Home heating automation

29-06-2017 4:36pm #1

Just starting to look into this now though probably wont be purchasing for a while unless a bargain pops up.

I know there are a number of options out there for this but many like the Nest for example appear to be mostly based around running automatically depending on temp etc or learning your usage.

What I want to know is which one is best to use like a traditional timer? I'd want to set a schedule for heating and water to come on and off and also boost it if I felt like it. Learning my usage or using the thermostat to turn on/off the heating is not something I would really use.

I do want to be able to boost the heat and water remotely so the place is warm before arriving home and have a nice interface for setting timers using an app as we change around our water and heating timing quite often and its a pain having to do this using the poor user interfaces and controls on a traditional heating timer.

I'm assuming they can all be used in this way but I wonder if any device in particular is more geared towards this type of usage?

THE ALM · 29-06-2017 5:27pm

Can't speak for the Nest but the Hive will do what you want as long as your current setup is compatible.

Had the Hive installed several months ago and happy with it so far after a few teething problems, these where related to the addition of hive bulbs to the system which has since been ironed out.

Can set you schedule online, using the app or using the thermostat. Can boost heating or hot water independently and how long you want the boost to run. Once the set temperature is reached the heating will knock itself off.

Thermostat is wireless so can be placed anywhere, one of the reasons we went with it as we didn't have a one at the time.

Bord Gais are the official installers in Ireland although it can be purchased online elsewhere.

niallb · 29-06-2017 5:58pm

I got a Z-Wave compatible thermostat and single channel switch for about €120.
You might need more than one channel on your switch depending on how your zoning is set up.
I've it connected to a google calendar using openhab2 on a raspberry pi so I can change the temperature set point at any time of the day or night from anywhere. The advantage is that people can still change the setpoint using the dial on the room thermostat if desired.

Sounds like the Hive is doing all that for @THE ALM, though I do like being able to extend the system.
It would be simple enough for example to get it to turn on the heating when my phone pairs with the bluetooth in my car after a cutoff point in the afternoon on the assumption I'm heading home.

Openhab works with the Echo dot as well, so I can just say "Turn on the heating" and the boiler fires in about 10 seconds.
Finally, I have an app on my phone which allows to read current temperature, switch the heating on and off and change the thermostat as well as a web interface to the same thing.

I got a similar unit for my parents, but it has a 7 day wireless thermostat/timer on it with a big readout instead of a basic thermometer.
It cost about €50 more and supports about half a dozen temperature changes over each of seven days.

We have bedrooms upstairs and downstairs, and different schedules, so devices that try to work out when you "go to work" and "come home" weren't the place I wanted to start and traditional zoning doesn't work so well either.

Metric Tensor · 30-06-2017 7:56am

Any chance of a link to the ones you got niallb?

They sound exactly like what I'm looking for - both yours and your parents. Hoping to set mine up with Home Assistant via Z Wave.

30-06-2017 2:47pm

Yes I forgot to add its two zones (upstairs and downstairs) and seperate water heating also so 3 zones from the timers perspective. There are thermostats already in the two zones. Really a solution that would just be a straight swap for the current timer device similar to this but a slightly older model: https://www.google.ie/search?q=channel+plus+xl+model+h37&rlz=1CDGOYI_enIE619IE619&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivsn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiBn6a02eXUAhWlBcAKHfxNACsQ_AUICSgB&biw=375&bih=591#imgrc=X8WpTgAx_LULDM:

To be honest if it is a lot of work I might just leave it as we won't be staying in this house long term but it would really suit our usage not to be limited to the current setup.

niallb · 03-07-2017 9:07pm

I'd replied to this earlier, but it looks like boards ate the post.
I've also PM'd a link to Metric Tensor because a couple of times I've posted links on boards,
they've been removed and I've been accused of advertising.

Three zones is probably best drawn out on paper before you decide how to switch it - there's lots of options.
The Wish3 from http://www.mi-genie.co.uk/ looks like it might be a good swap for that controller,
and you can always replace the original controller when you leave.

