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"barrier free" M50 toll an absolute money extortion scam

2

Comments

  • #32
    nsa0bupkd3948x
    Closed Accounts Posts: 783 ✭✭✭nsa0bupkd3948x


    JJGael wrote: »
    That is incorrect. The trip was Saturday, got the letter in the post on Tuesday, already with the fine (which doubled the cost) and no prior communication before then. If you don't pay within 1 week they fine you 41 euro extra (for EACH unpaid toll). Yah, pretty reasonable, I'd say.

    I'd say if you ring/tweet them about it and offer to set up a video account they'll waive the fines and just charge you the basic toll amount. Of course you'll need to accept you made a mistake.

    However, I really would question how two of you missed all the signs about the toll. It's not like there is just one. There are loads and its written on the road.


  • #33
    JJGael
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭JJGael


    I like how you all focus on the "big sign" but completely disregard my argument about how reasonable it is to double the charge with no capping for anyone who happens to miss it. There's a difference between having to pay the consequences of a mistake and the amount you have to pay being fair, but I guess you don't think so. Remember this next time you miss something "obvious" on your holiday and end up having to pay fines and extra fees, like the myriad of people paying 40 euro for a bag with Ryanair. That's totally fair too.


  • #34
    IngazZagni
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,654 ✭✭✭IngazZagni


    It may not be the best system (although so much better than having a barrier causing even more gridlock on Ireland's largest car park) but it still doesn't excuse you from the fact that you didn't pay. You say you saw the signs. Huge signs as have been stated and they tell you different ways you can pay. But even if you forgot how to pay, why didn't you find out how to pay? You're able to post here on boards so it should be no problem for you to find out how to pay by using Google.
    Whether or not we should have to pay this toll is a different question.


  • #35
    nsa0bupkd3948x
    Closed Accounts Posts: 783 ✭✭✭nsa0bupkd3948x


    JJGael wrote: »
    I like how you focus on the "big sign" but completely disregard my argument about how reasonable it is to double the charge with no capping for anyone who happens to miss it. There's a difference between having to pay the consequences of a mistake and the amount you have to pay being fair, but I guess you don't think so. Remember this next time you miss something "obvious" on your holiday and end up having to pay fines and extra fees, like the myriad of people paying 40 euro for a bag with Ryanair. That's totally fair too.

    I have always found them to be very reasonable. Once I was driving through in a car without a tag and completely forgot to pay the toll. I was late making the payment on the website and tweeted them about it. They waived the fines for me.


  • #36
    OldMrBrennan83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,611 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


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  • #37
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 33,262 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    JJGael wrote: »
    I like how you all focus on the "big sign" but completely disregard my argument about how reasonable it is to double the charge with no capping for anyone who happens to miss it. There's a difference between having to pay the consequences of a mistake and the amount you have to pay being fair, but I guess you don't think so. Remember this next time you miss something "obvious" on your holiday and end up having to pay fines and extra fees, like the myriad of people paying 40 euro for a bag with Ryanair. That's totally fair too.

    But you had somewhere between 24 and 32 hours to figure out how to pay it.

    The reasonableness of the penalty for not paying it within the allowed time period is a completely different argument (which I suspect you're switching to as you have to concede defeat on your first argument:D)


  • #38
    howiya
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭howiya


    JJGael wrote: »
    I like how you all focus on the "big sign" but completely disregard my argument about how reasonable it is to double the charge with no capping for anyone who happens to miss it. There's a difference between having to pay the consequences of a mistake and the amount you have to pay being fair, but I guess you don't think so. Remember this next time you miss something "obvious" on your holiday and end up having to pay fines and extra fees, like the myriad of people paying 40 euro for a bag with Ryanair. That's totally fair too.

    If there were no consequences attached to not paying the toll, then people simply wouldn't pay it. Doubling it doesn't seem unreasonable.


  • #39
    jimmycrackcorm
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,371 ✭✭✭✭jimmycrackcorm


    JJGael wrote:
    The sign simply says "pay by 8pm" I'd hardly call it obvious that you have to download their stupid app to pay.

    What if you only have a Nokia 3310?

    People who can't read those big pay by 8pm signs and ignore what that means would not be able to download such an App.


  • #40
    JJGael
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭JJGael


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »
    But you had somewhere between 24 and 32 hours to figure out how to pay it.

    The reasonableness of the penalty for not paying it within the allowed time period is a completely different argument (which I suspect you're switching to as you have to concede defeat on your first argument:D)

    I'm not switching to anything, the main point was that it's ridiculous having to pay 15€ just for a trip to Dundrum, if anything my second argument was about the obviousness or not. You really think I would have even bothered posting for a 3.60 charge?


  • #41
    wally1990
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,243 ✭✭✭wally1990


    jimmycrackcorm wrote: »
    What if you only have a Nokia 3310?

    People who can't read those big pay by 8pm signs and ignore what that means would not be able to download such an App.

