Please BBC "Free" on Satellite is NOT "Freeview"

watty · 06-08-2003 11:47am #1

Avoid Confusion.. Don't call Satellite FTA channels "Freeview"

Freeview:
DTT or DVBt( Digital via UHF aerial Terrestrial)
Includes ITV, C4, Five and ITV2
Requires a UK DTT receiver connected to Aerial
About 29 Channels
Only a few Radio

FTA, Satellite FTA:
DSAT or DVBs (Digital via Ku band Satellites 22,500 miles away)
EXCLUDES ITV, C4, Five and ITV2
Requires ANY DVBs Satellite Digital revceiver or Sky+ or Digibox connected to an LNB (horn like box) on a Dish
About 1100 Channels can be got easily in Ireland.
A fixed dish and single LNB can only "see" one Satellite slot , "Sky" at 28E is actually from 4 satellites.
Typically each satellite has 50 to 100 free radio and 80 to 200 Free TV

FTV, Free To View Satellite:
DSAT or DVBs (Digital via Ku band Satellites 22,500 miles away)

INCLUDES ITV, C4, Five and ITV2 from "Sky"

Other countries (Netherlands, Switzerland, Scandinavian run similar schemes. Often there is a once off Admin charge or a small annual charge for "Administration" In the UK BBC paid 82% of this and Five/Ch4 paid 18%. ITV paid nothing. With withdrawal of BBC (now FTA, not FTV) the UK scheme has collapsed. Most of the FTV cards are being turned off and no new ones issued.

Requires Sky+ or Digibox connected to an LNB (horn like box) on a Dish, and FTV card, which used to be free but can't be got anymore. Other countries use basically any Digital Satellite Receiver NOT a Digibox, with a suitable card slot for the FTV card.

Subscription Satellite
Unlike MMDS and Cable, ALL the gear is youors from day1. You may have a minimum 1 year contract initially.

If you cancel you still get all the FTA channels.

With Satellite you can change which Satellite your dish points at by either moving the dish or switching to a different fixed LNB on the dish. An 80cm dish with three LNBs can easily get 3 Satellites giving about 600 TV and 550 Radio FREE.

Icehouse · 06-08-2003 11:55am

As Freeview DTT doesn't exist in Ireland, people calling free to air or free to view channels on satellite "freeview" shouldn't cause too much confusion, even if it does annoy you a bit Watty !

DMC · 06-08-2003 11:58am

watty is right, though. Advertising from the BBC and the position as FTA on satellite has been known to confuse their DTT offering, branded as Freeview.

watty · 06-08-2003 12:08pm

Lots of people in Ireland can get UK Freeview from Brougher, Limavady, Divis, Wales etc.

There are proposals for an Irish DTT / Freeview.

Free Satellite in the clear = FTA = Free to Air

Free Satellite encrypted to limit who or where gets it = FTV= Free to View.

Yes the UK FTV system is now a mess. But ITV, C4 and Five are still technically FTV.

You *CAN* get a Swiss "FTV" card and a Dutch "FTV" card. These you pay an Administrative charge for presumably to aviod the fiasco in the UK.

The Swiss one unlike UK and Dutch is available openly outside Switzerland. They tell the "Rights holder" that they only give it to Swiss Nationals. Seemingly though they don't normally ask for a Passport :0)

The Austrians and Scandinavians have schemes of some sort too. Though I beleive the Austrian main channel is going FTA. Some FTA "german" channels are actually FTA Austrian

There is one FTA Dutch/Belgian (BVN) and one FTA Swiss (SFi).

PacMan · 06-08-2003 1:19pm

Have to agree with Watty. Not only is the term "FreeView" annoying it is also very misleading.
Lots of ads have appeared in the local papers here in Tipperary over the past few weeks. All claiming to provide freeview on satellite. Which in theory correct. However In conversation with friends and neighbours, most assume that "Free BBC" would mean getting UTV and Channel 4 aswell. One should remember the old saying from years ago, "Getting the BBC" or "BBC Aerial" which were a reference to the old illegal deflector aerials. You got and paid for a BBC aerial and received BBC1 BBC2 UTV and Ch4.
Most people are under the impression that FreeView BBC is also UTV etc.
We all know that BBC 1/2/3/4 /News 24 /Cbbeebies/Cbbc/Sky News/CNN/ITV News/ are available. In addition one can receive the zillions of what one can descripe as "Cr*p" shopping channels. Yes there are a few decent music channels available.
It just a case of Buyer beware I suppose.........

