Dairy chit chat II

jaymla627 · 11-08-2017 11:32AM

freedominacup wrote: »

Glanbia co-op has 100 million for investment as of mid July. This is the value of the plc shares sold as part of the spin out agreed by shareholders in May. They have it earmarked for a new drier in belview. I'm not sure of the Ins and outs of the money raised last year when they issued a pretty unfavourable bond to raise another 100 million or so.

The proposed investment in belview is the one with big question marks over it currently. The other fund needs to be questioned by shareholders and pressure brought to bear on directors to ensure it's not frittered away. We as shareholders have already greenlighted the spin out money for investment in processing, the question is where it should be spent.

Good luck getting a straight answer re the above, I have tried in vain a few times to get a answer to no avail, the last time I was told the co-op hadn't access to this money by a vice-chairman, and when I tried to pull him up on these blatant lies he simply ignored us...
Thiers a massive conflict of interest re the new drier the plc need a cheap source of protein for the sports nutrition side so why would they put in a butter plant which would going of current markets returns the best price to the farmer, in terms of a butter plant vs a drier is their any difference in output per hour for processing peak milk if its negligible and the drier wouldn't be able to process anymore then the equivalent butter plant for the same investment its illogical to proceed with another dryer

oxjkqg · 11-08-2017 11:44AM

atlantic mist wrote: »

id imagine the gap funding was used to cover stock held over past two years, be interesting if we ever hear anything about it again cant see us getting back those shares, dont think they put much into eu storage but we did put some product into storage here in ireland, we are being paid over 30c a litre with over 50% of our product in powder, its hard to figure out how they pay for raw materials in any given year...

New dryer is being built later in the year out of retained profit since gii establishment, all milk will be going to ballyragget at back end of year as cant commence building with a dryer going for health and safety reasons so belview closes completely until new dryer is commissioned....would have made far more sense to build second dryer when commissioning the first one if that was plan anyway....id rather see a cheese/uth plant being built instead of increasing our reliance on powder that cant be sold/or can be sold if we are willing to continue to recieve 3c less than fonterra

according to my milk development office the new dryer is what 95% of supplier want there is only a few of us that think its financial suicide, fonterra are moving away from dryers for powder as it just cant return adequate raw material price to farmers and yet our management seem hell bent on driving us into it

Incorrect - belview dryer is being shut due to structural welding issues - big problems and a nice bit of work to rectify it.

Other avenues needed for milk

K.G. · 11-08-2017 11:55AM

Could some do a quick summery of gii postion now as to what it owns (including plc shares.what its spent and how its financed and what its relationship/deal withplc

whelan2 · 11-08-2017 12:04PM

oxjkqg wrote: »

Incorrect - belview dryer is being shut due to structural welding issues - big problems and a nice bit of work to rectify it.

Other avenues needed for milk

How old is belview now? A bit early for such problems?

kowtow · 11-08-2017 12:09PM

Isn't the issue that drying is the market of last resort?

I'm sure all of us agree that higher margin and premium products are what we want milk to go into but the hard truth of it is that the milk supply in Ireland is growing much faster than our capacity to develop and market high value product. To be honest, I doubt it is shortage of investment which is holding back premium product development - what we need to do is step back and look at what these apparent premium / high value markets are and what they mean in volume terms?

To my mind - and I stand ready to be corrected - a lot of the high end innovation markets, whey extracts etc., even infant formula, sound as though they are fairly specialist and perhaps small in volume terms compared to the growth of the milk pool. The traditional premium export markets other countries enjoy - Dutch & French cheeses, butter (in our case) are inextricably linked to terroir and country - you can't just throw 50 million at a marketing agency and create another Kerrygold. Presumably block cheeses are an option but they create their own issues in terms of by products.

We're 20% ahead of the soviet style supply side targets set by Harvest 2020 - the milk is in the tank today and must be disposed of, which is where drying capacity comes in.

K.G. · 11-08-2017 12:30PM

kowtow wrote: »

Isn't the issue that drying is the market of last resort?

I'm sure all of us agree that higher margin and premium products are what we want milk to go into but the hard truth of it is that the milk supply in Ireland is growing much faster than our capacity to develop and market high value product. To be honest, I doubt it is shortage of investment which is holding back premium product development - what we need to do is step back and look at what these apparent premium / high value markets are and what they mean in volume terms?

