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Apple Athenry data centre

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    #32
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    nuac wrote: »
    There should be some limit on ability of objectors to hold up such projects

    I see the issue being the slowness of the process. It's fair enough for people to object but objections should be reviewed and handled much quicker.


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    #33
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,560 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    the whole year inn wrote: »
    Not as if apple are going to run out of data centers,surely this will go ahead, just a matter of time.
    The commencement of the GDPR in May 2018 means it's an order of magnitude more difficult for EU citizens data to be hosted outside the EU/EEA. Add to this the complete level of uncertainty as to where data centres in the UK will stand post Brexit, there's a scramble to build or lease data centre capacity within Member States.
    nuac wrote: »
    Not just the extremely "rare" bog cotton ( which is common ) but also because some pylons for the proposed extra bridge would have been built into the limestone pavement.

    The limestone pavement in that part of the West stretches from north Clare, under Galway Bay, portion of Co Galway and north into Mayo. Plenty of space for a few pylons.

    There should be some limit on ability of objectors to hold up such projects
    The Aarhus Convention has created a new cottage legal industry in this country. You're never going to get stung for the other sides costs as long as you can demonstrate an environmental angle, no matter what its merits or how many times the exact same question has been answered.

    There's a far grubbier side to it as well but that's another story for another day.
    J o e wrote: »
    I see the issue being the slowness of the process. It's fair enough for people to object but objections should be reviewed and handled much quicker.
    The judicial review list in the High Court has ground to a halt and this particular case is a victim of that.


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    #34
    weshtawake
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭weshtawake


    Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs that the judicial review cannot be expedited for such an important, landmark development.
    Where are the local/national/ex-Taoiseach politicians?? If it was proposed for Kilgarvan, Kerry you bet your ass it would be built by now.


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    #35
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    weshtawake wrote: »
    Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs that the judicial review cannot be expedited for such an important, landmark development.
    Where are the local/national/ex-Taoiseach politicians?? If it was proposed for Kilgarvan, Kerry you bet your ass it would be built by now.



    dp


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    #36
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    weshtawake wrote: »
    Absolutely ridiculous state of affairs that the judicial review cannot be expedited for such an important, landmark development.
    Where are the local/national/ex-Taoiseach politicians?? If it was proposed for Kilgarvan, Kerry you bet your ass it would be built by now.



    About 1986 the Superior Court Rules relating to Judicial Reviews were somewhat simplified. JRs have become increasingly common

    Some of the legislation needs review.

    I,e in the Galway by-pass saga there was evidence the pylons for the proposed bridge would have minimal effect on the limestone pavement. However the Courts considered that the legislation as enacted did not all ANY, even the most minimal interference with the limestone pavement.

    And then we had the whooper swans blocking the extension of the N5 to Ballina....................

    More judges fit to deal with these issues are needed. Anybody told Lord Ross?


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    nuac wrote: »
    Not just the extremely "rare" bog cotton ( which is common ) but also because some pylons for the proposed extra bridge would have been built into the limestone pavement.

    The limestone pavement in that part of the West stretches from north Clare, under Galway Bay, portion of Co Galway and north into Mayo. Plenty of space for a few pylons.

    There should be some limit on ability of objectors to hold up such projects

    The bog cotton which thwarted the original bypass route is Eriophorum gracile, Slender Bog-cotton; this is extremely rare in Britain and Ireland


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    #38
    TerrorFirmer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 29,930 ✭✭✭✭TerrorFirmer


    Vice did a brilliant piece on this last month - great read for anyone.

    One man in a tiny Irish town could derail Apple’s plans for Europe


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    #39
    billbond4
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭billbond4


    Very good article.
    Apple getting all the benefits paid for by the Irish Taxpayer of a large investment in Electrical Supply and they give back a 100 odd jobs.
    Sure why wouldnt they want to build the Data Center here ??


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    #40
    Raging_Ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Raging_Ninja


    billbond4 wrote: »
    Very good article.
    Apple getting all the benefits paid for by the Irish Taxpayer of a large investment in Electrical Supply and they give back a 100 odd jobs.
    Sure why wouldnt they want to build the Data Center here ??

    You do understand that the more big companies set up things like this, the more attractive we look to other companies, right? That means more jobs and more investment in infrastructure which benefits everyone.


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    #41
    nuac
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,769 Mod ✭✭✭✭nuac


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The bog cotton which thwarted the original bypass route is Eriophorum gracile, Slender Bog-cotton; this is extremely rare in Britain and Ireland

    Is it not the same bog cotton that is visible in Connemara and West Mayo

    If not just how rare is it?

