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General Philip Sheridan

  • 22-08-2017 9:26pm
    #1
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭


    Statue of this fella in Killenkere just outside of Virgina Co. Cavan, he was a Union General in the Civil War, his troops murdered thousands in including women and children and is associated in being the first American General to a adopt a scorched earth policy and burning confederate villages and towns.

    Should this fella's statue be left standing, or is it different because he killed people for the greater good.

    He also was one of the Buffalo soldiers who killed thousand of native Indians and also the American Military named a tank after him


Comments

  • #2
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    Leave Statues alone.


  • #3
    nullzero
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,759 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    °°°°°


    Cavan b@stard

    Glazers Out!



  • #4
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    "The only good Indian is dead Indian"


  • #5
    Nettle Soup
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,312 ✭✭✭Nettle Soup


    The_Valeyard wrote: »
    Leave Statues alone.

    Only knock the "moving" statues - they freak the shít out of me!


  • #6
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    They should take down the statues in Mellery and Knock, seeing as some of the followers of said statues abused children down through the years.

    All statues should be banned


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  • #7
    Cee-Jay-Cee
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,235 ✭✭✭✭Cee-Jay-Cee


    How did he get to the US as the mayne Kyaaaavan bastards wouldn't spend Christmas!


  • #8
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    Maybe we should start a Good Statue / Bad Statue thread

    Nominations please


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Statue of this fella in Killenkere just outside of Virgina Co. Cavan, he was a Union General in the Civil War, his troops murdered thousands in including women and children and is associated in being the first American General to a adopt a scorched earth policy and burning confederate villages and towns.

    Should this fella's statue be left standing, or is it different because he killed people for the greater good.

    He also was one of the Buffalo soldiers who killed thousand of native Indians and also the American Military named a tank after him

    He was ordered by Grant to use the scorched earth policy.

    If Killenkere contained a Native American population I can see why they might object to his statue and it would be legitimate. Is it really an issue?


  • #10
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    he killed people for the greater good.

    You could make that case for the Civil War.
    But-
    He killed or commanded troops who killed a great many Native Americans in the Indian Wars. Very ruthless and bloodthirsty.


  • #11
    Royal Legend
    Registered Users Posts: 2,656 ✭✭✭Royal Legend


    Deleted User wrote: »
    He was ordered by Grant to use the scorched earth policy.

    If Killenkere contained a Native American population I can see why they might object to his statue and it would be legitimate. Is it really an issue?

    So in your theory they should leave the statue of the Confederate general alone as there are not enough African Americans in the Galway population ;)

    p.s. not saying you agree with the Galway statue, but you can see the irony

    Ever since Trump got in the PC Brigade have been having a field day.


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  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Maybe we should start a Good Statue / Bad Statue thread

    Nominations please

    Joe Dolan staure : bad

    Phil Lynott statue : good


  • #13
    Gatling
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Build it and build it big
    360_F_102352090_ie3kLjDIvgrT1sxVDknWCUh8PxgMYzM7.jpg




  • #14
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    In fairness, it was a fairly crap tank.


  • #15
    Your Face
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,275 ✭✭✭Your Face


    There's a lot of Helen Lovejoy threads this week.


  • #16
    branie2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,308 ✭✭✭✭branie2


    Your Face wrote: »
    There's a lot of Helen Lovejoy threads this week.

    Oh, will someone please think of the children!


  • #17
    Chester Copperpot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Chester Copperpot


    Is it not just a plaque that is on his birthplace. Is a little different to a statue as is an information point and not a celebration.

    As far as I can remember there were native Americans present to provide a counterbalance to any glorification of the man during the unveiling of the plaque. He certainly had a lot of blood on his hands


  • #18
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,862 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Statue of this fella in Killenkere just outside of Virgina Co. Cavan, he was a Union General in the Civil War, his troops murdered thousands in including women and children and is associated in being the first American General to a adopt a scorched earth policy and burning confederate villages and towns.

    Should this fella's statue be left standing, or is it different because he killed people for the greater good.

    He also was one of the Buffalo soldiers who killed thousand of native Indians and also the American Military named a tank after him

    I thought the Buffalo soldiers were all black regiments.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Is this a thing now? We go over the details of every historical figure, and if we find one thing we don't like the rest is ignored while the pitchfork and torch brigade tears down the statue.
    Jake1 wrote: »
    Joe Dolan staure : bad

    Phil Lynott statue : good

    One (allegedly!!) got kicked off Aer Lingus 'cos he used to get a bit jarred and try to fly the plane himself. Sounds like great craic, give the man a statue and rename Mullingar after him I say.

    All the other fella ever did was wear spandex trousers and give a career to Brush fuppin' Shiels. Something we're still paying for today. No way Jose!

