Fight Time From 4am-McGregor vs MayweatherMOD Warning in 1st Post

Mellor · 17-08-2017 11:30PM

Draw

the whole year inn wrote: »

Your just making excuses for him,he went in and got beat,no one is needleing him ,there just facts.
Can you not see your standing up for him and making excuses or that blind to the facts?

I never said he didn't get beat. I'm well aware that he has list 3 times. Anything that I actually said that you disagree with? What facts am I blind to?
To be really clear, because you may have missed the point, I'm saying that the result of a fight 8 years ago, when he was a white belt and had just started the sport has no bearing on his ability today. Pointing out that he lost, doesn't refute what I'm saying.

And if pointing out that kind of flawed logic means I'm defending him, then I'm defending him. So what? What's your point?

Gintonious wrote: »

What is Conors amateur record? Because you are comparing Floyds amateur record to Conors professional one.

That's precisely the point. Nobody holds those losses over Floyd, because that would be retarded. Those losses have no bearing on his abilities in the latter stages of his pro career. If he fought at too high a level too soon he may well have gotten an early losses. It would ruin his perfect record of course. But that's piece of paper, his actual ability today would be unchanged.
A record is an aid in accessing somebody, not the absolute measure of their ability.

StringerBell · 17-08-2017 11:49PM

Floyd via DQ

wonderfullife wrote: »

If he does them AND he wins, then they were effective.

So I'll return to this after he wins and discuss how they were effective.

Pretty classic correlation does not mean causation right there tbh

To go along with you for argument sake, if he wins it does not prove they were effective. He could win despite them, they could be of no consequence at all also.

If they are effective, that would prove they were effective.

wonderfullife · 18-08-2017 01:18AM

Conor via KO-TKO

colly10 wrote: »

You ever box yourself, find it hard to believe you think he'll leap at floyd and land a flying punch. He'd have sold himself before he's off the ground and if he gets caught coming in like that the shot will have more impact even forgetting that you have nothing under you to stop ye landing on your ass if ye get driven backwards.

Lot of people are already calling this a circuis. I'd imagine he'll have a go Steve Collins style but I can't see him turning it into a farce

Go watch the footage of his open workout

1:11:09 - Conor stands in wide southpaw and does a switch-jump into orthodox

1:28:05 - Conor starts in a wide orthodox stance and throws a switch-kick faint to end up in southpaw.

1:48:42 - Conor does a capoeira spin into southpaw.

The reason I believe he's going to throw all of these is because he's practising them

I 100% expect to see all these techniques thrown. If you think they mean he gets KO'd then so be it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh6iaigSXBU

wonderfullife · 18-08-2017 01:30AM

Conor via KO-TKO

Everyone (including myself) is in agreement if Conor tries to box like a traditional boxer he'll get destroyed.

He might as well throw all of his martial arts techniques that are allowed under the rules. You can be certain Floyd has never tried to time someone using a capoeira spin into range.

wonderfullife · 18-08-2017 01:39AM

Conor via KO-TKO

StringerBell wrote: »

Pretty classic correlation does not mean causation right there tbh

To go along with you for argument sake, if he wins it does not prove they were effective. He could win despite them, they could be of no consequence at all also.

If they are effective, that would prove they were effective.

There's no hard-and-fast way to prove their effectiveness unless he scores a KO or knockdown directly from one of the techniques.

Otherwise we'd just be guessing how much of a factor they were in disrupting Floyd's rhythm and timing.

ThinkProgress · 18-08-2017 04:41AM

Floyd via DQ

Mellor wrote: »

I never said he didn't get beat. I'm well aware that he has list 3 times. Anything that I actually said that you disagree with? What facts am I blind to?
To be really clear, because you may have missed the point, I'm saying that the result of a fight 8 years ago, when he was a white belt and had just started the sport has no bearing on his ability today. Pointing out that he lost, doesn't refute what I'm saying.

But those results DO matter... all wins and losses can be picked over by your opponent, and they can figure things out. They all paint a picture of you as a fighter!