    Can it be preserved where its presence would not strangle the growth of traffic about Galway city?


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    #42
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    nuac wrote: »
    Is it not the same bog cotton that is visible in Connemara and West Mayo

    If not just how rare is it?

    Can it be preserved where its presence would not strangle the growth of traffic about Galway city?

    There are four species of Bog-cotton/Cotton-grass/Eriophorum in Ireland. Two are very common, E. angustifolium and E. vaginatum - these are the ones you see everywhere, particularly out west. E. latifolium is less common, but not rare. E. gracile is so rare it is included on the Flora Protection Order schedule of plants; these receive the highest level of legislative protection under the Wildlife Acts. I'm not sure of all distribution records; its known from Roundstone bog, and two sites around Galway City, almost all other sites have been lost.
    Protecting plants is a very knotty problem; it cant really be done without protecting the habitat, and this plants habitat requirements are clearly very particular.


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    #43
    billbond4
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭billbond4


    Raging_Ninja wrote: »
    You do understand that the more big companies set up things like this, the more attractive we look to other companies, right? That means more jobs and more investment in infrastructure which benefits everyone.

    It makes Ireland more attractive for similar type of data center companies, you dont need to necessarily have your companies R&D in the same country where you have its data centre.
    Data Centres only provide a few jobs for the return on national investment in updating the electrical infrastructure.
    It would be fine if we were more like Denmark and having excess "Green" electrical supply but we dont, were just subsidising apples green image and the taxpayer is left footing the bill.
    Anyway Apple are probably leveraging the existing jobs in Cork to get the data centre here


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    #44
    Raging_Ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Raging_Ninja


    billbond4 wrote: »
    It makes Ireland more attractive for similar type of data center companies, you dont need to necessarily have your companies R&D in the same country where you have its data centre.
    Data Centres only provide a few jobs for the return on national investment in updating the electrical infrastructure.
    It would be fine if we were more like Denmark and having excess "Green" electrical supply but we dont, were just subsidising apples green image and the taxpayer is left footing the bill.
    Anyway Apple are probably leveraging the existing jobs in Cork to get the data centre here

    Really? You think having a pretty large construction job help up in the courts for how long now only means that companies with datacentres will be disinclined to build here?


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    #45
    billbond4
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭billbond4


    If our government had invested in renewable energy and we had plenty to sell, then data centres would be fine, but for the short term we dont have the green energy to sell.
    As it stands the taxpayer would be the looser of large datacenters built here.


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    #46
    Raging_Ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 1,717 ✭✭✭Raging_Ninja


    billbond4 wrote: »
    If our government had invested in renewable energy and we had plenty to sell, then data centres would be fine, but for the short term we dont have the green energy to sell.
    As it stands the taxpayer would be the looser of large datacenters built here.

    Does it really matter which comes first? If we always waited until all the prereqs were in place then nothing would get done. Oftentimes the urge to change something doesn't become apparent until you need it and there is a public appetite for it. Infrastructure won't be built out until we need it, and if datacentres like this aren't built then we aren't going to get the electric and communications upgrades we need.

    Besides, again, you are missing the big picture. Do you really think a multinational would look at the needless delays apparent in the building of this project and say to themselves "gee, Ireland looks like a great place to build a new X factory with 1000 jobs that we need to meet demand in 2 years", or do you think they will gtfo somewhere else?


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    #47
    billbond4
    Registered Users Posts: 2,403 ✭✭✭billbond4


    The Big Picture is that we dont have enough excess renewable energy for large scale data centres and Irelands growing population, so where is all this electricity going to come from?..
    Its not only the transmission network for electricity that needs an upgrade its the source of electricity that needs to be planned for.
    We have enough bandwidth for the communications as they are privately funded.


    Its not a factory thats going to employ 1000s of people,its just a warehouse that is being built that at most a 100 odd people are going to be employed, with little add on benefit for locals.


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    #48
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    That 100 figure (however accurate it is) will drop like a stone in years to come as the running of these is automated to a high level.

    Eventually, you will have 8 data centers, drawing massive amounts of power from the grid, employing 4-5 security guards


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    #49
    theteal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,593 ✭✭✭theteal


    As a network engineer for a global company, I semi-regularly visit our massive data centre which is shared with other very prominent companies. I might cross the paths of 3-4 security guards on any of my visits - that's it, not another soul based there (I'd see some engineers from some of the other companies but like me, they'd just be visiting). I can't fathom how large this one will be to require 150 staff.

    I would be fully backing Mr. Daly's objection. Mr. McDonagh can go and jump.


