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From 20 a day to 3:30...

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    annapr wrote: »
    Well done on the almost PB... that course sounds like it was designed by Father Ted!

    Aha! I don't know if he knew much about it... I'd say Dougal measured it, and Jack ran away with the original 13 mile marker...

    Or it could have been sabotage from Fr. Dick Byrne too...

    I was thinking that the other evening, it could definitely be rebranded as a Fr Ted half marathon. I'm pretty sure we ran through a fair amount of the filming locations, as well as the house itself. Might be on to something!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Didn't do anything on Monday this week... calves, quads, glutes and hip flexor were all competing for who could be the most annoying muscle group today. By evening time, the hip flexor were a clear winner by going into mini spasm at the most inopportune moments. Made a half hearted effort to give a stretch to all of them but I couldn't even muster the energy for a proper go at that. Proper fatigued I was.

    Tuesday brought a return to life and a handy 5 miler happened after work before the bus journey home happened. The other half had commandeered my vehicle today so I was travelling while snoozing today. It does have its perks, this public transport. 5 miles in 45 minutes or so. I got home then only to find one of the family pets hadn't returned home overnight. I was asked to go look around the place, which I duly did, after firing on my running gear. Never look a gift horse and all that... I didn't find our tabby, which was a plus as I hadn't fancied scraping her off the road anyway. In any event, she trotted in the door later that evening looking none the worse for wear and I got an extra 3 and a bit in for the day.

    Wednesday was club run day. After a long day on the road to Baile Atha Cliath for work and back, via McDonalds Roscrea for a snack, I met two of the lads for extras before the main event. Agreed a pace and kept it for two miles, and didn't for 3 miles. Met the main group then and all were agreed that the pace was to be pared back due to the hot evening. And then the same thing happened, fellas pushing the pace, others responding, fellas dropping off the pace and then getting a new lease of life, all leading to a situation resembling a slow tactical race. Anyway, 10 miles in 77 minutes, avg pace of 7:41. Much harder than I would have liked 4 days after the half marathon. A lesson in lack of discipline, as mentioned elsewhere.

    On Thursday I managed to sneak out of work in the mid afternoon for a 60 minute wander through some lesser travelled routes in the vicinity of my work. It was fair hot, so tried to keep the pace on the easy side and was largely successful. A very enjoyable mystery tour. Just over 7 miles in 60 minutes.

    Friday brought a return to night shift, so headed off early in the morning on the reverse of my interval loop, so nice and flat and easy. 75 minutes ticked along easily at an average of 8:38 pace to cover a total of 8.7 miles. I had bitten the bullet earlier in the week and made the appointment with the injury repair guy in the local gym, not exactly sure what his qualification is but he does have a bit of experience working with runners, plus I have two free sessions, and I have to get started on the quad issue somewhere. So he worked on me for half an hour, freeing out some (plenty) of knots and asking lots of uncomfortable questions about my S&C work, stretching, diet and other areas of my life where I am deficient, although maybe not as deficient as before.

    Got home from work Saturday morning and one of the youngers accompanied me to parkrun on bicycle. I only decided on the spur of the moment as the work on the legs the previous evening left them feeling fresh fresh fresh. He then did his own thing for the run and I did mine as I don't want parkrun to turn into a very competitive thing in the house, which it had been at the start. All normal with male bravado I guess, but probably not the best thing for long term interests. After a little wait we were off and I fell in with a lad after half a mile and we ended up chatting all the way around to come in second and third in just under 25 minutes, with the younger not far behind us. Well proud of his efforts. If he gets his pacing sorted he will be dangerous! Total of 5 and a bit miles.

    The club run on Sunday got relocated out to my neck of the woods which meant less travel time for me for a change. One of the down sides of being a member of a club in the place where I work is having to commute for the long runs I want to be part of. 4 of us headed off on the Great Southern Trail this morning for a nice, flat 12 mile out and back having the trail pretty much to ourselves, a little birdsong and everyone falling into a nice rhythm. The time passed quickly and easily until a pace injection towards the finish to get the lungs and heart working hard for the last 15/20 minutes. A nice solid run of 12 miles even in a lovely part of the world, in pretty much 1 hour and 40 minutes flat.

    A total of 51 miles for the week, at mostly easy pace, bar the Wednesday evening silliness. I'll take the same approach this week I think - 50 miles at easy enough pace. No need for anything else right now.

    I'm becoming very preoccupied with thoughts about marathon training. Reading lots, thinking lots.... getting fairly excited about tackling it. Starting to feel really good about where the running is going, about some better lifestyle choices I'm making (long road to go, but getting there) and just enjoying running again.... onwards....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    I hadn't really planned to go for a run on Monday, but I did. Just a handy 40 minutes of laps on grass, at a very easy (recovery) pace. The body felt reasonably good. Feeling a bit tired but I'm putting that down to work as much as anything else, as I can't remember the last time i had two days off back to back. I'm getting back to normal work-wise though. I also hit the gym again after sneakily disappearing for a month. I used the excuse of the half in Limerick to stop and never got going again, as I also prioritised running most days instead of the gym. Poor judgement.

    Crazy day in work Tuesday but was able to finish at a reasonable time so I pulled up on the way home and got an hour done en route before arrival at the home of the thumb. Been getting a bit of gip/ gyp/ jip lately about time out of the house so I need to tread carefully that my running doesn't become a problem in the house. That would never do! Got 7.3 miles done at 8:18pace. Nice solid run in the heat.

    Wednesday brought the club run, with the usual early loop of 5 miles and then a repeat at the agreed meeting time. The first loop tipped away at an easy pace. The second loop was a different story then and it became a progression run, with a couple of us pushing on up the hill and pushing on after getting a bit of recovery on the far side. I felt really good doing this, and it just goes to show how a week can make a difference... as it was pretty much the same run as last week, but the only difference was I didn't feel like pushing it last week. First 5 miles in 41ish minutes. Second 5 miles in 7:53, 7:34, 7:40, 6:51 and 6:29. I haven't seen a 6:29 mile in quite some time. It felt really really good to have such a strong finish. Anyway, 10 miles in 78 minutes.

    A handy 45 minutes followed on Thursday after work. I don't remember anything about it. An out and back route on autopilot. 5 and a bit miles at 8:54 pace.

    Working late then on Friday so managed to sneak an hour of gym work and a bit of a pool paddle into the morning. The gym work felt good and I need to hit the routine of 3 times per week before the DCM17 training starts. Had agreed to meet one of the lads for 10k around the town after work then. We agreed to just wander and we made the route up as we went along, which was good as we got off the pre-programmed routes for a change. Tipped along nice and steady and the form was good so it got bumped to an 8 miler. 8 miles in a shade under 67 minutes.

    No running early Saturday, and no parkrun. Well, no running parkrun. My turn to be run director this week. All went grand. I'm not the best run director in the world but i'll get there. I did most of the bits I was supposed to do and got the results out in an accurate, timely fashion. Score! Managed to recruit one more volunteer as well. That'll do, Ted, that'll do. Anyway, family outing to the gym and pool in the early afternoon so off to the weights for the third time this week. The plan just switches back and forth between Day One and Day Two so back to day one today. It has a balance of upper body, core and leg work so not overly strenuous on any particular part of the body. In saying that, I am feeling it in my glutes lately. I had one eye on ticking off a third 50 mile week in a row, so headed off out in the evening while dinner was on to click through 5.8 miles around the town. Nice steady pace and HR under control. I don't always watch it, but did today as I was conscious of the extra workload this week and the 10 miler in the hills in the morning. 5.8 miles in 50 odd minutes.