Tony · 06-08-2003 4:55pm

Nearly everyone who has rang me recently has asked about the BBC "Freeview" service so its a term that customers wish to use rightly or wrongly. I do not see how it is annoying or misleading, its a set of channels which may be viewed for free. Almost everyone who rings me assumes that ch4/itv are carried on Sky digital so this particular confusion its not exclusive to using the term "Freeview". Assuming certain channels are carried on certain platforms is wishful thinking at best and using a term other than "Freeview " is not going to alter this misconception.

I'm with the customers on this one, if they want to call it freeview then so be it.

Tony

Originally posted by PacMan
Have to agree with Watty. Not only is the term "FreeView" annoying it is also very misleading.
Lots of ads have appeared in the local papers here in Tipperary over the past few weeks. All claiming to provide freeview on satellite. Which in theory correct. However In conversation with friends and neighbours, most assume that "Free BBC" would mean getting UTV and Channel 4 aswell. One should remember the old saying from years ago, "Getting the BBC" or "BBC Aerial" which were a reference to the old illegal deflector aerials. You got and paid for a BBC aerial and received BBC1 BBC2 UTV and Ch4.
Most people are under the impression that FreeView BBC is also UTV etc.
We all know that BBC 1/2/3/4 /News 24 /Cbbeebies/Cbbc/Sky News/CNN/ITV News/ are available. In addition one can receive the zillions of what one can descripe as "Cr*p" shopping channels. Yes there are a few decent music channels available.
It just a case of Buyer beware I suppose.........

Paddy20 · 06-08-2003 8:09pm

The expression used by watty, was quote: " Avoid Confusion" -end quote. Not - annoying or misleading?.. surely it is more important that his thread is very educational and enlightening.

Than me mixing up the differance between Freeview*analogue channels received via your ordinary Aerial with the aid of a Freeview box, which has to be purchased for around STG £100 and through which you will eceive around 30 channels at present, anumber which is increasing all the time, or/and my "confusion" with the 100+" Free to Air" FTA channels that I am now receiving via my Sky digibox and Satellite dish, without having to pay any monthly subscription to Sky anymore, and I am now receiving over twice the number of channels than I was when I was paying the subs for the Sky Family package.

I now know the differance between Freeview* and Free to Air/FTA, thanks to wattys* very detailed explanation, which I am grateful to him for having started as a thread. As IMHO many people are not technowise or clued up, just like me, and we all have to learn or be educated.

In the end all this will benefit the end user i.e. the general public.

All the best.

Paddy20.;)

bkehoe · 06-08-2003 8:35pm

Paddy20, something must have been seriously wrong with your sky sub if you're getting more channels now than before???

Mossy Monk · 06-08-2003 8:56pm

it is like the confusuion some people had when they asked about FTA cards instead of FTV cards.

(FTA doesn't need a card for those wondering what i am on about)

maisflocke · 06-08-2003 9:59pm

Its also similar to the "confusion" a lot of people seem to have -particulary in the UK- when they automatically think that satellite TV, in general, is "Sky".

I receive TV & radio from three different satellites, but I do not -and never will- have Sky.

___________________________

maisflocke waves back to Watty in a sort of return passing

lawhec · 06-08-2003 10:00pm

I agree with watty on this. While it may not be such a huge deal in the Republic in places that are well out of reach from a UK terrestial transmitter, it is up here which can cause a massive amount of confusion.

The big difference between here and in the republic however is that the FTA move on satellite by the BBC is far less publicised here than in the south. Most people up here still think of satellite TV as Pay TV even though plenty of channels are Free to air on the EPG. Locally people are aware of the correct Freeview - that it is a digital service through a UHF aerial, and not through a satellite dish.

I can understand Tony's postition, but if the general Joe Soap talks to me about it I will try and explain the difference myself - funnily enough I haven't needed to! However it has been noted here for quite some time that Sky installers in the Republic have been known to make misleading claims in their adverts.:ninja:

Sin e an Fear · 06-08-2003 11:16pm

Have to agree with Watty. Not only is the term "FreeView" annoying it is also very misleading.

Hear, hear.

Same with people who call satellite TV 'cable'- where are the cables? In South Africa they call terrestrial pay-TV 'cable'- sad people....

