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Season 7 Episode 6 "Beyond the Wall" - "Non book readers" - Spoilers from post 2

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Comments

  • #392
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I find it quite weird that GoT has no lead character archers. No Legolas type.

    Theon began somewhat like that, but that was a long time ago..


  • #393
    Knex*
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,477 ✭✭✭✭Knex*


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I find it quite weird that GoT has no lead character archers. No Legolas type.

    Ramsay?


  • #394
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    Conall Cernach wrote: »

    Historically in the middle ages the...

    Except this is set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away.


  • #395
    J. Marston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,381 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Edmure "Deadeye" Tully is the best archer in Westeros...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sszQJVIDWjE


  • #396
    Bobby Baccala
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,342 ✭✭✭Bobby Baccala


    Where were the Ice Giants when all this was going on? Sorry if its already been discussed, only read as far as page 20


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  • #397
    lazybones32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,647 ✭✭✭lazybones32


    I didn't like that episode. Too many plot holes, forced tension and poor writing.

    On the journey North, every major character had a one-to-one with each other and it felt forced - how many times did people stop for a chat?. The humour was forced too,and i never thought i'd sigh upon hearing the hound say "cvnt".
    The battle scene was a bit too much: thousands of wights coming from every direction and yet never overwhelmed them. And retreating when there's nowhere to retreat to. To lose 3 people against the NK and some of his army is stretching it too far. Tormund being dragged towards the water by wights that can swim/float only to be saved at the last second...i get that everyone can't be killed off but ffs, half the appeal was that main characters can die.
    Dragons showing up at the exact moment the group were being overrun...john deciding to stay fighting wights when he could have jumped on drogo and gone home...but no, another free-diving world record and benjen to the last second rescue...jon arriving at the wall at the precise moment daeny decided to leave...if the two are in love, GoT could have laid the foundation better than "bend the knee", "no", lingering looks and then, i love you "my queen" hecause i believe in you.

    The visuals were great; i liked Sansa/Arya conflict, seeing as arya has kind of hated her for years, but the dialogue , story and content quality has really suffered.

    I fear that without the baseline of books to work from, the last 2 seasons could be weakest of all and resort to relying on CGI and fanservice. I know most series run out of steam and the latter seasons are the forgettable ones but for GoT to finish on a low after being solid for the majority would be a shame. I'd prefer to have to wait longer for the final S and have it bulletproof and climactic rather than a rushed attempt to address every situation and answer all Q's.


  • #398
    Unearthly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,153 ✭✭✭Unearthly


    P4DDY2K11 wrote: »
    Where were the Ice Giants when all this was going on? Sorry if its already been discussed, only read as far as page 20

    Hbo ran out of cgi budget having all three dragons :p


  • #399
    KKkitty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭KKkitty


    Arya and Sansa have always been different people though. The time they've spent apart hasn't helped either. If Ned had lived things would be very different for both of them. They come from the same family but that's all they have in common. If Catelyn survived she'd be able to get them to put their differences aside for their family but they don't even have that.


  • #400
    OneOfThem Stumbled
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭OneOfThem Stumbled


    KKkitty wrote: »
    Arya and Sansa have always been different people though. The time they've spent apart hasn't helped either. If Ned had lived things would be very different for both of them. They come from the same family but that's all they have in common. If Catelyn survived she'd be able to get them to put their differences aside for their family but they don't even have that.

    Yeah I think it's quite likely that they'd never be "besties", or that Arya mightn't feel like staying long-term in Winterfell if Jon wasn't around, but the conflict feels forced. The earlier scenes with Sansa questioning Jon in front of all the Northern lords was weak (because it would have been both out of character and also would not have been tolerated), but presumably it was done just to manufacture the conflict between Arya and herself, which is really being done to give Littlefinger something to do.

    Don't get me wrong, I love a little Littlefinger plotting, but I mean, let's be honest, he hasn't really been himself since he left the Red Keep. He may have grown senile during his trip to the Eyrie, since many of his actions have simply made little sense (and the fact that the plot hasn't punished him for these blunders is a shame). He's now rattling around Winterfell hoping to drive a wedge between the Stark children so that Sansa will open up to him (giggidy), but he will likely be foiled by Jon.


  • #401
    Adamocovic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,292 ✭✭✭Adamocovic


    OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »
    Yeah I think it's quite likely that they'd never be "besties", or that Arya mightn't feel like staying long-term in Winterfell if Jon wasn't around, but the conflict feels forced. The earlier scenes with Sansa questioning Jon in front of all the Northern lords was weak (because it would have been both out of character and also would not have been tolerated), but presumably it was done just to manufacture the conflict between Arya and herself, which is really being done to give Littlefinger something to do.