One important thing, that those losses show, is Conor's propensity for having a touch of arrogance in his preparation. By not heeding JK's advice early on, he showed that he had some misjudgement regarding the importance of the grappling arts... had he put some more work in early doors, he might not have suffered those losses!

It's naive to think you can't learn things from watching someone's previous wins and losses!

That's precisely the point. Nobody holds those losses over Floyd, because that would be retarded. Those losses have no bearing on his abilities in the latter stages of his pro career. If he fought at too high a level too soon he may well have gotten an early losses. It would ruin his perfect record of course. But that's piece of paper, his actual ability today would be unchanged.
A record is an aid in accessing somebody, not the absolute measure of their ability.

That's not true... you can't say if someone's ability would be unchanged... Do you have a time machine?

I do think losses can change you as a fighter, and quite often those changes are not positive. (particularly mentally)

Just look at Conor losing to Diaz recently... those early losses, do undoubtedly influence your future performances. If there is things lacking in your preparation back then... it's also possible there will be elements of under preparation in the future too! The Diaz performances show me that.

The ability to come through tough moments, where other fighters might lose... that builds great character among other things. Like how I pointed out Jon Jones coming through some tough fights, were he might have lost... but he found a way to win. He showed his ability to "win AND learn"... those are some of the best lessons you can learn as a fighter!!

wonderfullife wrote: »

Go watch the footage of his open workout

1:11:09 - Conor stands in wide southpaw and does a switch-jump into orthodox

1:28:05 - Conor starts in a wide orthodox stance and throws a switch-kick faint to end up in southpaw.

1:48:42 - Conor does a capoeira spin into southpaw.

The reason I believe he's going to throw all of these is because he's practising them I 100% expect to see all these techniques thrown. If you think they mean he gets KO'd then so be it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh6iaigSXBU

:pac:

Seriously Wonder, get a grip dude... he's just playing around... loosening his body up... keeping the crowd interested. He's always the showman at heart!

Those clips are no real indication, that he will do any of that on fight night... and if he does... Floyd will NOT be troubled by any of that nonsense!

Seriously... is that the great MMA-based masterplan he's cooking up?? Jumping, and feinting some kicks?

Come on that's just amatuer hour stuff... he'll get picked off for fun by Floyd... :rolleyes:

wonderfullife wrote: »

Everyone (including myself) is in agreement if Conor tries to box like a traditional boxer he'll get destroyed.

He might as well throw all of his martial arts techniques that are allowed under the rules. You can be certain Floyd has never tried to time someone using a capoeira spin into range.

I am in agreement, that he likely loses no matter what he does... but if he abandons any kind of traditional boxing fundamentals, in favour of some crazy nonsense, that is completely useless in a boxing match... he will lose even quicker, and it will be even more comprehensive and embarrassing to watch!

But he's not going to do any of that nonsense... he's going to box... we can see this from when he is throwing punches at Paulie, when he hits the bags. He is not trying to be a martial artist... he's clearly trying to become a boxer!

wonderfullife wrote: »

There's no hard-and-fast way to prove their effectiveness unless he scores a KO or knockdown directly from one of the techniques.

Otherwise we'd just be guessing how much of a factor they were in disrupting Floyd's rhythm and timing.

A smart person knows that they would not be effective.... so yes, I can tell you right here and now, that they would not work.

I can also tell you, that Conor is very unlikely to use anything like that in any meaningful way during the actual fight. I think you are listening too much to delusional clowns such as Brendan Schaub and Robin Black... (although I get the feeling that these guys might just be saying ANYTHING just to hype the fight - and you are totally swallowing it either way!)