    Sunday morning then... Planned 10 mile club run into the hills and back, and then off to work after for the evening. Was feeling a bit lethargic over the coffee and weetabix, daydreaming and being jealous of everyone getting to run the Cork marathon today. Got over it on the drive and felt a bit better when the gang started to gather. The form was good with everyone and we ran away at a decent pace, maintaining the pace rather than the effort as we climbed. Got the breath back around the turn, and started to head for home. Again, myself and one of the other lads started to lift the pace as we descended, nothing major but it felt good. We hit level ground with a mile and a bit to go and pushed on another bit. Neck and neck with one of the faster lads for a bit but I just didn't have the engine or the power to go with him. Still, strong finish again after a tough run. I'll take it.

    Summary of the last while then. Still a non-smoker and feeling strong (4 and a bit months now). I'm making changes to the diet (mainly in terms of sweets, caffeine and water intake) that are helping with getting the weight down. I've dropped about 3-4 kilos in the last month (depends which scale I ask!). Getting solid miles in again. Not doing any major workouts at the moment, possibly having over-raced a little to get myself fit again. I'll try and commit to the gym being a regular part of the schedule once work settles in a couple of weeks. Its all starting to fall into place quite nicely. Thats the way it feels anyway, maybe not to the external observer. A good gang of lads in the club are after signing up for Dublin so there should be a good buzz around to train in, with plenty of options for long run buddies. I'm pretty sure I'm giving the Meno marathon plan a go.

    The race plan between here and Dublin is to give Portumna Half a good rattle this coming Saturday. I'm hoping to have learned a bit from two recent halfs and with a little taper of a week should be in a reasonable state of freshness to give sub 95 a good go, and possibly a bit better if a strong finish is there. I just want to try and control the first ten miles of the race at a pace that won't leave me banjaxed for the last 5k, and in shape to give a push even. The course is flat loops, so if the legs are good, there is a good chance. I'll do a flat 5 miler at the end of the month as well. A few of us from the club are heading out and its one of my softer PB's so would be nice to pick one up at the shorter distances before the marathon plan kicks off. The only races then are the ones on the plan. The date for the Charleville Half works so that's pencilled in. I just have to find a 10k around the end of July then. That particular mission has been unsuccessful as yet. Onwards....


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,137 ✭✭✭El Caballo


    Not sure when it's on this year but usually the run Killarney 10k is around the 20th July and is a pretty quick course if you don't get killed by a jaunting car on the way round. Might suit


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    I better try and get this log back on the road. I'm struggling to make a running related decision on something at the moment and having access to extra information in the shape of log/ diary entries would certainly be of benefit I think. I need to stay on top of regular updates, maybe more frequent is the way to go. We shall see.

    Anyway...

    Monday 5th June to Sunday 11th June

    Went to the gym with the family in tow early in the day. Bent down to pick up a dumbbell early in the session and felt a little pick in the lower back. Didn't think too much of it at the time and continued the session and on to the pool. Within a couple of hours I was on the couch in bits. Extremely sore for a few days, barely made it to work and popping the Difene. Didn't get back on the road till Sunday for a slow and tender 5k.

    Disappointed with this as I was looking forward to having a good crack off Portumna Half, with recent learnings from Limerick and Kilnaboy fresh in the head.


    Total weekly mileage - 3.2 miles


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday 12th June - Sunday 18th June

    Monday - no ill effects from yesterday, if anything recovery was accelerated. 60 minutes at 8:20 pace.

    Tuesday - tackled an interval session for the first time in a while. 9.6 miles including 8 X 3 minutes at 5k-10k pace. Hit all the paces but Strava notes suggest the shape and form might have been questionable!

    Wednesday - the now customary 2 X 5 mile laps with the lads. Hilly route and tried to keep the effort moderate enough. 10 miles in 8:00 pace

    Thursday - rest. Stayed away from the gym with a view to staying injury free

    Friday - 8 miler after work with the lads. 8:30 pace

    Saturday - parkrun. course PB by 40 seconds. Delighted considering I took the first half handy. 1 mile w/u and c/d and 5k in 21:55 (note - it's one of the slower parkruns around :-D)

    Sunday - joined up with a few of the lads on one of the other lads 'favourite' routes. Basically, one of the more challenging climbs around. You know it's tough when Allez, Allez, Allez is painted on the road halfway up! The group got spread out on the climb so the decision at the top was fall back or chase the guy in front. Game on! I only caught him because he stopped at the water stop so I'll never know, but I was gaining... 13.5 miles at 7:56 pace. Solid run considering the route.

    Total weekly mileage - 53 miles


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday 19th June - Sunday 25th June

    Monday - got out early today, despite the body protesting. It was quite warm at 9am. Tipped along for an hour at 9:20ish pace.

    Tuesday - tackled another interval session today. I'm not sure where I pulled it from but 20 X 200m off 1 minute recovery was the order of the day. Attempted floating recoveries but it was clear after the first few that was not going to be possible so the recovery became 40 seconds walk with 20 seconds jog. Times on the 200m session were consistent enough on the 43-45 second mark, all done by Garmin and solo so I'm happy enough. Guess the floating recoveries are for fitter people!

    Wednesday - 2 X 5 mile loops today. Very well behaved, 10 miles, 8:24 pace

    Thursday - ran early today for some reason. 60 minutes easy at 8:50 pace

    Friday - tackled a second interval session today with an eye on the 5 mile race next Friday. Cramming again! Did them on the way home from work. Plan was 5 X 1k at 5k pace off 90 seconds recovery. After having had a relatively pain free period with my quad niggle (had a couple of massage sessions at the local gym). I had to stop and stretch on interval 2 and also as part of the recovery after. Once I stretched it out it went from unmanageable discomfort to a manageable ache. Still present but bearable. Completed the session.

    Saturday - rest

    Sunday - on my lonesome for the long run this week as was aiming for the 2 hour mark. For once hadn't really pre-planned a route and just headed off on a make it up as I go along route. Took a road that I thought was a different road and ended up on a stupidly hard climb. Had to turn back. Went on a bit of a wander then and still ended up on some hills, but nowhere near as bad as the first one. Ended up being a quite enjoyable run despite the bad start. 14.5 miles at 8:20 pace. Long runs are different on your own! No negative feedback from the quad.

    Total mileage for the week - 54.6


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday 26th June - Sunday 2nd July

    Monday - managed to get out for a leisurely 60 minute wander around various riverbanks and trails around Limerick City. The paths less travelled shall we say. 7.2 miles in just a shade over an hour, 8:28 pace

    Tuesday - all easy running this week due to upcoming 5 mile blast on Friday, so another easy 60 minutes out the riverbank by UL today. 7.3 miles in bang on the hour.

