Location of public charge points

Balmed Out · 09-08-2017 10:58am #1

As someone with two children I find a lot of the public points to be very annoyingly located. Normally a petrol station or a car park on the arse end of a town. I realise beggars can't be choosers but what's the thought process into their placement?

My other bug is should towns with a charge point have two seperate ones? On longer journeys you have to stop more often to take into account long queues or out of order charge points which is a real pain with small kids.

unkel · 09-08-2017 11:24am

Back in the day when most chargers were installed, EVs were considered to be city cars. That charged slowly. And needed to be parked up all day or all night to charge. Hence almost all of the chargers in Ireland being slow chargers in towns / cities

Unfortunately out of the 1200 chargers, there are only about 70 fast chargers. Yes, not much more than 5% of chargers are useful fast chargers. And most of them are not in convenient intercity locations, but in local shopping malls, etc.

And the ESB have no funding for installing any more, so we are at a bit of a dead end at the moment. With some of the busier fast chargers now regularly having queues of EVs waiting

jamesthepeach · 09-08-2017 11:28am

I pulled up to a charger in ashbkurne the other day with 4, I kid you not, cars waiting to charge before me. This is getting beyond a joke now.

cros13 · 09-08-2017 11:32am

jamesthepeach wrote: »

I pulled up to a charger in ashbkurne the other day with 4, I kid you not, cars waiting to charge before me. This is getting beyond a joke now.

Didn't ESB say that the network was "sufficient" for 20,000 cars?

My worst was a queue 7 cars ahead of me, with no other nearby CCS rapid.

KCross · 09-08-2017 12:14pm

cros13 wrote: »

Didn't ESB say that the network was "sufficient" for 20,000 cars?

My worst was a queue 7 cars ahead of me, with no other nearby CCS rapid.

They did say that alright based on a very crude X cars per charger metric which of course is nonsense when some chargers are under utilised and some are over utilised.

It requires better planning and of course money!

jamesthepeach · 09-08-2017 12:15pm

cros13 wrote: »

Didn't ESB say that the network was "sufficient" for 20,000 cars?

My worst was a queue 7 cars ahead of me, with no other nearby CCS rapid.

My god.
I think I would just cry if I saw that.
I've seen 3 a good few times, 2 more often than not nowadays.

unkel · 09-08-2017 12:34pm

cros13 wrote: »

My worst was a queue 7 cars ahead of me, with no other nearby CCS rapid.

Which one? That's horrific BTW

samih · 09-08-2017 12:47pm

In UK, which has more electric cars than us per capita, I had to wait once in 2 weeks for 30 minutes before I could charge. On both legs to and from the harbour in Ireland I had to wait both ways.

They key is to charge for charging at higher rate (like at twice or more) than it would cost to charge at home.

jamesthepeach · 09-08-2017 12:52pm

samih wrote: »

In UK, which has more electric cars than us per capita, I had to wait once in 2 weeks for 30 minutes before I could charge. On both legs to and from the harbour in Ireland I had to wait both ways.

They key is to charge for charging at higher rate (like at twice or more) than it would cost to charge at home.

Never fear on that.
But it will be more like 10 times the price at home when it does come in. Last time they tried to bring in a subscription charge whether you used it or not in any month you would have had to pay I think it was €17 a month to have access and then pay for the electricity on top at an extoryionate rate.

I'd like to see fcps required at every garage. And two in each motorway service station.

Sabre Man · 09-08-2017 12:53pm

samih wrote: »

In UK, which has more electric cars than us per capita, I had to wait once in 2 weeks for 30 minutes before I could charge. On both legs to and from the harbour in Ireland I had to wait both ways.

They key is to charge for charging at higher rate (like at twice or more) than it would cost to charge at home.

That still wouldn't solve the issues mentioned above with 3+ cars waiting to charge. I doubt they were all waiting in such long queues just to save a few euros.

ELM327 · 09-08-2017 1:37pm

I've been the second car in a 4 car queue, and the third car in the queue when I was on "---" before aswell. Generally i find outside of the GDA that the chargers are always free, but any time I'm in the GDA we end up queuing at peak time.

I ask myself a question, would I be happy to pay €3-€5 for a fast charge if they would install more chargers (2 per site) and in better locations? With 2 kids in the back sitting for 30 minutes to an hour in a queue you bet your bottom dollar I would!

No matter what happens with the network I hope they remove Blanchardstown, Lucan and Naas and put them in better locations.

liamog · 09-08-2017 1:46pm

ELM327 wrote: »

No matter what happens with the network I hope they remove Blanchardstown, Lucan and Naas and put them in better locations.

I know I have to keep pointing this out, but the message doesn't seem to be sinking in.

Blanch, Lucan and Naas are the perfect locations for 50kW FCPs.
When paid charging is introduced busy chargers like these used by suburbanites will fund the lesser used, but more essential interurban network.

oppenheimer1 · 09-08-2017 2:03pm

Sabre Man wrote: »

That still wouldn't solve the issues mentioned above with 3+ cars waiting to charge. I doubt they were all waiting in such long queues just to save a few euros.