You are going to be very disappointed and deflated on Aug 26, when Conor comes out as a BOXER.... and attempts to give Floyd a BOXING MATCH... I can just imagine your face right now, as you scream at the TV screen in frustration that Conor is not using his "kick feints" and not jumping into the air... :pac::pac:

I guess that will be your handy little excuse when he loses to Floyd.... "Oh, but he could have won if he used his MMA style.... instead of a boxing style!" (yeah right... of course he could have)

wonderfullife · 18-08-2017 05:18AM

Conor via KO-TKO

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Seriously Wonder, get a grip dude... he's just playing around... loosening his body up... keeping the crowd interested. He's always the showman at heart!

Those clips are no real indication, that he will do any of that on fight night... and if he does... Floyd will NOT be troubled by any of that nonsense!

But he's not going to do any of that nonsense... he's going to box... we can see this from when he is throwing punches at Paulie, when he hits the bags. He is not trying to be a martial artist... he's clearly trying to become a boxer!

I can also tell you, that Conor is very unlikely to use anything like that in any meaningful way during the actual fight. I think you are listening too much to delusional clowns such as Brendan Schaub and Robin Black... (although I get the feeling that these guys might just be saying ANYTHING just to hype the fight - and you are totally swallowing it either way!)

You are going to be very disappointed and deflated on Aug 26, when Conor comes out as a BOXER.... and attempts to give Floyd a BOXING MATCH... I can just imagine your face right now, as you scream at the TV screen in frustration that Conor is not using his "kick feints" and not jumping into the air... :pac::pac:

I must give you credit for your condescension.

For the record, when Joe Cortez separated Paulie and Conor in the clinch, Conor dropped back into kicking range and his MMA stance. When he landed the straight left on Paulie and snapped his head back, his feet weren't even in camera shot because he had dropped back into MMA range.

I don't care what Conor does in the fight as long as he does himself proud, win or lose. But I can guarantee you'll be the one with egg on your face because he's determined to fight like a martial artist so yes he will be doing all those goofy martial arts moves and yes you'll be proven wrong.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what sort of faints or spins he does, he still has to hit Floyd with his fists after them.

walshb · 18-08-2017 07:21AM

Floyd via KO-TKO

wonderfullife wrote: »

Everyone (including myself) is in agreement if Conor tries to box like a traditional boxer he'll get destroyed.

Are you gonna use this excuse when he gets destroyed?

"I only said he'd win if he fought the way I said?"

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 18-08-2017 08:34AM

Floyd via DQ

wonderfullife wrote: »

Floyd lost 8 times at a similar stage in his career to Conor.

The loss to Sitenkov and Duffy were not very dissimilar to the early defeats Floyd suffered as an amateur.

MMA doesn't have a rich history of separating amateur and professional competition, so you often get professional bouts that are amateur in all-but-name when it comes to skillsets on show.

If you are going to make comparison's at least make them believable. Floyd had 8 defeats in 91 fights at amateur level.

At a similar stage in his career to Conor, Floyd was 31-0 with world titles at 3 different weights. Conor is what 21-3? Which is more impressive? Nate Diaz though, super tough guy, very likeable and a hell of a MMA fighter.

Grasping at straws you are with the 8 losses on Mayweather's record, but whatever you need to tell yourself to keep the fantasy of Conor winning alive, go ahead.

maximoose · 18-08-2017 08:39AM

Floyd via DQ

Just saw on the advert for VUE liffey valley, they say the main event will be at 7.10am - that's hardly right is it?

Lukker- · 18-08-2017 08:43AM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

If you are going to make comparison's at least make them believable. Floyd had 8 defeats in 91 fights at amateur level.

At a similar stage in his career to Conor, Floyd was 31-0 with world titles at 3 different weights. Conor is what 21-3? Which is more impressive? Nate Diaz though, super tough guy, very likeable and a hell of a MMA fighter.

Grasping at straws you are with the 8 losses on Mayweather's record, but whatever you need to tell yourself to keep the fantasy of Conor winning alive, go ahead.

Boxing records are much different to MMA though, much harder to keep your donut in MMA. Broader skillset so much easier to take an L early in your career if some things aren't refined at that stage. Floyd was boxing over 10 years before he turned pro, he gets to pick his own fights. (Floyd says himself he would never take a fight if thought he might lose).

