Mens Rights Thread

ancapailldorcha · 21-07-2017 03:42PM

Wibbs wrote: »

I thought it amusing that in the same week that the BBC was lauded for making Doctor Who a woman cos virtuous equality(#sobrave), they've shown that where it counts on the bottom line they pay women less. Brilliant. Not exactly atypical of such an apparently hypocritical entity.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't touch this sort of topic with a bargepole but the BBC have been putting out a weird amount of "Girl power" pieces as of late. Here's one example:

The modern female knight.

iptba · 21-07-2017 11:21PM

Sleepy wrote: »

He only does one show a week and for a limited run every year though? A lot of those being paid more would do longer / more shows and for longer runs?

He also does a three-hour radio program each week:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00tw2b9

abbir · 22-07-2017 11:06PM

Yourself isit wrote: »

Norton seemed underpaid. Relatively.

His show isn't included in his pay.

but they cover only his work on Radio 2, Eurovision and the BBC One Saturday night show Let It Shine.

His main entertainment programme, The Graham Norton Show, is made by his own production company, So Television, and the money he earns from that is not covered in the BBC report.

iptba · 23-07-2017 05:33PM

Universities face lesson on gender equality
Justine McCarthy
July 23 2017, 12:01am,
The Sunday Times

Mary Mitchell O’Connor, the minister for higher education, is to set up a taskforce to examine the possibility of imposing gender quotas in universities after the Higher Education Authority (HEA) found just 21% of professors were female.

“The latest data regarding the gender gap in our third-level institutions confirms we have a gender problem in this sector,” said Mitchell O’Connor, a former primary school principal. “If we don’t decide to act now, we will be reading the same results next year, and the year after that.

“With this in mind, I am announcing the establishment of a taskforce to examine any and all potential solutions to this issue.”

She said the taskforce would comprise representatives of third-level education, and “one of its central objectives will…

Continues behind a pay wall at:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-face-lesson-on-gender-equality-dhvlh6mpx

It continues:

She said the task force would comprise representatives of third-level education, and "one of its central objectives will be to examine the potential input plantation of gender quotas across all areas within the sector". The Dun Laroghaire TD is personally in favour of gender quotas.

iptba · 23-07-2017 05:45PM

I thought this was interesting, from the front page of the Sunday Times

Alimony fear over "women's place"

A leading lawyer has said that the removal of the "woman's place in the home" clause from the Irish constitution could affect maintenance payments in family law cases.

[..]

Sharon said: "a dependent spouse fares better in Ireland than in virtually any other jurisdiction in the world, and that's due to this lifelong obligation. It is a safety net or a protective mechanism for the spouse who acts as a homemaker.

Even if this is true, it should be possible to have a gender neutral wording e.g. on the potential value if one spouse stays at home, if that was desired.

KrustyUCC · 24-07-2017 12:32PM

iptba wrote: »

Continues behind a pay wall at:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/universities-face-lesson-on-gender-equality-dhvlh6mpx

It continues:

Great more quotas

I wonder will the minister for Education be suggesting gender quotas (male teachers) for primary school teachers?

Doubtful

Calhoun · 24-07-2017 12:36PM

Also Mrs Piggy has to be seen to be doing something, she was not a very good or popular minister and needs to regain some political capital before the inevitable next election.

Knowing that we are coming to an election in the next year i would be making sure elected representatives know how you feel.

Annasopra · 24-07-2017 01:03PM

iptba wrote: »

if this is true, it should be possible to have a gender neutral wording e.g. on the potential value if one spouse stays at home, if that was desired.

I think thats a good idea

iptba · 08-09-2017 04:21PM

A big gender imbalance in what trends on Twitter in Ireland continues. Here are some more I have spotted:

#INWED17
Celebrate International Women in Engineering Day

#whdw17
Women's History in a Digital World

#BBCpaygap

#GenderPayGap

#planetwoman

#revolutionarywomen

#GirlsInSTEM

#womenonboard

#ICTUWomen17

#womankind2017

iptba · 08-09-2017 04:24PM

Breakthrough for men’s health: WHO and experts kick off development of strategy and report

08-09-2017

Åsa Nihlen

For the first time, WHO is undertaking a strategy entirely focused on the health and well-being of men and boys. A group of experts from a range of fields and disciplines related to men’s health came together on 5 September 2017 at UN City in Copenhagen, Denmark, to launch the development of the strategy for the WHO European Region.