    See? :)


  • #20
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    Hande hoche! wrote: »
    In fairness, it was a fairly crap tank.

    What were you expecting from airmobile armor?

    (Theres maybe 5 military buffs laughing fericious at this injoke) xd


  • #21
    Samaris
    Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    Okay, so is there a large population living in the vicinity of the statue whose ancestors were beaten, enslaved and wiped out by his actions and/or the actions of those of his ideology? Was the statue raised in a period of repressive laws long after the man's death to act as a warning and a symbol to the descendants of those people? Is there still long-standing issues that disproportionately affect those communities and are there still those that spread poison about them, consider them inferior and treat the statue as a homage to a greater time?

    No?

    Then it's irrelevant.

    Edit: Oh, he was a Union guy. Same thing applies. If there was a large population of local white southern American descendants of confederates to whom the statue was supposed to be a reminder of their underclass state, take it down. There isn't. So it's still irrelevant.


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  • #22
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Statue of this fella in Killenkere just outside of Virgina Co. Cavan, he was a Union General in the Civil War, his troops murdered thousands in including women and children and is associated in being the first American General to a adopt a scorched earth policy and burning confederate villages and towns.

    Should this fella's statue be left standing, or is it different because he killed people for the greater good.

    He also was one of the Buffalo soldiers who killed thousand of native Indians and also the American Military named a tank after him

    Sheridan wasn't a Buffalo soldier - he may well have had Buffalo soldier regiments under his command, but he wasn't one - it would, in fact be impossible for him to have been one.

    At least if you are going to denigrate the man's memory get the basic historical facts correct ;)

    ....and yes his Valley Campaign in the Shenandoah was as brutal if not more so than Sherman's March to the Sea, but how do you think they might otherwise have suppressed the secessionist rebellion?


  • #23
    Hande hoche!
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,859 ✭✭✭Hande hoche!


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    What were you expecting from airmobile armor?

    (Theres maybe 5 military buffs laughing fericious at this injoke) xd

    I'm sure there is a few in this tread thread.


  • #24
    Maewyn Succat
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Maewyn Succat


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Statue of this fella in Killenkere just outside of Virgina Co. Cavan, he was a Union General in the Civil War, his troops murdered thousands in including women and children and is associated in being the first American General to a adopt a scorched earth policy and burning confederate villages and towns.

    Should this fella's statue be left standing, or is it different because he killed people for the greater good.

    He also was one of the Buffalo soldiers who killed thousand of native Indians and also the American Military named a tank after him

    There is no statue of him in Killinkere(correct spelling) . There is a placque on a wall of an old house that would barely be noticed by 99% of the people who drive past it unless they already knew it was there.
    The statue of him is actually in Sheridan Circle in Washington DC.


  • #25
    topper75
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,942 ✭✭✭topper75


    Maewyn Succat wrote: »
    There is no statue of him in Killinkere(correct spelling) . There is a placque on a wall of an old house that would barely be noticed by 99% of the people who drive past it unless they already knew it was there.
    The statue of him is actually in Sheridan Circle in Washington DC.

    So the Cavan lads have wasted money buying torches? :pac:


  • #26
    The_Valeyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭The_Valeyard


    topper75 wrote: »
    So the Cavan lads have wasted money buying torches? :pac:

    They are too cheap to even buy the torches


  • #27
    Maewyn Succat
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Maewyn Succat


    topper75 wrote: »
    So the Cavan lads have wasted money buying torches? :pac:

    I have no idea what you're on about...


  • #28
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Maewyn Succat wrote: »
    I have no idea what you're on about...

    He says they're cheap


  • #29
    Maewyn Succat
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Maewyn Succat


    Are Am Eye wrote: »
    He says they're cheap

    I was asking about the torches not being cheap.


  • #30
    Are Am Eye
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,166 ✭✭✭Are Am Eye


    Maewyn Succat wrote: »
    I was asking about the torches not being cheap.

    Angry mob with torches

    See also pitchfork.


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  • #31
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    Samaris wrote: »
    Edit: Oh, he was a Union guy. Same thing applies. If there was a large population of local white southern American descendants of confederates to whom the statue was supposed to be a reminder of their underclass state, take it down. There isn't. So it's still irrelevant.

    I think that's the whole point of the thread - to point out the hypocrisy of libtard snowflake SJWs or something like that. We have zero skin in the game on this score and we really need to stop importing this type of complete and utter bolloxology from the States. Pigeons need something to poo on and if there's no statutes, they'll start doing it on my car…


  • #32
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    JEB Stuart was greater than this yellow belly Yankee.


  • #33
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,557 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Robert E Lee said that: "I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the
    sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."

    The Romans didn't celebrate 'triumphs' in civil wars.
    It shouldn't happen in Northern Ireland (and the Boyne was a civil war battle).
    It shouldn't happen in the USA.