Apples to oranges IMO.

Tigger · 18-08-2017 08:45AM

Conor via DQ

maximoose wrote: »

Just saw on the advert for VUE liffey valley, they say the main event will be at 7.10am - that's hardly right is it?

i hope so?

bluemachaveli · 18-08-2017 08:46AM

Conor via DQ

maximoose wrote: »

Just saw on the advert for VUE liffey valley, they say the main event will be at 7.10am - that's hardly right is it?

Wouldn't be surprised to be honest. I'm guessing they will drag the absolute b****x out of it. I reckon we will be lucky to see the walkouts by 6am at the earliest, but I'm preparing myself for later than that.

colly10 · 18-08-2017 08:46AM

Floyd via KO-TKO

wonderfullife wrote: »

Go watch the footage of his open workout

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh6iaigSXBU

He'll try to land a flying punch at the start of the round and he'll land a flying punch at the start of the round are 2 very different things

If that's the "awkwardness" we're expecting it won't be a good night for him

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 18-08-2017 08:50AM

Floyd via DQ

Lukker- wrote: »

Boxing records are much different to MMA though, much harder to keep your donut in MMA. Broader skillset so much easier to take an L early in your career if some things aren't refined at that stage. Floyd was boxing over 10 years before he turned pro, he gets to pick his own fights. (Floyd says himself he would never take a fight if thought he might lose).

Apples to oranges IMO.

Floyd had his first professional fight at 19. So you are counting his time boxing as a 9 year old? You get to pick your own fights when you make it, early you fight who you have to and Floyd fought everyone.

Jon Jones has never lost a MMA fight been disqualified yes but never lost. Plus lets forget about McGregor's two early losses, he got beaten by Nate Diaz there is no excuses for that one.

walshb · 18-08-2017 09:11AM

Floyd via KO-TKO

Joeseph Balls wrote: »

walshb wrote: »

You probably answered this already but I skip some pages due to the ****e that's posted, but would you like to see Conor win?

A few weeks back I was kind of on the Conor side for the pure madness of it all..

I would have been one for espousing the idea that we cheer our own. Locally, county level, province and nationally.. I don't hold that belief like I used to. No problem saying my view here has changed.

I used to be quite irked the way Irish people would openly cheer English soccer teams over even Irish opposition. Now it doesn't overly bug me. Kind of see where they're coming from..

I don't follow Conor, know him or view him with high regard. I don't dislike him or view him negatively. I have never bought into the hype surrounded him.

Here I firmly believe he is heavily mismatched and chancing his arm. Knowing he hasn't a prayer.

To spite Floyd and his trying to spoof people and fool people into believing this is a sporting contest and legitimate boxing match I am 51-49 wanting Conor to upset him. But only for that reason. Not because he is Irish, at least not only because he is Irish.

Floyd will win, and for me I'd like him to win in dominating fashion..without Conor being allowed to suffer unnecessarily.

Make no mistake, plenty people claiming to be rooting for Conor but really hoping he gets pasted..

For the sport of boxing I'd like (and firmly believe) Floyd wins..I just hope he wins with effort and commitment and doesn't stink the joint out.

I am kind of fence sitting as really the winner makes no difference to me and no difference to the sport I love..

ThinkProgress · 18-08-2017 10:46AM

Floyd via DQ

colly10 wrote: »

He'll try to land a flying punch at the start of the round and he'll land a flying punch at the start of the round are 2 very different things

If that's the "awkwardness" we're expecting it won't be a good night for him

That's the huge farce about this fight...

Because it's such a huge event, people are trying to apply their (so-called) big brains to this "fight"... and try to predict what kind of clever strategy Conor will cook up to beat the great boxer!

People are guilty of treating this thing, like any other huge fight... Except this is NOT a real fight... There is no Conor masterplan... it doesn't exist... It's just all smoke and mirrors!! lol

All the hints at MMA tricks and "painting new pictures" etc etc... It's all just a load of BS to sell this freak-show to the blow ins and casuals... And to a certain extent, it is working. You only have to look at people like Wonder, to see this....