I'm just using a single channel switch to start the boiler, and considering the options of remotely settable TRV valves on individual radiators to "zone" them. This is necessary for us because we have bedrooms both upstairs and downstairs, so running pipe to define different zones is impractical. I'll probably put electric valves on the immersion tank at some point, and switch out the single channel switch I have at the moment for a double. I haven't seen a 3 channel z-wave switch as a single unit.

I used Home Assistant first time around, though I've switched to openHAB2 since.
A new release of that has just arrived which supports IKEA TradFri bulbs,
so I'll hopefully upgrade that in about 10 days when I get some time.

My only difficulty with originally pairing everything up was that things had to be done in a very particular order.
I didn't want my raspberry pi being the "Master" of the switch - I wanted the thermostat to do that so it would continue to work independently if anything went askew on the pi. We can still use the dial in the kitchen, and it updates the dashboard on the pi too.

What I've ended up with is the ability to trigger the on/off switch (instant) and change the heating setpoint (5-15 minutes).
There's a setting on the thermostat which varies the polling interval by changing the heating type. The fastest is Electric, then Gas, then Oil.
I'm using the Electric setting even though we've kerosene because it was easier when I was scripting it.

After the initial messing around with pairing, it's been flawless.

Metric Tensor · 04-07-2017 1:10pm

Excellent post with great detail. Thanks niallb

And if you find the magic zwave three zone switch let me know. I need the same!

dloob · 06-07-2017 12:06am

Tado could do the heating but not the hot water.
The tado thermostats would replace the existing ones and take over the schedule control for those zones.
It has geo fencing on its app so it can turn the heating down when all phones with the app are away from the house.
It doesn't do any fancy learning of schedules or motion sensing like nest.

Netatmo would be similar to tado, replacing existing thermostats, with the same lack of control of hot water.
I don't think it does the geo fencing either, not built in at least, but probably can with IFTTT.

Climote could do what you want.
It would replace the time clock with an app controllable one, leaves the thermostats alone.
But their subscription model puts me off, 45 euro a year for remote access.

bk · 06-07-2017 12:50pm

dloob wrote: »

Netatmo would be similar to tado, replacing existing thermostats, with the same lack of control of hot water.
I don't think it does the geo fencing either, not built in at least, but probably can with IFTTT.

Just FYI, Netatmo definitely has geofencing built into the app. I have one myself.

ted1 · 06-07-2017 2:23pm

Why do you think a learning thermostat won't work for you?

You can still set schedules like an old thermostat.

NEST has geo fencing and can also tell when the house is empty

Stoner · 07-07-2017 1:46am

Metric Tensor wrote:

And if you find the magic zwave three zone switch let me know. I need the same!

Why not give the 4 channel Sonoff wifi unit a quick look

niallb · 07-07-2017 12:55pm

Stoner wrote: »

Why not give the 4 channel Sonoff wifi unit a quick look

Nice one @Stoner.
The max power load seems to be 10A, so for heating purposes including an immersion this might be limited, but at that price I can see myself getting one for my valves. And at less than US$15, there will be no import duty.
Seems to work with OpenHAB2 and Homeassistant also, though might need a firmware change.

GryKyo · 25-07-2017 10:25am

Stoner wrote: »

Why not give the 4 channel Sonoff wifi unit a quick look

niallb wrote: »

Nice one @Stoner.
The max power load seems to be 10A, so for heating purposes including an immersion this might be limited, but at that price I can see myself getting one for my valves. And at less than US$15, there will be no import duty.
Seems to work with OpenHAB2 and Homeassistant also, though might need a firmware change.

@Stoner and niallb: will be aware of some of the home automation I have mentioned on a couple of other threads. Automation of home heating with some zone control is a job I had thought about and the Sonoff 4 channel pro is a good fit for this. As I understand many zone control valves are driven one direction and return once power is removed so easy enough to control using the relays.