    Don't get me wrong, I love a little Littlefinger plotting, but I mean, let's be honest, he hasn't really been himself since he left the Red Keep. He may have grown senile during his trip to the Eyrie, since many of his actions have simply made little sense (and the fact that the plot hasn't punished him for these blunders is a shame). He's now rattling around Winterfell hoping to drive a wedge between the Stark children so that Sansa will open up to him (giggidy), but he will likely be foiled by Jon.

    And then there's Bran sitting there...fully aware of all the lies Littlefinger has told and is continuing to do so. You'd think he'd pull himself away from the tree long enough to let the rest know :P


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  • #402
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 13,822 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    This scene is better than anything this episode had to offer

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd9ijGxcixc


  • #403
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    J. Marston wrote: »
    Edmure "Deadeye" Tully is the best archer in Westeros...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sszQJVIDWjE

    That's a great scene, one I'd forgotten about. It says so much about Edmure and the Blackfish without a word being spoken. The Blackfish not even looking to see if the arrow lands, he was some man for one man.


  • #404
    KKkitty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,537 ✭✭✭KKkitty


    How will Jon find out who he really is? Maybe that's the cliffhanger this series ends on. Sam or Bran tell him and the credits roll.


  • #405
    quad_red
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,579 ✭✭✭quad_red


    Unearthly wrote: »
    Hbo ran out of cgi budget having all three dragons :p

    Probably! It's the reason dire wolves were so sparsely used. A behind the sc3nes on the battle of the bastards showed the choice was between having wun wun or ghost.


  • #406
    Harambe
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Harambe


    They used CGI on an entire army of wights / white walkers. I'm sure it wouldn't have been hard to throw in a few giants as well.

    Although the whole plot with the ice breaking to separate the army of the dead from Jon and co would not have worked if giants were there :pac:


  • #407
    Jamiekelly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,047 ✭✭✭Jamiekelly


    Seen this comment on YT and had to post it here...

    They basically traded a wight for a dragon...this has been the worst trade in the history of trade deals, we will blame night king for this, and build a second wall. A tall beautiful wall, more beautiful than the last and the night king will pay for it. Oh he's gonna pay believe me.

    :D


  • #408
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    Jamiekelly wrote: »
    Seen this comment on YT and had to post it here...

    They basically traded a wight for a dragon...this has been the worst trade in the history of trade deals, we will blame night king for this, and build a second wall. A tall beautiful wall, more beautiful than the last and the night king will pay for it. Oh he's gonna pay believe me.

    :D

    Viserion will bring the wall down in the next episode I bet.


  • #409
    Avatar MIA
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,748 ✭✭✭Avatar MIA


    Jamiekelly wrote: »

    They basically traded a wight for a dragon...

    I thought you were going to make a Chess analogy :pac:


  • #410
    MisterAnarchy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,900 ✭✭✭✭MisterAnarchy


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    Viserion will bring the wall down in the next episode I bet.

    That is probably the irony of the whole wight expedition ,if they hadn't gone North of the wall ,the Night King wouldn't have gotten his dragon and he and his army wouldn't be able to cross the wall.


  • #411
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    MisterAnarchy wrote: »
    That is probably the irony of the whole wight expedition ,if they hadn't gone North of the wall ,the Night King wouldn't have gotten his dragon and he and his army wouldn't be able to cross the wall.

    Dany should have listened to Tyrion for once and have let them all die.


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  • #412
    XsApollo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,593 ✭✭✭XsApollo


    LittleFinger is getting played here,
    The slimiest sh*t on the show is going to get done big time I'd say.

    We all know how Arya and Sansa have changed but nobody in the show knows what they are capable of.
    The cat will be let out of the bag soon enough with regards both of them and the finger is gonna get it :-D


  • #413
    Doola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭Doola


    Can anyone shed some light on this entire piece of dialogue between Jon and Beric, because it made zero sense to me?!

    Beric: Death is the enemy, the first enemy and the last.
    Jon: But we all die
    Beric: The enemy always wins, but we still need to fight him. That's all I know. You and I won't find much joy while we're here, but we can keep others alive. We can defend those who can't defend themselves.
    Jon: I am the shield that guards the realms of men.
    Beric: Maybe we don't need to understand anymore than that. Maybe thats enough
    Jon: Aye, maybe thats enough

    What are they rambling on about? Everyone dies, but we might be able to save others -whats the point of that?!
    And the line Jon says about guarding the realms of men was delivered like he was quoting something - anyone know what?


  • #414
    ali_d
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 75 ✭✭ali_d


    Was it just my eyes or is there something going on with Long Claw? When Jon was in the water the camera zoomed in in LC and it's eyes were white and when Jon emerged they look black?


  • #415
    Pugzilla
    Site Banned Posts: 1,762 ✭✭✭Pugzilla


    Doola wrote: »
    Can anyone shed some light on this entire piece of dialogue between Jon and Beric, because it made zero sense to me?!