If you listen to the Conan satellite interview... Conor briefly mentions that Floyd's punches can't hurt him, and he is confident of walking him down, and KO'ing him!

I think Conor is arrogant/cocky enough, to actually believe this.... (and is simply devoid of any other "clever" ideas)

People hoping for some kind of genius crossover MMA inspired masterplan, are going to be HUGELY disappointed on the night... It's going to be a lot more basic and straight forward than that.

We're going to see Conor attempting to bully mayweather inside a boxing ring... He's going to play right into Floyd's hands (quite literally)... because frankly, he has no other clever gameplan to use!

It's basically going to be kamakaze stuff from Conor... And Floyd will effortlessly pick him apart... It really is going to be that basic and that straight forward.

All the guff around game plans, and clever strategies, is exactly that.... a load of old nonsense! :P

walshb · 18-08-2017 10:56AM

Floyd via KO-TKO

Mayweather on record saying "absolutely not" that the fight goes the distance...

Said it couple nights ago on a talk show...

Bieber said the opposite.

Who do we believe?

TheCatSpangler · 18-08-2017 11:05AM

wonderfullife wrote: »

Go watch the footage of his open workout

1:11:09 - Conor stands in wide southpaw and does a switch-jump into orthodox

1:28:05 - Conor starts in a wide orthodox stance and throws a switch-kick faint to end up in southpaw.

1:48:42 - Conor does a capoeira spin into southpaw.

The reason I believe he's going to throw all of these is because he's practising them I 100% expect to see all these techniques thrown. If you think they mean he gets KO'd then so be it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh6iaigSXBU

Man look at the sparring footage he put out for the second Diaz fight. Throwing savage looking spinning kicks again and again, practicing them, how many spinning kicks did he throw in that fight?

The Nal · 18-08-2017 11:08AM

TheCatSpangler wrote: »

Man look at the sparring footage he put out for the second Diaz fight. Throwing savage looking spinning kicks again and again, practicing them, how many spinning kicks did he throw in that fight?

Thats what gassed him in the first fight. Some of the spins etc above are comical. Turning your back on Mayweather? OK!

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 18-08-2017 11:50AM

Floyd via DQ

walshb wrote: »

Mayweather on record saying "absolutely not" that the fight goes the distance...

Said it couple nights ago on a talk show...

Bieber said the opposite.

Who do we believe?

I am of the opinion now that Mayweather will finish McGregor, pretty early as well. I think this battle of the ego's will be what makes him do it.

Lukker- · 18-08-2017 11:54AM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Floyd had his first professional fight at 19. So you are counting his time boxing as a 9 year old? You get to pick your own fights when you make it, early you fight who you have to and Floyd fought everyone.

Jon Jones has never lost a MMA fight been disqualified yes but never lost. Plus lets forget about McGregor's two early losses, he got beaten by Nate Diaz there is no excuses for that one.

Floyd was boxing from the age of 5, so yeah I am.

Jones is one of the few, and arguably the GOAT, but LHW isn't the most stacked division and never has been. His physical attributes at that weight are insane, no one comes close to his height and reach and when they did, Gustaffson almost beat him badly.

Conor's early losses were as a result of his BJJ being very unrefined. The Diaz loss he has less excuse for, but he did take the fight on extremely short notice, preparing for a fighter that was totally different in style and size to the opponent he was meant to be facing. Would Mayweather have done the same?

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 18-08-2017 12:01PM

Floyd via DQ

Lukker- wrote: »

Floyd was boxing from the age of 5, so yeah I am.

Jones is one of the few, and arguably the GOAT, but LHW isn't the most stacked division and never has been. His physical attributes at that weight are insane, no one comes close to his height and reach and when they did, Gustaffson almost beat him badly.

Conor's early losses were as a result of his BJJ being very unrefined. The Diaz loss he has less excuse for, but he did take the fight on extremely short notice, preparing for a fighter that was totally different in style and size to the opponent he was meant to be facing. Would Mayweather have done the same?