    Well you can pay
    online on a PC or smart phone
    Pay in a store /payzone with cash
    Pay using an app
    Pay over the phone with a person between 7-9
    Pay on their phone system 24/7

    Plenty of options of payment so can't argue there but yes it can be expensive if fines remain unpaid

    I was in Spain recently and all tolls were €3.70 a car and hit 6 each way! To and from my airport but it had barriers

    still expensive


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  • #42
    DaveyDave
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,604 ✭✭✭DaveyDave


    Hard to miss the "PAY BY 8PM" signs. Even if you did, surely if you passed through the massive toll itself you'd look into it when you're home. Why would you assume because there's no BOOTH, you skipped the toll? You think the signage is there for the craic? At that rate, EVERYBODY would skip the toll...

    It's not a way to extortion money out of visitors at all. I went through the exact same thing while driving in Orlando. They have barrier free tolls and a small pull-off area to the side off the motorway with several lanes for cash tolls and other types of barrier free tolls. I knew I went through a toll, it was bloody obvious. I also did my research beforehand. If I was to drive anywhere down the country I'd also do my research and see if there's a toll. If you have a smartphone use Google Maps and select "Avoid Tolls".

    I don't agree with the toll, it's a rip off but I live in Lucan and take the Blanchardstown exit to get to work. I go one exit and pay the toll yet I can drive all the way down to Dundrum which is a fair distance and not pay anything. Fortunately I work shifts and avoid rush hour so I drive the back roads and save €50-60 a month. If you commute daily it's actually quite a lot of money on top of fuel and insurance etc.


  • #43
    Stheno
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 51,685 Mod ✭✭✭✭Stheno


    JJGael wrote: »
    I'm not switching to anything, the main point was that it's ridiculous having to pay 15€ just for a trip to Dundrum, if anything my second argument was about the obviousness or not. You really think I would have even bothered posting for a 3.60 charge?

    The point is you didnt have to pay that much it was stupidity that caused you to have to


  • #44
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 33,262 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    JJGael wrote: »
    I'm not switching to anything, the main point was that it's ridiculous having to pay 15€ just for a trip to Dundrum, if anything my second argument was about the obviousness or not. You really think I would have even bothered posting for a 3.60 charge?

    But you didn't "have to pay €15" - can you really not see that? :confused:

    Like I said, you had between 24 and 32 hours to figure it out.

    If not, then I give up.


  • #45
    JJGael
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6 ✭JJGael


    howiya wrote: »
    If there were no consequences attached to not paying the toll, then people simply wouldn't pay it. Doubling it doesn't seem unreasonable.

    Yes sure, double it AFTER you've notified someone. First send a letter saying you have to pay 3.10 and if they don't pay then you double it. But if I missed the sign/system to begin with (regardless of how obvious it was), how am I supposed to know I have to pay? They sent the doubled up charges literally the next day after we didn't pay (because it was over the weekend).


  • #46
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,807 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    JJGael wrote: »
    I'm not switching to anything, the main point was that it's ridiculous having to pay 15€ just for a trip to Dundrum, if anything my second argument was about the obviousness or not. You really think I would have even bothered posting for a 3.60 charge?

    Your friend missed the multiple big signs warning there was a toll on the road, thus didn't pay and was fined accordingly. I don't see what's ridiculous about it.. besides as has been said, if she called them and explained they'd likely waive the fines anyway.

    The fact that you both missed these multiple signs IS the bigger issue though. If your friend is driving a car and managing to miss big, repeating, prominent signs and road markings then to be honest she probably shouldn't be on the road as she's a danger to herself and others.


  • #47
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 33,262 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    JJGael wrote: »
    Yes sure, double it AFTER you've notified someone. First send a letter saying you have to pay 3.10 and if they don't pay then you double it. But if I missed the sign/system to begin with (regardless of how obvious it was), how am I supposed to know I have to pay? They sent the doubled up charges literally the next day after we didn't pay (because it was over the weekend).

    But they did notify you - with multiple giant signs on the roadside, on gantries and on the road surface. Before and after the actual toll gantry.

    Seriously, what more do you want?


  • #48
    whippet
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,762 ✭✭✭whippet


    HeidiHeidi wrote: »

    Seriously, what more do you want?

    Is t it obvious ? The OP wants someone to empathise with them .. rub their hair and tell them they are right and the outside world is just one big nasty place with everyone out to get you.


  • #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 12,548 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I remember when I first moved here, I got caught out by the tolls. Anyway, called them when I got the letter and they waived all the extra charges. They probably saw that my reg had never been tolled before and that I wouldn't make the same mistake again. I found them very reasonable.

    Of course, these days I just use the M50 for free on my motorbike :cool:


  • #50
    howiya
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭howiya


    JJGael wrote: »
    Yes sure, double it AFTER you've notified someone. First send a letter saying you have to pay 3.10 and if they don't pay then you double it. But if I missed the sign/system to begin with (regardless of how obvious it was), how am I supposed to know I have to pay? They sent the doubled up charges literally the next day after we didn't pay (because it was over the weekend).