To my mind - and I stand ready to be corrected - a lot of the high end innovation markets, whey extracts etc., even infant formula, sound as though they are fairly specialist and perhaps small in volume terms compared to the growth of the milk pool. The traditional premium export markets other countries enjoy - Dutch & French cheeses, butter (in our case) are inextricably linked to terroir and country - you can't just throw 50 million at a marketing agency and create another Kerrygold. Presumably block cheeses are an option but they create their own issues in terms of by products.

We're 20% ahead of the soviet style supply side targets set by Harvest 2020 - the milk is in the tank today and must be disposed of, which is where drying capacity comes in.

Careful now dont you know itts the management/boards/ornua/2020 fault not our fault for plopping the milk down in front of them and saying here sell that.while we are at can we get quick summations of other processors as well

freedominacup · 11-08-2017 12:58PM

kowtow wrote: »

Isn't the issue that drying is the market of last resort?

I'm sure all of us agree that higher margin and premium products are what we want milk to go into but the hard truth of it is that the milk supply in Ireland is growing much faster than our capacity to develop and market high value product. To be honest, I doubt it is shortage of investment which is holding back premium product development - what we need to do is step back and look at what these apparent premium / high value markets are and what they mean in volume terms?

To my mind - and I stand ready to be corrected - a lot of the high end innovation markets, whey extracts etc., even infant formula, sound as though they are fairly specialist and perhaps small in volume terms compared to the growth of the milk pool. The traditional premium export markets other countries enjoy - Dutch & French cheeses, butter (in our case) are inextricably linked to terroir and country - you can't just throw 50 million at a marketing agency and create another Kerrygold. Presumably block cheeses are an option but they create their own issues in terms of by products.

We're 20% ahead of the soviet style supply side targets set by Harvest 2020 - the milk is in the tank today and must be disposed of, which is where drying capacity comes in.

Your thesis fails when the Dutch are considered. They have almost three times as much milk for export than we do yet have a considerable premium over our farm gate price. No one ever panics saying the Dutch are coming, the Dutch are coming re milk price as they do about the kiwis yet the Dutch have approx the same national output and more than 75% of the export capacity of the kiwis.

Surely you can throw 50 million at a marketing agency building on the kerrygold brand using it to market other products. Names are used to sell all sorts of products with the most dubious links to the name used to endorse the new products credentials. Half the biggest brands globally don't even manufacture the products they sell. How hard can it be to build on the kerrygold brand to sell other dairy products?

kowtow · 11-08-2017 01:51PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Your thesis fails when the Dutch are considered. They have almost three times as much milk for export than we do yet have a considerable premium over our farm gate price. No one ever panics saying the Dutch are coming, the Dutch are coming re milk price as they do about the kiwis yet the Dutch have approx the same national output and more than 75% of the export capacity of the kiwis.

Surely you can throw 50 million at a marketing agency building on the kerrygold brand using it to market other products. Names are used to sell all sorts of products with the most dubious links to the name used to endorse the new products credentials. Half the biggest brands globally don't even manufacture the products they sell. How hard can it be to build on the kerrygold brand to sell other dairy products?

Looking at Dutch figures about 2/3rds of their exports (1 billlion kg) go in milk, cream, and cheese. As far as I can see more than half of their milk goes into cheese.

13% of their milk goes into powder, compared to the EU average of 16%

Holland has 4% of the worlds cheese market (compared to UK 2%, Denmark 2%... Italy 5%.. interestingly poland 3%).. Ireland doesn't appear to figure.

It is striking of course that Holland, Italy, the United Kingdom etc. all have National cheeses which are regarded as part of the indigenous culture and which rely on terroir and history rather than marketing glitz, Germany & France have many more. Ireland has none.

I'm not sure I agree that you can simply label up products and make them anywhere when chasing export market share - at least while maintaining a premium for the raw material. Almost every country makes factory cheeses, and cheeses for further processing, including Ireland - and surely a lot of the distinction is lost on the end customer if they have any idea of origin at all, in which case it's down to price again.

It's worth remembering that Kerrygold, while we celebrate it as an example of marketing, may be successful as a premium product for much more fundamental reasons which have nothing to do with marketing departments - it is, quite simply "Irish butter". In fact, it's the only Irish butter available in most of the world - and we have a long established historical reputation for beautiful grass fed butter.

Edit: also notable is that 70% of Dutch exports by value go to the EU.