He has no excuse for the Diaz loss, Diaz wasnt preparing for a fight and took the fight on what 14 days notice? He couldnt handle Diaz's power and he gassed out. Despite being in a training camp preparing for a fight regardless of who it was against gassing shouldnt have been a problem.

ah so Jones is unbeaten because he's great one of the best ever, a lot like Floyd then.

marcus001 · 18-08-2017 12:43PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

He has no excuse for the Diaz loss, Diaz wasnt preparing for a fight and took the fight on what 14 days notice? He couldnt handle Diaz's power and he gassed out. Despite being in a training camp preparing for a fight regardless of who it was against gassing shouldnt have been a problem.

ah so Jones is unbeaten because he's great one of the best ever, a lot like Floyd then.

Blah blah no excuses. You need to put the Diaz fight in context.

Conor vastly underestimated Diaz going in to that fight. He just went in there with no strategy and in MMA you always need a strategy. He was cocky and arrogant and thought he could finish Diaz early. To be fair, people usually drop from the type of shots he was landing on Diaz, but like I said, his strategy should have taken Diaz' chin into account. He was also a good few pounds heavier than the weight he trained at. Imagine having 10lb weights strapped to you before stepping into an MMA fight. Anyone would have gassed if they threw as many punches and kicks and worked as hard as he did in the first round.

He made a lot of mistakes in his preparation for the fight and that caused it all to unravel. Don't expect him to make the same mistake twice. He won't overwork himself like he did in Diaz 1.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 18-08-2017 12:49PM

Floyd via DQ

marcus001 wrote: »

Blah blah no excuses. You need to put the Diaz fight in context.

Conor vastly underestimated Diaz going in to that fight. He just went in there with no strategy and in MMA you always need a strategy. He was cocky and arrogant and thought he could finish Diaz early. To be fair, people usually drop from the type of shots he was landing on Diaz, but like I said, his strategy should have taken Diaz' chin into account. He was also a good few pounds heavier than the weight he trained at. Imagine having 10lb weights strapped to you before stepping into an MMA fight. Anyone would have gassed if they threw as many punches and kicks and worked as hard as he did in the first round.

He made a lot of mistakes in his preparation for the fight and that caused it all to unravel. Don't expect him to make the same mistake twice. He won't overwork himself like he did in Diaz 1.

No excuse for losing to a very average Nate Diaz, who was over weight and not training for a fight.

marcus001 · 18-08-2017 12:57PM

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

No excuse for losing to a very average Nate Diaz, who was over weight and not training for a fight.

I don't know why you're talking about excuses. Are you a fan of MMA by any chance?

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman · 18-08-2017 01:05PM

Floyd via DQ

marcus001 wrote: »

I don't know why you're talking about excuses. Are you a fan of MMA by any chance?

I watch MMA , particularly McGregor and Jones. As a whole no I wouldn't tune in to every MMA event.

I'm not talking about excuses, you and Lukker before you are giving excuses as to why McGregor lost to Diaz.

I was merely mentioning their respective records as professionals ie Mayweather and McGregor as wonder was trying to suggest Mayweather's 8 losses as an amateur should count for something.

In truth it doesn't much matter as McGregor has never won a professional boxing match and Mayweather has never lost one.

Mellor · 18-08-2017 01:07PM

Draw

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I never said breaking down how you won/lost your fights, wasn't a legitimate form of analysis... that's not my point at all.

My point is that, when assessing someone's all-round fighting resume/abilities... you cannot just ignore submission losses, because "oh Conor is a stand-up fighter"... that's the BS part I disagree with!

Of course it makes perfect sense to break down the specifics of how you win/lose!

I think you are a touch confused about the point I was making in that post.

When you are assessing somebodies all-round abilities, you look at all their abilities. Of course, that goes without saying tbh. If you had said that, I wouldn't have disagreed. But obviously, is not what you actually said.

