All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Robson99 · 15-08-2017 11:22PM

Bluemallon wrote: »

As a Waterford fan I cannot condone the stupidity of Aussie , but the comparison with Touhy is correct both helmets were pulled off from underneath even with the hindsight of slowmotion you have misinterpeted the incident. Red cards were not given so lets get on with looking forward to seeing both players in the final.

Gleeson caught the faceguard. Touhy the back of the helmet

Bluemallon · 16-08-2017 12:09AM

Robson99 wrote: »

Gleeson caught the faceguard. Touhy the back of the helmet

Yeah look could split hairs made contact with side of faceguard and helmet,but in both incidents whether it was back side or front there was intent, so lets get over it and look forward to the final.

Amprodude · 16-08-2017 12:11AM

Bluemallon wrote: »

Yeah look could split hairs made contact with side of faceguard and helmet,but in both incidents whether it was back side or front there was intent, so lets get over it and look forward to the final.

Doesn't make it right all the same that the two players are allowed to play in final.

FatherTed · 16-08-2017 04:39AM

Why bother have rules if you're not going to enforce them?

RebelRebel2 · 16-08-2017 07:44AM

The GAA makes things up as they go along. A Gleeson is a marquee player who the GAA will not allow miss its biggest day of the year

greenspurs · 16-08-2017 07:54AM

A complete farce ....
Gaa havent got the sliothars to ban Gleeson.....
C'Mon Galway .....

greenspurs · 16-08-2017 08:20AM

68deville wrote: »

On the ground getting your helmet removed or Kevin Moran getting a full blown
Slap in the nuts that's doubled the man up!!?? Obvious that doesn't even count
As a noteworthy offence!

That happened while the Cork defender went to block Morans shot on goal !!
That was hardly a deliberate/dangerous incident !! :rolleyes:

HurlingRanker · 16-08-2017 08:23AM

Austin can count himself very lucky indeed, I wasn't fully convinced by De Burca's suspension due to the lack of clear cut footage where you can say "There, he grabbed the helmet and intent was there". I've seen tussling, holding each other around the head, grappling, in headlocks leading to helmets becoming undone without any direct contact with the helmet. With Austin, the act and intent (that does not happen by accident) were as clear as day. A suspension should have been applied here. The GAA really do seem to be making it up as they go along.

Anyway, it's done now. Just because I think they made the wrong call doesn't mean I'm not glad he'll be playing in a final. Leaving that issue aside he's the type of player you want to see playing in a final.

But the message from the GAA is now clear; It's not always unacceptable to deliberately interfere with another players helmet.

Littlehorny · 16-08-2017 08:37AM

greenspurs wrote: »

A complete farce ....
Gaa havent got the sliothars to ban Gleeson.....
C'Mon Galway .....

Exactly, reminds of the time Darragh O Shea got sent off for punching a lad in the face in a club game a week before the All Ireland and it all got brushed over.

letowski · 16-08-2017 08:55AM

djPSB wrote:

It's not the rule that's wrong. It's the application of it and the shady judiciary system which is wide open to abuse. The rules are very clear.

I agree he should be banned but I dont think it is very clear. Its very much open to interpretation which is why we are having pages and pages of disagreement on here and else where.

washman3 · 16-08-2017 10:13AM

Littlehorny wrote: »

Exactly, reminds of the time Darragh O Shea got sent off for punching a lad in the face in a club game a week before the All Ireland and it all got brushed over.

Nobody ever plays a CLUB game a WEEK before an All-Ireland final.
Barstool comment.
Cop-on FFS.

Motivator · 16-08-2017 10:14AM

munsterlegend wrote: »

Not surprising given your aversion to discussing Waterford incidents.

A shoulder to Coopers head who had to receive treatment. He might not have meant it but was reckless. You have no problem discussing Ellis flicking a foot out and not even knocking the lad over.

Ah would you come off it ffs.

If you're calling for a red for this then surely you'd have had no problem with Pat Horgan getting a red for his scandalous challenge in the Munster Final. Horgans was far worse as he led wth the elbow and blew the helmet off the Clare player's head.