Tony · 06-08-2003 11:26pm

Originally posted by Paddy20
The expression used by watty, was quote: " Avoid Confusion" -end quote. Not - annoying or misleading?.. surely it is more important that his thread is very educational and enlightening.

Paddy20.;)

I was replying to the post which did use the terms "annoying and misleading".

Tony

Tony · 06-08-2003 11:35pm

Originally posted by Northern Correspondent
I can understand Tony's postition, but if the general Joe Soap talks to me about it I will try and explain the difference myself - funnily enough I haven't needed to! However it has been noted here for quite some time that Sky installers in the Republic have been known to make misleading claims in their adverts.:ninja:

I agree some have used misleading adverts. The term freeview though has been widely used by the media here for this service and the term does seem to capture people's interest, remember most people do not care about technology they just want to know what the benefits are and if the use of the term gets them to contact me then I welcome it, at least at that point I can explain exactly what it is and what it does. If someone walks into an electrical shop looking for a hoover to clean carpets, the salesman can either say (A)hoover is a manufacturer and argue with the customer or (B) sell them a vacum cleaner.

Tony

telecinesk · 07-08-2003 7:06am

"" Though I beleive the Austrian main channel is going FTA. Some FTA "german" channels are actually FTA Austrian

""

Strange as ORF are dulacrypt in the plan to drop betacrypt in favour of cryptoworks in Dec only.

Watty where u get this info from?

seano · 07-08-2003 9:48am

http://www.cardsdump-board.de/board/index.php

Genghis · 07-08-2003 11:15am

It depends on the context. If you have a customer who has decided to call you and ultimately intends spending money with you, then you would obviously not wish to offend them by insisting they use an alternative term which is meaningless to them.

In general the discussion here tends to be informative, educational and enlightening. I think in this context we can afford to be more pedantic about the terms we use - so as to avoid confusion, so as to aid discussion etc.

The most obvious contrast between the two is that an ordinary Joe Soap doesn't need to be able to distinguish between different platforms - he just wants his 57 channels. Whereas on here, posters regularly compare and contrast competing platforms - so clearly we all need to appreciate the different labels. Furthermore, many people 'lurkers' look to this site to educate themselves independently about different products, and so it is important that we avoid confusion from this perspective.

I don't think a common sense approach to dealing with customers in any way conflicts with Watty's suggestion that on here we agree to use proper names wherever possible.

Darby OGill · 07-08-2003 11:30am

If someone walks into an electrical shop looking for a hoover to clean carpets, the salesman can either say (A)hoover is a manufacturer and argue with the customer or (B) sell them a vacum cleaner.

Tony

__________________

Tony, that's brilliant- all the salesmanship lessons ever needed have just been reduced to one sentence.

Small wonder you're on the way to the second million.........

Sin e an Fear · 07-08-2003 1:11pm

If someone walks into an electrical shop looking for a hoover to clean carpets, the salesman can either say (A)hoover is a manufacturer and argue with the customer or (B) sell them a vacum cleaner.

In New Zealand, the most popular brand of vacuum cleaner is Electrolux, the the extent that they have a verb to 'lux' instead of 'to hoover'.

sceptre · 07-08-2003 2:35pm

Ah but "hoover" has been regarded as a generic term on this side of the Atlantic since the 1940s due to generic use - so much so that "Hoover" is no longer a trade-marked term (the logo still is). See also "sellotape", "aspirin", "yo-yo" and countless other examples. Not so in the US where its use as a generic term for "vacuum cleaner" never occurred.

Tony · 07-08-2003 3:41pm

Eh when do I get the first million :-) ?

Originally posted by Darby O'Gill
If someone walks into an electrical shop looking for a hoover to clean carpets, the salesman can either say (A)hoover is a manufacturer and argue with the customer or (B) sell them a vacum cleaner.

Tony

__________________

Tony, that's brilliant- all the salesmanship lessons ever needed have just been reduced to one sentence.

Small wonder you're on the way to the second million.........

Tony · 07-08-2003 3:47pm

Originally posted by sceptre
Ah but "hoover" has been regarded as a generic term on this side of the Atlantic since the 1940s due to generic use - so much so that "Hoover" is no longer a trade-marked term (the logo still is). See also "sellotape", "aspirin", "yo-yo" and countless other examples. Not so in the US where its use as a generic term for "vacuum cleaner" never occurred.

Excellent examples, its a new product I know but "Freeview" seems to be the generic term used so far. Would "Free to view" be a more acceptable description guys or would that be confused with FTV cards?