In the context of an all-round measure of fighting abilities, you look at striking, grappling, and everything else.
In the context of striking ability, grappling ability is virtually irrelevant. And in the context of a boxing match it's probably less relevant again.
I'd be surprised is anyone disagree with that tbh.

You said (twice!) that separating grappling losses was BS. Even when I referred to using it for analysis. Now you've rephrased is to "it makes perfect sense".
Some might call that shifting the goalposts. I'll leave it at QED. ')
As an aside, the whole "you must be confused, that's not what I meant" tactic is very transparent.

Actually, back then, Conor was in the very fortunate position of having Ireland's only black belt in BJJ as his personal coach and mentor! (And JK also had a great deal more spare time to devote solely to Conor too in those days)

The problem, is that Conor didn't really give the grappling arts his full attention/respect back then... something JK himself commented on a few years back.

Conor was very confident in his striking ability... so did not initially work as hard as he should have on his ground game! This is the real reason for those submission losses...

I don't disagree with that being the reason in the slightest. His own actions arent they.

Athoug, I'm not sure that it's true that JK had more time to devote solely to Conor back then. Why would he? Conor was one of the upcoming fighters, plenty of much more established guys on the team back then.
That said, I don't think any half decent coach would neglect any one who wanted to be helped.

So you can't really blame anyone except Conor himself, for suffering those early losses... or the submission loss to Diaz either! The knowledge was right there, at his fingertips if he wanted it. But that touch of arrogance in his personality, caused him to underestimate the ground game!

(for the record, I think he is still underestimating certain things to this day... but his striking is so good, it will often get him out of jail)

My point has nothing to do with assigning blame though. The fact the losses where his fault, as no bearing on it.

A fighters ability now, is his ability. Regardless of what his ability was. That;s not really a difficult concept.

Those Diaz fights are very important, in both respects. Diaz had success against Conor, both in striking AND on the ground. Obviously it's mostly just the stand-up aspects that are important for this fight... but Floyd will also have been interested in how Conor dealt with fatigue and adversity, particularly in that first fight. But there will be things to take from both those Diaz fights...

There are of course things to be taken from any fight. Most of the fight was contested on the feet. That's clearly usable evidence.
But I can't imagine of how his grappling ability specifically is relevant here.

But MMA markets itself as being all about well-rounded fighters... and in fact, the main criticism towards boxing, is that boxers are weak at everything else.

So why then, do so many people drool over a fighter like Demian Maia?? He is basically just a high level ground fighter, with almost nothing else in his arsenal... it kind of reeks of hypocrisy, and double standards!

Marketed as if it's all about rounded fighters? No it doesn't. You've just made to up to invent some pseudo hypocrisy tbh.
There are lots of fighters with unbalanced skill sets. In fact, where you only suggesting the other day that being a specialist in one area is better for MMA?

But even a biased MMA fighter will have a more rounded skilled set than somebody who is solely a striker. Boxers are kickboxers are weak in other areas. That's not a criticism just the nature of their sports. Same way that a runner doesn't need to know how to swim.

So many people are desperate for Maia to win that UFC belt... because he has such an impressive BJJ game. But if a high level striker comes along, and they are weak on the ground... everybody ridicules them and writes them off. (just look how Conor was ridiculed by all the Yanks, and everyone else, because he couldn't wrestle)

If somebody has zero grappling they get ridiculed. If somebody has zero striking they get ridiculed (eg Ronda).
The Conor thing was largely exaggerated after the Diaz loss though.

Might be wrong, but I definitely remember him pushing that program before the rematch...

I just checked, you're miles off tbh. It was released in November. The fight was august. So not sure where you got the idea that people were raving about his cardio.

He also claimed that he "outlasted the triathlete"... nonsense... Diaz finished the stronger of the two. Conor just paced himself a bit better, and didn't empty his tank as much trying to decapitate Nate in the early rounds!

Where was this supposed outlasting claim?

