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1.2million a MONTH for speed camera vans

2

Comments

  • #32
    KindOfIrish
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 454 ✭✭KindOfIrish


    markpb wrote: »
    People need to get over this. Irish companies win contracts abroad. Foreign companies win contracts here. Ryanair make the bulk of their money abroad. CRH make billions abroad. Kerrygroup operate around the world. ESB make a pile of money providing consultancy services abroad. DAA operate an airport in Saudi Arabia. It's the way of the world (or at least the EU). It's not a bad thing.

    Isle of Man is a tax heaven. I can guaranty that the "foreign company" is set up by Irish to avoid Irish taxes.


  • #33
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TallGlass wrote: »
    They tendered it out and agreed a contract with them which favors the company more than the tax payer, one of the parts of the contract stated it would pay near 1500€ for court appearances, they should be summonsed and paid normal daily pay, like anyone else summonsed to court.

    It is a gravy train, AGS can carry out this function if they hired more Gardaí to do it, no need for a tender in the first place. AGS have greater powers than a van on the side of the road. What good is a van flashing a speeding car, flying up the road, with a drunk driver behind the wheel, just about to cause a serious accident?

    Bullshít. :rolleyes:
    If Garda were performing these speed checks you would be complaining of wasting garda resources. With the usual cry of shouldn't they be out stopping criminals.


    Some people just want to moan all the time!


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    KindOfIrish wrote: »
    Isle of Man is a tax heaven. I can guaranty that the "foreign company" is set up by Irish to avoid Irish taxes.

    So what because of their legal status in the UK they are allowed apply for EU wide tenders. What would you like the Irish government to do ignore EU rules?


  • #35
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭737max


    I pass a speed camera on a road everyday which is mounted on a metal structure in a location where it is not easily accessible for maintenance so it obviously needs nearly no maintenance. It flashes regularly for speeding motorists for the many years I've been using this road. The speeding tickets are processed in the local council.
    That speeding camera has been doing the job of reducing speed on that road for many long years with minimal ongoing costs beyond the initial cost of installation.
    fixed speed cameras are not expensive.

    Mobile Speed camera vans are not needed and the money spent on them could be better spent on a network of fixed speed cameras.


  • #36
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,038 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    what connected person owns this company?


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  • #37
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭737max


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=68934541&postcount=233


  • #38
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    grahambo wrote: »
    All fair points

    I didn't realise they had 80 employees and 50 vans

    Wage Bill alone at €45k per yeah would be €300,000 per month, double that for facilities and IT equipment and your at about €600,000 per month.
    Add another 50k per month to service the 50 vans and your at €650,000
    I'd guess that GoSafe are making between €200,000 - €400,000 per month Pretax* Profit

    Still a fair whack in fairness

    * No tax in IOM, right?

    Did you include PRSI, pension payments, cost of replacement workers if someone out sick, servicing and depreciation of vans and equipment? All of which the Gardaould also have to fund if doing the job. I'd imagine their profit is slim enough and probably goes to fund headquarters etc.


  • #39
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭737max


    A rent-seeker doesn't care about incidental costs. If they wish to extract an ongoing income of 200k or 200million they don't care how much it costs someone else in pursuit of their goal of extracting their "rent".
    In the same way as a car radio thief doesn't care about the cost of replacement of the dashboard after crowbarring out the head unit to sell down the pub for 20 quid a rent seeker doesn't care the cost to society of their activities as long as they receive their 200k per month or whatever.


  • #40
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,906 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    RobbieTheRobber wrote: »
    Bullshít. :rolleyes:
    If Garda were performing these speed checks you would be complaining of wasting garda resources. With the usual cry of shouldn't they be out stopping criminals.Some people just want to moan all the time!

    The Garda do perform this role at the moment with there own vans. No problem with it at all. In fact no problem with the point of the operation or service they GoSafe are doing. I have zero points on my licence, my problem is with paying 17 million when it could be used as funds within the Garda Traffic Corp to which they already perform this very function. As someone said, AGS should have expanded the vans and hired/moved civilians to monitor the equipment, freeing up Gardaí.


  • #41
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TallGlass wrote: »
    The Garda do perform this role at the moment with there own vans. No problem with it at all. In fact no problem with the point of the operation or service they GoSafe are doing. I have zero points on my licence, my problem is with paying 17 million when it could be used as funds within the Garda Traffic Corp to which they already perform this very function. As someone said, AGS should have expanded the vans and hired/moved civilians to monitor the equipment, freeing up Gardaí.

    You want the current Garda siochana embroiled in scandal after scandal to manage a civilian run service? :eek:


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  • #42
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    737max wrote: »
    I pass a speed camera on a road everyday which is mounted on a metal structure in a location where it is not easily accessible for maintenance so it obviously needs nearly no maintenance. It flashes regularly for speeding motorists for the many years I've been using this road. The speeding tickets are processed in the local council.
    That speeding camera has been doing the job of reducing speed on that road for many long years with minimal ongoing costs beyond the initial cost of installation.
    fixed speed cameras are not expensive.