You'd be surprised. There are people on this forum that never charge at home and only use the public network. One might say they are freeloaders abusing the system, but I'm nicer than that

unkel · 09-08-2017 2:04pm

liamog wrote: »

I know I have to keep pointing this out, but the message doesn't seem to be sinking in.

Blanch, Lucan and Naas are the perfect locations for 50kW FCPs.
When paid charging is introduced busy chargers like these used by suburbanites will fund the lesser used, but more essential interurban network.

Aye, the last thing we need to do is start removing fast chargers :eek:

Install a quadruple charger at every 40km on all national roads and motorways and we're good for several years to come. And paid for charging of course.

ELM327 · 09-08-2017 2:06pm

liamog wrote: »

I know I have to keep pointing this out, but the message doesn't seem to be sinking in.

Blanch, Lucan and Naas are the perfect locations for 50kW FCPs.
When paid charging is introduced busy chargers like these used by suburbanites will fund the lesser used, but more essential interurban network.

unkel wrote: »

Aye, the last thing we need to do is start removing fast chargers :eek:

Install a quadruple charger at every 40km on all national roads and motorways and we're good for several years to come. And paid for charging of course.

They are not the perfect location, and would be better served with a row of 22kW AC chargers.

I'm not saying to get rid of the chargers, I'm saying to move them elsewhere!

unkel · 09-08-2017 2:16pm

ELM327 wrote: »

They are not the perfect location, and would be better served with a row of 22kW AC chargers.

They're useless. Go shopping for half an hour and you gain 3.6kWh in an Ioniq and only 1.8kWh in a standard Leaf. Not worth the effort of getting your own cable out, getting it dirty and having to stow it all away again. For like €0.20 in electricity...

Unless you come from down the country to spend the guts of a day in the big shmoke at one of these fancy shopping malls that is the Supervalue shopping centre in Lucan

oppenheimer1 · 09-08-2017 2:20pm

It would be a good idea to remove all SCP's from the urban cores in order to encourage fewer people to drive into city centres.

ELM327 · 09-08-2017 2:20pm

unkel wrote: »

They're useless. Go shopping for half an hour and you gain 3.6kWh in an Ioniq and only 1.8kWh in a standard Leaf

Unless you come from down the country to spend the guts of a day at one of these fancy shopping malls that is the Supervalue shopping centre in Lucan

Are you the guy that doesnt like AC charging?

I'm from down the sticks and my leaf charges at 6kW. I would be more likely to spend 2 hours in Blanchardstown than 30 minutes. If we go to Blanchardstown (or dundrum) it's generally to visit specific shops that we don't have local, and to go for a starbucks - which again we dont have local. Leave home with 80%, arrive with <20, charge to 80% again and drive home. No charging time at all (other than when the car is parked anyway).

I'd say - and this would be an interesting survey to do - if you surveyed the majority of shoppers in Blanchardstown, Dundrum, Naas for their stay duration, it would be closer to 2 hours than 30 minutes. Except for the locals, who should not be using the FCP anyway.

ELM327 · 09-08-2017 2:21pm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

It would be a good idea to remove all SCP's from the urban cores in order to encourage fewer people to drive into city centres.

If you support that, do you also support removing all petrol stations from the city centre?

oppenheimer1 · 09-08-2017 2:24pm

ELM327 wrote: »

If you support that, do you also support removing all petrol stations from the city centre?

I'd go further. I support the pedestrianisation of the urban cores. We need fewer cars of all types in cities.

It would make them better places to live.

ei9go · 09-08-2017 2:24pm

unkel wrote: »

They're useless. Go shopping for half an hour and you gain 3.6kWh in an Ioniq and only 1.8kWh in a standard Leaf. Not worth the effort of getting your own cable out, getting it dirty and having to stow it all away again. For like €0.20 in electricity...

Unless you come from down the country to spend the guts of a day in the big shmoke at one of these fancy shopping malls that is the Supervalue shopping centre in Lucan

They are brilliant with the Zoe.
It's just that other cars can't take advantage of them.
You can go nearly anywhere in the Zoe and don't care if the FCP is busy or broken.

beauf · 09-08-2017 2:25pm

have a mobile service.

http://www.jtmpower.ie/index.php?target=news

ELM327 · 09-08-2017 2:29pm

oppenheimer1 wrote: »

I'd go further. I support the pedestrianisation of the urban cores. We need fewer cars of all types in cities.

It would make them better places to live.

I must be wrong because I am agreeing with you!
We should have a lot more pedestrianised areas within the cities - particularly dublin.
The areas should be blocked off to traffic and have multiple high rise carparks on the edge of the pedestrian zone. Then have multiple chargers in the carparks and boom - there you go, emissions reduced.

Balmed Out · 09-08-2017 2:48pm

unkel wrote: »

They're useless. Go shopping for half an hour and you gain 3.6kWh in an Ioniq and only 1.8kWh in a standard Leaf. Not worth the effort of getting your own cable out, getting it dirty and having to stow it all away again. For like €0.20 in electricity...