To throw a curve ball in to the game, Honeywell have a system called Evohome that is just so logical that I want to have a play with it. The way that this works is by individually controlling each radiator valve and your hot water coil both thermostatically and via a smart schedule. This is the best compromise to my mind with power efficiency and convenience maxed out this way. It gets better as no plumbing is required if you have old school mechanical thermostat rad valves already, the WiFi controlled radiator valve cap unit is compatible with standard radiator valves with a 30mm thread (trusting my memory here!). In stock format there is a touch screen tablet which can be wall mounted with all the bells and whistles built in, including an app to remotely control your heating. Using individual valves on the devices permits really tidy zone controlling with the schedule or a manual override or thermostat rules raising a "call for heat" signal to the boiler which would automatically command the circulation pump. This way you can kick the hot water on a few mins before the bedroom rads on occupied rooms only, then the kitchen etc for regular winter mornings. Evenings just as flexible where the heat follows the people around the house on a predictable enough pattern, we are creatures of habit!

The system that would work for me lists at about stg£500 - 600 with a controller, hot water and 6 rad valves. This is a bit sore for some experimentation but as a robust and sensible system I would think this has to be a whole lot better than a single thermostat control in a hallway as was traditional in domestic heating systems for the average non tech, no hacks, standard Irish family home.

What I really want to see is somebody hacking into the valve controls so that we can all read and command these devices using our home automation systems. It is the time of year where I forget about heating so I haven't done a lot of reading recently but this would be the heating system control of choice for me!

Just a few more ideas for you, what do you think?

Garry

theluke79 · 27-07-2017 6:57am

Hi everybody,
we're finally buying our first house

So I am looking at options to get as much automation as possible together with a good CH/HW system in place.

I currently have a NEST(in the house we are renting).

I plan to install a combi boiler for instant HW, combined with something like EvoHome to have zoning without needing to re run all pipes.

Do you know if EvoHome deals with combi boilers?

It has to be simple and maintenance free.

bk · 27-07-2017 9:22am

theluke79 Evohome will work fine with a combi-boilers

As you will have instant hot water, you DO NOT need the hot water kit for Evohome. Basically hot water won't be controlled by Evohome at al, it is controlled on demand by the boiler.

They do however recommend installing an Automatic Bypass Valve

https://theevohomeshop.co.uk/content/8-what-honeywell-evohome-products-do-i-need

BTW I've a combi-boiler myself, absolutely love it, would never go back to a crappy cylinder! I use mine with Netatmo, they are supposed to release TVR's too, but haven't yet.

dec2000 · 22-08-2017 11:25am

@OP what did you go for in the end? I was about to post something very similar to you - have 3 zones (downstairs / upstairs and hot water)
I’ve an oil burner and not really interested in self learning systems. Ideally just want to be able to set schedules, override with boost and have the ability to remotely turn on heating if required.
Climote out of the box looks to tick all the boxes but like you, don’t fancy paying an annual charge to use the functionality. Was looking at the Nest and Hive but really open to any open that can cope with the three zones. Was also considering self install but looking at HIVE material, it then says they only recommend it if you’re upgrading from an older version of HIVE.
Be interested to hear what you settled with

theluke79 · 01-09-2017 9:34am

dec2000 wrote: »

@Nash Whining Hammock what did you go for in the end? I was about to post something very similar to you - have 3 zones (downstairs / upstairs and hot water)

Hiya, still waiting for the bank to release the loan offer.... I will start thinking about it more seriously when I'll know for sure the loan is approved.

The guy that came to survey the property said that it was not worth to put any "fancy" heating systems in the house, just take it as it is....

I understand the fact that it makes to nese to get the starship enterprise, but I do want a "normal" system without the useless complexity of immersion , remebering when I want hot water, when I do not need it.... bla bla...

The Valliant systems or the Honeywell look interesting, I will ask to quote them and keep ye posted

TitianGerm · 01-09-2017 12:15pm

Would anyone advise the best option for me?

Three zone unit, upstairs, downstairs and hot water. All units can be heated using oil central heating or a stove with a back boiler. There is also an immersion and solar panels for hot water.

House is a B1 rated and in the three years we've lived there we've used €500 worth of oil. Herself wants to start using the oil more to take the chill out of downstairs in the morning during the winter though so considering a "smart" option now.

Dardania · 01-09-2017 1:43pm

theluke79 wrote: »

dec2000 wrote: »

@Nash Whining Hammock what did you go for in the end? I was about to post something very similar to you - have 3 zones (downstairs / upstairs and hot water)

Hiya, still waiting for the bank to release the loan offer.... I will start thinking about it more seriously when I'll know for sure the loan is approved.