From what I can see this compares with about 60% of Irish exports of which half go to the UK (and the UK alone accounts for half our cheese and half our butter production). There is a conscious effort on the part of Bord Bia et. al to diversify markets outside the EU - the question is, are those markets after premium goods or commodity powders?

freedominacup · 11-08-2017 02:21PM

kowtow wrote: »

Looking at Dutch figures about 2/3rds of their exports (1 billlion kg) go in milk, cream, and cheese. As far as I can see more than half of their milk goes into cheese.

13% of their milk goes into powder, compared to the EU average of 16%

Holland has 4% of the worlds cheese market (compared to UK 2%, Denmark 2%... Italy 5%.. interestingly poland 3%).. Ireland doesn't appear to figure.

It is striking of course that Holland, Italy, the United Kingdom etc. all have National cheeses which are regarded as part of the indigenous culture and which rely on terroir and history rather than marketing glitz, Germany & France have many more. Ireland has none.

I'm not sure I agree that you can simply label up products and make them anywhere when chasing export market share - at least while maintaining a premium for the raw material. Almost every country makes factory cheeses, and cheeses for further processing, including Ireland - and surely a lot of the distinction is lost on the end customer if they have any idea of origin at all, in which case it's down to price again.

It's worth remembering that Kerrygold, while we celebrate it as an example of marketing, may be successful as a premium product for much more fundamental reasons which have nothing to do with marketing departments - it is, quite simply "Irish butter". In fact, it's the only Irish butter available in most of the world - and we have a long established historical reputation for beautiful grass fed butter.

Define terroir for me. I'm not sure if I get your meaning on it.

The last thing I would want to see would be the kerrygold brand being used on product from outside this country. Following links on various consumer sites the brand has a very loyal following though. Even to the extent of consumers leaping to it's defence in relation to gmo in one debate I read. You can't buy that and I think we're foolish not to try to build on it. Quality above all in any product sold under the brand.

whelan2 · 11-08-2017 02:52PM

Vet was saying today that a farmer wanted a foetus tested after a cow aborted. Sligo is the closest to us now apparently!

kowtow · 11-08-2017 02:57PM

freedominacup wrote: »

Define terroir for me. I'm not sure if I get your meaning on it.

The last thing I would want to see would be the kerrygold brand being used on product from outside this country. Following links on various consumer sites the brand has a very loyal following though. Even to the extent of consumers leaping to it's defence in relation to gmo in one debate I read. You can't buy that and I think we're foolish not to try to build on it. Quality above all in any product sold under the brand.

terroir is literally the earth coming through in the product... in the case of Kerrygold "Pure Irish Butter" - which is what the label always says - that means that every image a customer has in their mind of cows crossing lanes and grazing in Irish fields to produce golden butter (which we have produced for hundreds of years) is wrapped up in that product.

Contrast that with Cheddar - cheddar is (in the eye of the consumer) an English product, exemplified by the cloth bound truckles of cheddar produced on farms around the Cheddar gorge in Somerset. It conjurs images of scrumpy cider (also Somerset) and ploughmans lunches of cheddar and pickle.... cheddar type cheese has been made for hundreds of years all over the world, but England has the edge when it comes to claiming a premium for the product because that's where the story belongs (ironically the Cheddaring process, which is what is important, probably started in Norfolk or Cheshire but that's a fairly minor detail). Stilton has even stronger claims to English territory, along with a host of others.

We sell half our - mainly factory cheddar - production into the UK, which is akin to selling golden English butter into Ireland and hoping for a premium on the high street.

It takes generations of cultural tradition to create a territorial brand strong enough to be levered internationally and still retain a premium - The Dutch have a big edge here because five hundred years ago they created a cheese specifically for export on sailing ships - big round balls of it covered in wax, which fitted better in a barrel than other shapes - that's why Edam is Edam and the Dutch will always find it easier to sell it at a premium than Ireland would.

If we want to create true premium dairy food products for the world market (and I think there is a world market greedy for Irish products) it's our heritage that we need to be bottling (or rennetting..) . Trying to do it from the top down with men in white coats processing larger and larger pools of milk is precisely the wrong way to go about it.

I accept that there is a new generation - perhaps - of dairy products packaged as "nutritional innovations" - Danone / Yoplait spring to mind - which are often the work of marketing rather than farming - I just don't know what kind of premium and volume they can really maintain and whether we have a genuine edge in supplying them.