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    #50
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,979 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    According to this article, decision not until July 27th.
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/second-danish-centre-for-apple-with-galway-facility-on-hold-1.3149472?mode=amp


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    #51
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    It's interesting that the appetite for this proposed Apple project is pretty restrained in Galway and indeed there are a lot of posters questioning the benefit/cost ratio. It shows how far we've come as a country.

    25 years back, this proposal would meet with not just universal approval but a grovelling to Apple worthy of a sycophant.


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    #52
    gordongekko
    Registered Users Posts: 5,301 ✭✭✭gordongekko


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    It's interesting that the appetite for this proposed Apple project is pretty restrained in Galway and indeed there are a lot of posters questioning the benefit/cost ratio. It shows how far we've come as a country.

    25 years back, this proposal would meet with not just universal approval but a grovelling to Apple worthy of a sycophant.

    The vast majority of people appear to be in favour of the development


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    #53
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    The vast majority are simply enamoured with the prospect of being able to say "Apple have a major facility here" without realising that once it's up and running it'll prevent further industries, which would employ a lot more, from coming here as the electrical grid would require a massive upgrade to extend capacity.

    Very few really understand how truly bad this will be for the region if it goes ahead.


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    #54
    Storm 10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,905 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The vast majority are simply enamoured with the prospect of being able to say "Apple have a major facility here" without realising that once it's up and running it'll prevent further industries, which would employ a lot more, from coming here as the electrical grid would require a massive upgrade to extend capacity.

    Very few really understand how truly bad this will be for the region if it goes ahead.

    And how do you know more companies will be coming to Athenry with jobs, I'm sure the majority will be delighted if it goes ahead and it will put Athenry on the map for more to come there


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    #55
    connemara man
    Moderators, Sports Moderators, Regional West Moderators Posts: 6,773 Mod ✭✭✭✭connemara man


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The vast majority are simply enamoured with the prospect of being able to say "Apple have a major facility here" without realising that once it's up and running it'll prevent further industries, which would employ a lot more, from coming here as the electrical grid would require a massive upgrade to extend capacity.

    Very few really understand how truly bad this will be for the region if it goes ahead.

    Just to play devils advocate on this but wouldn't that upgrade to the electric grid be needed at some point for those companies even without apple in Athenry.


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    #56
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Storm 10 wrote: »

    And how do you know more companies will be coming to Athenry with jobs, I'm sure the majority will be delighted if it goes ahead and it will put Athenry on the map for more to come there

    The local area plan for Athenry has designated a large area just off the motorway as an industrial area. This is where others would be based.

    As for putting Athenry on the map, sorry to burst your bubble, but a data centre is the equivalent of a warehouse in the tech sector.

    Don't take my word for it, do some research of your own instead of just carrying a torch for Apple because they make a popular phone


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    #57
    Outkast_IRE
    Registered Users Posts: 7,515 ✭✭✭Outkast_IRE


    Decision pushed back until October.

    Regardless of this particular project, what sort of a message does this send to the international community, that a project can be delayed for so long for no reason. How the judgement has been delayed so long is beyond me.

    Apple will probably cancel the project and push on with a second one in denmark rather than wait on this decision.


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    #58
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,384 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    You can count on one hand the amount of places that decide to set up outside the city, here we had one that was going to and the moaners come out of the woodwork to object.

    It's probably townies on this thread as well that don't want to see it go ahead.


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    #59
    the whole year inn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,086 ✭✭✭the whole year inn


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    You can count on one hand the amount of places that decide to set up outside the city, here we had one that was going to and the moaners come out of the woodwork to object.

    It's probably townies on this thread as well that don't want to see it go ahead.

    The so called moaners have a genuine concern, whats wrong with sticking to Apple, at least let them do what they done in Denmark.


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    #60
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,639 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Ireland has - or it should have - moved on from trying to get any sort of investment and any sort of development at any cost, be it environmental, economic, traffic etc. It's not 1991 any more.

    We need to be attracting high value enterprises that provide high paying jobs and that give back to the local community, not some huge warehouse that will employ 4 people and swallow up power supply.


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    #61
    the whole year inn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,086 ✭✭✭the whole year inn


    JupiterKid wrote: »
    Ireland has - or it should have - moved on from trying to get any sort of investment and any sort of development at any cost, be it environmental, economic, traffic etc. It's not 1991 any more.

    We need to be attracting high value enterprises that provide high paying jobs and that give back to the local community, not some huge warehouse that will employ 4 people and swallow up power supply.

    Yea that's it exactly, it's very attractive to come here,we should be setting the bar alot higher, only our self's to blame.


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