Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

Rossi IRL · 31-07-2017 08:36PM

Lord TSC wrote: »

Dat Fifa Hyperlink.

My thoughts exactly

Johner · 31-07-2017 08:36PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Dunno lads not much in the passing but matic had plenty assists last year compared to Carrick and Carrick statically beat him all over place in defence.

Matic's defensive stats from last year won't look great as he had Kante doing the same job beside him. He was allowed to get forward a bit more because of Kante as well so that's probably why he got a few more assists. His short passing is decent but he wouldn't have the vision of Carrick but that won't be his job anyway. He'll have a very specific role in a Jose team that will allow Herrera and Pogba to do their stuff.

adox · 31-07-2017 08:46PM

I know people love posting stats but(and I don't mean this in a condescending way even though it will probably sound like it) I form my opinion on watching players and how I think they play the game rather than looking up their stats.

Lithium93_ · 31-07-2017 08:49PM

adox wrote: »

I know people love posting stats but(and I don't mean this in a condescending way even though it will probably sound like it) I form my opinion on watching players and how I think they play the game rather than looking up their stats.

I'm with ya on the watching, but each to their own.

Trigger · 31-07-2017 08:52PM

adox wrote: »

I know people love posting stats but(and I don't mean this in a condescending way even though it will probably sound like it) I form my opinion on watching players and how I think they play the game rather than looking up their stats.

I'm generally the same but don't mind using stats to back up the opinion I've formed watching

StringerBell · 31-07-2017 08:56PM

adox wrote: »

I know people love posting stats but(and I don't mean this in a condescending way even though it will probably sound like it) I form my opinion on watching players and how I think they play the game rather than looking up their stats.

Stats are good to use at times, but the danger is when you simply take them at face value rather then digging a little deeper into them. Context is obviously huge, even if you were to use Matic stats in Jose's first or second season back versus last season it would add some more relevance to them imo.

They will add some colour for sure but they do not provide the full picture, a useful tool when creating a big picture.

jayo26 · 31-07-2017 08:59PM

adox wrote: »

I know people love posting stats but(and I don't mean this in a condescending way even though it will probably sound like it) I form my opinion on watching players and how I think they play the game rather than looking up their stats.

I post on watching games too adox and I post stats if i need to back up my opinions unlike other people and that's not aimed at any of you here tonight your opinions on him are pretty accurate 2 years ago where as I was judging him on what I seen last season and I posted stats to back it up.

I agree his role last year changed I think it was as much to do with conte expecting him to be more adventurous as it was to do with kante aying beside him I so said that here couple weeks ago when someone said he was a Chelsham cast off. Conte wants two midfielders to run up and down the pitch more instead of having Matic just sit back.

I still stand bye my opinion that Matic is better passing he has more assists on a season then I think Carrick ever had and chances created but that's just a matter of opinion from watching him play.

MagicIRL · 31-07-2017 09:01PM

Matic is the exact type of player United needed to buy. Premier league winning experience which the squad now lacks, has worked with José in the past and is 7 years younger than the man currently playing in his same position.

Its a fantastic signing and allows Pogba to play a lot freer than last season, too.

I can't really believe people are questioning him over Monaco's Fabinho, when Matic is everything the midfield is currently lacking with proven Premier League winning experience.

bangkok · 31-07-2017 09:11PM

Carrick is/was miles better than Matic.

Still is a much better passer of the ball and probably still better at reading of the game.

Carricks age is catching up with him the same way it catches up with all the great players. He still has all the ability just doesnt have the legs anymore. Will still play a big part though this season

user2011 · 31-07-2017 09:26PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Similar to Carrick but 7 years younger and probably better passing but I think Carrick even last year has the edge defensively.

:eek:

Respect you as a contributor here but.. wtf? Mental.

I bet your hoping right now this falls by way side, quickly :pac:

jayo26 · 31-07-2017 09:37PM

user2011 wrote: »

:eek:

Respect you as a contributor here but.. wtf? Mental.

I bet your hoping right now this falls by way side, quickly :pac:

Lol what's the big deal here he assist more then Carrick and creates more then Carrick and has similar passing percentages so why is it a shock that someone has an opinion he is a better passer then Carrick?

Liam McPoyle · 31-07-2017 09:47PM

Man that transfer thread is some fantastic reading.