Mooooo · 11-08-2017 03:08PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Vet was saying today that a farmer wanted a foetus tested after a cow aborted. Sligo is the closest to us now apparently!

That's a balls, foetus is most accurate way of determining cause, bloods not as good

whelan2 · 11-08-2017 03:19PM

Mooooo wrote: »

That's a balls, foetus is most accurate way of determining cause, bloods not as good

Ucd and backweston not interested apparently

Gawddawggonnit · 11-08-2017 04:13PM

kowtow wrote: »

terroir is literally the earth coming through in the product... in the case of Kerrygold "Pure Irish Butter" - which is what the label always says - that means that every image a customer has in their mind of cows crossing lanes and grazing in Irish fields to produce golden butter (which we have produced for hundreds of years) is wrapped up in that product.

Contrast that with Cheddar - cheddar is (in the eye of the consumer) an English product, exemplified by the cloth bound truckles of cheddar produced on farms around the Cheddar gorge in Somerset. It conjurs images of scrumpy cider (also Somerset) and ploughmans lunches of cheddar and pickle.... cheddar type cheese has been made for hundreds of years all over the world, but England has the edge when it comes to claiming a premium for the product because that's where the story belongs (ironically the Cheddaring process, which is what is important, probably started in Norfolk or Cheshire but that's a fairly minor detail). Stilton has even stronger claims to English territory, along with a host of others.

We sell half our - mainly factory cheddar - production into the UK, which is akin to selling golden English butter into Ireland and hoping for a premium on the high street.

It takes generations of cultural tradition to create a territorial brand strong enough to be levered internationally and still retain a premium - The Dutch have a big edge here because five hundred years ago they created a cheese specifically for export on sailing ships - big round balls of it covered in wax, which fitted better in a barrel than other shapes - that's why Edam is Edam and the Dutch will always find it easier to sell it at a premium than Ireland would.

If we want to create true premium dairy food products for the world market (and I think there is a world market greedy for Irish products) it's our heritage that we need to be bottling (or rennetting..) . Trying to do it from the top down with men in white coats processing larger and larger pools of milk is precisely the wrong way to go about it.

I accept that there is a new generation - perhaps - of dairy products packaged as "nutritional innovations" - Danone / Yoplait spring to mind - which are often the work of marketing rather than farming - I just don't know what kind of premium and volume they can really maintain and whether we have a genuine edge in supplying them.

That's the rub...it takes generations of know how and expertise to anchor a product as being from a region/country.
That comes from the bottom up. Waiting for research scientists in fancy labs to come up with a distinctly regional product that the consumer wants is rather hopeful.
Maybe now in the Information Age it could happen at a greater pace.

Mooooo · 11-08-2017 04:31PM

whelan2 wrote: »

Ucd and backweston not interested apparently

Thought there was a dvo lab in ucd? Fortunate cork has one in the model farm road, still have to book it thru your own vet, used to be able to just drop it in.

kowtow · 11-08-2017 04:45PM

Does anyone have a really detailed explanation of how the PPI is constructed and how it works?

I know it represents a basket of "typical" returns on the Irish product mix but how often is that product mix updated and how much of it is made oblique due to commercial sensitivities?

There is a somewhat temperamental debate on twitter at the moment following Magan's article in the journal. I agree with the sentiment in the article that we should all be taking much more of an interest but it seems to me to have an agenda for amalgamating the processors while dismissing product mix entirely - I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd like to understand what we are selling as a country before making my mind up about who should process and sell it..

Surely the PPI - if it was constructed from monthly returns of processing for example - could serve as a benchmark for the actual Irish product mix and we could then question individual co-ops as to why they were better or worse? Perhaps this is already how it is put together, I just can't find any pointers to it.

K.G. · 11-08-2017 05:47PM

kowtow wrote: »

terroir is literally the earth coming through in the product... in the case of Kerrygold "Pure Irish Butter" - which is what the label always says - that means that every image a customer has in their mind of cows crossing lanes and grazing in Irish fields to produce golden butter (which we have produced for hundreds of years) is wrapped up in that product.

Contrast that with Cheddar - cheddar is (in the eye of the consumer) an English product, exemplified by the cloth bound truckles of cheddar produced on farms around the Cheddar gorge in Somerset. It conjurs images of scrumpy cider (also Somerset) and ploughmans lunches of cheddar and pickle.... cheddar type cheese has been made for hundreds of years all over the world, but England has the edge when it comes to claiming a premium for the product because that's where the story belongs (ironically the Cheddaring process, which is what is important, probably started in Norfolk or Cheshire but that's a fairly minor detail). Stilton has even stronger claims to English territory, along with a host of others.

