"barrier free" M50 toll an absolute money extortion scam

JJGael

Maybe a strong title for this post but I'm honestly appalled by this terrible system they have in place on the M50.

Now, I don't drive so I never paid much attention to this but recently a friend of mine who lives outside Dublin came visiting and then she found herself with 30 euro (yes, THIRTY) of charges + fines because we passed under the M50 "barrier-free" toll, as they call it.

She came visiting and we drove in the surrounding Dublin area. We went to Dundrum and ended up having to pay 15 euro in tolls just for that.

For her (and me) a "toll" is a gate where a person or machine asks for money so you can go through. Because we didn't see this, we assumed we skipped the tolls. INSTEAD, not only you have no idea you went through a toll, you also have to do research and find out how to pay it, otherwise they send a bill to your house which is DOUBLE the toll fee.

If we knew this is the way it worked we would have used different roads, spent the extra 10 minutes and avoided a 15€ charge.

Is it just me or does this sound like a complete ripoff, a sneaky way to extort money out of clueless visitors? Like, how is someone who doesn't frequently commute around the Dublin area know that there is such a thing and that you need to install an app to pay it? I'd say most people would only find out about it after they get home and have to pay doubled up fees, like my friend did.

amcalester

There's massive signs up saying pay before 8pm.

Massive.

magicbastarder

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3695143,-6.3781598,3a,75y,215.02h,111.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Lb92A-LTxIx71iPA2tt_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

The high horse brigade

What rock have you and your friend been living under?

amcalester

Troll alert.

vicwatson

We also paid €12,000,000.00 to NTR each year for 5 YEARS to put it into state ownership, and they still charge the motorist

theteal

I had to check the date on th OP as it read like a zombie thread from a long long time ago


As above. Massive signs everywhere. Must pay more attention when driving.

brownbinman

vicwatson wrote: »

We also paid €12,000,000.00 to NTR each year for 5 YEARS to put it into state ownership, and they still charge the motorist

why did you think they wouldn't charge us for it?

HeidiHeidi

If you don't have an account it's €3.10 to pass through the M50 toll - not €15, or €30.

And as pointed out above, there are MASSIVE signs in the half-mile leading up to it, and (AFAIR) one or more after you pass through, and it's painted on the road.

Where were ye looking?

Mrs OBumble

I'd suggest that your friend catches the bus next time s/he visits Dublin - it sounds like their eyesight isn't good enough for driving any more.

HeidiHeidi

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd suggest that your friend catches the bus next time s/he visits Dublin - it sounds like their eyesight isn't good enough for driving any more.

I wouldn't mind but there were 2 of them in the car :eek:

Andy Magic

You'll get no sympathy here, the most vocal Irish people are happy to pay tolls on top of the motor tax.. I'm not though

mickoneill31

So you'd prefer the old way op? Queuing for half an hour to get through it.

Collie D

vicwatson wrote: »

We also paid €12,000,000.00 to NTR each year for 5 YEARS to put it into state ownership, and they still charge the motorist

Andy Magic wrote: »

You'll get no sympathy here, the most vocal Irish people are happy to pay tolls on top of the motor tax.. I'm not though

Regardless of whether there should be a toll or not the OP's main complaint seems to be that this was some kind of toll by stealth when they really couldn't have failed to notice the signs

Dial Hard

Andy Magic wrote:

You'll get no sympathy here, the most vocal Irish people are happy to pay tolls on top of the motor tax.. I'm not though

Nobody likes paying the toll, but it's difficult to be sympathetic towards two people who both somehow managed to miss the plethora of signs both before, at and after the toll.

brownbinman

In fairness my wife does the same. She continues driving on sunny day with wipers going, it's infuriating

jack presley

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I'd suggest that your friend catches the bus next time s/he visits Dublin - it sounds like their eyesight isn't good enough for driving any more.

And they should avoid talking to the wallet inspectors when they get there too!

highdef

As mentioned, the signs are absolutely massive and if your friend (and to a lesser extent yourself, as you are merely a passenger) did not see them (not just once but multiple times), then I would be wary of being a passenger in future as he/she is obviously driving without due care and attention by being oblivious to impossible to miss unless you're paying absolutely no attention to the road and your surroundings sized signage!
If I was in your position, I certainly would not be very worried about not paying the tolls that are due and would be more interested in my own safety when travelling with my attention deficient friend.

mikeecho

andekwarhola

If you can't see those signs, fcuk knows what other stuff you're not noticing on the roads.