Talk about gymnastics.

bangkok · 31-07-2017 09:49PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Lol what's the big deal here he assist more then Carrick and creates more then Carrick and has similar passing percentages so why is it a shock that someone has an opinion he is a better passer then Carrick?

Assisting and creating more doesnt make him a better passer in fairness. Carricks passing is one of his best atributes and is known all across europe

StringerBell · 31-07-2017 09:50PM

Probably as Carrick is well known for his quality passing, whereas you wouldn't necessarily associate Matic with the same calibre of passing.

Its not a big deal though, people see things differently a **** load of times during a game never mind over the course of a career

jayo26 · 31-07-2017 09:53PM

bangkok wrote: »

Assisting and creating more doesnt make him a better passer in fairness. Carricks passing is one of his best atributes and is known all across europe

But then you could say his ball retention is better but in my opinion if a player is creating and assisting with his passing that's better then someone that is just passing to the person beside them and leaving them create.

I'm not knocking Carrick he has been an excellent player for us and he really has and I don't think he is a bad passers-by either its just my opinion that if someone is doing more then just retaining the ball they are better passer.

pjohnson · 31-07-2017 09:56PM

Matic is a quicker player so he tended to charge forward more than Carrick would have last year. Naturally being further forward allowed Matic a greater chance of making the "assist" pass.

Also Matic wasnt as strictly consigned to the DM role in Conte's side. He had more freedom than usual to wander forward while Kante/Luiz slotted in if he was out of position. He'll have a stricter role this year.

Ninthlife · 31-07-2017 09:58PM

With Carrick being captain and Matic just signed where does either fit in?

Does the club captain sit on the bench, i know Rooney did will it be the same for Catrick

31-07-2017 09:58PM

It's only just sinking in now, we've finally bought our DM. I know bad things could happen - He could flop, he could get injured long-term in one of his first few games, we're by no means home and dry. But it's a great step forward and the pieces required for a serious title challenge are gradually slotting into place. These are starting to look like two very good Summer windows for Jose at United.

I would have taken Matic in a heartbeat a few seasons ago, but I will admit that when his name started to get linked with us for this Summer, at first I was a bit underwhelmed. The more I thought of it though, the more it made sense and I'm very happy to see him signed.

I guess the main reasons I was underwhelmed were because he isn't a shiny superstar signing, which is mainly superficial and irrelevant. The second reason was because of his slight dip in form since that final season when Jose won the title with Chelsea. But...almost every player regressed that following season (under Jose, yes) and then last season Chelsea/Matic had Kante doing a lot of the donkey work in the middle.

A midfield three of Matic, Pogba and Herrera. On paper, that is something to get excited about. If Jose can get this ticking and get a fair run at it (no injuries early on in the season to any of those 3) the results could be very successful.

He's not the shiny Galactico that some of us might have been looking for, but potentially he's an extremely important signing for us. You might even say that he's Jose's most pragMatic signing (fúck it, I'm not sorry) of his tenure at United yet. We have talent and potential in abundance with Herrera and Pogba in the middle, but with Matic we're getting a recent multiple PL winner. He could be the rug that ties the room together.

I'm slowly getting from a place of wariness over the season's start to one where I'm thinking "Right, let's do this." Hopefully Matic can get some decent minutes in the two remaining preseason games.

bangkok · 31-07-2017 09:58PM

jayo26 wrote: »

But then you could say his ball retention is better but in my opinion if a player is creating and assisting with his passing that's better then someone that is just passing to the person beside them and leaving them create.

I'm not knocking Carrick he has been an excellent player for us and he really has and I don't think he is a bad passers-by either its just my opinion that if someone is doing more then just retaining the ball they are better passer.

Ah its chalk and cheese in fairness. Carricks passing has been miles better all throughout his career. Tom Cleverly probably had more assists than Carrick when they played together!! Carrick assists the assister!

ollkiller · 31-07-2017 09:58PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Dunno lads not much in the passing but matic had plenty assists last year compared to Carrick and Carrick statically beat him all over place in defence.

You can show all the stats in the world, and matic can string a pass together but never, in a million years is he a better passer than Carrick.The way Carrick caresses the ball is just beautiful.

So matic wouldn't have been my first choice but he's proven in the premier league and if he frees up pogba like he should it's a win win. Now do we get another. I really want martial to get a proper run on the left this year. So if we do buy another it'd want to be someone like bale. Roll on Sunday week.

bangkok · 31-07-2017 10:00PM

Ninthlife wrote: »

With Carrick being captain and Matic just signed where does either fit in?

