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ISIS Terrorist Attack in Barcelona

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    #1112
    Barry Badrinath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Right...
    But its not a selective closing of borders to Muslims...its a total closure of borders to illegal migrants.

    I agree with closing borders to irregular migrants.


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    #1113
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    So we are innocent? We did nothing to destroy Iraq, Libya, Syria Yemen? And we looking to start another war in Iran. Why do we allow Israel to concentration camp millions of people? We not innocent in all this. Western interference has caused lot of this. There is nobody today ( who is sane anyway) will say we Invaded Iraq for humanitarian reasons?

    Islam has a goal and ISIS are trying to carry it out and ISIS themselves has said that Western Intervention is way down the list of reasons for any attacks....Main reason is to create a global caliphate and this would be done with or without Western invasion of the ME.


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    #1114
    EagererBeaver
    Registered Users Posts: 6,415 ✭✭✭EagererBeaver


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    How do you see Europe in 20 years time?

    Complete deflection. Explain your assertion that we're heading for "total war". I'm not sure your even understand the concept.


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    #1115
    Hector Savage
    Registered Users Posts: 8,810 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    This reminds me of the people that wanted cartoons of Mohammed banned as it will only make them angry and get innocent people killed.
    Part of the problem.


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    #1116
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    murpho999 wrote: »
    I don't like the populist, "arrest all muslims", "stop all immigration", "string em up" mob mentality that is promoted by many posters on this thread and I have argued against it.

    Somebody earlier wanted all 1st and 2nd generation muslim immigrants interned earlier. Just think how ridiculous and impractical that is.

    There's two problems here, the first is that by in large people aren't going down the line of 'arrest all muslims' or 'string em all up' YET; what they are asking for is sensible restrictions like stopping migration from problematic countries and not repeating the mistakes of our neighbours. Now, I can certainly see a time where people would start going down the route of actual violence and demanding the kind of things you mention above, but the primary reason for that is the inaction/poor decisions by the present establishment, which of course leads us to problem two.

    Problem two is that the conventional opposition to this 'populism' is making the tradition mistake of the left-wing, namely condemning and wanting to tear things and people down without any ideas to replace them. The argument has been made for a multi-cultural, inclusive, tolerant society since Islamist extremism really entered the public consciousness on 9/11. The results have not been satisfactory either in terms of the occurrence of terrorist attacks or with the wider state of the Muslim community in Europe which has lurched from debacle to another be it fighting for ISIS, backwards social attitudes or sexual abuse scandals. And yet, the answer offered by our political establishment is no more than keep doing what were doing and expect a different result - and that is simply not cutting it any more.


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    #1117
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »
    I agree with closing borders to irregular migrants.

    Irregular?...never heard them described that way before?
    Any reason?just curious.


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    #1118
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    So we are innocent? We did nothing to destroy Iraq, Libya, Syria Yemen? And we looking to start another war in Iran. Why do we allow Israel to concentration camp millions of people? We not innocent in all this. Western interference has caused lot of this. There is nobody today ( who is sane anyway) will say we Invaded Iraq for humanitarian reasons?

    Maybe you invaded Iraq but I didn't. Neither did anyone in Sweden - what's the excuse there?


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    #1119
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    I haven't seen the previous 73 pages on this thread but I'm going to assume there have been a lot of posts along the line of:

    - Irish people shouldn't be so quick to judge, we're not so squeaky clean in terms of our history. The IRA did such and such in [insert year]
    - Extremists come in all sides, we have seen only last week the dangers of white Christian terrorism.
    - We need to not focus on those who committed this atrocity, we need to focus on the victims.
    - They weren't Middle Eastern, they were born in [insert EU country]
    - Some sort of excuse regarding poverty.
    - Kick them all out.

    Won't get into a debate on this but we're beyond the pale at this stage. It's high time people recognise that sitting on our hands isn't working. There are terror cells out there that are hellbent on destruction, and they are targeting the vulnerable to do their bidding. I don't care what political persuasion or ethnic background (fairly clear some are a lot more dangerous than others) they are they need to be sorted out.

    I don't buy this Sadiq Khan line of "we need to accept this in a big city" attitude.


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    #1120
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    EagererBeaver wrote: »
    Complete deflection. Explain your assertion that we're heading for "total war". I'm not sure your even understand the concept.

    A history book would be a good start.


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    #1121
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Gravelly wrote: »
    Perhaps you should read back your posts to jog your memory. What comes across is that your primary, if not sole concern, is for the rights of the terrorists. If that's not what you are aiming for, perhaps make it clearer, because that's certainly how it's coming across to me and others.

    Well maybe people should read posts properly as I know what I meant.