The guy that came to survey the property said that it was not worth to put any "fancy" heating systems in the house, just take it as it is....

I understand the fact that it makes to nese to get the starship enterprise, but I do want a "normal" system without the useless complexity of immersion , remebering when I want hot water, when I do not need it.... bla bla...

The Valliant systems or the Honeywell look interesting, I will ask to quote them and keep ye posted

Typically surveyors aren't paying the bills or living in the comfort of the house...however one can overpay for funtionality

paulbok · 01-09-2017 8:24pm

emmetkenny wrote: »

Would anyone advise the best option for me?

Three zone unit, upstairs, downstairs and hot water. All units can be heated using oil central heating or a stove with a back boiler. There is also an immersion and solar panels for hot water.

House is a B1 rated and in the three years we've lived there we've used €500 worth of oil. Herself wants to start using the oil more to take the chill out of downstairs in the morning during the winter though so considering a "smart" option now.

€500 over 3 years isn't bad, can't see smart control bring it down anything, esp if you are trying to justify the expense.

One thing I've found with a secondary heating source, is that if say the stove has the water piping, and one of the smart controlled rads ( using evohome) calls for heat, the boiler tends to fire up instead of just using the stove heated water. I've left 3 rads in the hallway uncontrolled as a sink for excess heat from the stove.

TitianGerm · 01-09-2017 9:43pm

paulbok wrote: »

€500 over 3 years isn't bad, can't see smart control bring it down anything, esp if you are trying to justify the expense.

One thing I've found with a secondary heating source, is that if say the stove has the water piping, and one of the smart controlled rads ( using evohome) calls for heat, the boiler tends to fire up instead of just using the stove heated water. I've left 3 rads in the hallway uncontrolled as a sink for excess heat from the stove.

It's not to do with saving money or to justify the expense it's the timer box installed is a pain to use and herself can't use it at all.

oinkely · 05-09-2017 3:23pm

emmetkenny wrote: »

Would anyone advise the best option for me?

Three zone unit, upstairs, downstairs and hot water. All units can be heated using oil central heating or a stove with a back boiler. There is also an immersion and solar panels for hot water.

House is a B1 rated and in the three years we've lived there we've used €500 worth of oil. Herself wants to start using the oil more to take the chill out of downstairs in the morning during the winter though so considering a "smart" option now.

Similar system here without the solar. Stove with backboiler and oil also. Had a 3 channel timer, replaced with Hive now. We never use the immersion for hot water in summer, just the oil - and having remote turn on has proved very handy over the summer. Very easy to use and much more intuitive than the previous controller (an EPH one). No 'smart' features such as learning routines etc, but i didn't want that. Really just wanted an easier to program unit with remote turn on. Hive has done all that for £148 (amazon prime sale).

SemperFidelis · 06-09-2017 2:03pm

@oinkley

Was it easy to replace the EPH with Hive, did you need to change the back plate?

Am leaning in this direction myself the Hive looks like the best option for Irish heating systems with a cylinder.

J.pilkington · 08-09-2017 2:51pm

Heads up on the hive; I ordered a hive from Amazon 12mths ago and had to return as it can only be activated in Ireland through bord gais who will only do so if you buy from them.

Metric Tensor · 08-09-2017 5:20pm

Wow. Very poor form!

John mac · 08-09-2017 6:39pm

emmetkenny wrote: »

Would anyone advise the best option for me?

Herself wants to start using the oil more to take the chill out of downstairs in the morning during the winter though so considering a "smart" option now.

what about thermostatic rad valves ,

TitianGerm · 08-09-2017 6:45pm

John mac wrote: »

what about thermostatic rad valves ,

Like these?

http://www.bestheating.ie/salus-liquid-filled-white-thermostatic-radiator-valve-and-lockshield-valve-pack-ie.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw_8jNBRB-EiwA96Yp1kzzPqzCEuYSiTzWzrKTOEfwymBHdarKOv7GnNBMWLrKNLnsdjg_mBoC3msQAvD_BwE

John mac · 08-09-2017 6:52pm

yup
i put these in a couple of years ago
,
have them on all the radiators in the house .