Does the club captain sit on the bench, i know Rooney did will it be the same for Catrick

Carrick is club captain. A bit like john terry or per mertesaker, wont be in the team much but is the most respected player at the club

user2011 · 31-07-2017 10:01PM

jayo26 wrote: »

Lol what's the big deal here he assist more then Carrick and creates more then Carrick and has similar passing percentages so why is it a shock that someone has an opinion he is a better passer then Carrick?

Firstly, a player who has just played in a side that has won the league in a formation that actually doesn't have a designated DM, it's more a pivot. How about showing his time under Jose versus Carricks time under Jose? 4-3-3 for the majority, I know we changed formations a few times last season but all in all we were 4-3-3.

Secondly, compare them both under title winning seasons.. Stats at the best of times they are skewed, just watch football and you'll know who the better player is in each department. (not saying you don't)

Lastly, Carricks best attribute is his passing then reading of the game.

31-07-2017 10:06PM

Ninthlife wrote: »

With Carrick being captain and Matic just signed where does either fit in?

Does the club captain sit on the bench, i know Rooney did will it be the same for Catrick

I reckon with the United captaincy under Mourinho, Jose is using it to be respectful to the senior players he has in his squad, those last few Ferguson Era players who are still there.

When Carrick was announced as captain earlier in the Summer, with Herrera vice-captain, I took that as a way of Jose getting two birds stoned at once: Pay respect to Carrick, but indirectly make Herrera captain who would likely play more games than Carrick.

It will be interesting to see. In preseason, a few different players have worn the armband. I wonder will this continue into the season, or will it be something more settled. Either way, I don't think it's that important nowadays. Once the players show character and leadership, which the likes of Herrera does at times, who actually wears the armband isn't what it used to be.

mewe · 31-07-2017 10:09PM

Carrick is a way better passer of the ball than Matic. Having more assists doesn't equate to having more ability as a passer of the ball either.

Ninthlife · 31-07-2017 10:14PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I reckon with the United captaincy under Mourinho, Jose is using it to be respectful to the senior players he has in his squad, those last few Ferguson Era players who are still there.

When Carrick was announced as captain earlier in the Summer, with Herrera vice-captain, I took that as a way of Jose getting two birds stoned at once: Pay respect to Carrick, but indirectly make Herrera captain who would likely play more games than Carrick.

It will be interesting to see. In preseason, a few different players have worn the armband. I wonder will this continue into the season, or will it be something more settled. Either way, I don't think it's that important nowadays. Once the players show character and leadership, which the likes of Herrera does at times, who actually wears the armband isn't what it used to be.

As much as I like Valencia as captain on the field i always thought he seems a bit quiet. I know its hard to tell from watching on tv but look at Herrera and he always looks vocal and can be seen organising set pieces and positions. Carrick the same seems quiet but i suppose its the calm stability he brings that makes the difference.

IamtheWalrus · 31-07-2017 10:16PM

Any truth to the Coutinho rumours?

Hococop · 31-07-2017 10:18PM

IamtheWalrus wrote: »

Any truth to the Coutinho rumours?

Even if barca bid, no way would Liverpool sell, I could see a ronaldo type deal, stay another year and then you can go

Also why did it take so long for the blind and Jones thing to be released, you would figure it would have been announced a week or 2 after the final

The_Kew_Tour · 31-07-2017 10:20PM

I think we are getting a little OTT on Carrick and his passing ability. He was a good decent player on the ball but he was no Xavi or Pirlo.

His best abilities have not been mentioned. Carrick passing in top games was nothing out of the ordinary.

Im a Carrick fan and appreciate his efforts for the club, but no way for was he a super passer either

caviardreams · 31-07-2017 10:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When Carrick was announced as captain earlier in the Summer, with Herrera vice-captain, I took that as a way of Jose getting two birds stoned at once: Pay respect to Carrick, but indirectly make Herrera captain who would likely play more games than Carrick.

Was Herrera announced as vice captain? I thought Jose said he wasn't having a designated vice captain?

Totally agree though that Herrera would be a great captain. In another year when Carrick goes, maybe Pogba would too.

MagicIRL · 31-07-2017 10:33PM

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

He was a good decent player on the ball but he was no Xavi or Pirlo.

Legend.

Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 2017

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