JJGael

The sign simply says "pay by 8pm" I'd hardly call it obvious that you have to download their stupid app to pay. I was looking at directions on the map so definitely not looking at signs. You honestly think that someone who's NEVER been through a toll that doesn't have some kind of gate (even with electronic tag) is assumed to know how this works? Then I guess next time you do something for the first time and get it wrong you'd consider it completely fair for everyone around you to laugh and call you an idiot.

If you leave a supermarket and there's a stack of newspapers and a sign saying "pay 3 at the exit" so you grab one but at the exit there's nobody to pay to, nor any machines to pay at and you CANNOT drop the newspaper, so you HAVE to take it home, you'd be completely fine if you got a letter in the post the next day saying you have to pay 6 because you left without paying?

For the person who said it's 3.10 not 15, you clearly haven't read my message or lack basic math skills. It's 3.10 if you pay immediately but if you don't know you have to pay and go home, they send you a bill double that, for a return trip that's 12.20, plus we had to pay a regular 1.90 when going through a regular toll, which comes to a total of 14.10 for a trip to Dundrum.

And I don't understand all this defensiveness, like it's your company you have to defend, what's up with that? YES you do have to pay tolls if you choose to use the roads that have tolls, but this doesn't even give you the choice. And why DOUBLE the fee when they send the bill at home? Also, how is it not capped to a maximum? You're telling me if a tourist comes for the first time to Dublin and takes the wrong road and ends up going under that toll 6 times, they're gonna get a bill of 36.60? You think that's totally reasonable I suppose?

The high horse brigade

Once again I ask what rock you've been living under

HeidiHeidi

magicbastarder wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.3695143,-6.3781598,3a,75y,215.02h,111.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s-Lb92A-LTxIx71iPA2tt_Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

There's the big sign (one of them, there's loads) giving you a website, a phone number, and saying "Payzone" which I'm sure if you googled you'd find out handy enough means you can pay in pretty much any petrol station in the country.

It also says, very clearly, "Pay by 8pm tomorrow", so you had all that time to figure it out.

You'd nearly want to be trying not to see all the information.

HeidiHeidi

JJGael wrote: »

The sign simply says "pay by 8pm" I'd hardly call it obvious that you have to download their stupid app to pay. I was looking at directions on the map so definitely not looking at signs. You honestly think that someone who's NEVER been through a toll that doesn't have some kind of gate (even with electronic tag) is assumed to know how this works? Then I guess next time you do something for the first time and get it wrong you'd consider it completely fair for everyone around you to laugh and call you an idiot.

If you leave a supermarket and there's a stack of newspapers and a sign saying "pay 3 at the exit" so you grab one but at the exit there's nobody to pay to, nor any machines to pay at and you CANNOT drop the newspaper, so you HAVE to take it home, you'd be completely fine if you got a letter in the post the next day saying you have to pay 6 because you left without paying?

For the person who said it's 3.10 not 15, you clearly haven't read my message or lack basic math skills. It's 3.10 if you pay immediately but if you don't know you have to pay and go home, they send you a bill double that, for a return trip that's 12.20, plus we had to pay a regular 1.90 when going through a regular toll, which comes to a total of 14.10 for a trip to Dundrum.

And I don't understand all this defensiveness, like it's your company you have to defend, what's up with that? YES you do have to pay tolls if you choose to use the roads that have tolls, but this doesn't even give you the choice. And why DOUBLE the fee when they send the bill at home? Also, how is it not capped to a maximum? You're telling me if a tourist comes for the first time to Dublin and takes the wrong road and ends up going under that toll 6 times, they're gonna get a bill of 36.60? You think that's totally reasonable I suppose?

That would be me who said that.

It's 3.10 if you "Pay by 8pm tomorrow". AFAIK you need to not pay for about three or four days before they'll start penalising you (open to correction on that) and quite a while before you'll get a bill in the post. When did you get the bill, compared to when you made the journey?

JJGael

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

That would be me who said that.

It's 3.10 if you "Pay by 8pm tomorrow". AFAIK you need to not pay for about three or four days before they'll start penalising you (open to correction on that) and quite a while before you'll get a bill in the post. When did you get the bill, compared to when you made the journey?