Tony

carrolls · 07-08-2003 4:08pm

I think that there is a greater distinction between Freeview and FTA satellite than between a Nilfisk and a Hoover. Well a Dysan is the exception because of the lack of a bag.
I don't think Freeview has the same ring to it in Ireland as it has in the UK.

Paddy20 · 07-08-2003 4:32pm

Tony,

When I rang up SkyDigital in Scotland. To cancel my subscription package. They were very polite and helpful, even to the extent that they confirmed that the Sky Digibox and the Sky Satellite dish were now my property.

Also. they went so far as to inform me that I would be able to receive a good selection of "Free to Air" TV and Radio channels. I acted surprised and they then stated, Quote:- " Enjoy the Free to Air programmes and feel free to call Sky again at anytime" end quote.

By the way, After I asked them if Sky would be introducing a Internet access service in Ireland?. They stated, "Yes" and the announcment should appear on their website within about a month! and will include a range of Internet and telephony packages. They already offer a Skytalk unlimited telephone calls package in the U.K. which is saving people up to 60% discount on their old BT call charges bills!. Good EH!.

Paddy20.;)

Tony · 07-08-2003 7:21pm

I'm sorry I dont get your point?

Tony

Originally posted by Paddy20
Tony,

When I rang up SkyDigital in Scotland. To cancel my subscription package. They were very polite and helpful, even to the extent that they confirmed that the Sky Digibox and the Sky Satellite dish were now my property.

Also. they went so far as to inform me that I would be able to receive a good selection of "Free to Air" TV and Radio channels. I acted surprised and they then stated, Quote:- " Enjoy the Free to Air programmes and feel free to call Sky again at anytime" end quote.

By the way, After I asked them if Sky would be introducing a Internet access service in Ireland?. They stated, "Yes" and the announcment should appear on their website within about a month! and will include a range of Internet and telephony packages. They already offer a Skytalk unlimited telephone calls package in the U.K. which is saving people up to 60% discount on their old BT call charges bills!. Good EH!.

Paddy20.;)

Tony · 07-08-2003 7:25pm

The point I was making was that if someone rings me up asking for the freeview BBC system that his friend has I dont argue the somantics I just give them what they want. I really dont care what the system is called I simply refer to rule no 1. which is "Customer is always right". Rule no 2. is "if customer is wrong refer to rule no. 1.

Tony

Originally posted by carrolls
I think that there is a greater distinction between Freeview and FTA satellite than between a Nilfisk and a Hoover. Well a Dysan is the exception because of the lack of a bag.
I don't think Freeview has the same ring to it in Ireland as it has in the UK.

Paddy20 · 07-08-2003 8:06pm

Tony,

I was trying to suggest a name, as used by Sky Digital in relation to programmes available via Satellite without paying their subs i.e. they call them Free to Air or FTA.

Oh, and my "Avoid confusion" post was not posted specifically in response to your post, but for everyones consumption.

Just my 2cs worth!.

God it is hot in Donegal.

Paddy.

Tony · 07-08-2003 8:16pm

Ah I see Paddy, thanks for that, sorry for not picking up on it earlier. Problem with FTA is when I mention that to people not familiar with satellite they usually respond with "what does that mean" but thanks for your input.

Tony

Originally posted by Paddy20
Tony,

I was trying to suggest a name, as used by Sky Digital in relation to programmes available via Satellite without paying their subs i.e. they call them Free to Air or FTA.

Oh, and my "Avoid confusion" post was not posted specifically in response to your post, but for everyones consumption.

Just my 2cs worth!.

God it is hot in Donegal.

Paddy.

Paddy20 · 07-08-2003 8:16pm

bkehoe,

Nope, I had a sub to a Sky Family package, which gave me about 40 channels. Now I receive a mixed variety of TV & Radio channels which are Free to Air from the Sky digibox and sat dish which are now my property. In total 103 channels. Free.

Paddy20.

DMC · 07-08-2003 8:31pm

But paddy, they have always been there.... Have you only come across them now?? You've always had the pay channels and the FTA channels. Now, you dont have pay channels.

watty · 07-08-2003 8:51pm

Tony
Yes but you wouldn't call a feather duster a Hoover, to continue the analogy.