TitianGerm · 08-09-2017 6:56pm

John mac wrote: »

yup
i put these in a couple of years ago
,
have them on all the radiators in the house .

I have those on all my radiators.

I was looking at the Smart Heating as a simpler option to set timers and turn on the heating if we've been out for the day so the house is warm when we get back.

THE ALM · 09-09-2017 3:25pm

J.pilkington wrote: »

Heads up on the hive; I ordered a hive from Amazon 12mths ago and had to return as it can only be activated in Ireland through bord gais who will only do so if you buy from them.

Got mine on Amazon as well and when originally setting it up I used the brothers address in London then emailed support to say they had the wrong address and could they change it, which they did straight away. Maybe they are getting a bit more strict on it which will be difficult as you can walk into harvey norman or maplins and pick it up.

09-09-2017 11:24pm

dec2000 wrote: »

@Nash Whining Hammock what did you go for in the end? I was about to post something very similar to you - have 3 zones (downstairs / upstairs and hot water)
I’ve an oil burner and not really interested in self learning systems. Ideally just want to be able to set schedules, override with boost and have the ability to remotely turn on heating if required.
Climote out of the box looks to tick all the boxes but like you, don’t fancy paying an annual charge to use the functionality. Was looking at the Nest and Hive but really open to any open that can cope with the three zones. Was also considering self install but looking at HIVE material, it then says they only recommend it if you’re upgrading from an older version of HIVE.
Be interested to hear what you settled with

Sorry only saw your post, I haven't gone for anything yet. Had been away with work/holidays a lot over the summer so didn't have time to really think about it yet.

paulbok · 10-09-2017 6:35pm

emmetkenny wrote: »

I have those on all my radiators.

I was looking at the Smart Heating as a simpler option to set timers and turn on the heating if we've been out for the day so the house is warm when we get back.

Have a read through the evohome and lightweight rf thread on here, they both have wireless rad controllers that will screw onto your valves. A bit pricey, looking at approx €60 a rad, plus your controller and a hot water kit but bulk deals are available on Amazon.
Might be more control than you want though.

Dr.Winston O'Boogie · 22-09-2017 7:28pm

Anyone purchased the Netatmo radiator valves? considering getting them, just wanted to know how easy they are to install?

Irish Gunner · 22-09-2017 8:08pm

Dr.Winston O'Boogie wrote: »

Anyone purchased the Netatmo radiator valves? considering getting them, just wanted to know how easy they are to install?

I purchased 3 not installed yet as valves are manual so first suggestions are to make sure that you have thermostat valves and seems easy to install if you have these.

Not downloaded the app yet. Hopefully plumber will install soon and I can post an update

Dr.Winston O'Boogie · 22-09-2017 11:03pm

Irish Gunner wrote: »

I purchased 3 not installed yet as valves are manual so first suggestions are to make sure that you have thermostat valves and seems easy to install if you have these.

Not downloaded the app yet. Hopefully plumber will install soon and I can post an update

Cheers, what do you mean by manual valves? I'm thinking ones you have to turn yourself to turn on the radiator?

If so, a plumber can change them so?

Irish Gunner · 23-09-2017 6:32am

Dr.Winston O'Boogie wrote: »

Cheers, what do you mean by manual valves? I'm thinking ones you have to turn yourself to turn on the radiator?

If so, a plumber can change them so?

Thermostatic valves are valves with numbers on them and manual don't in simple terms. Before buying check out below

https://check.netatmo.com/en/thermostat/question/wifi

I have manual valves and yes plumber can replace them but I am currently trying to find compatibile valve bodies to work with them.
As only new plumber never seen them before. Also look at the forum for some faq etc

https://forum.netatmo.com/viewforum.php?f=73&sid=3eecdf7f75602b66063be0dc739bf2bd