That is incorrect. The trip was Saturday, got the letter in the post on Tuesday, already with the fine (which doubled the cost) and no prior communication before then. If you don't pay within 1 week they fine you 41 euro extra (for EACH unpaid toll). Yah, pretty reasonable, I'd say.

howiya

JJGael wrote: »

The sign simply says "pay by 8pm" I'd hardly call it obvious that you have to download their stupid app to pay. I was looking at directions on the map so definitely not looking at signs. You honestly think that someone who's NEVER been through a toll that doesn't have some kind of gate (even with electronic tag) is assumed to know how this works? Then I guess next time you do something for the first time and get it wrong you'd consider it completely fair for everyone around you to laugh and call you an idiot.

If you leave a supermarket and there's a stack of newspapers and a sign saying "pay 3 at the exit" so you grab one but at the exit there's nobody to pay to, nor any machines to pay at and you CANNOT drop the newspaper, so you HAVE to take it home, you'd be completely fine if you got a letter in the post the next day saying you have to pay 6 because you left without paying?

For the person who said it's 3.10 not 15, you clearly haven't read my message or lack basic math skills. It's 3.10 if you pay immediately but if you don't know you have to pay and go home, they send you a bill double that, for a return trip that's 12.20, plus we had to pay a regular 1.90 when going through a regular toll, which comes to a total of 14.10 for a trip to Dundrum.

And I don't understand all this defensiveness, like it's your company you have to defend, what's up with that? YES you do have to pay tolls if you choose to use the roads that have tolls, but this doesn't even give you the choice. And why DOUBLE the fee when they send the bill at home? Also, how is it not capped to a maximum? You're telling me if a tourist comes for the first time to Dublin and takes the wrong road and ends up going under that toll 6 times, they're gonna get a bill of 36.60? You think that's totally reasonable I suppose?

There are signs warning about the toll prior to the last exit before the toll in both directions. To say you don't have a choice or chance to avoid the toll on the M50 is simply not true.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

bee06

OP, I live outside of Dublin and when I went through the toll first time I knew how it worked. The big signs saying Toll, pay by 8pm etc gave it away to me that there was something here I needed to pay attention to. Ignorance is no defence.

_Kaiser_

JJGael wrote: »

The sign simply says "pay by 8pm" I'd hardly call it obvious that you have to download their stupid app to pay. I was looking at directions on the map so definitely not looking at signs. You honestly think that someone who's NEVER been through a toll that doesn't have some kind of gate (even with electronic tag) is assumed to know how this works? Then I guess next time you do something for the first time and get it wrong you'd consider it completely fair for everyone around you to laugh and call you an idiot.

If you leave a supermarket and there's a stack of newspapers and a sign saying "pay 3 at the exit" so you grab one but at the exit there's nobody to pay to, nor any machines to pay at and you CANNOT drop the newspaper, so you HAVE to take it home, you'd be completely fine if you got a letter in the post the next day saying you have to pay 6 because you left without paying?

For the person who said it's 3.10 not 15, you clearly haven't read my message or lack basic math skills. It's 3.10 if you pay immediately but if you don't know you have to pay and go home, they send you a bill double that, for a return trip that's 12.20, plus we had to pay a regular 1.90 when going through a regular toll, which comes to a total of 14.10 for a trip to Dundrum.

And I don't understand all this defensiveness, like it's your company you have to defend, what's up with that? YES you do have to pay tolls if you choose to use the roads that have tolls, but this doesn't even give you the choice. And why DOUBLE the fee when they send the bill at home? Also, how is it not capped to a maximum? You're telling me if a tourist comes for the first time to Dublin and takes the wrong road and ends up going under that toll 6 times, they're gonna get a bill of 36.60? You think that's totally reasonable I suppose?

For reference for you and your friend OP...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xk_5m55oUJ0

But seriously, how did you/your friend miss this?



.. and there's plenty of other signs before it too. If this is a genuine thread then I'd agree that your friend really needs to do something about her observation skills when driving.

HeidiHeidi

Oh yes, and what app?

There's a website, a phone number and Payzone - I've never heard of an app!

magicbastarder

i still don't get the bit where you drove through the section that has 'TOLL' painted on the road, and 'TOLL HERE' on at least one large gantry sign, and somehow thought you missed the tolls?

nsa0bupkd3948x

JJGael wrote: »

That is incorrect. The trip was Saturday, got the letter in the post on Tuesday, already with the fine (which doubled the cost) and no prior communication before then. If you don't pay within 1 week they fine you 41 euro extra (for EACH unpaid toll). Yah, pretty reasonable, I'd say.