    Wednesday - just the one loop for me with the club today so a handy 5 miles at 8:22 pace

    Thursday - same as yesterday with a few strides thrown to get a bit of leg turnover going for tomorrow night. 5 miles at 8:22 pace

    Friday - Bruff 5 mile road race. Got out nice and early after work and warmed up with a couple of lads I knew. A spin out to the 4 mile marker and back did the job. Plan A was PB and plan B was PB. This meant running quicker than 34:08 so target pace was around 6:45 and hopefully even a little quicker if the usual niggle played ball. Planned to 'ease into it', in as much as you can do in a short fast race. I didn't.... and after a mile or so that old familiar feeling arrived above my right knee. Had to stop to walk and do a few lunge style stretches before taking off again. Managed to get another mile and a half before having to do it again. This was mental torture as I was running strong but was being curtailed by the muscle flaring up. Was able to run strong for the remaining distance home to just sneak under the clock in 33:55. Splits were 6:39, 7:09, 7:00, 6:39 and 6:38. It's headwrecking. I know I've been needing to go to the physio to get it resolved but I seem to have a mental block about it. I think I know the news is bad, that it's not a standard injury, and I'm trying to avoid that. I know! I know! Anyway, PB achieved but not the right way. I'm in shape for much better but the clock doesn't lie I guess...

    Saturday - had a few PB beers and stayed at one of the lads houses so Limerick parkrun at handy pace this morning. 5k at 8:11 pace

    Sunday - spin on the Great Southern Trail with one of the lads. Really starting to like this trail and the ensuing benefits of less hardship on the legs. 16 miles clicked by in a nice rhythm at an 8:32 pace. Time passed quickly on a nice cool morning. Last run before marathon training proper kicks off tomorrow. Or Tuesday!

    Total miles for the week - 54.1


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭Kennyg71


    Well done on PB, and get yourself to physio, even just to put mind at ease, early intervention better than something chronic taking hold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday July 3rd to Sunday July 9th

    So.... marathon training. 18 weeks to go. Possibly should have started an 18 week plan last week to give myself a buffer week for holidays but I had the Bruff 5 miler lined up a long way out so decided against it. I gave quite a bit of thought to which marathon plan to use, with Hanson, Meno's plan and P&D up to 55 very much to the forefront of my mind. I bounced from one to the other but I think what finally led to my decision was this ongoing injury that I haven't got looked after (Note :- at the time of writing I just made contact with a physio that has been recommended by a few runners, so that ball is rolling!). Basically, I knew the less speedwork the better in terms of not aggravating it. This drew me in the direction of the higher mileage plan, which I felt was more manageable in terms of me working around the injury, as I didn't feel there would be much too issue in doing the longer, slower miles.

    Monday - rest

    Tuesday - 8 General Aerobic with strides. General Aerobic for me on this plan is keeping the HR under 153. Headed off on a long forgotten route from work. Its a lumpy one so a nice little tester. First few miles were a little high in effort, but not much. I don't recall any issue with the strides. I find it easier to do 30 second strides off 30 second recovery, as its easier to manage on the watch. 8.7 miles, 8:07 avg, avg HR 153

    Wednesday - 12 MLR - did 2 before meeting the lads for the 2 X 5 mile loop. Its hard to gauge exactly the effort from the splits due to the nature of the route, but I'm sure I tried to behave reasonably well. My MLR pace should be between 8:22 and 8:42 if I havent had a hard workout the day before. 12 miles, 8:13 pace, avg HR 152.

    Thursday - Going to do these runs with a buddy of mine who is trying to get out for a run more often. The recovery pace suits both us. Recovery will be done by HR, keeping it below 144. 5.1 miles, 10:16 pace, avg HR 128. Also passed 1,000 miles for the year on this run. Not too shabby considering I only did about 30 miles in all of January.

    Friday - Up and at 'em early today for a 9 mile GA run. I may get used of getting back in the habit of running early if the equilibrium of the household is to remain in harmony! Possibly a little quick in the second half of the run but the HR was in order. 9 miles, 8:20 pace, avg HR 150

    Saturday - Recovery 5 miles. 9:49 pace, avg HR is 134. These require as much effort as the other runs!

    Sunday - So the pace range for my long runs should be 8:35 to 9:20. Owing to some miscalculation at the outset of the plan I thought my LR range was 8:32 to 8:52. I also thought I just had to keep my pace in that window, rather than a controlled progression as suggested in the book. Anyway, back to the run:- The plan asked for 16 miles with 8 at MP. MP HR range is 150 - 167. PMP is 7:52 which is what I'm going to train for, which if executed correctly gives me a little bit of a cushion on the 3:30 goal. Predictors on shorter distances would have me notionally on a 3:20 finish time, but that can wait. The first 8 miles clicked by in the 8:15 to 8:25 range, and I recall having serious question marks about the MP pace section. However, once i started into the MP section, I was finding it tough but manageable. 7:50, 7:49, 7:59, 7:45, 7:46, 7:41, 7:39, 7:39. So obviosuly the last 3 were a little quicker than they should have been. I'm assuming a little bit of exuberance created that situation. HR remained at 161 or below for the MP section so I'm happy with that number.

    Summary for the week:- 56.4 miles. The runs were followed as set out in the plan, apart from hitting the correct paces. This will need work. I'm putting it down to a bit (a lot!) of excitement about starting marathon training proper.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Kennyg71 wrote: »
    Well done on PB, and get yourself to physio, even just to put mind at ease, early intervention better than something chronic taking hold.

    Thank you. I've contacted a guy this morning who was recommended by a runner who got a recommendation from other runners. So the first step has been made!

    Fingers crossed...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday July 10th to Sunday July 16th

    Monday - Rest

    Tuesday - 11 MLR. Up at 6am and straight out the door. Looking back at this run its clear I have had difficulty sticking to the recommended paces. 11.2 miles at 8:12 pace with an avg HR of 153. Hmm...

    Wednesday - 13 MLR. As above. Stupid pace of 8:06 average. There were a number of different causes. First couple of miles were a bit quick and then hit a few downhill miles where the pace quickened. Had just managed to get somebit of control when someone from the club caught up with me and fell alongside for a few miles. She was moving a bit quicker than me so it took a few miles to ask her to move along nicely. Met the lads then for the 5 mile loop and had to keep a little bit ahead of pace to stay with the group. An unholy mess in retrospect! 13 miles at 8:06 pace with avg HR of 158. Hmm....

    Thursday - Recovery 5 - 5 miles at 9:40 pace with avg HR of 132. See, I can behave.

    Friday - Lactate Threshold Session - 4 miles at LT pace (7:08) -3 mile warmup and into the 4 mile tempo section then. The usual, had to stop after a mile for a stretch and a walk. Once I got going again I was fine. Watched both pace and HR to make sure all was good, which it was. Pace splits were 7:15, 7:09, 7:07, 7:05. HR stayed in the 161 to 167 range which is the upper half of the range, but no higher, so all good. 9.1 mile total

    Saturday - Recovery 5 miles, 9:29 pace, avg HR 138

    Sunday - 15 mile long run on trail. Average pace was 8:29 which shows that I have made some effort to slow down, but not enough. HR in the aerobic range as well so effort levels were right.