This bitterness towards Waterford is truly unbelievable. I think it's a case of people from the so called "traditional" counties just wanting to keep Liam McCarthy amongst themselves. I've noticed it a lot lately, at the start of the year people saying they'd love to see Waterford do well but now they are, everything is wrong: they're ruining hurling, awful team, dirty team, McGrath very arrogant, Maurice Shanahan is a cheating bastard etc etc

Those are just some of the comments I've heard probably since the Kilkenny game. People seem to be delighted that Waterford beat Kilkenny but hoped we'd be beaten in our next match. It's as if we have no right to be in an All Ireland Final or even contending for a place in one.

greenspurs · 16-08-2017 10:24AM

Motivator wrote: »

Ah would you come off it ffs.

If you're calling for a red for this then surely you'd have had no problem with Pat Horgan getting a red for his scandalous challenge in the Munster Final. Horgans was far worse as he led wth the elbow and blew the helmet off the Clare player's head.

This bitterness towards Waterford is truly unbelievable. I think it's a case of people from the so called "traditional" counties just wanting to keep Liam McCarthy amongst themselves. I've noticed it a lot lately, at the start of the year people saying they'd love to see Waterford do well but now they are, everything is wrong: they're ruining hurling, awful team, dirty team, McGrath very arrogant, Maurice Shanahan is a cheating bastard etc etc

Those are just some of the comments I've heard probably since the Kilkenny game. People seem to be delighted that Waterford beat Kilkenny but hoped we'd be beaten in our next match. It's as if we have no right to be in an All Ireland Final or even contending for a place in one.

Small county mentality ........

Powerhouse · 16-08-2017 10:36AM

elefant wrote: »

The comparisons between the Tuohy and Austin Gleeson incidents are disingenuous in the extreme. Is anybody apart from Waterford fans, who might be naturally clouded in their judgment over this, seriously claiming to think the intention of interfering with the helmet is as blatantly obvious in both of those instances?

There is. I thought Tuohy's incident was a very obvious red card. He was reaching back and had no need whatsoever to keep pulling the helmet. In fact I would think it was a more serious issue than Gleeson' because it interfered with a player in the act of playing and so influenced the game.

Powerhouse · 16-08-2017 10:42AM

washman3 wrote: »

Nobody ever plays a CLUB game a WEEK before an All-Ireland final.
Barstool comment.
Cop-on FFS.

It was a fortnight before an All-Ireland semi-final but in fairness the key point he made stands i.e. that it was brushed under the carpet.

road_high · 16-08-2017 10:53AM

Motivator wrote: »

Ah would you come off it ffs.

If you're calling for a red for this then surely you'd have had no problem with Pat Horgan getting a red for his scandalous challenge in the Munster Final. Horgans was far worse as he led wth the elbow and blew the helmet off the Clare player's head.

This bitterness towards Waterford is truly unbelievable. I think it's a case of people from the so called "traditional" counties just wanting to keep Liam McCarthy amongst themselves. I've noticed it a lot lately, at the start of the year people saying they'd love to see Waterford do well but now they are, everything is wrong: they're ruining hurling, awful team, dirty team, McGrath very arrogant, Maurice Shanahan is a cheating bastard etc etc

Those are just some of the comments I've heard probably since the Kilkenny game. People seem to be delighted that Waterford beat Kilkenny but hoped we'd be beaten in our next match. It's as if we have no right to be in an All Ireland Final or even contending for a place in one.

Someone's not used to being in the big league. When you start winning it's rarely a place for love and adulation. (some) Waterford sound like they're having a hard time letting go of their victim complex. Did you think everyone would be showering you with love and praise from those failed counties of Kilkenny, Tipp and Cork? LOL

jelutong · 16-08-2017 10:55AM

Motivator wrote: »

Ah would you come off it ffs.

If you're calling for a red for this then surely you'd have had no problem with Pat Horgan getting a red for his scandalous challenge in the Munster Final. Horgans was far worse as he led wth the elbow and blew the helmet off the Clare player's head.

This bitterness towards Waterford is truly unbelievable. I think it's a case of people from the so called "traditional" counties just wanting to keep Liam McCarthy amongst themselves. I've noticed it a lot lately, at the start of the year people saying they'd love to see Waterford do well but now they are, everything is wrong: they're ruining hurling, awful team, dirty team, McGrath very arrogant, Maurice Shanahan is a cheating bastard etc etc

Those are just some of the comments I've heard probably since the Kilkenny game. People seem to be delighted that Waterford beat Kilkenny but hoped we'd be beaten in our next match. It's as if we have no right to be in an All Ireland Final or even contending for a place in one.