I'd say if you ring/tweet them about it and offer to set up a video account they'll waive the fines and just charge you the basic toll amount. Of course you'll need to accept you made a mistake.

However, I really would question how two of you missed all the signs about the toll. It's not like there is just one. There are loads and its written on the road.

JJGael

I like how you all focus on the "big sign" but completely disregard my argument about how reasonable it is to double the charge with no capping for anyone who happens to miss it. There's a difference between having to pay the consequences of a mistake and the amount you have to pay being fair, but I guess you don't think so. Remember this next time you miss something "obvious" on your holiday and end up having to pay fines and extra fees, like the myriad of people paying 40 euro for a bag with Ryanair. That's totally fair too.

IngazZagni

It may not be the best system (although so much better than having a barrier causing even more gridlock on Ireland's largest car park) but it still doesn't excuse you from the fact that you didn't pay. You say you saw the signs. Huge signs as have been stated and they tell you different ways you can pay. But even if you forgot how to pay, why didn't you find out how to pay? You're able to post here on boards so it should be no problem for you to find out how to pay by using Google.
Whether or not we should have to pay this toll is a different question.

nsa0bupkd3948x

JJGael wrote: »

I like how you focus on the "big sign" but completely disregard my argument about how reasonable it is to double the charge with no capping for anyone who happens to miss it. There's a difference between having to pay the consequences of a mistake and the amount you have to pay being fair, but I guess you don't think so. Remember this next time you miss something "obvious" on your holiday and end up having to pay fines and extra fees, like the myriad of people paying 40 euro for a bag with Ryanair. That's totally fair too.

I have always found them to be very reasonable. Once I was driving through in a car without a tag and completely forgot to pay the toll. I was late making the payment on the website and tweeted them about it. They waived the fines for me.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

HeidiHeidi

JJGael wrote: »

I like how you all focus on the "big sign" but completely disregard my argument about how reasonable it is to double the charge with no capping for anyone who happens to miss it. There's a difference between having to pay the consequences of a mistake and the amount you have to pay being fair, but I guess you don't think so. Remember this next time you miss something "obvious" on your holiday and end up having to pay fines and extra fees, like the myriad of people paying 40 euro for a bag with Ryanair. That's totally fair too.

But you had somewhere between 24 and 32 hours to figure out how to pay it.

The reasonableness of the penalty for not paying it within the allowed time period is a completely different argument (which I suspect you're switching to as you have to concede defeat on your first argument:D)

howiya

JJGael wrote: »

I like how you all focus on the "big sign" but completely disregard my argument about how reasonable it is to double the charge with no capping for anyone who happens to miss it. There's a difference between having to pay the consequences of a mistake and the amount you have to pay being fair, but I guess you don't think so. Remember this next time you miss something "obvious" on your holiday and end up having to pay fines and extra fees, like the myriad of people paying 40 euro for a bag with Ryanair. That's totally fair too.

If there were no consequences attached to not paying the toll, then people simply wouldn't pay it. Doubling it doesn't seem unreasonable.

jimmycrackcorm

JJGael wrote:

The sign simply says "pay by 8pm" I'd hardly call it obvious that you have to download their stupid app to pay.

What if you only have a Nokia 3310?

People who can't read those big pay by 8pm signs and ignore what that means would not be able to download such an App.

JJGael

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

But you had somewhere between 24 and 32 hours to figure out how to pay it.

The reasonableness of the penalty for not paying it within the allowed time period is a completely different argument (which I suspect you're switching to as you have to concede defeat on your first argument:D)

I'm not switching to anything, the main point was that it's ridiculous having to pay 15€ just for a trip to Dundrum, if anything my second argument was about the obviousness or not. You really think I would have even bothered posting for a 3.60 charge?

wally1990

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

What if you only have a Nokia 3310?

People who can't read those big pay by 8pm signs and ignore what that means would not be able to download such an App.

Well you can pay
online on a PC or smart phone
Pay in a store /payzone with cash
Pay using an app
Pay over the phone with a person between 7-9
Pay on their phone system 24/7

Plenty of options of payment so can't argue there but yes it can be expensive if fines remain unpaid

I was in Spain recently and all tolls were €3.70 a car and hit 6 each way! To and from my airport but it had barriers

still expensive

DaveyDave

Hard to miss the "PAY BY 8PM" signs. Even if you did, surely if you passed through the massive toll itself you'd look into it when you're home. Why would you assume because there's no BOOTH, you skipped the toll? You think the signage is there for the craic? At that rate, EVERYBODY would skip the toll...