    Total for the week - 58.7 miles. A pattern is emerging. I guess I knew that the paces were a little on the quick side, but not to the extent they were. I guess this is the benefit of regular logging. Both MLR's and the LR this week were at least 15 seconds quicker than they should have been. And then I'm wondering about my level of tiredness...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday July 17th to Sunday 22nd July

    Monday
    - supposed to be a rest day but an upcoming work spin to Dublin on Wednesday so I pulled the first two runs forward by a day. Well, more 12 hours to be exact. Plan was for 9 miles at General Aerobic pace with 10 strides. A few uphill miles in the middle and yesterday's efforts meant HR was a few beats too high. The pace was reasonably ok, at the upper end of the range. 10 X 30 sec strides off 30 sec recovery. 9.4 miles, 8:12 pace, avg HR 155

    Tuesday - home in West Clare today and got back there early in the evening. Headed out mid afternoon for a Tour de Parish. It's a rare treat to be travelling around the place I grew up on foot. Despite the tiredness caused by not having the rest day, and the heat of the day (18/19 degrees), I still clocked an average pace of 8:12 and an average pace of 157 with a serious climb in HR in the last 5k. I can blame the distraction caused by wandering around my home place, but stupidity is probably a more accurate reason. 14 miles in total.

    Wednesday - a well needed rest day.

    Thursday - 5 mile recovery run. 9:45 pace and an average HR of 132. At least I'm doing these runs right I guess.

    Friday - plan was 11 miles. Met up with a couple of the lads. One had to change to 8 miles at the last minute, so myself and the other guy had agreed to do an out and back 8 miler to suit and then top up with a small loop at the end. This was a real pleasant run in pouring rain and the chat was good. Time went by in a blink. But...somewhere along the way, the 3 mile loop became a 5 mile loop. And guess what, the pace was way too quick. I'm actually starting to feel quite idiotic the more I detail the running I've been doing over the last couple of months. 13.1 miles, 7:53 pace, avg HR 155.

    Saturday - 5 recovery miles, 9:24 pace, avg HR 134

    Sunday - one of the lads was only up for 15 miles so did a 3 mile loop first and off we headed on an out and back route along the river in Limerick. Ultra flat. Kept a good eye on pace today for a change. 18.3 miles, 8:38 pace, avg HR 145.

    Total weekly miles - 65.2 miles. I don't know what to say. Apart from Sunday, that week just reads like a recipe for self destruction. Stupidity abounds. No comment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday 23rd July to Sunday 30th July

    Monday - rest

    Tuesday - LT session. Plan was 2.5 mile warmup, followed by 5 miles at 7:08 pace, and 1.5 cool down. The now usual thing happened when the LT pace section began, quad muscle flared up after about a mile. Stopped and stretched for about a minute. Had to repeat after another 1.5 miles. Average pace (while moving!) was 7:05 and average HR was 168. Onwards

    Wednesday - on the road to Dublin for the holiday flights so up super early to get the MLR in. It was perfect weather to remind me how happy I was to be heading for the sunshine, wind and rain! 14 miles was the plan, and 14 miles got done, despite thoughts of pulling out a couple of times. Average pace was 8:21 and average HR was 154. Hadn't the best nights sleep and nearly bailed out so a good one in the 'mental strength' bank.

    Thursday - late arrival and a few beers meant getting out later than intended. 10am and temperatures were already mid 20's. Kept the pace as easy as I could and tipped along. Lost control of the HR after halfway. Hot hot hot! 5.3 miles in 9:19 pace, avg HR 148. At this point the plan was to keep the plan as precribed as much as possible.

    Friday - plan said 12, but the brain said 10 would do. Headed off in the opposite direction to yesterday. Found the promenade, and trotted along, turning at the 5 mile mark and retracing my steps. 10 miles, 9:04 pace, avg HR 153

    Saturday - a bit of guilt about the missed miles yesterday so was aiming for 6 miles. Headed north today and found a gravel road. Surrounded by cactus, lizards and volcanic rock for a few miles sure had an eerie feeling. I did stop a couple of times for the view. Been getting out early mornings in order to help me deal with the heat. It's still low 20's at 8am but a little bit of extra breeze does help. 6.5 miles, 9:20 pace, avg HR 142.

    Sunday - the plan had been to have a bit of a go at 15 miles. Alarm went off, but immmediately upon waking knew no long run was happening today, so alarm was cancelled and back to sleep. Woke much later pissed off with myself so took off for an angry 5 miler. A let rip run is all well and good back home, but when it's noon in Gran Canaria and it's 30 odd degrees it's not the best idea. 5.1 miles, 8:15 pace, avg HR was only 154 despite the temper! Although I did stop for a couple of minutes to watch a local soccer match...

    Summary:- total mileage was 50.3. So a missed long run, but did reasonably well at meeting the plan head on, despite the diet and the beer intake hitting holiday levels pretty quickly. I do think next week may not be pretty....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday 31st July to Sunday 6th August

    Monday - tried to make up for the missed long run somewhat by doing an 8 miler. Had no route planned but had a notion of doing some beach running if the surface proved suitable. Found the beach at Playa del Ingles and the section nearest the water was solid enough so headed south. All was going well until I turned the southern tip of the beach and no solid sand could be found. So the choice was turn back and run 2 extra easy miles or persevere and run 1 soft sand mile. Well of course I didn't pick the easy choice or the extra mile did I. That was a really tough mile. Felt like I was going backward at times. Otherwise, a very enjoyable run and route. 8.1 miles, pace 9:00 and avg HR was 144

    Tuesday - a whiskey induced (1 litre of Jim Beam is only €17!!) sleep in so a hungover 5 miles happened at 11am. 5.2 miles, 8:48 pace, 149 HR

    Wednesday - leaving today and had plans for a nice 10 miler along the other promenade. A longer version of the run I did on the first day. I had seen a possible route on Strava but about 3.5/4 miles it became apparent that route was ran while the tide was out. Had to turn back and re-rerouted, but also cut the run short. 8.6. Miles, 8:41 pace, 146 HR. That's the last of the holiday running. Disappointed I didn't stick to the plan, but not much. Ran every day and kept the effort at appropriate levels I think.

    Thursday - fairly wrecked after a long day travelling yesterday, short bad sleep and then unpacking and laundry and all the other nasty post holiday jobs. Was looking forward to running in low temperatures and imagined I would now be bounding along due to the lack of humidity, but it wasn't to be. Felt slow and sluggish. 5.5 miles, 8:20 pace, 147 HR

    Friday - met one of the lads for a spin on the local trail. Ran to and from the agreed meeting point for the 10 mile run. Effort levels were just right and a good catch up after the holidays. 12.5 miles at 8:30 pace, 145 HR

    Saturday - pre parkrun recovery run of 4 miles. 9:21 pace, 137 HR. Run Director duties followed. Barcode scanner failed. Lucky we have small numbers!!

    Sunday - a group run was organised for a 15 miler on the back roads around Limerick City. We set off on a damp morning and tipped along at a nice relaxed pace, chats and the crack was good. The pace was controlled and looking back on the data afterwards, was executed exactly as it was supposed to be. 15 miles, 8:40 pace, 143 HR. Time passed in a blink today. Not sure if it will be as easy find company for next weeks 21 miler....

    Summary for the week:- total of 59 miles. Back on plan after this week. The last two weeks have been a bit mixed because of the holidays. Well rested now though so feel like giving it a go again. I had debated dropping to the up to 55 P&D plan, as I had been thinking on holiday about the level of tiredness and also the soreness I had been feeling in my muscles. I have gotten some feedback in both directions, and what I have decided to do is persevere for at least another week. The coming week looks tough, but the three weeks after that look manageable (by comparison!) It's plainly obvious after doing the 'catch up' in the log that the paces of my runs needs to change, and that this in itself would be the main culprit for the more negative effects of training.