    Beric: Death is the enemy, the first enemy and the last.
    Jon: But we all die
    Beric: The enemy always wins, but we still need to fight him. That's all I know. You and I won't find much joy while we're here, but we can keep others alive. We can defend those who can't defend themselves.
    Jon: I am the shield that guards the realms of men.
    Beric: Maybe we don't need to understand anymore than that. Maybe thats enough
    Jon: Aye, maybe thats enough

    What are they rambling on about? Everyone dies, but we might be able to save others -whats the point of that?!
    And the line Jon says about guarding the realms of men was delivered like he was quoting something - anyone know what?

    Guarding the realms of men is from the Night's Watch oath.
    That death stuff is just bad writing from D&D.


  • #416
    Cheensbo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,704 ✭✭✭Cheensbo


    Doola wrote: »
    Can anyone shed some light on this entire piece of dialogue between Jon and Beric, because it made zero sense to me?!

    Beric: Death is the enemy, the first enemy and the last.
    Jon: But we all die
    Beric: The enemy always wins, but we still need to fight him. That's all I know. You and I won't find much joy while we're here, but we can keep others alive. We can defend those who can't defend themselves.
    Jon: I am the shield that guards the realms of men.
    Beric: Maybe we don't need to understand anymore than that. Maybe thats enough
    Jon: Aye, maybe thats enough

    What are they rambling on about? Everyone dies, but we might be able to save others -whats the point of that?!
    And the line Jon says about guarding the realms of men was delivered like he was quoting something - anyone know what?


    They are fighting the night king - (who brings death)

    They need to fight him to allow life and death to continue in its natural order - if the NK wins, it will mean that all of the living are gone, and all that will remain is dead stuff, wights, zombie bears & dragons.. i.e. death would win.

    The quoted piece by jon was part of his oath to the nights watch.


  • #417
    Dempsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,529 ✭✭✭✭Dempsey


    Doola wrote: »
    Can anyone shed some light on this entire piece of dialogue between Jon and Beric, because it made zero sense to me?!

    Beric: Death is the enemy, the first enemy and the last.
    Jon: But we all die
    Beric: The enemy always wins, but we still need to fight him. That's all I know. You and I won't find much joy while we're here, but we can keep others alive. We can defend those who can't defend themselves.
    Jon: I am the shield that guards the realms of men.
    Beric: Maybe we don't need to understand anymore than that. Maybe thats enough
    Jon: Aye, maybe thats enough

    What are they rambling on about? Everyone dies, but we might be able to save others -whats the point of that?!
    And the line Jon says about guarding the realms of men was delivered like he was quoting something - anyone know what?

    They are talking about their ability to influence the quality of life of everyone in westeros


  • #418
    Doola
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18 ✭Doola


    Thanks Pugzilla and Cheensbo. Makes more sense alright.


  • #419
    OneOfThem Stumbled
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 936 ✭✭✭OneOfThem Stumbled


    Pugzilla wrote: »
    That death stuff is just bad writing from D&D.

    Aye, it's bad. Bad as anything you might know. And maybe we don't need to understand anything more than that. You and I won't find much joy while we're here. Aye, maybe that's enough.
    MisterAnarchy wrote: »
    That is probably the irony of the whole wight expedition ,if they hadn't gone North of the wall ,the Night King wouldn't have gotten his dragon and he and his army wouldn't be able to cross the wall.

    Clearly the Night King is a game sort of guy, looking for a real challenge. Sure he could have just killed all of them by killing the sitting duck of Drogo instead of the much more difficult, flying target of (Viseryon?) first, but he is looking to challenge himself and leave his main opponents alive, and with two dragons. Also the wights can still work when dunked in ice water apparently.


  • #420
    J. Marston
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,381 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »
    Aye, it's bad. Bad as anything you might know. And maybe we don't need to understand anything more than that. You and I won't find much joy while we're here. Aye, maybe that's enough.



    Clearly the Night King is a game sort of guy, looking for a real challenge. Sure he could have just killed all of them by killing the sitting duck of Drogo instead of the much more difficult, flying target of (Viseryon?) first, but he is looking to challenge himself and leave his main opponents alive, and with two dragons. Also the wights can still work when dunked in ice water apparently.
    Well they're hardly going to drown or get hypothermia.


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  • #421
    D3sperado
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 84 ✭✭D3sperado


    ali_d wrote: »
    Was it just my eyes or is there something going on with Long Claw? When Jon was in the water the camera zoomed in in LC and it's eyes were white and when Jon emerged they look black?

    I spotted that as well, lots of tweets and reddit posts about it (image attached in case anyone hasn't seen it). I seen a post someone did saying it happened in the Hardhome episode as well but I can find it....

    Probably just a drop of water and a trick of the light but still, it was so prominent in the shot that I'm not writing it off as a non-runner just yet!


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