    You commemorate soldiers where they fell, or you mark with a plaque where they were born. So I'm ok with the people of Cavan being too cheap to put up a statue to one of their most famous sons, and going with a plaque instead.
    On this one occasion, their stinginess had led them to the right decision.

    Plus I heard he was so good at whuppin dem Injuns as he made every bullet and horse count.
    In true Cavan fashion.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #34
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,557 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Statue of this fella in Killenkere just outside of Virgina Co. Cavan...

    The town named in honour of her majesty Queen Elizabeth 1st of Great Britain and Ireland???

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #35
    Chester Copperpot
    Closed Accounts Posts: 103 ✭✭Chester Copperpot


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    The town named in honour of her majesty Queen Elizabeth 1st of Great Britain and Ireland???

    Yes well like a lot of towns in County cavan, it was founded during the plantations which give them a distinct structure. Generally wide streets to facilitate trading, as was a prominent lace trade in the region


  • #36
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,030 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Virginia is a nice spot.. used to live there myself for a few years.

    Anyway, no leave the statue alone. It's not that I even remember seeing it or anything, but FFS the hysteria over historical symbols and statues and whether they're still "acceptable" lately is just ridiculous.
    Maybe we should just rewrite or remove the parts of history we don't like so everyone can feel good. WWII was terrible and millions suffered.. let's all agree it never happened sure! :rolleyes: Absolute nonsense from those with too much time on their hands and access to the Internet.

    In the past, bad things happened and sometimes to good people (and not much has changed). Get over it! Better yet, learn from it so we can try to avoid the same things happening again.

    Oh and...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMUQMSXLlHM


    Much better!


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  • #37
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Robert E Lee said that: "I think it wiser, moreover, not to keep open the
    sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."

    The Romans didn't celebrate 'triumphs' in civil wars.
    It shouldn't happen in Northern Ireland (and the Boyne was a civil war battle).
    It shouldn't happen in the USA.

    You commemorate soldiers where they fell, or you mark with a plaque where they were born. So I'm ok with the people of Cavan being too cheap to put up a statue to one of their most famous sons, and going with a plaque instead.
    On this one occasion, their stinginess had led them to the right decision.

    Plus I heard he was so good at whuppin dem Injuns as he made every bullet and horse count.
    In true Cavan fashion.

    So you agree with someone who was pro-slavery?


  • #38
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,557 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Ipso wrote: »
    So you agree with someone who was pro-slavery?

    On the subject of slavery... no.
    On other subjects... yes.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #39
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    So who gets to pick and choose, and from whom.
    Personally I don't trust the people on the statue brigade to choose what goes or not, and let's face it the stupid runs deep in a lot of them.


  • #40
    indioblack
    Registered Users Posts: 1,946 ✭✭✭indioblack


    Royal Legend wrote: »
    Statue of this fella in Killenkere just outside of Virgina Co. Cavan, he was a Union General in the Civil War, his troops murdered thousands in including women and children and is associated in being the first American General to a adopt a scorched earth policy and burning confederate villages and towns.

    Should this fella's statue be left standing, or is it different because he killed people for the greater good.

    He also was one of the Buffalo soldiers who killed thousand of native Indians and also the American Military named a tank after him

    His thinking, I understand, was to use a similar strategy of scorched earth against the Plains Indians - in their case the target was the buffalo.
    "The only good Indians I saw were dead".
    I think their is some dispute as to whether he actually said that.


  • #41
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 33,557 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Ipso wrote: »
    So who gets to pick and choose, and from whom.
    Personally I don't trust the people on the statue brigade to choose what goes or not, and let's face it the stupid runs deep in a lot of them.

    I volunteer myself as a neutral party.
    I can take a 3 month sabbatical from work for an all expenses paid trip to Civil War statue sites.
    I will assess the statue's position in relation to known military sites and apolitical sites related to the person in question.

    References available on request.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



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  • #42
    Maewyn Succat
    Registered Users Posts: 506 ✭✭✭Maewyn Succat


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Virginia is a nice spot.. used to live there myself for a few years.

    Anyway, no leave the statue alone. It's not that I even remember seeing it or anything, but FFS the hysteria over historical symbols and statues and whether they're still "acceptable" lately is just ridiculous.
    Maybe we should just rewrite or remove the parts of history we don't like so everyone can feel good. WWII was terrible and millions suffered.. let's all agree it never happened sure! :rolleyes: Absolute nonsense from those with too much time on their hands and access to the Internet.

    In the past, bad things happened and sometimes to good people (and not much has changed). Get over it! Better yet, learn from it so we can try to avoid the same things happening again.

    Oh and...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMUQMSXLlHM


    Much better!

    The statue is in Washington DC. That's probably why you didn't see it.


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