    The only session I regret missing is the 18 miles with 10 miles at MP. Other than that, I'm happy I now know what I need to correct. I guess you could argue that I should have known before now. You would be right. I should have. Let's see how next week goes. I'll try and behave myself.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday 7th August

    Rest. Nothing at all. Back to work tomorrow after two and a half weeks off so an excess amount of comfort food and beer was had. Back to water and good diet tomorrow.

    Tuesday 8th August

    A 10 mile run with 5 miles at Lactate Threshold as described in the book. In hindsight I really should have got up early and got it done. First day back at work so the headspace wasn't the best all day and decided to do the workout on the way home. It was quite warm at the time (3pm approx) so I should have guessed this would interfere. In an attempt to ensure all muscle groups were warmed up, but one in particular, I decided to change the format slightly. Previously I would have split the additional miles between warmup and cool down. Today I decided to do most of these before the LT section, so 4 E, 5 LT and 1 E.

    First 4 miles went fine, weather felt warm but not excessively so, form warmup pace anyway. The target paces for these are 7:08 to 7:15 and the target HR range is 156 - 173. I never really settled into the right pace. Looking back at the data after the pace on mile 1 was spot on, and the effort felt right. I had to stop and stretch shortly after the first mile finished, 20 seconds or so. Took off again and it was here the problems arose. The second mile clocked in way too quick, 6:52 and the effort levels were beginning to show with the HR at the very top end of what it should be. I did try and make a conscious effort to slow down the pace but the watch kept telling me I needed to slow down more. I even took two mini walks of 5-10 seconds to try and bring the HR and pace down a bit. I do think the watch has a mind of its own because the data gives me splits of 7:04, 7:23 and 7:19 for miles 3, 4 and 5. So all in all, managed to keep a lid on the injury, overcooked mile 2 and in an effort to rectify this undercooked miles 3-5.

    I think one of the issues (apart from the crazy watch) is that I'm not doing any other speedwork so I'm finding it hard to dial into the faster paces when needed. I possibly could benefit from slowing down the first 1 or 2 miles of the LT session instead of trying to hit the upper end of the range immediately. I have another one coming up soon so a change to rectify mistakes. A bit disheartened after that, but as one of the lads said on Strava, not all is lost, some benefit was gotten from the workout - I'm just not sure what.

    10 miles - 5 mile LT section (avg pace 7:10, avg HR 172) - so on a superficial level I nailed it, but the background story outlines a different version.

    If I'm honest the last 10 days weren't the best prep for yesterday. Holiday mode does not lend itself to executing good workouts.

    Anyway, tomorrow - Wednesday - plan says 14 mile MLR. it's the day after a tough workout so I'm going to target a pace range of 9:12 increasing to 8:42, which is the slower half of the range. I might set up the watch with some alarms to help. Operation Slowdown is in motion


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Wednesday 9th August

    Plan was 14 miles MLR. Set up the watch as follows, with a view to behaving myself:- 3 miles at 8:52 to 9:12 pace, 3 miles at 8:42 to 9:02, 3 miles at 8:32 to 8:52, 3 miles at 8:22 to 8:42 and the balance at any pace. This seemed like a great idea in the morning, given my recent history of running faster than this. Met one of the lads after work after setting up a nice route on Strava around the back roads of Limerick, a little lumpy on the first half but flattened out then. 19/20 degrees was showing on the car temperature gauge but we felt it should be manageable enough. Headed off and made a fair effort to keep it slow, but only managed to slow it to an average of 8:48 for the 3 mile section so the watch kept beeping and beeping and beeping. Was very close to just resetting the workout and going as normal. Very annoying to be running like this, but obviously it did its job (eventually!). Anyway, after the first 4/5 miles it became clear the few hills and the temperature, along with the effort of yesterdays workout for me, were taking their toll. The remainder of the run was just a slog, despite slowing down and the route flattening out. It was just one of those tough runs where nothing either of the two of us did could distract us from the hardship. So... instead of keeping the first half slow and speeding up towards the end, today I managed to start out the run at a slow pace and do the second half even slower! Not a bad thing to do on a once off I suppose, but wouldn't want to be repeating that pattern too many times. Paces for the sections were:- 8:47, 8:47, 8:41, 8:46 and a 4.6 mile section averaging 9:07. The first section only clocking in at 0.9 miles for some reason. Another watch malfunction. Might need to go shopping!

    Mixed feelings about the run. Obviously I'm very happy with the overall average pace of the run. Not the happiest that it wasn't a progression of pace, but the opposite. Found it a good bit tougher than expected, probably the toughest 2 hour-ish run since starting the plan.
    14 miles, 8:52 pace, avg HR 144

    Thursday 10th August

    Very strange nights sleep. I think I had two different dreams where I dreamed I was running my recovery run. Needless to say, when I woke and found out I still had to run I was none too happy. Some residual soreness in both quads this morning. Little bit of stretching and out the door. Headed off to the rugby pitch around the corner to get the miles done, with a view to doing much more of my recovery runs on the softer surface. 5 miles clicked by easily enough, assisted by a few Paddy Casey songs followed by the soundtrack from O' Brother Where Art Thou. Happy daze. Normally a recovery run would move the soreness on, not today! 5 miles, 9:43 pace, avg HR 137


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    I have a strong dislike for the LT runs in this plan. They are measured in miles, but take no account to the pace someone is running them. I believe they max out at 7 miles. Which for someone who is running LT at 5 min per mile is 35 mins. Someone who is running LT at 7 mins per mile is 49 mins.

    Obviously 49 mins @ LT is a much tougher session than 35 mins. I think these should be converted to mins and I don't think they should go over 40 mins. We had a discussion on this before as the 7 miles one is a crazy tough session for the more recreational runner.

    I notice in the new book "Faster Road Running" which focuses on 5k to HM, all the LT are time based rather than distance based which I think is much better.

    Have a read of the few posts from here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056976248&page=60

    Just some food for thought.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    adrian522 wrote: »
    I have a strong dislike for the LT runs in this plan. They are measured in miles, but take no account to the pace someone is running them. I believe they max out at 7 miles. Which for someone who is running LT at 5 min per mile is 35 mins. Someone who is running LT at 7 mins per mile is 49 mins.

    Obviously 49 mins @ LT is a much tougher session than 35 mins. I think these should be converted to mins and I don't think they should go over 40 mins. We had a discussion on this before as the 7 miles one is a crazy tough session for the more recreational runner.

    I notice in the new book "Faster Road Running" which focuses on 5k to HM, all the LT are time based rather than distance based which I think is much better.

    Have a read of the few posts from here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056976248&page=60

    Just some food for thought.

    They are extremely tough I find. Obviously I'm compromised because I'm flaring up an injury every time I attempt one, but executing them has proven challenging. They appear to be the thing that sticks out for everybody as well asanytime you read feedback from someone who has done the plans, its the LT sessions they remember. So I've three done, and two left. One is 11 miles with 6 at LT, and the other is 12 with 7 at LT.