    Mobile Speed camera vans are not needed and the money spent on them could be better spent on a network of fixed speed cameras.

    What that camera has done is slow people down for about 10 seconds . You, and they, no know that they are free to speed up to it and straight away after it. Its never going to move. You don't have to worry that there will be a camera 100 meters up the road at random times.


  • #43
    sibergoth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 478 ✭✭sibergoth


    how about people just don't fcuking speed !
    i set the cruise control to the speed limit... no more worries.


  • #44
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭737max


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    What that camera has done is slow people down for about 10 seconds . You, and they, no know that they are free to speed up to it and straight away after it. Its never going to move. You don't have to worry that there will be a camera 100 meters up the road at random times.
    They don't. I've observed them for years.


  • #45
    astrofool
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 18,077 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    It is absolutely correct that the speed camera vans do not have an interest in making a profit off catching people, only in reducing accidents.


  • #46
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    737max wrote: »
    They don't. I've observed them for years.

    You must live in a wierd vacuum different from all other fixed camera location's.

    You'd wonder why there's a move away from them at all if they are so good, and cheap.


  • #47
    737max
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭737max


    I live in Germany where the speeding fines vary based on how much in excess of the speed limit you drive.


  • #48
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    OSI wrote: »
    What's the first thing most people do when they see a speed van? Panic and slam on the brakes.
    People are such stupid drivers in this country. Someone will be doing 80kph on a road that has a 100kph limit and still slam on the brakes when they see a speed van, as if the van just has a dislike of moving objects so they try to do as little moving as possible around them. It's utterly ridiculous, the only good thing about it is they basically slow down on a straight bit of road making it easier to overtake them, especially handy if there's a line of cars.
    Chancer3001 wrote: »
    Just a point on where vans are located.

    Afaik they are ONLY allowed be placed (in the general area) where there has been a road death in the past.
    Really? There have been deaths on the road they use near me but nowhere near the place they park up.
    737max wrote: »
    I don't have problems with speed cameras as I don't generally exceed speed limits.
    I do, so I'm perfectly happy with things the way they are, speed vans always park in the same spot so they're easy to account for.

    If we put more monitoring on our roads the drivers that are currently too afraid of their car to do the speed limit will just go even slower.

    There's no measure other than better driver training that I'll accept as anything other than a bandaid to appease the baying masses.


  • #49
    todders
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 219 ✭✭todders


    Chancer3001 wrote: »
    Just making the point it's a foreign company. Not an Irish one that's making millions off us

    Wot??? A foreign company. Comin' in here, takin our jobs and catchin' us speedin'!

    ..But seriously, your issue is this isn't outsourced to an Irish company?

    I think you are missing the point


  • #50
    Yourself isit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,256 ✭✭✭Yourself isit


    todders wrote: »
    Wot??? A foreign company. Comin' in here, takin our jobs and catchin' us speedin'!

    ..But seriously, your issue is this isn't outsourced to an Irish company?

    I think you are missing the point

    It's a fairly good point. And it wasn't his only point. The cost seems excessive. How much maintenance could they cost to justify those prices?


  • #51
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    It's a fairly good point. And it wasn't his only point. The cost seems excessive. How much maintenance could they cost to justify those prices?
    Just calibrating those cameras to a standard probably cost thousands all on it's own.


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  • #52
    Dravokivich
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Music Moderators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 22,424 CMod ✭✭✭✭Dravokivich


    Yourself isit wrote: »
    It's a fairly good point. And it wasn't his only point. The cost seems excessive. How much maintenance could they cost to justify those prices?

    They still need an incentive to operate the service.


  • #53
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,571 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    ScumLord wrote: »
    Really? There have been deaths on the road they use near me but nowhere near the place they park up.

    I think the idea was to focus on dangerous or potentially dangerous stretches of road, but of course it must also be safe to place a speed van there.
    The way everything is so by the book these days...imagine a speed van was causing a crash by being in a stupid spot. The outrage, the lawsuit.

    On a more general note, maybe the vans are not required to generate a profit? Maybe its good enough for the vans to be cheaper than AGS for the job? And of course they're freeing up Garda resources.


  • #54
    theoneeyedman
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,928 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    astrofool wrote: »
    It is absolutely correct that the speed camera vans do not have an interest in making a profit off catching people, only in reducing accidents.

    The speed camera company has absolutely no interest in anything other than making money for the speed van company.

    There is often an assumption that privatisation makes services more cost effective. It's often not the case, and this is another example, similar to bins, water, hospitals, banks, M50 tolls etc.