The majority of anti Derek McGrath comments come from the Waterford supporters. He's a thorough gentleman. Arrogant he's not.

munsterlegend · 16-08-2017 11:19AM

Motivator wrote: »

Ah would you come off it ffs.

If you're calling for a red for this then surely you'd have had no problem with Pat Horgan getting a red for his scandalous challenge in the Munster Final. Horgans was far worse as he led wth the elbow and blew the helmet off the Clare player's head.

This bitterness towards Waterford is truly unbelievable. I think it's a case of people from the so called "traditional" counties just wanting to keep Liam McCarthy amongst themselves. I've noticed it a lot lately, at the start of the year people saying they'd love to see Waterford do well but now they are, everything is wrong: they're ruining hurling, awful team, dirty team, McGrath very arrogant, Maurice Shanahan is a cheating bastard etc etc

Those are just some of the comments I've heard probably since the Kilkenny game. People seem to be delighted that Waterford beat Kilkenny but hoped we'd be beaten in our next match. It's as if we have no right to be in an All Ireland Final or even contending for a place in one.

The Waterford poster who I was replying to was mentioning every Cork incident in the match. Seems like Waterford people are fine unless it's one of their own is pointed out for a transgression. Every reply is oh well look at what another lad did.

Horgan could easily have walked in Munster final. The duty is on player giving the shoulder. In other sports automatic red such as rugby when leading with shoulder to the face and for good reason.

Anyway ye'd better beat Galway this year as the traditional counties as you call them will be back winning.I will support a fellow Munster team in the all Ireland though think Galway are better (would beat Cork too this year) and Canning is a player who should have an all Ireland medal.

greenspurs · 16-08-2017 11:46AM

Dont stop believing ?

Dont stop Appealing ..........

Utopia Parkway · 16-08-2017 12:04PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

There is. I thought Tuohy's incident was a very obvious red card. He was reaching back and had no need whatsoever to keep pulling the helmet. In fact I would think it was a more serious issue than Gleeson' because it interfered with a player in the act of playing and so influenced the game.

Ah jaysus.

Now people are trying to equivocate that Tuohy's (which was more than likely accidental and in mid-play with players tussling for position) was worse than Gleeson's (which was almost certainly deliberate on a prone opponent). This is through the looking glass stuff.

Powerhouse · 16-08-2017 12:06PM

munsterlegend wrote: »

1) Seems like Waterford people are fine unless it's one of their own is pointed out for a transgression. Every reply is oh well look at what another lad did.

2) Horgan could easily have walked in Munster final. The duty is on player giving the shoulder. In other sports automatic red such as rugby when leading with shoulder to the face and for good reason.

1) This applies to all counties in my experience.

2) I think we need to ease off on rugby comparisons. In hurling the shoulder or side-to-side charge (to give it its rule definition) is the only deliberate contact (as distinct from incidental contact) allowed in the game. Making a misjudged shoulder tackle (even to the face) an automatic red card would be insane. I'm not sure about the 'other sports' you mention but in rugby it is clearly premeditated dangerous play as the arms must be used in the tackle. This makes the parameters fairly unequivocal and more or less eliminates variables. Consequently there is little mercy shown to players who transgress.

In hurling the use of the shoulder per se is legitimate and allowance has to be made for mistiming a genuine attempt at a tackle or where a player might slip in a tackle and get a shoulder to the face as a result from a player clearly attempting to tackle legitimately.

This is not a specific reference to the Horgan incident (which looked bad enough to me though I haven't seen it since I watched the match) or any other, more a general point on implementation of the rules.

Motivator · 16-08-2017 12:25PM

road_high wrote: »

Someone's not used to being in the big league. When you start winning it's rarely a place for love and adulation. (some) Waterford sound like they're having a hard time letting go of their victim complex. Did you think everyone would be showering you with love and praise from those failed counties of Kilkenny, Tipp and Cork? LOL

I'm not saying people should be showering love and praise on Waterford, far from it. But at least give the team some credit. It's going on years, people loved referring to Waterford as "badge kissers" rather than giving players like Dan, Flynner, Ken and Mullane any credit.

I'm far from McGrath's biggest fan, I thought he should have been gone after the Cork game being honest with you. But I hold my hand up and I'm admitting I'm wrong. The way he sets the team up isn't to everyone's liking - including mine - but things have drastically improved since June. Pundits across the country still berate him and the players even though they've reached a final. There's too many people with an axe to grind for no apparent reason.