    Useful stuff to read. As a matter of interest, what would your thoughts be on the difference between a session of 6 miles tempo versus 2 X 20 mins tempo off 3 or 5 mins recovery? Is the variance in terms of the quality of the session negligible, or is there more to it than that? I personally feel if the chunks at tempo pace were smaller, it wouldn't appear as challenging, for a similar outcome? I really find it hard to hit and hold tempo pace outside of a race environment.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭hot buttered scones


    adrian522 wrote: »
    I have a strong dislike for the LT runs in this plan. They are measured in miles, but take no account to the pace someone is running them. I believe they max out at 7 miles. Which for someone who is running LT at 5 min per mile is 35 mins. Someone who is running LT at 7 mins per mile is 49 mins.

    Obviously 49 mins @ LT is a much tougher session than 35 mins. I think these should be converted to mins and I don't think they should go over 40 mins. We had a discussion on this before as the 7 miles one is a crazy tough session for the more recreational runner.

    I notice in the new book "Faster Road Running" which focuses on 5k to HM, all the LT are time based rather than distance based which I think is much better.

    Have a read of the few posts from here:

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056976248&page=60

    Just some food for thought.

    I already have a sense of dread and foreboding about the 11 with 7@LT. It was horrible last year and I remember a discussion where a lot of people said they just couldn't do it - a lot of faster people than me. I'll probably still give it a lash though, but I'm left wondering would you be better off doing something like 3x2 at HMP with 1 or 2 minutes jogged recoveries. 7 miles at LT pace on your own for someone in the 6:50 to 7:00 range feels like race effort tbh.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭hot buttered scones


    JohnDozer wrote: »
    Wednesday 9th August

    Plan was 14 miles MLR. Set up the watch as follows, with a view to behaving myself:- 3 miles at 8:52 to 9:12 pace, 3 miles at 8:42 to 9:02, 3 miles at 8:32 to 8:52, 3 miles at 8:22 to 8:42 and the balance at any pace. This seemed like a great idea in the morning, given my recent history of running faster than this. Met one of the lads after work after setting up a nice route on Strava around the back roads of Limerick, a little lumpy on the first half but flattened out then. 19/20 degrees was showing on the car temperature gauge but we felt it should be manageable enough. Headed off and made a fair effort to keep it slow, but only managed to slow it to an average of 8:48 for the 3 mile section so the watch kept beeping and beeping and beeping. Was very close to just resetting the workout and going as normal. Very annoying to be running like this, but obviously it did its job (eventually!). Anyway, after the first 4/5 miles it became clear the few hills and the temperature, along with the effort of yesterdays workout for me, were taking their toll. The remainder of the run was just a slog, despite slowing down and the route flattening out. It was just one of those tough runs where nothing either of the two of us did could distract us from the hardship. So... instead of keeping the first half slow and speeding up towards the end, today I managed to start out the run at a slow pace and do the second half even slower! Not a bad thing to do on a once off I suppose, but wouldn't want to be repeating that pattern too many times. Paces for the sections were:- 8:47, 8:47, 8:41, 8:46 and a 4.6 mile section averaging 9:07. The first section only clocking in at 0.9 miles for some reason. Another watch malfunction. Might need to go shopping!

    Mixed feelings about the run. Obviously I'm very happy with the overall average pace of the run. Not the happiest that it wasn't a progression of pace, but the opposite. Found it a good bit tougher than expected, probably the toughest 2 hour-ish run since starting the plan.
    14 miles, 8:52 pace, avg HR 144

    Thursday 10th August

    Very strange nights sleep. I think I had two different dreams where I dreamed I was running my recovery run. Needless to say, when I woke and found out I still had to run I was none too happy. Some residual soreness in both quads this morning. Little bit of stretching and out the door. Headed off to the rugby pitch around the corner to get the miles done, with a view to doing much more of my recovery runs on the softer surface. 5 miles clicked by easily enough, assisted by a few Paddy Casey songs followed by the soundtrack from O' Brother Where Art Thou. Happy daze. Normally a recovery run would move the soreness on, not today! 5 miles, 9:43 pace, avg HR 137

    I posted this over on the improvers thread:
    I'm probably repeating what everyone else has said - the book says long runs are to start out at MP+20% and to gradually build the pace so that you finish out the last few miles @MP + 10%. He also says that long runs a race (3 tune up races in the plan) should be started off like a recovery run and if you loosen up then finish it out at MP+15% to 20%. The long run is really your second session of the week (or your 3rd if you count the medium long run).

    So if I was doing a 14 mile MLR after a tough session I'd be starting off at recovery pace and finishing out the slower end of long run pace (in theory ;) )


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 16,395 Mod ✭✭✭✭adrian522


    I already have a sense of dread and foreboding about the 11 with 7@LT. It was horrible last year and I remember a discussion where a lot of people said they just couldn't do it - a lot of faster people than me. I'll probably still give it a lash though, but I'm left wondering would you be better off doing something like 3x2 at HMP with 1 or 2 minutes jogged recoveries. 7 miles at LT pace on your own for someone in the 6:50 to 7:00 range feels like race effort tbh.

    I think you would be much better off converting that to 11 Miles with 40 mins @ LT (10 Mile to Half Marathon Pace), which is essentially what I did last night on the Half Marathon program.

    I think you'll get as much out of that with much better recovery and less risk of injury than flogging yourself running for close to 50 mins at 1 hour race pace.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    I posted this over on the improvers thread:



    So if I was doing a 14 mile MLR after a tough session I'd be starting off at recovery pace and finishing out the slower end of long run pace (in theory ;) )

    So after all my hard work and preparation yesterday in slowing down the pace of my run, you tell me I should slow down some more!?!? :eek: ah jaysus! :D anyway, I know. I get it. It's just going to take a bit more work to get there. Not the easiest thing to do is slow below what feels natural... I also think the recovery may be a little slower than it should be. Strava has recovery pace at below 9:14.

    Anyway, I think after today the message from everyone is sinking in. I should drop to the next plan down. If I'm allowed stay running as I am after physio tomorrow, I think I will. The big plan can wait for another time. Hopefully I can learn to trust the training between here and October! I'll need to learn to live without a 21 and 22 miler as well. This old body will thank me for it I guess...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭hot buttered scones


    JohnDozer wrote: »
    So after all my hard work and preparation yesterday in slowing down the pace of my run, you tell me I should slow down some more!?!? :eek: ah jaysus! :D anyway, I know. I get it. It's just going to take a bit more work to get there. Not the easiest thing to do is slow below what feels natural... I also think the recovery may be a little slower than it should be. Strava has recovery pace at below 9:14.

    Anyway, I think after today the message from everyone is sinking in. I should drop to the next plan down. If I'm allowed stay running as I am after physio tomorrow, I think I will. The big plan can wait for another time. Hopefully I can learn to trust the training between here and October! I'll need to learn to live without a 21 and 22 miler as well. This old body will thank me for it I guess...

    I'd be doing well to heed my own advice at the best of times too tbh.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Friday 11th August 2017

    So... despite sulking for most of yesterday evening, I did eventually make the right decision and pulled the plug on the P&D 70 plan. The input from everyone is much appreciated. I guess sometimes its just hard to admit when you're wrong!! :-D I think I've heard pretty good rationale for the P&D 55 plan being entirely sufficient for what I want to achieve in October and anything else is just overkill. I got off the plan straight away, as if I left it I'd probably manage to convince myself somehow to stick with it. In any event, this is all predicated on being allowed continue on the plan by the physio today.