The strategy will be supported by a report reviewing the evidence on topics such as addressing premature mortality, the intersection between masculinities and existing inequalities, health systems responses to men throughout the life-course, and the role of men in promoting gender equality in health. The report will provide a framework to guide and inform the development of country-specific policy responses to improve men’s health.

Continues at:
http://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/health-determinants/gender/news/news/2017/09/breakthrough-for-mens-health-who-and-experts-kick-off-development-of-strategy-and-report

El_Duderino 09 · 09-09-2017 06:55PM

iptba wrote: »

A big gender imbalance in what trends on Twitter in Ireland continues. Here are some more I have spotted:

#INWED17
Celebrate International Women in Engineering Day

#whdw17
Women's History in a Digital World

#BBCpaygap

#GenderPayGap

#planetwoman

#revolutionarywomen

#GirlsInSTEM

#womenonboard

#ICTUWomen17

#womankind2017

Is this brought up in the men's rights forum to demonstrate how effective the feminists are at publicising relevant issues compared to the their the men's equivalent?

iptba · 09-09-2017 07:22PM

Many feminists say there is no need for men's rights activism, that feminism works on all the issues.

Lists such as this highlight that there are lots of issues relating to women being highlighted, not so much issues relating to men.

El_Duderino 09 · 09-09-2017 07:51PM

Wowser's trousers. You're right batman. Imagine if mens rights supporters cared as much about men's issues as feminists care about feminist issues... then there might be men's issues trending on twitter too. Imagine...

But, back to bitching about feminists.

py2006 · 09-09-2017 07:53PM

You really are a piece of work!

iptba · 09-09-2017 08:03PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Imagine if mens rights supporters cared as much about men's issues as feminists care about feminist issues... then there might be men's issues trending on twitter too. Imagine...

There are a lot more feminists than men's rights activists. Feminist groups also have more money, are better established, etc.

Men's rights activists have to spend a bit of time justifying the need for such a movement. Supposedly feminism is all that is required according to some and sometimes suggest men's rights activists should be shunned/shamed/similar which could decrease the numbers involved and willingness to be active. Though, when pressed, feminists sometimes then say it's not feminism's responsibility to deal with men's issues.

Perhaps what I/we should be learning is spending time replying to you may not be the best way for me or others to use our time/energy.

Middle Man · 09-09-2017 10:13PM

iptba wrote: »

There are a lot more feminists than men's rights activists. Feminist groups also have more money, are better established, etc.

Men's rights activists have to spend a bit of time justifying the need for such a movement. Supposedly feminism is all that is required according to some and sometimes suggest men's rights activists should be shunned/shamed/similar which could decrease the numbers involved and willingness to be active. Though, when pressed, feminists sometimes then say it's not feminism's responsibility to deal with men's issues.

Perhaps what I/we should be learning is spending time replying to you may not be the best way for me or others to use our time/energy.

I think you're right regarding the silencing of fledgling movements that oppose mainstream ideologies which are often promoted in the first place by singular interest groups that I term "The Megaphone Mob'!. However, silencing is only practiced against those who are perceived as a threat to recently established mainstream ideologies such as 'Masculinity is Bad!', 'Cars are Bad!', 'Co2 is bad!' etc. etc. etc. Efforts are certainly being made to silence anyone promoting the rights of men or motorists, but such practices will only have a lasting effect because anyone who tries to silence others obviously has something to hide. The Co2 issue is a case in point - yet, Co2 levels are actually quite low (according to Greenpeace founder) while very serious issues such as deforestation and the honey bee cull is hardly aired on traditional media channels. Then there is plastic pollution - really serious problem that has only very recently become mainstream. Getting back to the main point, the hypocrisy and double standards of 'The Megaphone Mob' is being gradually uncovered - You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time!!!

El_Duderino 09 · 09-09-2017 11:24PM

iptba wrote: »

There are a lot more feminists than men's rights activists. Feminist groups also have more money, are better established, etc.

Men's rights activists have to spend a bit of time justifying the need for such a movement. Supposedly feminism is all that is required according to some and sometimes suggest men's rights activists should be shunned/shamed/similar which could decrease the numbers involved and willingness to be active. Though, when pressed, feminists sometimes then say it's not feminism's responsibility to deal with men's issues.