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    #1122
    mahamageehad
    Registered Users Posts: 4,673 ✭✭✭mahamageehad


    German attack doesn't seem to be terror related yet, seems that one guy stabbed someone else in a shop. Nothing else confirmed except one dead, one seriously injured and the perp ran.


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    #1123
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Islam has a goal and ISIS are trying to carry it out and ISIS themselves has said that Western Intervention is way down the list of reasons for any attacks....Main reason is to create a global caliphate and this would be done with or without Western invasion of the ME.

    Majority of Muslims deplore Isis. Imagine an Arab country invading France and wiping it out and moving onto the next country and killing people! This is what we have done over there.

    There is billions of Muslims and most of them are not fighting christens or killing them.


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    #1124
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Senor Fancy Pants wrote: »
    Your comprehension skills seem to be lacking.

    "So we should open the borders to more muslims in case we make the ones already here angry enough to kill more of us?"

    The above was your rebuttal to that posters comment.

    Then I said it is not UNREASONABLE to SUGGEST that native Muslims would react negatively to such an event.

    That does NOT mean we keep borders open so they wont "kill us faster".

    You seem to want to be outraged instead of listening and putting forward a coherant argument.

    I am pro border restriction btw but any plan put in force must take account of any possible reactions.


    It's not my comprehension skills that are the problem here.

    I'll ask again. Read it slowly this time before going off on one.

    Are you trying to say, like the previous poster was, that we can't close our borders because it will "antagonise" the muslims already here?

    If so, what form do you believe this "antagonism" would take?


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    #1125
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    ligerdub wrote: »
    I haven't seen the previous 73 pages on this thread but I'm going to assume there have been a lot of posts along the line of:

    - Irish people shouldn't be so quick to judge, we're not so squeaky clean in terms of our history. The IRA did such and such in [insert year]
    - Extremists come in all sides, we have seen only last week the dangers of white Christian terrorism.
    - We need to not focus on those who committed this atrocity, we need to focus on the victims.
    - They weren't Middle Eastern, they were born in [insert EU country]
    - Some sort of excuse regarding poverty.
    - Kick them all out.

    Won't get into a debate on this but we're beyond the pale at this stage. It's high time people recognise that sitting on our hands isn't working. There are terror cells out there that are hellbent on destruction, and they are targeting the vulnerable to do their bidding. I don't care what political persuasion or ethnic background (fairly clear some are a lot more dangerous than others) they are they need to be sorted out.

    I don't buy this Sadiq Khan line of "we need to accept this in a big city" attitude.

    You need to adjust your profile settings.

    Page 29 for me.


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    #1126
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gravelly wrote: »
    Maybe you invaded Iraq but I didn't. Neither did anyone in Sweden - what's the excuse there?

    Do you think it was right to invade a country for oil and remove an enemy of Israel and Saudi Arabia? Was it worth it in lives lost and destruction of property?


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    #1127
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Majority of Muslims deplore Isis. Imagine an Arab country invading France and wiping it out and moving onto the next country and killing people! This is what we have done over there.

    There is billions of Muslims and most of them are not fighting christens or killing them.

    This royal "we" you keep using is puzzling. "We" who? Did the children lying dead in the streets of Barcelona invade an Arab country? Did the little girl killed in Sweden? Did anyone in Sweden? What about all the muslims being killed by other muslims in Arab countries - what arab country did they invade?


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    #1128
    Barry Badrinath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,460 ✭✭✭Barry Badrinath


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    Irregular?...never heard them described that way before?
    Any reason?just curious.

    Irregular migration encapsulates not only migration from a human trafficking / smuggling scenario but also migrants who either left their origin and transit countries without following correct administration processes and have entered another country doing same.

    It's a catch all and purely semantics.


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    #1129
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    ligerdub wrote: »
    I don't buy this Sadiq Khan line of "we need to accept this in a big city" attitude.

    I don't either because he never said that…

    This is the article everyone keeps quoting out of context.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-terrorism-attacks-part-and-parcel-major-cities-new-york-bombing-a7322846.html
    Sadiq Khan has ordered a review of London's strategy for coping with multiple terror attacks

    Sadiq Khan has said he believes the threat of terror attacks are “part and parcel of living in a big city” and encouraged Londoners to be vigilant to combat dangers.

    The Mayor of London revealed he had a “sleepless night” after the recent bombing in New York, and said major cities around the world “have got to be prepared for these sorts of things” to happen when people least expect them.

    The Mayor of London revealed he had a “sleepless night” after the recent bombing in New York, and said major cities around the world “have got to be prepared for these sorts of things” to happen when people least expect them.

    “That means being vigilant, having a police force that is in touch with communities, it means the security services being ready, but it also means exchanging ideas and best practice”, Mr Khan told the Evening Standard shortly before a meeting with New York mayor Bill de Blasio.