    So in an effort to transition from one plan into another, an opportunity presented itself. As I mentioned somewhere in the log over the last couple of days, I did regret missing the 18 miles with 10 @ MP due to holidays. So now I'm going to drop that in for Sunday instead of the 21 miler that was already there. I was down for an 11 mile MLR today but decided there was little to be gained from that, so I pulled the General Aerobic run with strides forward from the Saturday to today, and plopped a 5 mile recovery into Saturday. The P&D55 starts on Monday then, well, starts running on Tuesday.

    I read through the relevant pages last night and did a recalculation of paces last night just to make sure everything was in order, and made a commitment to continue to try and hit the right paces on all runs.

    So the pace ranges now look like this:-

    Recovery 9:12 to 10:12 HR <144
    General Aerobic 9:02 to 9:32 HR <153
    Long Run 8:32 to 9:32 HR 141 - 160
    MLR 8:22 to 9:12
    MP 7:52 HR 150 - 167
    LT 7:08 - 7:20 HR 156 - 173

    Any comments or observations on paces are most welcome!

    Anyway, planning aside, I had to run before work today as I don't think I'll be running post physio so awake at 6am and pretty much straight out the door (only two snoozes!). Legs still felt a little heavy and stiff after Wednesdays MLR but was able to tip away at pretty close to the required pace for the first 5 miles - 9:18, 8:54, 8:51, 8:54, 8:54. After the 5 mile beep, launched into the 10 strides, 30 seconds each. Tried to focus on form as much as possible, slightly forward lean and try to avoid a heel-strike with a good push off. My form does go when tiredness kicks in so I guess I should practice good form as often as possible. Finished the strides in good shape and eased it home for the last mile or so to clock 7 miles for the morning. 7 miles, 8:40 pace, avg HR 143.

    Physio later... about time too... apprehensive


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Saturday 12th August

    Well after a monster 90 minute session with the physio yesterday, I'm still not really much the wiser in relation to the 'injury'. We did have a good discussion about shoes, as he had asked me to bring a couple of pairs with me to have a look. He pretty much said he didn't like the look of any of my shoes, and queried as to whether any of them were actually neutral shoes at all! I'm sure adidas and Saucony may be interested in his views :-D Anyway, follow up session required. He thinks there may be an issue of restricted blood flow to the sheath covering the 'vastus medialus'. That was a new one on me! He did some work on the area using both hands and some other tool that I hadn't seen before, kind of like a curved window cleaner, apparently used to improve blood flow. We had a long discussion about HR training while all this was happening. So he then sent me on my way to continue as I am and back to him in two weeks.

    So I decided to have a bit of a lie in and incorporate the parkrun into my recovery run. Took a 2 mile route to get there and did the parkrun itself in about 30 minutes. Our parkrun ambassador for the area was about with a crew from his own parkrun so there was a good buzz around after. Was well cooled down after and topped up with a handy one mile jog home. 6.3 mile total at around 9:40 pace, avg HR 142.

    Sunday 13th August

    Feeling reasonably well rested after a few easy days so had planned to get up early is and get out the door in fasted state. I did bring some salt chews and two small bottles of electrolyte drink. Had the watch set up to run 8 miles at long run pace and 10 miles at marathon pace. More about this later! Headed off out the door around 7am and headed for the nice gravel surface of the old railway. Nice cool morning, probably helped by the singlet as well! Hadn't really a plan for the early miles other than take it nice and handy. First mile clocked in at 9:30 ish so I decided to try and keep a 10 second progression for these miles. First three clocked in at 9:20ish, 9:10ish and I did start to notice I was working unusually hard to maintain 9:00 pace with the HR up around the top of the aerobic range. What I now know w is that the way I set up the watch doesn't give me mile splits, just an average for the lap which is 8 miles long. This in effect meant I was now running 8 minute miles or thereabouts thinking I was keeping a 9:00 pace average. I've no excuse for this as something similar happened a few weeks back. I should have copped on to the additional effort sooner but just put it down to the lack of breakfast!

    Took on some of chews and some of the electrolyte in mile 7 as I figured trying to get of stuff on board at MP might be tricky. I better practise though! The start of the MP section arrived soon enough and off I took trying to keep 7:52 pace for 10 miles. I had the watch set up for 7:35 to 8:02 which was a generous enough range. Had a do an about turn after only a mile as my timing coincided with a large herd of cattle crossing the trail for their morning shift. Just did an out and back for a bit but still had to hop two gates when I came back. At least my agricultural upbringing didn't go to waste! The first couple of miles clicked off at around 7:43 pace. Despite an effort to slow it down a bit, I ran into the same difficulty as before, having no feedback in terms of pace per mile. I tipped along anyway, keeping what I felt was an appropriate effort with the needle on the watch stuck at 7:43, with the effort levels gradually rising. Took on a few more chews and some drink at around the 15 mile mark and kept moving. I had earlier switched over to the HR monitor on the watch as the pace was telling me nothing other than the average pace being kept steady. The recommended HR range in the P&D book was from 150 - 167. I mostly managed to keep it at 161 or below but the last two miles of the MP section, it really started to drift and even went slightly over the upper limit. I even got a few bangs in the left calf that suggested a cramp wasn't too far away. I was glad to hit 18 miles and take a well deserved walk home for a few hundred meters. Got some fluids in pretty much straight away but the stomach didn't feel up to solids apart from a banana and a few breakfast biscuits. Did a good job with getting the protein, water and electrolytes back into me I think.

    So... overall I think there is more positives than negatives. OK, I messed up the paces again but this wasn't deliberate. This created a situation that I inadvertently got a much tougher workout than intended. I'm happy with the MP section when I look back at the splits (7:48, 7:37, 7:43, 7:45, 7:42, 7:37, 7:36, 7:20,7:30, 7:23). I'm very happy with the run overall that I did it in a fasted state. I know it's probably better to do this on the longer slower runs for maximum benefit, but no harm done hopefully. Total of 18 miles, 8:01 pace, 151 avg HR

    61.2 miles for the week. Good MP long run, tough MLR and a disappointing LT session. I've changed to a less demanding plan so hopefully should reap the rewards of that soon. Week 8 of P&D next week with another LT session.... Lovely!!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Monday 14th August

    Rest.

    Thinking about yesterday's run a bit more today. I'm unsure whether to be pleased with it or not. Obviously it feels good to be able to put together a few miles at the end of a run that are a good bit quicker than MP, especially after finding out some of the easy miles were a bit quick too. However, it's another workout that's done at a different pace or intensity than was prescribed. This one is especially annoying considering why it happens. Each week that passes allows less time to learn from these mistakes and rectify them.

    Tuesday 15th August

    7 miles Recovery with 6 x 30 second strides was the plan. That's what got done. Up early and out the door fasted. Headed for the local park where the local running club have a path worn out through the grass. I'll try and do as many of the recovery runs on grass as I can. Coupled with doing the long runs on trail my legs should thank me for it. The park was busy enough despite the early hour, and greetings were exchanged with a few familiar faces. Tipped along using HR as the guide. The book says below 144 but ideally I'd like to get used of getting it as low as possible. Took a few wrong turns on the first lap but found the optimal route quickly enough. It appears to be close enough to a mile so not an excessive amount of laps, although I am getting more used of them. Legs appear to be in good shape after Sunday. Got back out on the road and got the strides done. Left a minute between strides today instead of the usual 30 seconds so was able to focus on the breathing more having got better recovery time. 7.5 miles, 9:23 pace and an average HR of 138.