Perhaps what I/we should be learning is spending time replying to you may not be the best way for me or others to use our time/energy.

I know, whining about feminists is great. If only it was as useful as it is fun. Why does this keep coming up in the men's rights thread?

Seriously though, instead of whining about the feminists and how successfully they use twitter , why not just promote issues of interest to men. It's a novel approach, I know. But it might be useful - well useful for promoting men's issues as opposed to whining about feminism.

Why on earth is it so controversial to suggest promoting men's issues in the men's rights thread?

El_Duderino 09 · 09-09-2017 11:48PM

Middle Man wrote: »

I think you're right regarding the silencing of fledgling movements that oppose mainstream ideologies which are often promoted in the first place by singular interest groups that I term "The Megaphone Mob'!. However, silencing is only practiced against those who are perceived as a threat to recently established mainstream ideologies such as 'Masculinity is Bad!', 'Cars are Bad!', 'Co2 is bad!' etc. etc. etc. Efforts are certainly being made to silence anyone promoting the rights of men or motorists, but such practices will only have a lasting effect because anyone who tries to silence others obviously has something to hide. The Co2 issue is a case in point - yet, Co2 levels are actually quite low (according to Greenpeace founder) while very serious issues such as deforestation and the honey bee cull is hardly aired on traditional media channels. Then there is plastic pollution - really serious problem that has only very recently become mainstream. Getting back to the main point, the hypocrisy and double standards of 'The Megaphone Mob' is being gradually uncovered - You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time!!!

Posted in s thread called "men's rights thread". An entire post about how you can't post anything about men's rights - and something about motoring and co2. Seriously, this is the place to promote Issues relevant to men's rights. Use it as you want.

Middle Man · 09-09-2017 11:56PM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Posted in s thread called "men's rights thread". An entire post about how you can't post anything about men's rights - and something about motoring and co2. Seriously, this is the place to promote Issues relevant to men's rights. Use it as you want.

You didn't get the main point of my post did you?

I was talking about how the 'Megaphone Mob' silences anybody who goes against any of their ideologies - that is what's currently happening to MRAs. I was using other such ideologies well known to give a better overall picture of the common tactics employed and how they can be exposed.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-09-2017 12:20AM

Middle Man wrote: »

You didn't get the main point of my post did you?

I was talking about how the 'Megaphone Mob' silences anybody who goes against any of their ideologies - that is what's currently happening to MRAs. I was using other such ideologies well known to give a better overall picture of the common tactics employed and how they can be exposed.

Sure sure, The megaphone mob. But this is a thread where you can talk about men's issues. You can use it for whining about how how you can't raise men's issues, but that would be way too ironic.

silverharp · 10-09-2017 08:57AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Sure sure, The megaphone mob. But this is a thread where you can talk about men's issues. You can use it for whining about how how you can't raise men's issues, but that would be way too ironic.

you cant help yourself can you

mzungu · 10-09-2017 10:22AM

Middle Man wrote: »

You didn't get the main point of my post did you?

I was talking about how the 'Megaphone Mob' silences anybody who goes against any of their ideologies - that is what's currently happening to MRAs. I was using other such ideologies well known to give a better overall picture of the common tactics employed and how they can be exposed.

In Ireland or in the US? Local groups like Mens Sheds have gained exposure on RTE 1 shows like Nationwide, and I believe there was a couple of news reports about them too. In general, I think the lack of exposure comes down to the fact that most groups don't want any kind of media exposure because that is not their reason for existing. For example, one could say the lads who do the 5-a-side kick around in the Pheonix Park on a Sunday are a mens group. Same with the GAA clubs. We could call these mens groups, but they have no inclination to go political. I don't know anything any localised mens clubs or spaces in this country, as it wouldn't be my thing, but from what I do know they seem to operate quite freely. A google search shows that a few are active around the country and nobody seems to be getting in their way.

As for the MRA (and associated groupings), well that is more an international thing and would have little to do with us here. What I will say is that they appear to have done very little in the four decades prior to do anything positive. I would also go as far as to say they have stifled any chance progress and are their own worst enemies in that regard.

iptba wrote:

A big gender imbalance in what trends on Twitter in Ireland continues. Here are some more I have spotted:

#INWED17
Celebrate International Women in Engineering Day

#whdw17
Women's History in a Digital World

#BBCpaygap

#GenderPayGap

#planetwoman

#revolutionarywomen

#GirlsInSTEM

#womenonboard

#ICTUWomen17

#womankind2017

TBH I don't see any problem with the above. There is nothing stopping some mans issue to start trending, the fact is that those issues posted above are more popular at the moment. But there are no problems there, that is simply reflecting what is popular at the moment and it certainly would not constitute a "gender imbalance".