There was no significant cardio improvements from the 1st fight, from what I could see... And there won't be any big leaps in that department on Aug 26th either. Perhaps a small improvement, you never know, but he will still be at a major disadvantage regarding boxing conditioning against Floyd.

I'd imaging 154lbs vrs 170lbs will make a difference, even without physical improvements.
I do think that people overlook the difference round structure in the two sports a little. But as I said before, this comes down to skills long before xondition

I don't think it is boxing VS MMA... I think it's Floyd VS Conor... an elite boxer VS a novice boxer! It's that simple for me...

So you say...

the whole year inn · 18-08-2017 01:40PM

Floyd via DQ

Mellor wrote: »

I never said he didn't get beat. I'm well aware that he has list 3 times. Anything that I actually said that you disagree with? What facts am I blind to?
To be really clear, because you may have missed the point, I'm saying that the result of a fight 8 years ago, when he was a white belt and had just started the sport has no bearing on his ability today. Pointing out that he lost, doesn't refute what I'm saying.

And if pointing out that kind of flawed logic means I'm defending him, then I'm defending him. So what? What's your point?

That's precisely the point. Nobody holds those losses over Floyd, because that would be retarded. Those losses have no bearing on his abilities in the latter stages of his pro career. If he fought at too high a level too soon he may well have gotten an early losses. It would ruin his perfect record of course. But that's piece of paper, his actual ability today would be unchanged.
A record is an aid in accessing somebody, not the absolute measure of their ability.

Your making excuses for him, just because he was a white belt doesn't give him a pass on the loss.
The losses do have a bearing on his carrier, there on his record, and he him self came out with his mantra after the Diaz fight 'Fight and Learn' or what nonsense it was.

Mellor · 18-08-2017 01:44PM

Draw

ThinkProgress wrote: »

But those results DO matter... all wins and losses can be picked over by your opponent, and they can figure things out. They all paint a picture of you as a fighter!

I never suggested that wasn't the case

A fighters ability right now is his ability right now.
If a weightlifter is a world record holder today, that's his ability. Whether he was elite or not 8 years ago doesn't impact his strength or ability today. Simple enough concept

One important thing, that those losses show, is Conor's propensity for having a touch of arrogance in his preparation. By not heeding JK's advice early on, he showed that he had some misjudgement regarding the importance of the grappling arts... had he put some more work in early doors, he might not have suffered those losses!

Sure, if he had got stuck into the grappling hard from day one. He might not have suffer the first two losses. Instead he neglected it until after the Duffy loss.

Which goes back to my point. Say he had worked on his grappling earlier, and never lost in the early days. And assuming for arguments sake, that he was an equal fighter today. Should be rated as "better" today? Of course not.

Or Jon Jones. He has 1 loss on his record. Completely his fault. If the loss was overturned, and nothing else changed. Would be be rated better? Obviously not.

It's naive to think you can't learn things from watching someone's previous wins and losses!

It's idiotic to think that's what I was suggesting tbh.

That's not true... you can't say if someone's ability would be unchanged... Do you have a time machine?

I do think losses can change you as a fighter, and quite often those changes are not positive. (particularly mentally)

We're talking hypothetically. Obviously we cant say what would and wouldn't happen if history was changed. And I'm not suggesting wins/losses don't affect a fighter over time.

For the record. The loss to Duffy undoubtedly improved him as a fighter. As he only really started to work on his grappling after that loss.

The ability to come through tough moments, where other fighters might lose... that builds great character among other things. Like how I pointed out Jon Jones coming through some tough fights, were he might have lost... but he found a way to win. He showed his ability to "win AND learn"... those are some of the best lessons you can learn as a fighter!!

Out of curiosity what fight are you referring to with Jon Jones?

I'd consider his learning to be more around the cocaine bender, carcrash side of thinks.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman wrote: »

Jon Jones has never lost a MMA fight been disqualified yes but never lost.

23 wins, 1 loss

Regardless of how it happened. He has lost 1 fight.
Undefeated just doesn't have the same aura around it in MMA

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