    12 MLR tomorrow. Feeling well rested. The numbers on Strava's Fitness and Fatigue graph suggest the same. So I might go for a hilly run at the faster end of the range tomorrow and slow Sundays 20 miler right down. Maybe...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Wednesday 16th August

    Straightforward enough MLR on the club 5 mile loop apart from a couple of pauses to pick up and drop off other lads. Did a 1 mile out and 1 mile back with one of the lads and then picked up another guy for the first loop. We hadn't met him since his recent-ish Ironman exploits so settled into the easy pace, easy listening role and the time passed quickly with very little checking of the watch. The pace felt just right although the sweat was pouring off me due to the humidity. Picked up one potential little nugget of wisdom from the chat, it seems carrying a few Rennie's might be useful if the stomach got a bit upset from the gels. Reassembled at the meeting point after 7 miles and picked up one more after guzzling some water. The pace stayed nice and steady and just didn't feel like increasing it at all. The climb on both loops made sure there was an equal amount of decent effort and gentle freewheel each time around. 12 miles, 8:45 pace, avg HR 150.

    Thursday 17th August

    Rest was recommended but I've been running 6 days a week for most of the year so I'm not willing to break that pattern just yet. Plagiarising an idea I've seen around these parts and sticking in an extra 5 mile recovery run. Based on a conversation with the physio last week, I'm also going to try and keep these recovery runs very slow. The physio was basically saying that it doesn't sound like i do anything in the endurance/ zone 1/ fat burning zone and that I should be doing much more, and to start training towards it. So for the recovery runs I'm going to try and keep a number low and hold it for as long as possible. P&D would say my recovery runs need to be less than <144. Strava has my Endurance zone at 123 so I'm quite a bit away from that. Garmin has my Zone 1 at an upper limit of 131 so that's. more doable for now. I just wonder is this the wrong time to be trying this, as it seems so far below the intensity P&D suggest it gets done at.

    I've also had a swing in that I've had a dramatic shift in thinking, going from having to drop plans having had fears I'm doing too much, to looking at the plan and wondering if I'm doing enough. Strava's Fitness and Fatigue numbers would even suggest the training load is a little light but I'm not sure at all how much attention I should pay to that. I'm willing to put up with it this week as I have my second last LT session tomorrow and a 20 miler Sunday so maybe it's just as well. The numbers on Monday should be fine then!!

    Anyway, today's run. Managed to keep the HR In the blue numbers on the watch for about 2.25 miles. It started to drift then so I got frustrated and just let it off. I figured that was a decent start and I could aim for 3 miles the next time. I did try and focus on a forefoot strike for most of the run to keep the mind occupied, and managed to do so for a reasonable amount. I did lose focus a good few times but nothing major. All in all, a good run, but starting to have the doubts that it may be a little slow. Pace works out around 2 minutes below MP. Average HR works out about 10 bpm below P&D upper limit. 5 miles, 9:37 pace, avg HR 134.

    LT session tomorrow. Not too many more chances to get it right. I'm really going to try and keep the pace at the slower end of the range for the first mile or two and hope the physio has done some magic!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭hot buttered scones


    JohnDozer wrote: »
    Wednesday 16th August

    Straightforward enough MLR on the club 5 mile loop apart from a couple of pauses to pick up and drop off other lads. Did a 1 mile out and 1 mile back with one of the lads and then picked up another guy for the first loop. We hadn't met him since his recent-ish Ironman exploits so settled into the easy pace, easy listening role and the time passed quickly with very little checking of the watch. The pace felt just right although the sweat was pouring off me due to the humidity. Picked up one potential little nugget of wisdom from the chat, it seems carrying a few Rennie's might be useful if the stomach got a bit upset from the gels. Reassembled at the meeting point after 7 miles and picked up one more after guzzling some water. The pace stayed nice and steady and just didn't feel like increasing it at all. The climb on both loops made sure there was an equal amount of decent effort and gentle freewheel each time around. 12 miles, 8:45 pace, avg HR 150.

    Thursday 17th August

    Rest was recommended but I've been running 6 days a week for most of the year so I'm not willing to break that pattern just yet. Plagiarising an idea I've seen around these parts and sticking in an extra 5 mile recovery run. Based on a conversation with the physio last week, I'm also going to try and keep these recovery runs very slow. The physio was basically saying that it doesn't sound like i do anything in the endurance/ zone 1/ fat burning zone and that I should be doing much more, and to start training towards it. So for the recovery runs I'm going to try and keep a number low and hold it for as long as possible. P&D would say my recovery runs need to be less than <144. Strava has my Endurance zone at 123 so I'm quite a bit away from that. Garmin has my Zone 1 at an upper limit of 131 so that's. more doable for now. I just wonder is this the wrong time to be trying this, as it seems so far below the intensity P&D suggest it gets done at.

    I've also had a swing in that I've had a dramatic shift in thinking, going from having to drop plans having had fears I'm doing too much, to looking at the plan and wondering if I'm doing enough. Strava's Fitness and Fatigue numbers would even suggest the training load is a little light but I'm not sure at all how much attention I should pay to that. I'm willing to put up with it this week as I have my second last LT session tomorrow and a 20 miler Sunday so maybe it's just as well. The numbers on Monday should be fine then!!

    Anyway, today's run. Managed to keep the HR In the blue numbers on the watch for about 2.25 miles. It started to drift then so I got frustrated and just let it off. I figured that was a decent start and I could aim for 3 miles the next time. I did try and focus on a forefoot strike for most of the run to keep the mind occupied, and managed to do so for a reasonable amount. I did lose focus a good few times but nothing major. All in all, a good run, but starting to have the doubts that it may be a little slow. Pace works out around 2 minutes below MP. Average HR works out about 10 bpm below P&D upper limit. 5 miles, 9:37 pace, avg HR 134.

    LT session tomorrow. Not too many more chances to get it right. I'm really going to try and keep the pace at the slower end of the range for the first mile or two and hope the physio has done some magic!


    P+D has my recovery HR at <142, but like yourself around 130ish is probably a better target for me. I tend to try and stick to around 130-135 for the first 3 miles or so, and then if it creeps up to 142 for the last 2 miles then so be it. I think your allowed to exceed the upper range by a few bpm if you have any hills during your recovery run (or run very slowly), so long as you ease off once you finish climbing. In the book he talks about feeling like your storing up energy rather than leaking it. On a good recovery day I can start out feeling a bit tired and stiff, but as I get into the run I start feeling energised. Sometimes its hard not to just let loose here but you have to just keep plodding along. I also find my pace can vary wildly on these runs - some days it's nearly up in the 10s and other days it's below 9 (although I'd probably be better off just keeping the pace slower than 9:00). They can seem very tedious to begin with, but once you get used to them you might find yourself looking forward to them - just easy relaxed days were you plod around under no pressure to hit a certain pace.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 804 ✭✭✭JohnDozer


    Good to hear the experience is similar. Reassuring! Although I do feel massive pressure NOT to hit a certain pace. These are more of a mental workout than any other run I find, really having to force myself to keep it controlled. I hope you're right, that I do embrace them a bit more the more I do of them.


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