I'm going to plumber supply store in finglas and bringing valves to see what will fit. No price from plumber yet but I don't expect it to be cheap as may get rads cleaned out in preparation for the winter

deezell · 25-09-2017 1:04pm

The Tado system can control the boiler/ heating, and hot water using the tado extension box. The Tado thermostat will control the home temperature generally, if you have seperate plumbed zones an additional thermostat can be added to control these, and you can have individual room zone control by using tado TRVs which are visible to the Tado controller and can call the boiler for heat. Existing timers and zone switches can be dispensed with but it's easier to just switch them to heating on constant, retaining the hot water control, and let the tado schedules control the boiler times and heating pump. The app works really well, with variable time blocks, variable temperature per block, selectable geo fencing per block, editable ' away' response (set temperature, frost protection or Smart managed), and so on. It also has the ability to connect to digital controlled boilers as well as just volt free on/off relay, so modulated or variable output boilers are fully controllable. I've just installed the thermostat, my 2 zone controller remains, controlling just the hot water and hands the heating over to the tado by setting it to constant. TRVs can be added later, and it can all be controlled by Amazon echo if you have one.

dball · 25-09-2017 1:25pm

deezell wrote: »

The Tado system can control the boiler/ heating, and hot water using the tado extension box. The Tado thermostat will control the home temperature generally, if you have seperate plumbed zones an additional thermostat can be added to control these, and you can have individual room zone control by using tado TRVs which are visible to the Tado controller and can call the boiler for heat. Existing timers and zone switches can be dispensed with but it's easier to just switch them to heating on constant, retaining the hot water control, and let the tado schedules control the boiler times and heating pump. The app works really well, with variable time blocks, variable temperature per block, selectable geo fencing per block, editable ' away' response (set temperature, frost protection or Smart managed), and so on. It also has the ability to connect to digital controlled boilers as well as just volt free on/off relay, so modulated or variable output boilers are fully controllable. I've just installed the thermostat, my 2 zone controller remains, controlling just the hot water and hands the heating over to the tado by setting it to constant. TRVs can be added later, and it can all be controlled by Amazon echo if you have one.

Where did you purchase - did you purchase outright or sign up for the monthly scheme?

Thanks

deezell · 25-09-2017 1:49pm

dball wrote: »

Where did you purchase - did you purchase outright or sign up for the monthly scheme?

Thanks

Purchased. Move quick, there's a few v2 kits left on Amazon or Maplin UK, a steal for £99. You'll need to use parcel motel as they're not delivered to ROI. V2 identical to V3 except for Apple home kit integration.

deezell · 25-09-2017 2:23pm

Hmm, gone up to £129 on Amazon from Maplin webdeals, £99 from Maplin UK but only available for pickup at store and they have none in Belfast. Maplin Ireland has Used B stock for €119, probably returns. I got 2 while sterling was 91p/€. Still good value at €119 used if you get the full warranty

Colm R · 04-10-2017 2:59pm

Hi all

I'm wondering if you could help/confirm something for me. I've thinking about getting smarter thermostats for a while now, but want to have the swap out of my existing as easy/hassle free as possible.

I have two of these thermostats in my house controlling two zones:
http://www.myson.co.uk/static_files/my/media/downloads/MRTE_instructions.pdf

Basic enough model, but the main thing about them is they use high voltage, as oppose to the low voltage that stats like Nest use.

I also have a master time clock for each zone, and for the water. This is it:
http://www.ephcontrols.com/product/t37-zone/

I think its pretty obvious what happens, but anyway, for the boiler to fire (and a motorized valve for a zone to open):

1. At least one of the time clock zones must be on.

2. And the thermostat associated to that zone must be calling for heat.

So ultimately I'd like to simply replace the thermostats (probably just one to begin with) myself. But it seems that I cannot get Tado or Nest, as both are low voltage, and my wiring is high voltage.

Its this thread that sent me to Netamo. It seems from my limited electrical knowledge, that Netamo would work fine if I replaced my existing thermostat. I emailed them, and they said it would, but I would like to double check here.

Obviously if I do get it, I'll simply replace the thermostat, but keep the timeclock, and simply switch it to on all the time for the zone associated to that thermostat.

Thoughts?

Any other thermostats to suit my wiring.

And out of interest, what rewiring would be involved if I switched to a low voltage thermostat?