Freeview is the Branded name of a system that does not use Satellite AT ALL. Freeview is the rebranded name of UK DTT, once called ITV Digital and previously called On Digital after the pay channels collapsed. Unlike Sky, OnDigital/ITVDigital/Freeview boxes never ever needed a card for the Terrestiral Channels. The system is succesfully received via UHF aerial south of Sligo and in Wexford, among other places in Ireland.

"Freeview" boxes do not work on Satellite, but are used in Ireland to pick up Free BBC, ITV, C4, Five, ITV2 etc.

FTV or "Free To View" Satellite AWAYS needs a special card.

Free Satellite, that does not need a viewing card, BBC or otherwise is called UNIVERSALLY FTA or "Free To Air"

Using "Freeview" suggests that ITV, ITV2, C4 and Five are available. Only the BBC of UK terrestrials is FTA.

Calling a Satellite box/system "Freeview" or even freeview, to continue the analogy, is not much better than insisting a Flymo Lawnmower is a Hoover. It might Hover and remove stuff from law, but it isn't a vacuum cleaner.

Nor have people been buying "freeview" boxes for DTT more than 1/40th of time vacuum cleaners have been known as Hoovers.

PLEASE

BBC on sky till mid July WAS FTV (Free to View). Honest!

BBC on DTT (UK Terrestrial Digital) was always `Clear, Free to Air

BBC on Sky is now FTA (free to air), it was FTV (Free To View)

Only BBC on DTT (the former OnDigital/ITVDigital UHF aerial system) is currently referred to a Freeview. This is a new brand name for the platform that now has NO pay channels, unlike Sky which is a mix of FTA (free to air/clear) FTV (Free to View/encrypted), Pay (monthly) and PPV(Single program purchase).

Calling BBC on Sky freeview is misleading and very inaccurate as this may suggest that ITV/C4/Five are available here.

Lets not make something simple, Free channels that work without a card, complicated by misapplying a new Brand Name, Freeview. WHICH ONLY applies to UK Terrestrial Digital UK system.

Free channels have been around since Satellite TV started in late 1970s with Russian sponsered broadcasts to Indian villages.

BBC has simply turned off encryption to join the other 1100 free satellite channels you can pick up in Ireland.

Of course for us it might be the best group of free channels.

FREE TO AIR

Not FTV or Free To View (that needs a card)

Not Freeview (That does not need a Dish)

Paddy20 · 07-08-2003 9:09pm

DMC,

Yep, I have only now found out in the past week about Free to Air or FTA!, me not being very technical.

When my local TV Dealer [I only have one local] installed my Sky systemabout two years ago, and my Sky Family package was activated. I was only receiving the 40 odd channels via my sat ever since then. No one ever told me about FTA?, before I started diiging after my local Dealer told me I could not get Freeview* when I told him I was fed up paying Skys monthly subs.

Now, I am aware that I am receiving 103 FTA channels which is not Freeview*, but I am more than happy.

Yes, people like me do exist. I am no techie, more of a tecnophobe, mention something technical to me and my brain shuts down.

Paddy.

bkehoe · 07-08-2003 10:24pm

Paddy20, those channels were always there - all you had to do was scroll down in your EPG!

Tony · 07-08-2003 11:49pm

Originally posted by watty
Tony
Using "Freeview" suggests that ITV, ITV2, C4 and Five are available. Only the BBC of UK terrestrials is FTA.

Watty, most people who phone me are surprised that itv/ch4 are not available on Sky digital, does that mean i should stop calling it sky digital? Whether I use the term freeview or not will not alter most peoples perception. I agree with all the factual points you made in your posts but the use of the term is customer driven, it was used in the media long before I even thought about building a section on my website. I give a channel list below each product and no one has complained yet that ITv/Ch4 is not available. Most people here have no idea what the DTT system is in the Uk in any case.I'm afraid that unless I receive a complaint from either a customer or the ASAI I will not be making any changes to the site. (unless somebody comes up with a better term) BTW a minor detail I use two words, free and view not one as the DTT system does.

Tony

Tony · 07-08-2003 11:57pm

Another point the use of the term "Free to View" caused more confusion than almost any other aspect of satellite Tv going by the calls I received over a long period.

Tony

Paddy20 · 08-08-2003 12:00am

bkehoe,

Now I know. The thing to realise is a week ago I had never heard of EPG!, not that I am any the wiser as to what EPG exactly means even now, but having followed the good advice that a non techie like could understand I am more than happy with the 103 Sat channels that I am now receiving after putting my skycard in upsidedown in to the digibox which apparently activated the digibox EPG.