We sell half our - mainly factory cheddar - production into the UK, which is akin to selling golden English butter into Ireland and hoping for a premium on the high street.

It takes generations of cultural tradition to create a territorial brand strong enough to be levered internationally and still retain a premium - The Dutch have a big edge here because five hundred years ago they created a cheese specifically for export on sailing ships - big round balls of it covered in wax, which fitted better in a barrel than other shapes - that's why Edam is Edam and the Dutch will always find it easier to sell it at a premium than Ireland would.

If we want to create true premium dairy food products for the world market (and I think there is a world market greedy for Irish products) it's our heritage that we need to be bottling (or rennetting..) . Trying to do it from the top down with men in white coats processing larger and larger pools of milk is precisely the wrong way to go about it.

I accept that there is a new generation - perhaps - of dairy products packaged as "nutritional innovations" - Danone / Yoplait spring to mind - which are often the work of marketing rather than farming - I just don't know what kind of premium and volume they can really maintain and whether we have a genuine edge in supplying them.

As usual kowtow youve put it so much better than i could.establishing brands and consumer products is a long and expensive process and carrys its own risks.add in the fact that the local market is so small it makes it very difficult to establish a new brand/product as in general products are established in a home market before moving to export markwts.business to business on the other hand is easier to establish for exports and carries a degree of protection from some risks.one of the mainn reasons for lower prices in ireland is the product mix but also the operating margins of milkvprocessing ar so low that enough capital is not available real r and d and marketing.it ssomewhat of a catch 22 set up .mikes article is full of aspiration but not alot of concret proposals and i was just wondering what ye thought.this forum he spoke of sounded to me that it didnt seem to have anything other than another crowd to issue a report.at the end of the day i think the different ownership structures now inplace in ireland means any sort of restructuring will be slow and difficult

kowtow · 11-08-2017 06:13PM

K.G. wrote: »

mikes article is full of aspiration but not alot of concret proposals and i was just wondering what ye thought.this forum he spoke of sounded to me that it didnt seem to have anything other than another crowd to issue a report.at the end of the day i think the different ownership structures now inplace in ireland means any sort of restructuring will be slow and difficult

Couldn't agree more.

I was accused on twitter of not having read his article when I said that the only thing in it to debate was whether to amalgamate the processors and whether that would give us 3c more on the milk price.

I think his concerns are absolutely justified.

I would be very wary indeed of replacing the Irish co-op structure, what is left of it anyway, during the early days of a national plan where the sole focus is to increase production massively while preparing farmers to lower the price at the farm gate.

Farmers don't - in my opinion - have a clear understanding of what products are being made from their milk, in what proportion, at what prices (and in what markets) those products are selling - and they don't, therefore, really have the information required to make a rational decision about where investment should be directed in the future and how processing should look. We're asked to be businesslike but no business would ever make decisions for the future based on such a scarcity of information.

If a forum or talking shop is needed then it should first and foremost address the problem above, and if processors can't or won't deliver transparency on that - then it should be looking to deliver every farmer in the country a choice of multiple processors and let them keep each other honest. They'll soon deliver amalgamation and efficiency if they have to compete for milk.

pedigree 6 · 11-08-2017 09:01PM

B.F 3.72
Pr 3.46
Lactose 4.95
M.U 33
Litres/cow 27.9
Solids/cow 2.06
On 4kgs 14% Pr Meal.

Why do we have to have a winter?
Be nice if the whole year could be like now.:pac:

Spraying off paddocks for reseeding tomorrow.

Mooooo · 11-08-2017 09:07PM

pedigree 6 wrote: »

B.F 3.72
Pr 3.46
Lactose 4.95
M.U 33
Litres/cow 27.9
Solids/cow 2.06
On 4kgs 14% Pr Meal.

Why do we have to have a winter?
Be nice if the whole year could be like now.:pac:

Spraying off paddocks for reseeding tomorrow.