Cheers
-C

deezell · 04-10-2017 3:28pm

Colm R wrote: »

Hi all

I'm wondering if you could help/confirm something for me. I've thinking about getting smarter thermostats for a while now, but want to have the swap out of my existing as easy/hassle free as possible.

I have two of these thermostats in my house......

1. At least one of the time clock zones must be on.

2. And the thermostat associated to that zone must be calling for heat.

So ultimately I'd like to simply replace the thermostats (probably just one to begin with) myself. But it seems that I cannot get Tado or Nest, as both are low voltage, and my wiring is high voltage.....

Cheers
-C

The Nest stat is low voltage but the control box that comes with it and links to it has relay contacts for switching the high voltage pair serving your current stat. This box would be located next to your timers, switching the two wires currently fed to your stat. The Nest will communicate wirelessly with the box but you can reuse the redundant wires to your old stat to carry the low voltage power and digital control signals from the box to the nest, assuming you want to mount it on the same spot as the old stat. Other wise the nest connects wirelessly and is kept powered by a phone type charger.
The Tado stat has volt free relay contacts, so it is just a straight swap for your existing stat. As the tado stat programmes timers as well as temperature, you just set that zone on your EPH controller to always on, and let the tado timer blocks do the job. The Tado has unlimited time blocks as well as variable temperature per block, plus away from home settings per block. A cinch to install, no control box needed unless you want the tado to control the hot water timing. Better to leave that to the EPH device. Tado starter Kit v2 currently only £79 B stock used from Maplin UK, delivered here using parcel motel. Full new warranty, a steal compared to the price new for a nest or a tado v3 which just has extra Apple home Kit functionality, they're identical otherwise.

Colm R · 04-10-2017 4:31pm

deezell wrote: »

The Tado stat has volt free relay contacts, so it is just a straight swap for your existing stat.

Thanks for your reply. But just on this, can you explain what you mean by volt free contacts. I already contacted Tado, and they said that its not compatible with my existing wiring.

deezell · 04-10-2017 4:45pm

Volt free means contacts on a relay isolated from any other electrical part of the stat. The Tado thermostat has these, marked common C and normally open NO. These are used to safely close the circuit to the boiler and pump when calling for heat. There are just these 2 wires to your current stat. Read this generic Tado installation PDF.
https://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.partscenter.co.uk/wcsstore7.00.00.817/ExtendedSitesCatalogAssetStore/images/products/AssetPush/DTP_AssetPushHighRes/std.lang.all/ti/on/Tado_Installation.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwicqc2-p9fWAhXlIMAKHTOrAFcQFgg4MAA&usg=AOvVaw0AFXdvxeJAnj6_ZdpzFhOq

deezell · 04-10-2017 5:09pm

This is the relevant page

dec2000 · 09-10-2017 10:23pm

deezell wrote: »

This is the relevant page

Hi deezell,

Thanks for putting up the link to tado on Maplin. I wasn't considering it but after reviewing today, am pretty impressed.

Couple of questions though if you know the answer:
- to control the hot water I need the extension kit, am I right in saying this?
- my current timer is 2 channel + hot water. Am I right in saying the extension is only hot water and 1channel? If so, how do I connect the second channel?
- I opened up my thermostats today and they are marked as live and neutral, how goes that map to the COM and NO per the instruction manual?

deezell · 09-10-2017 11:17pm

dec2000 wrote: »

Hi deezell,

Thanks for putting up the link to tado on Maplin. I wasn't considering it but after reviewing today, am pretty impressed.

Couple of questions though if you know the answer:
- to control the hot water I need the extension kit, am I right in saying this?
- my current timer is 2 channel + hot water. Am I right in saying the extension is only hot water and 1channel? If so, how do I connect the second channel?
- I opened up my thermostats today and they are marked as live and neutral, how goes that map to the COM and NO per the instruction manual?

Last question first, it doesn't matter as you are just breaking the circuit when desired temperature is reached, if your thermostats are exactly the ones you posted first, then the two wires should be going to the terminals on them marked COM and NO. How many wires altogether into each stat? There should just two, with the stat itself powered by battery.