Before I did this I had scrolled through all the channels on my digibox quite a few times, but I was obviously not receiving the EPG channels, I do not know why , but I will be asking my local TV Dealer some serious questions when I see him face to face!.

Many thanks.

Paddy.;)

DMC · 08-08-2003 6:49am

Again, a missunderstanding of terms.

The EPG is the Electronic Programming Guide. It is the channel layout, i.e each channel number is part of the EPG. There are two (or four) varients of the EPG; one is the version you get with a Sky Sub, and other is the FTA EPG, which is what you have now,via the method of turning the card upside down on a reboot.

The EPG is not unique to the FTA layout you see before you. When you pressed 401 for Sky Sports 1, or used the TV Guide, you've always been using the EPG, just you've not known the techie term.

Paddy, you have always had the FTA channels, its just that the channels you PAID for were the ones which were promoted and looked at more.

And Paddy, I wouldn't ask the dealer, its not his issue, he'd just turn around and laff at you.

Paddy20 · 08-08-2003 11:35am

DMC,

Thanks for your info about EPG & FTA EPG. I now understand the term and the differance. However, when you say that I always had the FTA channels! it puzzles me. Many times I went in to system set - up and asked my digibox to find new channels it never produced anything other than my family package of about forty channels, and I manually flicked through all programmes on my digibox using the blue button and never saw the FTA programmes that I started to get firstly after I removed the Skycard completely rom the digibox. Without any card in the digibox I started to receive about 20 FTA channels a lot of them brand new and free.

Then when I re-inserted the Skycard [upsidedown] the number of programmes being received jumped to 103, this I now understand is because I had activated the FTA EPG.

As for the TV Dealer. He will I can assure you - not be laughing - when I am finished with him. As far as I am concerned he knew that I wanted to view Free Satellite channels. He simply told me that Freeview* was not available where I live. He could - AND SHOULD- have told me that I could still receive a selection of FTA channels after and if I canelled my Sky subscription. Nor did he inform me that the Sky digibox and Sat dish was my property after the first twelve months of the Sky contract had expired. This is a small community where locals look after each other. Our one and only TV Dealer is a blow in!that wehave looked after since he arrivedin this town after marrying a local girl. I will now be informing him that he has now let me down and as a result the fall off in his customer base will be swift and dramatic!.

All the best.

Paddy.

bkehoe · 08-08-2003 11:54am

The blue button is just for going through the channels you added to your favourites list. The add new channels thing is only for adding channels not on your EPG, e.g. the BBC radio ones if you've an Irish sky sub and know the frequency. All you had to do was press tvguide and scroll down through the list, or not even that; just went through the channels by pressing the up/down or ch +/- buttons on your remote.

Paddy20 · 08-08-2003 12:20pm

bkehoe,

Sorry, forget the blue button bit!. I often did as you say use the remote +/- to go through the channels, I also often looked at the TV Guide but the FTA channels were not listed i.e. BBC I N.I, etc, etc.

I had never been told anything about the frequency?, and I am not psychic. I spoke last night to a lot of my hometown friends and they are all now watching or listening to a variety of around 103 Free Satellite channels, and cancelling their Sky subscriptions as well as stating that they will never deal with our local TV Shop ever again for [Anything]!.

Many thanks again & all the best.

Paddy.

ShaneOC · 08-08-2003 12:30pm

You shoud find the BBC ONE NI is listed in the EPG on channel 214 (BBC TWO on 215).

Remeber the BBC channels only became FTA recently and were only added to the FTA EPG at the end of July.

Paddy20 · 08-08-2003 12:44pm

ShaneOC,

Many thanks. Last night I went through all the channels that I am now receiving, and made a list of each programme that I will either be watching or listening to in future. Much easier to now just tap in the progamme number on my remote, than having to manually click through looking for a particular favourite and a hell of a lot quicker!.

Well, I never knew that the BBC channels only became FTA recently or that they were only added to the FTA EPG at the end of July!, nice piece of info.

Much appreciated.

All the best & keep out of the sun its a killer in Donegal.

Paddy.;)

bkehoe · 08-08-2003 4:01pm

BBC1 and 2 NI have been on 214 and 215 for Irish sub owners since spring 2002 approx - if you hadnt got these then there was a problem with your card or something, especially if you didnt have the channels you're now getting....strange..

Please BBC "Free" on Satellite is NOT "Freeview"

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