allowed to just wander up to Bran's bedroom.

Just thinking out loud, but I think it could have been better that Sam introduces himself to a guard at the gate, the guard says Bran is waiting to speak with him, then it gives Sam a reason to ask how Bran knew he was coming, leading to the Three Eyed Raven conversation.

It would mean Bran foresaw that Sam was coming and there was a reason, but he couldn't see it yet. Then when Sam reveals Rhaegar and Lyanna got married, Bran knows to look for that vision.

For all we know, Sam was probably negotiating his way around Winterfell for a whole day but that would have been boring/unnecessary for the viewer to see, even in a full 10 episode season.

We saw Arya's arrival because her entrance to Winterfell was far more significant.

Venom · 28-08-2017 11:26PM

False Prophet wrote: »

Not really.she knew they wanted a truce. So she schemed ahead. why else would he be there and not already gone getting the army from essos?

No matter what they wanted it was going to be to Cersai advantage to think that "Popeye" deserted her side

But without the zombie it would seem really off from him to just freak out and scutter off.

If Cersi's plan all along was to pick up the Golden Legion Merc's, it would of made much more sense to have the ships already in route to pick them up, thus avoiding running into some Dragons along the way with a bonus option of maybe even having the new army there before the talks to take out her enemies!

Venom · 28-08-2017 11:28PM

timthumbni wrote: »

I love got. But I hope you realise it's just Dallas with medieval characters and a few dragons thrown in.

Ya heard it here first folks, final scene of the next season is Ned Stark waking up to go boar hunting with King Robert and it all being a dream!

Drumpot · 28-08-2017 11:28PM

Should bran not know that the NK has a dragon who has Destroyed the wall in seconds? If so, I presume he would be telling everybody fairly lively!

Degag · 28-08-2017 11:36PM

alchemist33 wrote: »

Frankly I would have found the opposite. Being able to get through the wall because of touching Bran would have been far more unbelievable - an obstacle as unbreachable as the wall proving useless because of one of Bran's out of body experiences. Whereas getting a wight to convince Cersei made more sense to me (except for the fact it's Cersei, who's so driven by hate that she's lost her sense)

If it were easy to get a wight i would agree with you however they (seven of them with a few extras) decided to walk north of the wall to capture one of them knowing that they'd meet 100,000 dead men and the White Walkers. It was pure suicide.

False Prophet · 28-08-2017 11:41PM

Venom wrote: »

But without the zombie it would seem really off from him to just freak out and scutter off.

If Cersi's plan all along was to pick up the Golden Legion Merc's, it would of made much more sense to have the ships already in route to pick them up, thus avoiding running into some Dragons along the way with a bonus option of maybe even having the new army there before the talks to take out her enemies!

he could use the dragons and scutter off or if no dragons the unsullied and horsesboyos. its not rocket science to find a reason and he is will able to play act.

If he wasnt there then they would be wondering where he was and would "investigate" or show concern to what he is up to instead

rtron · 28-08-2017 11:47PM

Unshelved wrote: »

If the Wights can't swim then how the hell did they get the chains on the dragon last week?

I fill that gap in by imagining there are hooks at the ends of the chains and they fished him out.

expectationlost · 28-08-2017 11:52PM

does george rr martin have something to tell us about him and his aunt?

A Primal Nut · 28-08-2017 11:54PM

I think I'll have to read the books so I can read the next one when it's released and find out how the Night King really got a dragon. I'm pretty sure the story will be different.

A Primal Nut · 28-08-2017 11:57PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Should bran not know that the NK has a dragon who has Destroyed the wall in seconds? If so, I presume he would be telling everybody fairly lively!

Yeah, he'll tell Jon about his parentage and about the NK/Dragon/Wall at the same time. Jon won't have time to dwell on the whole "heir to the Iron Throne" thing.

MisterAnarchy · 29-08-2017 12:07AM

Drumpot wrote: »

Should bran not know that the NK has a dragon who has Destroyed the wall in seconds? If so, I presume he would be telling everybody fairly lively!

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Pugzilla · 29-08-2017 12:12AM

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .

Not to mind the fact the Night King is concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

The Wall was partly created with magic by the Children of the Forest.
Dragons are magic as well.

Remember the Warlock in Qarth who wanted to imprison Daenarys and the three dragons in the House of the Undying.

Cantona's Collars · 29-08-2017 12:15AM

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

In fairness a wight with bits chopped off can function pretty OK.One bit of the attack on the wall also showed a hole near the bottom of the wall,I was thinking the same as you about why he was attacking the top third until I saw that hole plus there were tunnels etc which weakened the whole structure.

Turtwig · 29-08-2017 12:16AM

The twin towers collapsed even though the planes struck the upper floors. The load for the floors below was no longer evenly distributed so the buildings collapsed downwards. Same for the wall.

Presumably the blue flame had magical properties to penetrate the ice and magic holding the wall.

Drumpot · 29-08-2017 12:16AM

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

That scene of the dragon destroying the wall was fairly ridiculous.
This is a wall that's supposed to be 90m wide on average ,that's just under the length of a soccer pitch .
Yet Viserion is able to burn right through it with his breath ,yes his beam comes right out the other side of the wall .
So his breath has to be about 130m long ,you'd need some flame thrower .
Funny how last week his chest exploded with flames when it was punctured by the Night Kings Spear but then this week his flames are working just fine with that big hole in his chest and he can fly too with holes in his wings.

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Maybe the ice king had the wall rigged for a controlled collapse, like 9/11.

challengemaster · 29-08-2017 12:17AM

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

The Night King is also concentrating the beam on the upper quarter of the wall ,why would the whole wall collapse ,when only the upper quarter is destroyed ??

Maybe the writers are trying to push 9/11 conspiracy theories? :pac:

MisterAnarchy · 29-08-2017 12:26AM

Turtwig wrote: »

The twin towers collapsed even though the planes struck the upper floors. The load for the floors below was no longer evenly distributed so the buildings collapsed downwards. Same for the wall.

Presumably the blue flame had magical properties to penetrate the ice and magic holding the wall.

Well I suppose a blue flame is the hottest you can get , as a flame grows hotter, its colour changes from red, to orange, to yellow, to the bluish-white shade that is seen taking down The Wall.
How can Viserion breath fire hotter than a living dragon.
Its possible that the Night King has imbued some magic into his flame.

If Viserion were to go head-to-head with Drogon or Rhaegal, Viserion would likely come out on top with his hotter flame and longer breath but it is said that fire cannot kill a dragon, but dragons have never encountered fire like this.

"Non book readers" - Season 7 Episode 7 "The Dragon and the Wolf"

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