Regarding the zones, you have two options. Youu'll need at least a tado thermostat for each zone, with the hw controlled by the EPH. If you want to get the extension box, you can discard the EPH or leave it there with all 3 zones on permanently. The wiring then is HW circuit through the extension kit with cylinder stat wired in, a bit more involved than just swapping the zone stat. One of the zone's thermostat's circuit will be wired into the extension box, with the tado stat for that zone wirelessly connected to the extension box. The second zone stat is just replaced by an additional tado stat wired in its place. Your shopping list will be one tado thermostat kit ( stat and router bridge), one additional stat, which costs as much as the bargain kits so you could by two kits and use just one bridge. Finally, the extension box if you really must control HW with the tado. The simplest install is just replace one or both stats with tado stats wired in their place, both stats registered to the bridge that comes with the kit, and the EPH controller with two zones set to Permanently on and the HW timed via the EPH. There's no need to be turning on and off the HW remotely, it's on a timer and cylinder stat, which turns it off as and when. Post some pics of your current stat wiring, I'm slightly concerned about your mention of Live and Neutral terminals, it doesn't tie in with the internals of the stat brochure you posted first.

deezell · 09-10-2017 11:25pm

Just looking at the Myson stat brochure you sent again, the three terminals in the unit have no markings in the photo, but the diagram on the brochure clearly labels them as NO, C , and NC , left to right. If this is your stat then you just wire NO on the old stat, left connector, to NO on the Tado, and C in the middle to Com on the Tado.

dec2000 · 09-10-2017 11:30pm

Hi deezell, just to confirm I'm a different poster to the earlier one Coln_R made. Thanks for the prompt response... Totally get your point on the HW, it's really just a luxury more than anything else if herself decided she wanted a bath later that evening and we were out, could boost it remotely, but not critical, could just start with the thermostat.

On the stats, attached two pictures, first is the wiring, second is the label of the wiring.

deezell · 09-10-2017 11:46pm

dec2000 wrote: »

Hi deezell, just to confirm I'm a different poster to the earlier one Coln_R made. Thanks for the prompt response... Totally get your point on the HW, it's really just a luxury more than anything else if herself decided she wanted a bath later that evening and we were out, could boost it remotely, but not critical, could just start with the thermostat.

On the stats, attached two pictures, first is the wiring, second is the label of the wiring.

Apologies, I never looked at the name. Your stats are ideal for replacement by the tado, two wires, it doesn't matter which wire goes to which as you're not using the NC terminal on the Tado but for form Live is equal to Com and load goes to NO. Start with a kit and one Tado stat. Keep the timer for HW. There's very little cost or savings in keeping a hot water cylinder hot/cold, unless it's badly insulated. If you only turn it on for baths, how do you keep it hot enough for normal HW. Setting the timer to tiny increments hardly saves you anything. Best setup is a cylinder stat about half to 2/3 down the cylinder set for about 60 -65, proper foam covered cylinder and a generous time allowance early morning an pre evening. The water you heat and don't use will stay hot for well into the next day, reducing the amount of heat required to bring it up to the cylinder stat temperature.

dec2000 · 10-10-2017 7:58am

deezell wrote: »

Apologies, I never looked at the name. Your stats are ideal for replacement by the tado, two wires, it doesn't matter which wire goes to which as you're not using the NC terminal on the Tado but for form Live is equal to Com and load goes to NO. Start with a kit and one Tado stat. Keep the timer for HW. There's very little cost or savings in keeping a hot water cylinder hot/cold, unless it's badly insulated. If you only turn it on for baths, how do you keep it hot enough for normal HW. Setting the timer to tiny increments hardly saves you anything. Best setup is a cylinder stat about half to 2/3 down the cylinder set for about 60 -65, proper foam covered cylinder and a generous time allowance early morning an pre evening. The water you heat and don't use will stay hot for well into the next day, reducing the amount of heat required to bring it up to the cylinder stat temperature.

Thanks for the advice deezell. We set the hot water on a timer for washing etc. Generally every two days in the morning and boost it if baths are required. Totally get your thinking though.

So last question, if I was to buy the used stock in Maplin does anyone know if there would be any problems linking an account considering it's probably already previously been done or should I drop tado a quick message on it?

Home heating automation

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