Unless you come from down the country to spend the guts of a day in the big shmoke at one of these fancy shopping malls that is the Supervalue shopping centre in Lucan

When do you use a 22kw charger? Personally I'm never going to use one unless I am going shopping or for a meal or something and I will be an hour or more and in my view I think shopping centres / town centres etc are the ideal location. Normally its to break a long journey up for the kids and we go eat, use a play ground and come back with enough charge to go home or to final destination. Ideally they would have a max time limit as from what I can see a lot of people use them simply to save on parking charges in Cork and block their use for others.
Perhaps ideally commuter stations would have rows of them but thats not about to happen.

Ideally it'd be fcp's all round but give me a slow charge in a location with some sort of entertainment nearby then a slow in an isolated car park with nothing nearby but a glass bank any day.
Driving to kerry over the weekend I went via slow charge points rather then use the Killarney fcp as theres nothing there to do dragging toddlersaround and i'd guess a good chance of a queue on a bank holiday weekend.

ELM327 · 09-08-2017 2:50pm

Balmed Out wrote: »

When do you use a 22kw charger? Personally I'm never going to use one unless I am going shopping or for a meal or something and I will be an hour or more and in my view I think shopping centres / town centres etc are the ideal location. Normally its to break a long journey up for the kids and we go eat, use a play ground and come back with enough charge to go home or to final destination. Ideally they would have a max time limit as from what I can see a lot of people use them simply to save on parking charges in Cork and block their use for others.
Perhaps ideally commuter stations would have rows of them but thats not about to happen.

Ideally it'd be fcp's all round but give me a slow charge in a location with some sort of entertainment nearby then a slow in an isolated car park with nothing nearby but a glass bank any day.
Driving to kerry over the weekend I went via slow charge points rather then use the Killarney fcp as theres nothing there to do dragging toddlersaround and i'd guess a good chance of a queue on a bank holiday weekend.

I use a 22kW charger when I park up when I'm going for an evening walk after work. Approx 30 minutes -1 hour-2 hours depending on weather. If it's a good day and I get a 2 hour walk in, it's >50% added to the battery when I would be otherwise parked anyway and having to pay for the parking.

cros13 · 09-08-2017 3:09pm

unkel wrote: »

Which one? That's horrific BTW

Blanch last year, before Lucan, Donabate and Clonshaugh were CCS options. And CCS at the airport was down for almost 4 months.

unkel · 09-08-2017 3:25pm

ELM327 wrote: »

if you surveyed the majority of shoppers in Blanchardstown, Dundrum, Naas for their stay duration, it would be closer to 2 hours than 30 minutes. Except for the locals, who should not be using the FCP anyway.

My local FCP is Lucan. If you ask the majority of shoppers how long they would park there, I'd say it would be 30-60 minutes. Completely useless to hook up on a slow charger unless you needed it to get home.

Balmed Out wrote: »

When do you use a 22kw charger? Personally I'm never going to use one

Never really. The one time when I was in Cobh as I was the tourist and we were going to stay there for several hours anyway. But I would just as easily not have charged there but just charged in the rented holiday home on the granny cable. Or at a fast charger for 10 minutes.

ELM327 · 09-08-2017 3:43pm

unkel wrote: »

My local FCP is Lucan. If you ask the majority of shoppers how long they would park there, I'd say it would be 30-60 minutes. Completely useless to hook up on a slow charger unless you needed it to get home.

But you are not the target market for an FCP in Lucan, as you live there.
An FCP should be used enroute on a long trip, not as your daily charge!

60 minutes at a slow charger would give me ~30%.

cruizer101 · 09-08-2017 3:44pm

ELM327 wrote: »

If you support that, do you also support removing all petrol stations from the city centre?

There is very few petrol stations in Dublin city centre anyway. There is one along the quays and apart from that I think you are looking at outside of the north and south circular roads

ELM327 · 09-08-2017 3:52pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

There is very few petrol stations in Dublin city centre anyway. There is one along the quays and apart from that I think you are looking at outside of the north and south circular roads

The reason I asked the question was to see if it was an anti-EV or anti-motorist bias.

As mentioned if it's all forms of private ttransport then I support it!

liamog · 09-08-2017 6:33pm

cruizer101 wrote: »

There is very few petrol stations in Dublin city centre anyway. There is one along the quays and apart from that I think you are looking at outside of the north and south circular roads

Not many in the city centre, but there are loads in the Dublin Metropolitan Area.
Lots of these areas (especially the newer ones) are townhouses/apartments, it's a much more sustainable use of land compared to three bed semi d's with a front and rear garden.

We can either retrofit massive numbers of on-street chargers or install FCPs at places that people spend 30/45 mins, places like Lucan Shopping Centre, or Blanchardstown.
A car park with multiple 50kW chargers and local services will be a profitable enterprise, and much less risk than an SCP outside every house.

There is a place for home charging, and a place for local charging centres. To me the key difference is that charging in public spreads infrastructure costs across the nation and benefits the whole EV community. Charging at ELM327's house only benefits the electricity company and ELM327.

Location of public charge points

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