It's not a way to extortion money out of visitors at all. I went through the exact same thing while driving in Orlando. They have barrier free tolls and a small pull-off area to the side off the motorway with several lanes for cash tolls and other types of barrier free tolls. I knew I went through a toll, it was bloody obvious. I also did my research beforehand. If I was to drive anywhere down the country I'd also do my research and see if there's a toll. If you have a smartphone use Google Maps and select "Avoid Tolls".

I don't agree with the toll, it's a rip off but I live in Lucan and take the Blanchardstown exit to get to work. I go one exit and pay the toll yet I can drive all the way down to Dundrum which is a fair distance and not pay anything. Fortunately I work shifts and avoid rush hour so I drive the back roads and save €50-60 a month. If you commute daily it's actually quite a lot of money on top of fuel and insurance etc.

Stheno

JJGael wrote: »

I'm not switching to anything, the main point was that it's ridiculous having to pay 15€ just for a trip to Dundrum, if anything my second argument was about the obviousness or not. You really think I would have even bothered posting for a 3.60 charge?

The point is you didnt have to pay that much it was stupidity that caused you to have to

HeidiHeidi

JJGael wrote: »

I'm not switching to anything, the main point was that it's ridiculous having to pay 15€ just for a trip to Dundrum, if anything my second argument was about the obviousness or not. You really think I would have even bothered posting for a 3.60 charge?

But you didn't "have to pay €15" - can you really not see that?

Like I said, you had between 24 and 32 hours to figure it out.

If not, then I give up.

JJGael

howiya wrote: »

If there were no consequences attached to not paying the toll, then people simply wouldn't pay it. Doubling it doesn't seem unreasonable.

Yes sure, double it AFTER you've notified someone. First send a letter saying you have to pay 3.10 and if they don't pay then you double it. But if I missed the sign/system to begin with (regardless of how obvious it was), how am I supposed to know I have to pay? They sent the doubled up charges literally the next day after we didn't pay (because it was over the weekend).

_Kaiser_

JJGael wrote: »

I'm not switching to anything, the main point was that it's ridiculous having to pay 15€ just for a trip to Dundrum, if anything my second argument was about the obviousness or not. You really think I would have even bothered posting for a 3.60 charge?

Your friend missed the multiple big signs warning there was a toll on the road, thus didn't pay and was fined accordingly. I don't see what's ridiculous about it.. besides as has been said, if she called them and explained they'd likely waive the fines anyway.

The fact that you both missed these multiple signs IS the bigger issue though. If your friend is driving a car and managing to miss big, repeating, prominent signs and road markings then to be honest she probably shouldn't be on the road as she's a danger to herself and others.

HeidiHeidi

JJGael wrote: »

Yes sure, double it AFTER you've notified someone. First send a letter saying you have to pay 3.10 and if they don't pay then you double it. But if I missed the sign/system to begin with (regardless of how obvious it was), how am I supposed to know I have to pay? They sent the doubled up charges literally the next day after we didn't pay (because it was over the weekend).

But they did notify you - with multiple giant signs on the roadside, on gantries and on the road surface. Before and after the actual toll gantry.

Seriously, what more do you want?

whippet

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

Seriously, what more do you want?

Is t it obvious ? The OP wants someone to empathise with them .. rub their hair and tell them they are right and the outside world is just one big nasty place with everyone out to get you.

I remember when I first moved here, I got caught out by the tolls. Anyway, called them when I got the letter and they waived all the extra charges. They probably saw that my reg had never been tolled before and that I wouldn't make the same mistake again. I found them very reasonable.

Of course, these days I just use the M50 for free on my motorbike :cool:

howiya

JJGael wrote: »

Yes sure, double it AFTER you've notified someone. First send a letter saying you have to pay 3.10 and if they don't pay then you double it. But if I missed the sign/system to begin with (regardless of how obvious it was), how am I supposed to know I have to pay? They sent the doubled up charges literally the next day after we didn't pay (because it was over the weekend).

I see somebody has beaten me to it but you've already been notified by the many many road signs and the road markings.

mrcheez

amcalester wrote: »

Troll Toll alert.

FYP