If Cody set Kilkenny up to play like Waterford he would be heralded as a genius who revolutionised hurling but because McGrath has done it with Waterford he's a leper in the eyes of the nation's media.

Powerhouse · 16-08-2017 12:25PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Ah jaysus.

Now people are trying to equivocate that Tuohy's (which was more than likely accidental and in mid-play with players tussling for position) was worse than Gleeson's (which was almost certainly deliberate on a prone opponent). This is through the looking glass stuff.

Why was it "more than likely accidental"? He had no reason to grab and opponent's helmet at all. And he kept hold of it and pulled even as he turned away. The fact that it was in mid-play makes deliberation all the more likely as there's an advantage to be gained. Gleeson achieved no advantage by pulling Meade's helmet on Sunday.

greenspurs · 16-08-2017 12:47PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Why was it "more than likely accidental"? He had no reason to grab and opponent's helmet at all. And he kept hold of it and pulled even as he turned away. The fact that it was in mid-play makes deliberation all the more likely as there's an advantage to be gained. Gleeson achieved no advantage by pulling Meade's helmet on Sunday.

:eek:
Oh god ......

Hitchens · 16-08-2017 01:22PM

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/do-we-have-to-wait-for-someones-ear-to-be-ripped-off-eddie-brennan-slams-gaas-disciplinary-process-36037984.html

fair dues to Eddie Brennan for not sitting on the fence like other pundits

djPSB · 16-08-2017 01:54PM

djPSB wrote: »

Why would Owens get involved and say he was happy with how he officiated the incident. When he blatantly officiated the incident incorrectly.

If he was being totally transparent, couldn't he just have been honest and said he did not see the incident and then allow the CCCC apply the correct disciplinary action if required.

If he is happy with how he officiated the incident, he should never be allowed to referee a game again.

CCCC not happy with Owens decision on incident.

Not surprising. Something's not right somewhere.

Larbre34 · 16-08-2017 02:00PM

djPSB wrote: »

CCCC not happy with Owens decision on incident.

Not surprising. Something's not right somewhere.

They are in a right mess now to be sure, the referees stance has meant the specific rule around the incident has been voided and now CCCC cant take it further because of what....the rules!

The CCCC must be allowed to have full discretion over reviewing incidents. Referees will always protect themselves, I mean Owens was never going to say "actually lads, I watched it on the Sunday game and he shouldve been gone..."

Gleeson will play the final and he shouldnt be...

Powerhouse · 16-08-2017 02:20PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

The CCCC must be allowed to have full discretion over reviewing incidents. Referees will always protect themselves, I mean Owens was never going to say "actually lads, I watched it on the Sunday game and he shouldve been gone..."

What absolute nonsense. Plenty of issues have been revisited over the years because referees didn't see them at the time. It has never been a problem for referees to accept this. I have no idea why Owens would not be protecting himself by doing this. Only an absolute cretin would not accept that the referee has to make a split-second judgement, sometimes on something he has not seen (as opposed to the viewers who see twenty reviews of the event) with no access to replays. Knowing and accepting this, why would revisiting an issue damage the referee?

Instead it could be argued that Owens potentially damaged himself by saying he was aware of it and took no action, as it runs the risk of pissing off people who might appoint referees. By saying he didn't see it, he simply would have acknowledged that he is human, and the CCCC takes the rap from disgruntled supporters when the player misses the final. From that point of view his stance is courageous.

Powerhouse · 16-08-2017 02:22PM

Hitchens wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/hurling/do-we-have-to-wait-for-someones-ear-to-be-ripped-off-eddie-brennan-slams-gaas-disciplinary-process-36037984.html

fair dues to Eddie Brennan for not sitting on the fence like other pundits

He certainly has changed his mind on player safety since he stuck a hurley into Seamus Hickey's face through the helmet. Old players retire but hypocrisy goes on forever.

Powerhouse · 16-08-2017 02:27PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Gleeson will play the final and he shouldnt be...

Get a life FFS! The opposing player got up and played on and was fine immediately afterwards. Whatever the rights and wrongs of rule implementation wanting a player to miss the final is fairly sad. There are worse things than a young fella playing in an All Ireland final.

All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

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