    I see somebody has beaten me to it but you've already been notified by the many many road signs and the road markings.


  • #51
    mrcheez
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,875 ✭✭✭✭mrcheez


    amcalester wrote: »
    Troll Toll alert.

    FYP


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  • #52
    Gerry T
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,623 ✭✭✭Gerry T


    JJGael wrote:
    Yes sure, double it AFTER you've notified someone. First send a letter saying you have to pay 3.10 and if they don't pay then you double it. But if I missed the sign/system to begin with (regardless of how obvious it was), how am I supposed to know I have to pay? They sent the doubled up charges literally the next day after we didn't pay (because it was over the weekend).


    If you don't pay all they have is a reg plate, it takes time and effort to find the registered owner and address. Your paying for that time and effort.
    If you wanted a warning letter, I guess that would be sent by registered mail and they would need to wait a week and again check if you paid, sure that would cost, let's say 20 euro--which you should pay. Either way it's an expensive trip.


  • #53
    Negative_G
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,472 ✭✭✭Negative_G


    JJGael wrote: »

    Long rant...

    Which lane were you driving in out of interest?


  • #54
    HeidiHeidi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 33,262 ✭✭✭✭HeidiHeidi


    Negative_G wrote: »
    Which lane were you driving in out of interest?

    :eek:


  • #55
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,740 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    why did you get the letter on tuesday if your friend from the country was the driver/owner of the car?
    That is incorrect. The trip was Saturday, got the letter in the post on Tuesday

    The toll has been around for years, has been highly publicised in the news from time to time, you cannot live in the country and fail to know about without some pretty serious hiding under rocks with fingers in your ears.


  • #56
    DivingDuck
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,394 ✭✭✭DivingDuck


    Have they removed the pay by phone option? The website makes no mention of it anymore:
    If you choose not to sign-up to auto-pay, then you will have to pay for your tolls manually. These payments must to be made before 8pm the day after you travel, otherwise a late payment penalty will be incurred. This can be done online here or at any Payzone retail outlet across Ireland.

    You can pay your M50 toll journeys on the M50 Quick Pay app. Just go to the Apple or Google stores, search for M50 Quick Pay and go from there.

    I'd have some sympathy for people in that instance. Neither of my parents have (or want) an app-capable phone, or would feel safe paying for anything online. I couldn't tell you where the nearest Payzone shop to me is, either.

    That said: the signage on the road itself is perfectly sufficient. If someone is new to the area, they should be paying enough attention to their surroundings to see it. It's also natural and necessary to create a fine system for non-payment, otherwise everyone would do it. If your friend contacts them and their car hasn't been through the tolls before, they might waive the fine and you'll just have to pay the toll you should have paid on the day.

    The issue of whether we should or shouldn't be paying tolls doesn't come into it; unless your friend wants to make a stand and engage in civil disobedience, the case here is simply whether they were properly notified that they'd have to pay, and were made aware of the methods for doing so. Based on the images of signage in this thread, I'd have to conclude that they were.


  • #57
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 7,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    JJGael wrote: »
    That is incorrect. The trip was Saturday, got the letter in the post on Tuesday, already with the fine (which doubled the cost) and no prior communication before then. If you don't pay within 1 week they fine you 41 euro extra (for EACH unpaid toll). Yah, pretty reasonable, I'd say.

    If you ring them up you can sometimes negotiate with them and they'll knock down the price. But seriously, how you can drive through the toll area and not see the road signs TWICE is fairly weak.


  • #58
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,187 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I rarely have to use the M50 toll, but when I am going to and from the Airport for example I prepay on the website for both trips.

    Then I can totally forget about it.


  • #59
    cc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭cc


    While we're at it, that road tax is a joke


  • #60
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 7,694 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    JJGael wrote: »
    Yes sure, double it AFTER you've notified someone. First send a letter saying you have to pay 3.10 and if they don't pay then you double it. But if I missed the sign/system to begin with (regardless of how obvious it was), how am I supposed to know I have to pay? They sent the doubled up charges literally the next day after we didn't pay (because it was over the weekend).

    Because the M50 till is different. They took away the gates to try and alleviate the week day traffic gridlock that used to build up because of them. But it's status hasn't changed, you are still passing through a toll area. Like any other toll point/bridge/whatever you call them, the toll becomes payable AT THE TIME YOU USE IT. If you come across any other toll area and you don't have the money, they don't say, sure, off you go, pay us when you can.


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  • #61
    Fighting Tao
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,514 ✭✭✭Fighting Tao


    I would play you the saddest song ever on my tiny violin but unfortunately I broke a couple of strings when I read the clamping one minute outside of grace period thread.


This discussion has been closed.
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