    This is simply another sweetheart deal for the private company,and a way for the authorities to wash their hands of their obligation to provide a service.


  • #55
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Shurimgreat wrote: »
    Did you include PRSI, pension payments, cost of replacement workers if someone out sick, servicing and depreciation of vans and equipment? All of which the Gardaould also have to fund if doing the job. I'd imagine their profit is slim enough and probably goes to fund headquarters etc.

    €600,000 per month would well cover 80 employees, facilities tax obligations and pension etc, note 45k was a very generous guesstimate. A bit of googling reveals it's between €21k and €30k (€10.05 per hour for a driver). I doubt very much they've a decent pension plan. Some of the guys that used to work for GoSafe actually post on here.

    €50,000 per month would maintain a fleet of 50 Vans that wouldn't put up huge mileage. Bare in mind, they are stopped most of the time.

    They are head quartered in Kerry right?
    Can't imagine commercial property rental is expensive down there.

    Having done more research into it their profits are probably higher.

    In any case, this is old news, It was announced that the 5 year schema/deal was €65,000,000 back in 2009! (They've nearly completed their 2nd contract at this stage)
    So people shouldn't be getting annoyed about this, It's info that's been out there for Years!!! Some a**ehole journalist has decided to swirl up some sh*t that sunk to the bottom of the lake years ago!

    More bal**x from the Press!
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/65m-deal-signed-for-speed-check-cameras-1.775721

    If they genuinely want the speeding problem* solved then they should install average speed cameras on the roads the care about and be done with it.


  • #56
    Shenshen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,453 ✭✭✭Shenshen


    ScumLord wrote: »
    People are such stupid drivers in this country. Someone will be doing 80kph on a road that has a 100kph limit and still slam on the brakes when they see a speed van, as if the van just has a dislike of moving objects so they try to do as little moving as possible around them. It's utterly ridiculous, the only good thing about it is they basically slow down on a straight bit of road making it easier to overtake them, especially handy if there's a line of cars.

    I do suspect that's because most people have no idea about the speed limit of the road they're driving on at any given time. So they try and play it safe, just in case.


  • #57
    ScumLord
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,787 ✭✭✭✭ScumLord


    theoneeyedman wrote: »
    There is often an assumption that privatisation makes services more cost effective. It's often not the case, and this is another example, similar to bins, water, hospitals, banks, M50 tolls etc.
    They do make everything more cost effective, but they take the savings (for shareholders) and only pass it onto the customers and clients when they're forced to by competitors matching price. It doesn't benefit the customer in anyway, only makes things worse as we end up with crappier products and services and no alternative because they've all dropped the bar to compete at the lower end.


  • #58
    Beta Ray Bill
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,010 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    ScumLord wrote: »
    They do make everything more cost effective, but they take the savings (for shareholders) and only pass it onto the customers and clients when they're forced to by competitors matching price. It doesn't benefit the customer in anyway, only makes things worse as we end up with crappier products and services and no alternative because they've all dropped the bar to compete at the lower end.

    That's the key issue with privatisation.
    You must have competition, otherwise it's a monopoly.

    It's very hard to have competition in the private sector for things like Speed Camera Van's I'm not sure how it would be done.
    There are some things that cannot be privatised, I think this is one of them (Unless someone has a good idea on how to do it!)


  • #59
    Chancer3001
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,480 ✭✭✭Chancer3001


    if everybody on the road drove the speed limit there would still be speed vans.

    Theyd just cost even more because theyd be getting no fines into the economy.

    My original point was the outrageous cost. The fact the company is "foreign" in my point is that they dont pay tax on their huge profits back to our economy.

    We've created a massive black hole in our economy with this awful contract.

    Some poster claimed it was old news, it isn't. It's a new report thats only been released under freedom of information act this week.
    All parties involved objected to it being released....I wonder why!


  • #60
    Shurimgreat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,133 ✭✭✭Shurimgreat


    I think what sounds like a bigger waste of money is the 500 million contract for the Canadian Company in charge of mapping our shorelines for the rescue helicopters. The fact they missed blackrock lighthouse in belmullet is scandalous, despite being warned repeatedly about it.

    I don't think the speed van contract is particularly excessive in comparison and so far they seem to be competent enough.


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  • #61
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    grahambo wrote: »
    That's the key issue with privatisation.
    You must have competition, otherwise it's a monopoly.

    It's very hard to have competition in the private sector for things like Speed Camera Van's I'm not sure how it would be done.
    There are some things that cannot be privatised, I think this is one of them (Unless someone has a good idea on how to do it!)

    This isn't an industry that you privatise then gets to charge the customer what they like. Being a monopoly isn't an issue . The government puts the contract to tender and companies come in for it. That's your competition. The companies can't decide to up the cost of a speeding ticket for the motorist.


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