Serious going pedigree, you stay on 4kg for the summer? Dropped back to 2 here seeing as stocking rate dropped below 4, only doing 20L p just hit 3.7 bf dropped from 4.3 to 4.1 tho. Have a share of carryovers and autumn calvers yet to dry tho

pedigree 6 · 11-08-2017 09:16PM

Mooooo wrote: »

Serious going pedigree, you stay on 4kg for the summer? Dropped back to 2 here seeing as stocking rate dropped below 4, only doing 20L p just hit 3.7 bf dropped from 4.3 to 4.1 tho. Have a share of carryovers and autumn calvers yet to dry tho

Yep. If they keep it up why drop the meal?
I'd be afraid if I dropped the meal too much the litres would drop too much and if it goes down and for long you can't get it back up. So no dropping meal here as long as they're producing the goods.

It's been an exceptional year for milk production here though.

straight · 11-08-2017 10:07PM

Hi, I am considering installing an atl auto washer for my milking machine. I would like to hear from somebody with experience of them before investing.

Timmaay · 11-08-2017 10:16PM

Anyone got a ballpark figure for converting a 4bay loose bedded shed into cubicles?

Buford T. Justice XIX · 11-08-2017 10:52PM

https://twitter.com/DairyNZ/status/896122806316007424

Water John · 11-08-2017 11:06PM

Kowtow, I Know a some years ago, the question about product mix and the product returns were put to the Diary Section of IFA. It gave rise to a look of bewilderment.
None of the farm organisations TMK, ever requested the annual product production figures from Govn't. So the reps of Irish farmers don't know the answers to your question because, they never asked.

yewtree · 11-08-2017 11:20PM

Buford T. Justice V wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DairyNZ/status/896122806316007424

Dairy nz do some good stuff, was on there website today much easier to use than the teagasc one.
The cow flow video was really interesting

K.G. · 12-08-2017 12:09AM

kowtow wrote: »

Couldn't agree more.

I was accused on twitter of not having read his article when I said that the only thing in it to debate was whether to amalgamate the processors and whether that would give us 3c more on the milk price.

I think his concerns are absolutely justified.

I would be very wary indeed of replacing the Irish co-op structure, what is left of it anyway, during the early days of a national plan where the sole focus is to increase production massively while preparing farmers to lower the price at the farm gate.

Farmers don't - in my opinion - have a clear understanding of what products are being made from their milk, in what proportion, at what prices (and in what markets) those products are selling - and they don't, therefore, really have the information required to make a rational decision about where investment should be directed in the future and how processing should look. We're asked to be businesslike but no business would ever make decisions for the future based on such a scarcity of information.

If a forum or talking shop is needed then it should first and foremost address the problem above, and if processors can't or won't deliver transparency on that - then it should be looking to deliver every farmer in the country a choice of multiple processors and let them keep each other honest. They'll soon deliver amalgamation and efficiency if they have to compete for milk.

I think you are 100%correct about farmer knowledge of where their milk goes and what it makes and what it returns and how the markets operate and that is the fault of the coops .for a bit of fun and excluding west cork as we will not accept any supplier outside our catchment(nothing to do with any gentkemans agreement,we just dont want to give away the value built up in our business),where would you go if you could move supplier.i repeat no west cork .its not an option

kowtow · 12-08-2017 12:44AM

Water John wrote:

Kowtow, I Know a some years ago, the question about product mix and the product returns were put to the Diary Section of IFA. It gave rise to a look of bewilderment. None of the farm organisations TMK, ever requested the annual product production figures from Govn't. So the reps of Irish farmers don't know the answers to your question because, they never asked.

To be fair to them product mix wasn't really such an issue until quotas lifted and expansion became the name of the game.

It's everything now; and every cent above the powder price will have to be earned by those we trust with our milk when it leaves the gate.

rangler1 · 12-08-2017 07:05AM

Water John wrote: »

Kowtow, I Know a some years ago, the question about product mix and the product returns were put to the Diary Section of IFA. It gave rise to a look of bewilderment.
None of the farm organisations TMK, ever requested the annual product production figures from Govn't. So the reps of Irish farmers don't know the answers to your question because, they never asked.

Does it make any difference, once the milk leaves the yard it's there's to sell as they wish......what's the point of them employing management and then have to tolerate farmers telling them how to manage it....You should give some time to go on the dairy commitee and then everything'd be done right then.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 12-08-2017 08:04AM

yewtree wrote: »

Dairy nz do some good stuff, was on there website today much easier to use than the teagasc one.
The cow flow video was really interesting

Yeah, it's a nice place to pass a half hour, they have some interesting stuff there.

Dairy chit chat II

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