Pat Mustard · 10-09-2017 10:31AM

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I know, whining about feminists is great. If only it was as useful as it is fun. Why does this keep coming up in the men's rights thread?

Seriously though, instead of whining about the feminists and how successfully they use twitter , why not just promote issues of interest to men. It's a novel approach, I know. But it might be useful - well useful for promoting men's issues as opposed to whining about feminism.

Why on earth is it so controversial to suggest promoting men's issues in the men's rights thread?

I agree with you that talking about mens' rights is useful here.

However, the 'whining about feminists' comments are not terribly helpful. If people want to criticize feminism as a movement which impinges adversely upon mens' rights, then it's not necessarily unreasonable to do so in this thread.

It is understood that this is the thread about mens' rights: the clue is in the name.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-09-2017 11:42AM

mzungu wrote:

In Ireland or in the US? Local groups like Mens Sheds have gained exposure on RTE 1 shows like Nationwide, and I believe there was a couple of news reports about them too. In general, I think the lack of exposure comes down to the fact that most groups don't want any kind of media exposure because that is not their reason for existing. For example, one could say the lads who do the 5-a-side kick around in the Pheonix Park on a Sunday are a mens group. Same with the GAA clubs. We could call these mens groups, but they have no inclination to go political. I don't know anything any localised mens clubs or spaces in this country, as it wouldn't be my thing, but from what I do know they seem to operate quite freely. A google search shows that a few are active around the country and nobody seems to be getting in their way.

There's something evocative about the idea of men meeting in a garden shed. It wouldn't be the same if it were 5-a-side or all male sports teams. As you point out, they are already all male groups and they're doing fine.

The implication of the garden shed movement is that these men HAVE to meet in a garden shed because there's nowhere else for them to meet and spend time with other men. It implies that they have to hide away and meet men in secret or privately. If that's the case then they're probably in an abusive relationship and that's the problem and it needs to be dealt with.

These men could equally set up a walking group or a kick around or a board game club. But meeting in a garden shed suggests something else which isn't being discussed.

mzungu wrote:

TBH I don't see any problem with the above. There is nothing stopping some mans issue to start trending, the fact is that those issues posted above are more popular at the moment. But there are no problems there, that is simply reflecting what is popular at the moment and it certainly would not constitute a "gender imbalance".

That's it. This very point keeps being brought up. If it were a post about how Twitter can be used to highlight issues and get a conversation started, that would be fine. But simply showing that women's issues are being talked about as if it was an attack on men and men's rights, is completely missing the point. It imagines that simply giving out about women's issues is the same as doing something for men's issues

py2006 · 10-09-2017 12:36PM

Guys, apparently all we do is whinge, moan and bitch on this and another thread.

If only we can be left here alone to do it...

Zulu · 10-09-2017 01:57PM

Doctrine provides: the infidels must be silenced.

iptba · 10-09-2017 02:18PM

mzungu wrote: »

it certainly would not constitute a "gender imbalance".

None are about men so there is by definition a "gender imbalance".

El_Duderino 09 · 10-09-2017 02:24PM

Zulu wrote:

Doctrine provides: the infidels must be silenced.

Nobody's being silenced. It's a whole thread dedicated to discussing men's issues which would be really useful. I'm simply highlighting that bitching about women's issues trending on twitter is completely missing the point. If someone wanted to stifle discussion of men's issues, first there would need to be discussion of men's issues.

iptba · 10-09-2017 02:34PM

Were people aware that an Irish trade union, the ICTU, had a 2-day conference/seminar on women's issues. I wasn't. If you put the hashtag into Twitter you can find out more information about it. I find it interesting to be aware of such things. Other people might not.

El_Duderino 09 · 10-09-2017 02:41PM

iptba wrote:

None are about men so there is by definition a "gender imbalance".

Surely the imbalance is in the difference between how many people have interest enough to discuss those issues on twitter. One time you updated the men's issues trending on twitter. Can't you see the difference between highlighting men's issues and complaining that other people are discussing women's issues?

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