    Mr Khan was elected as Mayor in May and quickly appointed former Met Police Authority chair Lord Harris to review London’s terrorist attack response, in particular how the capital would cope in the event of multiple attacks taking place simultaneously.

    “Nothing is more important to me than keeping Londoners safe,” Mr Khan said at the time. “I want to be reassured that every single agency and individual involved in protecting our city has the resources and expertise they need to respond in the event that London is attacked.”

    Hardly the 'meh, shít happens sometimes in big cities' attitude that people portray him as having.


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    #1130
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    murpho999 wrote: »
    Well maybe people should read posts properly as I know what I meant.

    We all know what you meant, that's the problem.


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    #1131
    Snake Plisken
    Registered Users Posts: 12,539 ✭✭✭✭Snake Plisken


    Yep close the borders start prosecuting the NGO's who are a taxi service for those economic migrants. Tow any boats back to Tripoli! Get that Irish navy ship back to what it is supposed to be doing patrolling our waters!
    Internment for all Muslims that come on intelligence service radar as persons of interest! Mosques to be raided and closed if Imans preach hate or if any terrorists attended on a regular basis! The wearing of Burkas to be outlawed in public!
    The above will go some way to removing the constant threat to Europe and save innocent lives so we don't have to see videos of dead children on main streets in major European cities nearly every month!


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    #1132
    Il Fascista
    Closed Accounts Posts: 199 ✭✭Il Fascista


    Gravelly wrote: »
    This royal "we" you keep using is puzzling. "We" who? Did the children lying dead in the streets of Barcelona invade an Arab country? Did the little girl killed in Sweden? Did anyone in Sweden? What about all the muslims being killed by other muslims in Arab countries - what arab country did they invade?

    It's only used like that by people who buy into collective guilt. It's a concept I've never been able to wrap my head around.


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    #1133
    gitzy16v
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭gitzy16v


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    Majority of Muslims deplore Isis. Imagine an Arab country invading France and wiping it out and moving onto the next country and killing people! This is what we have done over there.

    There is billions of Muslims and most of them are not fighting christens or killing them.

    So what?Whats your point man,spit it out?
    I told you ISIS said that what the west did doesnt really matter...Global caliphate is the goal not revenge.
    Dont know what your going on about the majority of Muslims for...I mentioned Islam(the ideology) and ISIS(the terror group) not Muslims(who come in all different flavours of Islam)


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    #1134
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gravelly wrote: »
    This royal "we" you keep using is puzzling. "We" who? Did the children lying dead in the streets of Barcelona invade an Arab country? Did the little girl killed in Sweden? Did anyone in Sweden? What about all the muslims being killed by other muslims in Arab countries - what arab country did they invade?

    No they don't deserve to be attacked by scumbags who follow a cruel version of their religion, but lets be real here. There was no Isis, in Saddam time. We played a big part in this and allowing groups like this to grow and spread.


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    #1135
    ligerdub
    Registered Users Posts: 2,584 ✭✭✭ligerdub


    murpho999 wrote:
    You need to adjust your profile settings.

    murpho999 wrote:
    Page 29 for me.


    Ha! Fair enough.


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    #1136
    murpho999
    Registered Users Posts: 28,458 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Gravelly wrote: »
    We all know what you meant, that's the problem.

    Clearly not.


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    #1137
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Cheerful Spring wrote: »
    No they don't deserve to be attacked by scumbags who follow a cruel version of their religion, but lets be real here. There was no Isis, in Saddam time. We played a big part in this and allowing groups like this to grow and spread.

    There's that "we" again. If you mean the hard left, yes I'd agree, but please don't include me in that.


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    #1138
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    gitzy16v wrote: »
    So what?Whats your point man,spit it out?
    I told you ISIS said that what the west did doesnt really matter...Global caliphate is the goal not revenge.
    Dont know what your going on about the majority of Muslims for...I mentioned Islam(the ideology) and ISIS(the terror group) not Muslims(who come in all different flavours of Islam)

    Isis can't do ****, if Muslim people don't support it. There is never going to be a takeover of countries.


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    #1139
    Cheerful Spring
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,893 ✭✭✭Cheerful Spring


    Gravelly wrote: »
    There's that "we" again. If you mean the hard left, yes I'd agree, but please don't include me in that.

    Ireland is allied with America and the Uk. So we are involved, even if we don't like it.


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    #1140
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Apparently the "incident" in Elberfeld was a disagreement between a group of Iraqis and Syrians, so nothing to be worried about :rolleyes:


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    #1141
    A Little Pony
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,875 ✭✭✭A Little Pony


    These people are living on the island of Ireland.
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/republic-of-ireland/isis-suspects-who-slipped-back-into-republic-of-ireland-being-monitored-by-gardai-34226607.html
    Fought for ISIS and allowed to just walk right back into the country. Laughable really.


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